ERDNASE

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Richard Hatch
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Richard Hatch » May 17th, 2012, 9:04 pm

Nice first edition copy on eBay:
http://tinyurl.com/7eeg5ux

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Richard Kaufman
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Richard Kaufman » May 17th, 2012, 9:11 pm

Used to have one! Sold it for too little money. :)
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Tom Sawyer
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Tom Sawyer » May 17th, 2012, 9:32 pm

In the future I may post a more detailed post concerning Richard Hatch's post of yesterday on this thread.

As to the provenance of the UNLV book under discussion, I am not venturing a guess. (That book is described by Jeff Busby in The Man Who Was Erdnase. Jeff's description shows (page 332) that it is a (basically) 178-page book with blind-stamping, and with the title (Expert at the Card Table) in black on the front.

The following, taken from something I wrote in Aphelion, November 1993, has some relevance. I was discussing a certain specific copy of a Fleming version of Erdnase, which I had obtained from John Luckman, in Las Vegas, back in the early 1970s or so. I have changed the paragraphing a little:

In reviewing The Man Who Was Erdnase (Whaley, Gardner, and Busby) a couple of years ago, I was interested in Busby's description of a very early copy of The Expert at the Card Table at the University of Nevada at Las Vegas. He mentions that the triangular subtitle has been [largely] cut and scotch-taped back.

Something similar has been done with the title page of my copy under discussion. The words "WITH CRITICAL COMMENTS / BY / PROFESSOR HOFFMANN" have apparently been cut out (by a rectangular cut) and then taped back into place.

I have always thought that this was done in connection with the laying out of the page for photographing. A small slip of paper with the GBC logo and the address BOX 4115 / LAS VEGAS, NEVADA 89106 has been taped onto the title page, on top of the imprint (CHICAGO / THE CHARLES T. POWNER CO. / 1944).

Needless to say, I don't consider this anything like a definitive answer to the questions posed by the book described by Busby. But it does show, I think, why I was not especially surprised by the description of that book.


That seems somewhat relevant to the things being discussed.

--Tom Sawyer

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Tom Sawyer » May 20th, 2012, 8:32 pm

Hi All,

Ill keep this post very short. That means that it is definitely oversimplified and maybe even kind of wrong in places!

It looks to me as though the following list is probably pretty accurate for determining certain aspects of the priorities among various early Drake versions of Erdnase, based on addresses found in Drake advertisements included within the books:

(a) First, books with advertisements showing only the 211-213 East Madison Street address.

(b) Next, books showing both the 211-213 East Madison Street and 350-352 Wabash Avenue addresses.

(c) Next, books showing only the 350-352 Wabash Avenue address.


The following are a few examples of how the foregoing might apply.

1. On page 333 of The Man Who Was Erdnase is a picture of a clothbound Drake version, with the cover showing Expert at the Card Table in script. Jeff Busby indicates that it includes advertisements with the earliest address above. If it shows no other addresses, it belongs in category (a).

2. In my own collection, I have a paper-covered Drake version with 1905 on the title page. It has many interior advertisements showing the 211-213 Madison Street address. The back cover shows the 350-352 Wabash Avenue address. It belongs in category (b)" -- a later category.

3. From the Library of Congress scans (see Brad Jefferss nearby post [March 4] for a link) -- we know that the Houdini 1905 copy had Drake advertisements showing the 350-352 Wabash Avenue address, fifteen or so times. And I believe that no advertisements show any other addresses. It belongs in category (c)" -- a still later category.

The foregoing approach is not necessarily one-hundred-percent reliable. In theory, it is not the most reliable evidence.

The foregoing is based primarily upon the addresses at which Drake was located at various times (or, at least, on addresses that were used). Generally they are as shown in advertisements in periodicals. But above I tossed in a little bit of judgment.

