ERDNASE

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Larry Horowitz
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Larry Horowitz » January 7th, 2012, 7:30 pm

Today as I was sitting in the car waiting for the wife, I was leafing thru one of my Erdnase copies. ( I am one of those rare guys that only has 2 copies in the car, plus the electronic version in the phone). I just letting my eyes read whatever I landed on as I leafed the pages. I found some words or phrases that I had not noticed before. They may mean nothing. Or they may spark some thought.

We have often discussed whether the book was written by a gambler or magician. Or whether there were two authors of the two sections.

Throughout the gambling section three words are used to describe the person with the cards; player, dealer, operator. Yet the last line of the section on the Bottom deal reads,
But neither of the manoeuvers is desirable, or necessary to a god PERFORMER (emphasis mine).

Is the last word performer a Freudian slip?

In the section regarding the Erdnase System Of Stock Shuffling, sub-section, Four-Card Stock, we see the following

The highest tribute that can be paid to the method is the fact that certain players we have instructed ..

Whoa!! Erdnase instructed someone in his methods. This implies personal contact and personal transference of knowledge. Somewhere someone was walking around saying oh yeah, Ive known that move for years.

Finally the last little anomaly I noticed, in the section, The Erdnase System Of Cull Shuffling;

Lightning DONT strike in the same place often, and the dealer would naturally feel a little DIFFIDENT about holding the same good cards that were contained in the last hand shown.

The word DONT is the incorrect word. It should be DOESNT. This is clearly a play on the words. A very street wise turn of phrase. Predating boxing promoter Joe Jacobs (1934) I shoulda stood in bed. I dont believe this is a grammatical error. I find it hard to believe the author that uses the word DIFFIDENT in the same sentence would make this error without intent.

Why that turn of phrase, I cant say. But as we have begun of late to dissect and analyze the writing to profile the author maybe these little items that catch my eye mean something..or not.

Tom Sawyer
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Tom Sawyer » January 7th, 2012, 7:41 pm

Richard, thank you! --Tom


Bill Mullins
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Bill Mullins » January 8th, 2012, 11:57 am

Sidney Huttner has indexed the Publisher's Trade List Annual from 1873 - 1947. Listings for Drake:

Drake, Frederick J., & Co., Chicago, 1903-1907, 1909-1910, 1912-1915; Co., 1922-1934; & Co., 1937-1947

From The Bookseller, Newsdealer and Stationer Jan 15, 1900 p 660:
Mr. F. J. Drake, formerly with the Werner Company of Akron, O., will start a publishing business of his own in Chicago and will also do a general agency business for eastern publishing.

The 1900 census shows that by Jun 9, 1900, Frederick J Drake and his wife Julia, and his sons Logan (?), Frederick J, and Stafford were all already living in Chicago.

SwanJr
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby SwanJr » January 20th, 2012, 11:19 pm

Does anyone know where one could find a copy of James Harto's Chandra, Mind Reading System?

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Magic Newswire
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Magic Newswire » February 17th, 2012, 11:26 pm

[img:left]http://mnw.squarespace.com/storage/HatchEnglandID3250.jpg[/img] As promised, I have just published a new episode of the "Spirit of Magic" podcast with Jason England as a guest co-host and Richard Hatch as our guest. What could we possibly be talking about? Well, obviously, it must be Erdnase. It's a long but fascinating discussion on the search for the author of one of the seminal texts in the art of close-up magic. Enjoy! Here's the link: http://bit.ly/EngHatch

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Bill Mullins » March 3rd, 2012, 6:08 pm

In my mind, the name that is most likely to be anagrammed into "S W Erdnase" is "E S Andrews"; therefore anyone who had that name ca. 1902 is worth entering into the record.

Billboard, 4/14/1906 p 32.
WASHBURN & D'ALMAS OPEN
The Washburn & D'Alamas Trained Animal Show opened at Richmond, Va., April 9, for a week's engagement. The roster is as follows: D. G. Markell, ring master and principal trainer; J. W. Brownlee, treasurer; Lew Foster, boss canvasman; Thos. Watson, boss hostler; Nick Family, caliope player; Burt Artist, trainer and wardrobe; Billy Waggon, master of transportation; H. M. Martin, chandelierman, and E. S. Andrews, general agent, with eight assistants.


The circus seems as viable a profession for a card manipulator as does a mining engineer, or railroad travelling agent.

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby SwanJr » March 3rd, 2012, 9:54 pm

Bill Mullins asked me to say something about my book, ARTIFICE, RUSE & ERDNASE: The Search For One Who May Not Want To Be Found, scheduled to come out on or around March 19th, both in an e-edition and in hard cover.

