ERDNASE

Discuss general aspects of Genii.
Geno Munari
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Geno Munari » October 19th, 2011, 7:58 am

Thanks Leonard. I finally found it.

Roger M.
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Roger M. » October 20th, 2011, 5:51 pm

Magicana has just sent a note out indicating that the August issue (it's quite late :) ) of Magicol will be mailed out shortly.

It's made clear in the mail out that there will be an article(s) on the possible identity of Erdnase.....among many other articles.
The issue has EATCT as its singular topic.

It will be most interesting to see what direction the author, or authors of said articles will go in.

I got the distinct impression, based on what LIMITED (factual) information actually made it out of the Erdnaseum event, that there was, shall we say, a complete lack of agreement as to whether the Sanders theory was solid enough to warrant any sort of declaration regarding Erdnases identity being "solved" once and for all.

In fact, it seems (in the limited communications from attendees) that there was more disagreement at said event that there was anything resembling an agreement.

Regardless, I await the Magicol issue, and will enjoy re-reading the Genii/Sanders issue in the meantime.

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Richard Hatch » October 20th, 2011, 7:29 pm

Leonard Hevia wrote:Right after this Sanders heads out to Chicago to visit his parents. They are staying in the Windsor Clifton Hotel which is not far from the hotel where Smith met Erdnase.

Leo, just wanted to point out that the above is plausible conjecture, not proven fact. The shortest route for Sanders to Montana by rail would not have taken him to Chicago, but the fact that his parents were in Chicago at the time, and that a typed letter from his father may have been typed by WES (as argued by Marty) do make the side trip to Chicago a distinct possibility.

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Bill Mullins » October 21st, 2011, 12:33 pm

Roger M. wrote: I got the distinct impression, based on what LIMITED (factual) information actually made it out of the Erdnaseum event, that there was, shall we say, a complete lack of agreement as to whether the Sanders theory was solid enough to warrant any sort of declaration regarding Erdnases identity being "solved" once and for all.

In fact, it seems (in the limited communications from attendees) that there was more disagreement at said event that there was anything resembling an agreement.


I don't believe the attendees of the Erdnaseum left with a consensus about the identity of the author, so strictly speaking, what Roger says above is true. But I hope no one reads his post and is left with the impression that the meeting was any thing other than collegial, supportive, and (most of all) fun. I renewed old friendships and made new ones. The fact that I disagree with some of them about various elements of the Erdnase story is the least important part of the weekend.

Let's face it, there is a certain element of geekdom in people flying and driving from all over the country to Montana to discuss who may or may not have written an obscure century old book (as one attendee put it, maybe the event should have been called "Nerd-ways-eum"). But being geeks, we reveled in it rather than argued over it.

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby crandash » October 26th, 2011, 11:51 pm

Geno,

I had the pleasure of meeting you in Helena MT during the Erdnaseum. I just finished reading Steinmeyers book on Thurston and I got a kick out of Thurston spending time in Belt Montana and devising his version of the Rising Card Trick there.

Anyhow, I could not remember if it was actually answered during the Erdnaseum weekend if Houdini actually ever made it to Butte Montana, during his vaudville days. You mentioned some "notes?" that may be able to answer my question, but I cannot recall what it was.
Chad Randash

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Geno Munari » October 27th, 2011, 12:46 am

Hi
It was a pleasure meeting you as well. What I was referring to are the booklets written by Frank Koval, The Illustrated Houdini Research Diaries, wherein Houdini was tracked on a daily basis. I don't have my copy with me so I can't say for sure about his visiting Butte, however he was in Colorado at some time.

If someone has a copy, please check this out.
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby crandash » October 27th, 2011, 5:30 pm

Geno that is it, the Koval diaries! I have spoken to a Tracy Thornton with the Butte Newspaper. She helped me track down an article from March 26, 1995 by Alan Goddard. In it, it lists a number of Entertainers who performed in Butte Montana and Houdini being one of them mentioned in the article.

I have also found this link http://montanahistoricalsociety.org/mus ... Conf07.pdf

Which is the Montana Historical Society 34th Annual Conference Oct 18-20th 2007. On page 7 of the Brochure there is a talk given by George Everett titled "How Vaudeville Fell in Love with Butte." mentioning Houdini as well.

Chad
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Dustin Stinett » November 24th, 2011, 3:14 pm

You fans of Erdnase really need to check out the MCA. Issue 180 of Magicol will be dedicated to the book and the identity of its author. Check my post here:

http://www.geniimagazine.com/forums/ubb ... Post256300

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Magicana » November 24th, 2011, 4:49 pm

Dustin Stinett wrote:You fans of Erdnase really need to check out the MCA. Issue 180 of Magicol will be dedicated to the book and the identity of its author. Check my post here:

http://www.geniimagazine.com/forums/ubb ... Post256300



We're happy to have anyone interested as a subscriber and you're welcome to join us for 2012.