Here is an extract from my Erdnase blog (not currently viewable), augmented by seven other references (marked with an asterisk), that shows some relevant information and references (all findable on Google Books):

May 9, 1903, 352-356 Dearborn Street (The Publishers Weekly)
March 1904, 211 East Madison Street(The Engineering Magazine)
May 1904, 211-213 East Madison Street (The National Builder)
December 1904, 211 Madison Street (The National Builder)
May 1905, 200-211 East Madison Street(Popular Mechanics)
July 1905, 200-211 East Madison Street(The Technical World)
November 1905, 211 East Madison Street(The Railway Conductor)
November 1905, 214 Madison Street (Cosmopolitan Magazine)*
December 1905, 207 East Madison Street (Success Magazine)*
December 1905, 243 East Madison Street (The World To-Day)*
Circa February 10, 1906, 211 East Madison Street (The Int. Dir. of Booksellers)
April 1906, 350-352 Wabash Avenue (The Publishers Weekly)*
September 1906, 349B Wabash Avenue (The Business Philosopher)*
October 1906, 350 Wabash Avenue (Popular Mechanics)
Early 1907, 350-2 Wabash Avenue (The Electric Journal)*
November 1907, 350 Wabash Avenue(The American Thresherman)
December 1907, 350 Wabash Avenue (Popular Mechanics)
July 1908, 350 Wabash Avenue (Popular Mechanics)*


--Tom Sawyer

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby magicam » May 22nd, 2012, 3:14 am

^^^ Tom, great work! Your efforts reflect the kind of bibliographically-related digging that is sometimes necessary. I agree with you that one should not use addresses as a foolproof method of dating a book (for one reason, because the sheets and/or wrappers for a book bearing an old (i.e., out of date) address could be bound at a much later date), but addresses can be very useful in that regard.

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Tom Sawyer » May 22nd, 2012, 3:01 pm

Hi Clay! Very kind of you! Thank you! --Tom

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby John Bodine » May 23rd, 2012, 1:23 am

Hi Tom, thank you for the great information on dates that Drake operated. Many years ago Dick Hatch was kind enough to send me his notes on various printings/variants and I have expanded on it as I try to understand and catalog all of the different versions available to the public.

Below are examples from my collection that support your dating of printings.

Example 1 - Category (a)
Red clothbound, script "Expert at the card table" on the cover and spine
Block F.J. Drake on the spine
1905 and title page has the earlier eagle behind an FDC shield
Allied Printing printing bug on the copyright page
211-213 East Madison Street address on advertisements


Example 2 - Category (a)
Green pictorial cloth
Script "Expert at the card tale" on spine, block F.J. & CO. on spine
Allied printing bug on copyright page
1905 and eagle behind shield on title page
211-213 East Madison Street on advertisements

Example 3 - Category (d)
Grey pictorial cloth
Script "Expert at the card tale" on spine, block Fred.J.Drake. & CO. on spine
No printing bug
1905 and coat of arms style shield on title page
No addresses on any of the advertisements

Example 4 - Caegory (e)
Blue embossed cloth, "Expert at the Card Table" in script on cover and spine
Block letter DRAKE at foot of spine
No dates, no advertisements
Note: these colored non-pictorial cloth copies with script titles also include an embossed cover, this variant and the earlier (dated) red copy have the same embossing pattern and what appears to be the same font on the cover and spine

Example 5 - Category (c)
1905 paperback
350-352 Wabash Ave only on ad on back cover, no address on other advertisements

After these the addresses move to
1004 Michigan Ave
179 N. Michigan Ave

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby John Bodine » May 23rd, 2012, 1:32 am

I should also add that I am aware of 10 different dated 1905 variants (assuming the plum and red are indeed different) and 7 undatd variants circa 1917-1918. Beginning in 1934 still at 179 N. Michigan and until 1937 Drake put the date back on the title page although not on every printing variant.

I forgot to add that the blue embossed described above iona has 178 pages and is therefore likely a later (circa 1918) variant.

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Tom Sawyer » May 23rd, 2012, 1:20 pm

Hi John:

That is an amazing listing! I imagine that a lot of work, time, dedication, and ingenuity was necessary for you to assemble such a grouping.

The list definitely advanced my own knowledge regarding what was going on with Drake and the Erdnase book in those early days.

Here are a few additional fairly early Drake addresses (findable on Google Books). The asterisks indicate information that was not on my Erdnase blog (which is not now viewable):

December 1905, 216 East Madison Street (Popular Mechanics)*
March 1906, 216 East Madison Street (Popular Mechanics)*
April 1906, 216 East Madison Street (Popular Mechanics)*
August 1910, 1323-5 Michigan Avenue(Directory of Booksellers [etc.])
May 1911, 1327 Michigan Avenue (Popular Mechanics)


Drake also used the address 354 Michigan Avenue. I have seen it on Google Books in Drake books dated (on the title page) 1906 and 1908.