I just want to make a couple of points about the book. When I started researching it, I had no opinion as to Erdnase's identity. It was in writing the book that I came to certain conclusions. I did my best to keep putting off judgement as long as possible, not only until all the evidence was gathered but also until after I had plenty of time to think about the evidence within historical context.

I tried to make my thought process as absolutely clear as possible so the reader would know not only what my thoughts were, but also the process by which I reached them - and by extension whether he or she, the reader, agrees or disagrees. In the end my hope is that the reader will have attained greater clarity as to what he or she believes, not that my readers will have all come blindly to agree with my conclusions.

Hurt McDermott

Roger M.
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Roger M. » March 4th, 2012, 3:21 am

I'm really looking forward to this Hurt!

Who's publishing it in hardcover?

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Brad Jeffers
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Brad Jeffers » March 4th, 2012, 3:50 pm

Does anyone have a theory as to why here,
http://lcweb2.loc.gov/cgi-bin/ampage?co ... b&recNum=4 , on the title page of Houdini's copy, S.W. was changed to Samuel Edward?

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Richard Kaufman » March 4th, 2012, 3:54 pm

Someone should be able to tell us if that's Houdini's handwriting, or Clinton Burgess, or someone else.
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Joe Pecore
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Joe Pecore » March 4th, 2012, 4:17 pm

Looks like it says "Samuel Robert" (not Samuel Edward) to me.

I believe David Alexander had a theory about the "Samuel Robert Erdnase" name in this thread.

Also earlier in this thread, Hatch states that a Drake catalog of 1904 list the author as "Samuel Robert Erdnase" along with "204 pages" (rather than 205) with just "45 illustrations" (rather than 101).
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Joe Pecore » March 4th, 2012, 4:26 pm

There is also a chance that the handwriting could be Houdini's full time librarian, Alfred Becks (who I believe spent over 10 years cataloging all of Houdini's books.)
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Roger M.
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Roger M. » March 4th, 2012, 6:22 pm

The "Samuel Robert Erdnase" moniker is a catalogers error that has stuck to the book like glue down through the ages.
There are literally hundreds of references to that name to be found on the internet.......all related to (what is thought to be) the original catalog error.

In 1904, when Drake advertised a re-print in "United States Catalog: Books in America", they identified the author as Samuel Robert Erdnase.

Folks have also noticed some other discrepancies with the same catalog listing.
The listing also indicates 204 pages rather than 205, and only 45 illustrations rather than the now well known 101.

There are also no known copies of this listed edition........so the entire thing is odd.

The entire Samuel Robert Erdnase matter is referenced a few times in this thread, and is detailed on page 331 of "The Man Who Was Erdnase"

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Leonard Hevia » March 4th, 2012, 6:33 pm

Joe Pecore wrote:There is also a chance that the handwriting could be Houdini's full time librarian, Alfred Becks (who I believe spent over 10 years cataloging all of Houdini's books.)


Alfred Becks spent ten years in charge of the Harvard theater library arranging Robert Gould Shaw's collection. He moved into Houdini's townhouse in July 1920 and worked there until his death 18 months later.

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Joe Pecore
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Joe Pecore » March 4th, 2012, 6:55 pm

Leonard Hevia wrote:
Alfred Becks spent ten years in charge of the Harvard theater library arranging Robert Gould Shaw's collection. He moved into Houdini's townhouse in July 1920 and worked there until his death 18 months later.


From Silverman's book on Houdini: "Houdini's ambitions, and his affections, suffered from the death in April 1925 of his eighty-year-old librarian, Alfred Becks. On and off the genteel old man had indexed and catalogued for him for more than a decade."
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Leonard Hevia
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Leonard Hevia » March 4th, 2012, 7:46 pm

Silverman has given us two conficting pieces of information: "This "'well bred courteous gentleman,'" as Houdini described him took over a small bedroom at 278 in July 1920, eating and sleeping at the house for the next eighteen months.

Since Becks passed away in 1925, he could not have worked for Houdini for more than five years.

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Joe Pecore » March 4th, 2012, 7:51 pm

Leonard Hevia wrote:Silverman has given us two conficting pieces of information: "This "'well bred courteous gentleman,'" as Houdini described him took over a small bedroom at 278 in July 1920, eating and sleeping at the house for the next eighteen months.
Since Becks passed away in 1925, he could not have worked for Houdini for more than five years.


Not necessary conflicting. He could have started earlier but not moved in until 1920 and moved out in 18 months, but still kept working.