--Tom Sawyer

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Tom Sawyer » May 23rd, 2012, 4:12 pm

Hi All,

Concerning the Drake blind-stamped-cover versions (with script title--not the pictorial-cloth Drake versions) of The Expert at the Card Table . . .

I do not know whether it is generally known that that basic cover design or style (blind-stamped, with script title) was also used by Drake on a number of other Drake books, including those listed below, that are of particular interest to magic collectors and gambling collectors. The first copy is not now for sale (I contacted the person who posted the images), and the second copy has been sold:

1. Card-Sharpers, by Robert-Houdin. An eBay seller posted several images on an eBay discussion board back in 2009.

2. Tricks With Coins, by T. Nelson Downs. Here is a link to an image on a bookseller website:

Link to image of "Tricks With Coins"

I think that elsewhere on this thread, it is mentioned that William J. Hilliar was not actually the translator of the Drake Card-Sharpers. (I believe that it is generally reported that that translation was by Joseph Forster.)

Although Drake used the blind-stamped cover (with script title) on a number of books, I don't think I know for certain of a single case of such books where there were not other covers as well. I think that typically there was at least one other basic clothbound version and also at least one other basic paper-cover version for each title, though I have not verified that.

--Tom Sawyer

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Tom Sawyer » May 23rd, 2012, 5:06 pm

Correction: In a recent post, toward the end, I mentioned "354 Michigan Avenue." That was a mistake. I should have mentioned "354 Wabash Avenue," instead.

--Tom Sawyer

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby John Bodine » May 24th, 2012, 2:19 am

October 20, 1920, 1004 Michigan Ave. (Scientific American)
January 1931, 179 N Michigan Ave. (Popular Mechanics)

I didn't do much digging to find the earliest referenced date for these addresses but include them here as I referenced printing variants with these addresses.

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby John Bodine » May 24th, 2012, 2:36 am

I also found a 1903 reference to Drake at 350-352 Wabash in "the complete songster" with copies of "The Expert" priced at $1. This book also includes the same Allied printing bug Found in the earlier copies of Erdnase.

And now my memory tells me Dick Hatch has already done all of this research...

Perhaps a The Genii wiki page would be a good location for all of this consolidated research on Drake, then Frost,, then Powner, etc.

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Richard Evans » May 25th, 2012, 4:05 pm

To what extent do the advertisments in the back of the book help to date the editions? Are the ads always the same in the various editions?

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Richard Hatch » May 25th, 2012, 4:59 pm

Richard, I have found the advertisements in the back, like the address information when given, to be very helpful in dating the various copies. The ads do change and often make reference to dated editions of other books ("new 1904 edition"), or one can track the publication dates of new titles advertised to put a lower bound on the books. The pricing information also helps. Drake consistently advertised the first edition copies (the true first, not the first Drake version) at $1, and initially its own editions at 25 cents and 50 cents for the paperback and cloth bound editions respectively. Eventually Drake priced the paperbacks at 35 cents, but by then I believe they were no longer issuing the book in a cloth bound variant. Hopefully John Bodine will issue an updated checklist of variants with such information.

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Richard Evans » May 25th, 2012, 6:28 pm

Thanks Richard - very interesting

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Bill Mullins » May 27th, 2012, 8:28 pm

The ebay copy just sold for $4500. Too rich for my blood.

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Doug Thornton » May 27th, 2012, 9:39 pm

And the shipping was just $5.35?! Hopefully the buyer got some insurance added...
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby erdnasephile » May 27th, 2012, 10:06 pm

1+ Hopefully, for that price, overnight shipping and insurance would be included.

Tom Sawyer
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Tom Sawyer » June 5th, 2012, 12:49 am

One of the things some researchers have done is to compare S.W. Erdnases writing to texts of known authorship. For example, people have compared Erdnases text to various writings of W.E. Sanders, to see whether similarities or differences are detected.

This post is not anything like a treatment of that topic. But a while back, on my blog about S.W. Erdnase (not now viewable), I showed extracts from a number of works, so that readers who felt so inclined could, for fun, see whether they noticed any similarities or differences among the texts. (I also had some extracts from mining publications, but all of the extracts below deal with playing cards.)

The following is a much simplified version of that. I shortened the extracts. If -- for fun (no prizes or rewards) -- you wish to try your hand, here are the (shortened) extracts.

I dont think this proves much of anything, for a variety of reasons. (Just as one example, the extracts are quite short.) But it might tend to show that it can be difficult to be successful at guessing who wrote what.

It is very easy to search for extracts from the quotations below (on Google Books) and determine the sources. That is not the idea. The idea is to see whether you can guess who wrote each of the extracts. (Of course, if you recognize an extract, all the better.)

Ill probably post the answers (that is, basically, the book titles) on Wednesday. I am neither encouraging nor discouraging people from posting their own results.

Just to be clear, I am not trying to find the sources of the quotations. I already know who wrote them. Uh, I mean, I have it written down.

Again, this exercise is just for fun. There are no prizes or rewards of any kind!

Oh, and FYI, at least one, and at most all ten, are from The Expert at the Card Table.

Extract No. 1

The art of card palming can be brought to a degree of perfection that borders on the wonderful.

Extract No. 2

After the necessary degree of proficiency in the sleights has been acquired, each trick that the beginner intends to perform, must be carefully laid out and clothed, as it were, with a certain speech, technically termed patter, the object of which is to cause the trick itself to assume, in the minds of the spectators, a plausible appearance.

Extract No. 3

This is a capital trick with which to commence an entertainment; when coming, as it should do, unannounced, and before the performance proper has commenced, it has an air of improvisation, which greatly enhances its effect, and at once awakens the attention of the audience.

Extract No. 4

The performer circles the knife over the cards with a slight trembling movement of the hand, and suddenly plunges the knife into a card.

Extract No. 5

With the third finger of the left hand, which is now immediately below the card, press it upwards into the right hand, which should half close over it. You must not mind about bending the card, which will lie curled up against the inside of the hand.

Extract No. 6

Of course, in each instance the performer has noted the bottom card after the cut was made, and before he placed the deck on the table. We have formulated the following rules for determining the card that will be found at the number given, and for ascertaining the number at which any particular card called for will be located.

Extract No. 7

We consider this trick a capital one if performed with some address. Of course the patter is all a matter of taste and any invention may answer. The possibility of getting a perfect view of the table when the eyes are bandaged is never suspected by the uninitiated, but it is a fact well known to conjurers.

Extract No. 8

The performers manner should be suave, but not over polite, a mistake made by most beginners. Over politeness tends to reduce the performer to a level below that of the spectators; whereas, his object is to convey the impression that he is a being gifted with an inexplicable power.

Extract No. 9

A glance at the cards acquaints the performer with the position of the reversed card, and he forces that row on the spectators, taking away the other row.

Extract No. 10

The usual plan is to arrange the whole pack in the order suggested by the following jingle, viz.:

Eight Kings threatened to save
Ninety-five Queens from one sick Knave.

Thus indicating the order of the thirteen values, as Eight, King, Three, Ten, Two, Seven, Nine, Five, Queen, Four, Ace, Six, Jack. The suits are taken in a regular order, say, Diamonds, Clubs, Hearts, Spades.


--Tom Sawyer

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Richard Kaufman
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Richard Kaufman » June 5th, 2012, 1:01 am

Excellent, Tom ... excellent.

C'mon, folks, let's show some brains here.
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby crandash » June 5th, 2012, 4:27 pm

This is so fascinating, all of this work, that everyone has contributed and put together. Has anyone put a timeline together, that I may have missed?

Thank you again for all of this Brillant Work!

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Tom Sawyer » June 6th, 2012, 2:53 pm

Regarding the little "no-prizes challenge" stated in my most recent post on this thread . . .

It seems possible that some people are not posting their "guesses" for fear of spoiling the fun for others.

At this point, I don't think that needs to be a concern.

I'll wait till sometime tomorrow morning (California time), and then I'll post the answers--unless some kind of discussion on the topic gets going here before that.

--Tom Sawyer

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Tom Sawyer » June 7th, 2012, 2:42 pm

Hi All,

Here are the answers:

S.W. Erdnase, The Expert at the Card Table: 1, 2, 6, 7, 10

Professor Hoffmann, Modern Magic: 3, 5

Downs/Hilliard, The Art of Magic: 4, 9

August Roterberg, New Era Card Tricks: 8

--Tom Sawyer

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Richard Kaufman » June 7th, 2012, 3:27 pm

You definitely had me on a few, Tom.
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Tom Sawyer » June 8th, 2012, 12:53 am

Richard, thank you for participating.

I very much appreciated your kind words right after my post that had the ten quotations!