Although the reason I brought Becks up was that he was the librarian and those look like librarian markings in the book mentioned above.
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Leonard Hevia
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Leonard Hevia » March 4th, 2012, 8:06 pm

Christopher also has Becks as working for five years under Houdini on page 212 of Untold Story.

But I think we can both agree that Samuel Roberts is a dead end.

SwanJr
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby SwanJr » March 9th, 2012, 6:33 pm

I'm running a blog series on S.W. Erdnase as a literary and historical figure. This is to build interest in him among those who don't know who he is. I don't address the identity question.

The first posting for anyone interested is on Erdnase's place in the Chicago Renaissance, the intense flurry of books of lasting interest published in Chicago which began with Theodore Dreiser and L.Frank Baum, extending through to such writers as Ring Lardner and Ben Hecht. Almost every single "Renaissance" writer ended up somewhere else:

http://theinevitablehurt.blogspot.com

Hurt McDermott

SwanJr
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby SwanJr » March 16th, 2012, 11:05 pm

New posting on Erdnase & the 1893 World's Fair, two instigators of modernism.

http://theinevitablehurt.blogspot.com

Hurt McDermott

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby SwanJr » March 20th, 2012, 12:59 pm

I'm not going to post buying information for my book on this forum; but I want to let you know that I will sign copies for participants on this thread. Just identify yourself as such in the buyer's comments section of the order form and let us know you'd like it signed. You can check my blog (see above) if you want more info.

Hurt

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Richard Hatch » March 25th, 2012, 8:39 am

The search for Erdnase makes the German press:
http://tinyurl.com/7kmf7ap
Isn't the image given there as Wilbur E. Sanders really of his father?

Bill Mullins
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Bill Mullins » April 2nd, 2012, 12:16 pm

Thomas Sawyer, who has been seriously studying the authorship question for longer than most of us, started an Erdnase blog about the time that Marty Demarest's article came out in Genii last year. Sawyer's blog is idiosyncratic, to be sure, but there is much good information in it.

He has recently announced that he will be taking it down. Perhaps he has run out of stuff to say, or maybe he perceives a lack of interest/readership. This is a shame -- I always looked forward to anything he had to say on the subject. At any rate, I've archived it for future reference. Perhaps you should too.

Jamie
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Jamie » April 4th, 2012, 10:01 pm

Bill,
I had been following that blog as well...good reading.

Richard Evans
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Richard Evans » April 28th, 2012, 9:23 am

Tom's blog is a mine of useful information and thoughtful insights.

Has anyone had a chance to read Hurt McDermot's new book (Artifice, Ruse and Erdnase) yet?

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Richard Hatch » April 28th, 2012, 10:56 am

Richard Evans wrote:Has anyone had a chance to read Hurt McDermot's new book (Artifice, Ruse and Erdnase) yet?


I had a chance to read it in several early drafts and liked it a lot. Just received the hard copy version this past week and like it even more (I'm not much of an eBook reader yet).

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Richard Evans » April 28th, 2012, 1:49 pm

Thanks Richard. I went for the hard copy too & hope it'll arrive in the UK this week. Looking forward to it.

Bill Mullins
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Bill Mullins » April 28th, 2012, 6:59 pm

Got mine today, and am about half way through it. You will enjoy it. No smoking guns (as yet). It is an excellent survey of what is known, and what is speculated. McDermott is a relatively new player in the Erdnase game, and it is good to see things through a new set of eyes. He's already helped me ask and answer some new questions; and to reconsider some things that I thought I knew.

Sure could have used an index, though.

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby SwanJr » April 30th, 2012, 2:29 pm

Bill Mullins wrote:

Sure could have used an index, though.


Good point. Artifice, Ruse & Erdnase was first conceived as an ebook, in which of course keywords can be easily searched for.

Hurt McDermott
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Tom Sawyer
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Tom Sawyer » May 5th, 2012, 3:37 pm

Hi All,

I wanted to mention a couple of things in Hurt McDermotts new book, which dealt with certain things in my book on Erdnase.

First, I appreciate the kind references by Hurt to me and my book!

Secondly, on page 153, Hurt is quite right that my Wes Sanders re-jumbling doesnt work!

In fact, that (the re-jumbling) appeared in both the 1991 and 1997 editions of my Erdnase book. I didnt notice that problem myself until I think the middle of 2011. (I actually thought I had drawn attention to that on my Erdnase blog, but now, upon checking, it seems pretty clear that I did not.)

I did find the following in some draft material I wrote: No one ever brought it to my attention, but I did make at least one mistake in S.W. Erdnase: Another View. I said that Wes Sanders was a possible name -- that it used each letter once and added no extra letters. Wrong! I added an extra s.