--Tom

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Richard Kaufman » June 8th, 2012, 3:10 am

This one, in particular, is tricky:

"Extract No. 5: With the third finger of the left hand, which is now immediately below the card, press it upwards into the right hand, which should half close over it. You must not mind about bending the card, which will lie curled up against the inside of the hand."

Many excellent thoughts in that sentence!
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby pixsmith » June 8th, 2012, 9:23 am

I was lucky enough to read the blog before it was private, and it was terrific. It's amazing how much really great magical advice was written in all the early literature, and especially in Erdnase. Bob White has mentioned several times that in Erdnase is almost everything you need to know about not just card magic, but about magic as a whole.

Thanks, Tom for the great refresher course. I really enjoyed this!

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby SwanJr » June 8th, 2012, 1:35 pm

I agree with Richard that this one (#5) is especially tricky as the precision with which the writer describes the working of the 3rd finger of the left hand sounds very much like Erdnase.

However the colloquial tone in which Prof. Hoffmann cloaked the imperative of the second sentence just isn't Erdnase "the magisterial".

I guess it's not surprising Hoffmann would sound like Erdnase at times, given the influence ARTIFICE, RUSE had on him and how deeply he immersed himself in THE EXPERT.

--Hurt McDermott

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby David Ben » June 8th, 2012, 1:58 pm

Hurt

I think you have it backwards. Modern Magic was much more of an influence on Erdnase than Erdnase was on Hoffmann. Modern Magic, in particular, was published decades before The Expert.

David

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Tom Sawyer » June 8th, 2012, 2:36 pm

CORRECTION!

Extract 2 is from New Era Card Tricks, by August Roterberg.

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Tom Sawyer » June 11th, 2012, 1:56 am

Hi All,

I am sure that Clay Shevlin knows a lot more about bibliographical terminology and its application than I do, and probably about book-collecting terminology as well. However, I thought I would take a stab at mentioning a few things I think I know with respect to The Expert at the Card Table:

1. From the standpoint of the collector, the "first edition" consists of "the first impression" of the first edition. In other words, normally the "first edition," to the book-collector, is the first printing. In the case of The Expert at the Card Table, that term refers to the edition printed by (apparently) McKinney in (apparently) 1902. I say "apparently," because having your address be in care of McKinney on a copyright form (see Whaley, et al.) doesn't necessarily mean he printed the book. And having the book be released in February or March of 1902 does not necessarily mean that the book was printed in 1902.

2. From the standpoint of the bibliographer, all of the copies of The Expert at the Card Table published by the author, as well as all those published by Drake, are part of the first edition. This includes copies with 178 pages and copies with 190 pages, and in making that determination, it doesn't matter what kinds of advertisements are in them. (Certain other books -- many, in fact -- are also part of that edition.)

3. Some people may disagree on the 178-page and 190-page versions. I think it's probably subjective.

4. The first version released by Drake would be the second "issue."

5. After Drake began creating the Drake versions, various "states" were involved. The various versions with differing numbers of pages would be different states. The varying advertisements represent different states as to the advertisements.

6. The various Drake covers do not represent ipso facto varying editions -- in fact, in the case of The Expert at the Card Table, from a bibliographical standpoint, they do not.

7. Not to complicate matters, but even from a collector's viewpoint, varying covers do not necessarily by themselves indicate much.

8. The varying covers of The Expert at the Card Table do not represent different states.

The reason I say "I think" I know those things is that, well, I am not sure that everything above is accurate. But I thought I would mention the foregoing, in part because, as far as I know, no one else has (publicly) really gotten into the subject of how the different variants of The Expert at the Card Table "should" be classified from (a) a bibliographer's standpoint, or (b) from a collector's standpoint.

Also, above I have just hit a few of the highlights, and I have not gone into any detail. So, yes, even I could probably pick the above apart, if I wanted to.

--Tom Sawyer

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby SwanJr » June 11th, 2012, 10:38 am

David,

You're absolutely right. I was thinking of Hoffmann's commentaries on THE EXPERT and not the work he is mainly known for today. That's the danger of coming at a subject too much from your own field of interest.

Hurt

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Tom Sawyer » June 19th, 2012, 11:19 pm

Below are a few more Frederick J. Drake addresses, compiled from Google Books. Actually, the addresses listed below are all the same, but I went ahead and kept the usual format:

November 1910, 1325 Michigan Avenue (Locom. Firemen and Enginemen's Mag.)
January 1912, 1325 Michigan Avenue (Popular Mechanics)
February 1913, 1325 Michigan Avenue (Telephony)
September 1914, 1325 Michigan Avenue (The Publishers' Weekly)
October 1914, 1325 Michigan Avenue (The Publishers' Weekly)
February 1915, 1325 Michigan Avenue (Electrical World)


--Tom Sawyer

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Richard Hatch » June 20th, 2012, 9:37 am

Another first edition on eBay, starting at just $1,000. The last one listed there sold a few weeks ago for $4,500. And there is a copy in the Potter and Potter auction. Here's a link to the current eBay one: http://www.ebay.com/itm/The-Expert-At-T ... 500wt_1287

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Bill Mullins » June 23rd, 2012, 1:36 pm

How much did the Potter & Potter copy bring?

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Daniel Bain » June 24th, 2012, 7:59 am

First edition Erdnase sold at yesterday's auction for $6,000 ($5,000 plus 20% buyer's premium).

http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/117 ... ble-1st-ed


1905 softcover Drake Edition signed by illustrator Marshall D. Smith sold for $2,880 ($2,400 plus 20% buyer's premium).

http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/117 ... ble-signed

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Athan » June 30th, 2012, 9:26 pm

Hi everyone,
I have to say that this is the most interesting topic on the internet so far.Even though i haven't red the entire topic and i do not know if you have reached to a certain conclusion i would like to express a thought about the mysterious identity of Erdnase.

To begin with i was watching Dai Vernon's Revelations series and i noticed that Dai Vernon mentoned some times the name of a Greek gambler Johnny Rakianakis(?),if i heard it right,and so as a Greek myself i wanted to know more about this guy.I started googling his name but no results came up with this name.Then i tried to google 'greek gamblers' and of course the very first result was the famous Nicholas Dandalos aka Nick The Greek.As i started reading his bio i noticed something interesting(i dont know if somebody has mentioned Nick The Greek before on the topic).

Nicholas Andreas Dandalos which is his full name was born in 1883,and studied and got his degree in philosophy from the Greek Evangelical College.He was sent to USA(and was settled in Chicago) when he was 18 years old(which is around 1901).It is also known that Dandalos moved to Montreal at some point(i dont know the exact time) where he used to gamble on horse races.Dandalos used to win big amounts of money and also lost a lot of money on that races.Dandalos then moved back to Chicago where he lost almost everything on card and dice games.Without a doubt Dandalos was a master at card games and other forms of gambling.

A few things to point out.Dandalos at the time The Expert At The Card Table was written was at Chicago.Dandalos can be also put at Canada which may also explains the Canadian copyright declaration on the book.He had a strong passion for gambling and also won and lost lots of money(which may explain the statement on the book as he needs the money).Dandalos middle name was Andreas which is an anagram of Erdnase(if you change one 'a' to 'e' maybe for making it sound better).Dandalos was from a wealthy family and he had a degree in philosophy which also explains the beautiful writing of the book.We can certainly put a deck of cards in his hands.
BUT! We cant link him to the illustrator of the book.

I certainly cant prove that Nick The Greek was Erdnase but there are many coincidences(as with many of the candidates mentioned before) that one could think that he could be a candidate too.

I am not an expert about Erdnase nor claiming that i have done any sort of research.But the whole mystery around he true identity of S.W.Erdnase is fascinating at least and had me wondering of who that man really was.

Anyway you guys here have done great work so far.

Jonathan Townsend
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Jonathan Townsend » June 30th, 2012, 9:30 pm

Those are interesting findings Athan. Would you post links to your source data for those findings?
Mundus vult decipi -per Caleb Carr's story Killing Time

Athan
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Joined: June 30th, 2012, 8:20 pm

Re: ERDNASE

Postby Athan » June 30th, 2012, 9:51 pm

Jonathan Townsend wrote:Those are interesting findings Athan. Would you post links to your source data for those findings?



As i said i didnt do any in depth research about Dandolos(or if the information i found about him is true).The only thing i did is to google 'greek gamblers', 'Nicholas Dandolos' and 'Nick The Greek'.I found the information i mentioned here:

http://www.hellenism.net/cgi-bin/displa ... html?c=105

but again this is a very brief description of his life without many details.I am sure you could find a lot more about Dandolos than i did.


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