(My draft actually continued that last sentence somewhat.)

Thirdly, here is a comment relating to pages 154-155 in Hurts Erdnase book.

In my Erdnase book, I mentioned that you can isolate the sequence ...E RUSE AND SU... from the Erdnase title-page and rearrange those letters into S. UU. Erdnase. I dont think I mentioned there that that was supposed to equate with S. Double-u. Erdnase, or S.W. Erdnase.

--Tom Sawyer

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby SwanJr » May 8th, 2012, 6:13 pm

I just want to thank Thomas Sawyer for commenting on my Artifice, Ruse & Erdnase. Anyone who has read Artifice knows how enormously I respect his monograph on The Man Who Was Erdnase. An appropriate title for it - given how many German references pop up when looking into Erdnase's identity - would be Prologomena to Any Future Erdnase Studies.

- Hurt McDermott

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Richard Hatch » May 15th, 2012, 1:12 pm

This seems a bit pricey for a water damaged copy of a fairly recent GENII, especially as the article was reprinted just last year, but perhaps not:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Genii-Magazine- ... 500wt_1287

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Richard Kaufman
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Richard Kaufman » May 15th, 2012, 1:27 pm

The market decides the value.
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Pete McCabe » May 15th, 2012, 2:47 pm

Not to nit pick, but the market merely decides the price. What you do with it determines its value.

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Ian Kendall » May 16th, 2012, 9:33 am

Thought for the day: Marshall Smith was Erdnase.

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Tom Sawyer » May 16th, 2012, 4:27 pm

Hi All,

I have been pondering the 1905 Drake clothbound copy of Erdnase (with a pictorial front-cover) that recently sold at auction.

I have never seen any of the Drake books being addressed below in this post.

However, in The Man Who Was Erdnase, an excellent case is made (pages 331-334) to the effect that there were two Drake printings previous to the 1905 basic version with the pictorial cover. I think that analysis was Jeff Busbys -- he wrote the introduction to the relevant bibliographical material on the Erdnase book. (The overall discussion there is more nuanced that this. For instance, Jeff speculated -- for reasons he mentioned -- that one of those printings was not for general release.)

I don't know whether anyone else has addressed the subject.

Above, I said basic version, because (from the Everything Erdnase site), we know there were at least two colors of cloth used on that.

--Tom Sawyer

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby magicam » May 17th, 2012, 2:49 am

For those who consider themselves serious about the bibliographical aspects of TEATCT, its time to properly use bibliographical terms. The correct use of bibliographical terms will in turn lead to much clearer thinking and analysis of the various editions (not) of Erdnase. For example, please stop referring to Drake hardbound editions no such things exist. At best, there may exist Drake hardbound issues. Ignore the window dressing (the binding) of the book and focus on the text block (the printed pages). Only then will one establish the proper foundations for analysis with respect to edition, issue, and state.

P.S. This is not a comment on Tom's post above, only a general comment given all the interest in Erdnase "bibliography" nowadays.

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Richard Hatch » May 17th, 2012, 3:12 am

Tom, Busby's speculation that the 178 page undated clothbound Drake in the UNLV library was an earlier (pre-1905) edition now seems unlikely, at least to me. There were 190 page and 178 page Drake versions and the chronological progression seems to be from 205 pages, to 190 pages to 178 pages, though the precise dates of the 190 page and some of the 178 page versions is not clear. It makes sense that they would gradually reduced the page count in an attempt to save costs and I know of one 178 page copy that has the 190 page Table of Contents, which to my way of thinking implies the 190 page version predates the 178 page version (they eliminated the pages but forgot to change the Table of Contents initially, would be my explanation). I believe some of the 178 page versions are dated (1934 in one case, I believe). My speculation based on Drake catalog listings was that the hardback 178 page clothbound copy (of which several copies are now known) would have likely been from about 1917-1920. But that is my "best guess" at present, and it is just a guess. I am convinced that a cloth bound 190 page Drake version was issued, though none have turned up to date, that I know of. The 178 page clothbound version seems to be the scarcest of the known Drake variants. Offhand, I know of only 3 copies, including the one at UNLV. Working from memory here, so apologies for any imprecision! My recollection is that Busby was basing his "printer's proof" speculation on the 1904 Drake catalog entry listing the book with several strange features (page count, illustration count and author's name) and the fact that the UNLV copy was the only hard cover known to Busby with 178 pages and the blank pages at the back.

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Bill Mullins » May 17th, 2012, 11:53 am

Has anyone (Jason? Geno?) checked to see if UNLV has provenance information on their copy?


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