We've closed off subscriptions for 2011, but the All Erdnase Issue will be available as a special limited edition booklet titled Erdnase Unmasked. It features the contributions from David Ben, Jason England, Richard Hatch & Hurt McDermott plus a reprint of a Martin Gardner piece on Erdnase which originally appeared in Magicol in 1951.

We expect the books to ship in early December. Copies will be available through your favourite dealer. Advance copies are available here: http://www.magicana.com/unmasked-book.p ... b=unmasked

You can also join us as a subscriber for 2012 here: http://www.magicana.com/mca/membership.php?vSec=mem

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Roger M. » November 24th, 2011, 6:40 pm

Very interesting news.....exciting even!
As a subscriber to Magicol, I have a question for Magicana.

Is the limited edition book something different than the Magicol issue mailed out to subscribers?

Are the contents the same?
Is the book bound differently, or presented differently from the magazine?

I'd love to have a copy of the book, as long as it's something different than the Magicol issue that's showing up in my mail box shortly :)

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Chris Aguilar » November 24th, 2011, 7:05 pm

Interesting to see what (if any) new evidence (smoking gun?) Hatch has unearthed to support his candidate (E.S. Andrews).

Is the photo on the cover Andrews?

Image

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby David Ben » November 25th, 2011, 1:48 pm

Roger

"Erdnase Unmasked" will be slightly different, but just slightly.

The Magicol "Erdnase" issue (No. 180) is the bulk of the material for "Erdnase Unmasked". The difference is that the Magicol issue will also have book reviews, obituaries, and advertisements from sponsors, as per previous issues.

As we have reached the end of the 2011 subscription year, and do not have enough back issues to fill subscription orders for 2011, we decided to release "Erdnase Unmasked". "Erdnase Unmasked" will have a different cover. We have also removed the book reviews, obituaries, and advertisements from it. To add to the page count, we have reproduced the text of Martin Gardner's article "Editions of Erdnase" which appeared in 1951. You can read this article for free, however, at the online exhibition, www.everythingerdnase.com.

If you are a 'collector', you might want to add "Erdnase Unmasked" to your collection. If you are just interested in the information, you should be fine with just Magicol No. 180, and a visit to the online exhibition.

Erdnase Unmasked is really for non-Magicol subscribers. Hopefully, they will enjoy it so much that they will also consider subscribing to the journal.

Hope this helps.

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Roger M. » November 25th, 2011, 5:18 pm

It most definitely helped.

You answered my question completely.

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Bill Mullins » December 4th, 2011, 8:06 pm

So who else has read the new issue of Magicol? Any thoughts? I have a couple --

1. Chris Aguilar -- the answer to your question is "yes".

2. If we regard Marty's article as the definitive case summary for the W. E. Sanders position, Richard Hatch's new article must stand beside it as the definitive argument for Edwin S. Andrews. It's great to have so much of what's been posted here on the forum since Richard's Magic article that first laid out the case for Andrews, all neatly tied up in one package.

3. I missed Hurt's presentation at the MCA weekend, and am glad to see what he had to say. There's a lot of good (and interesting, and relevant) information in it. But I'm not sure I agree with his conclusion (that Chicago is the only place that "Expert" could have been published, given the way authorities turned a blind eye to the Comstock Laws). How to explain F. R. Ritter's "Combined treatise on advantage card playing and draw poker", published only 3 years later in Columbus -- a much more overt instruction on how to cheat. At least "Expert" can make the claim that it was a "gambling protection" book.

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Chris Aguilar » December 4th, 2011, 10:53 pm

@ Bill Mullins.

So the Magicol (the Richard Hatch material) is basically a nicely wrapped up version of the information Richard Hatch has already posted up here?

Nothing new? Does Hatch speak to the possibility of W.E. Sanders at all? Even to debunk it?

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Bob Coyne » December 4th, 2011, 11:18 pm

Bill Mullins wrote:So who else has read the new issue of Magicol? Any thoughts?


Not to minimize the information and research behind it, but I think most of the info about ES Andrews was already posted here or elsewhere. It seemed familiar to me anyway. So it wasn't at all the "wow" experience I had when reading Marty's new findings on Sanders. If the possible connection to Dalrymple through Andrew's wife (Seely) could be established, then that would certainly add substantial weight to this candidate. But that possibility was something we knew already.

I didn't find David Ben's railroad worker profile convincing -- certainly not to the level of it being "obvious" that Erdnase "worked on the railroad" as claimed. Erdnase talks about playing in clubrooms etc, not on trains. So the railroad profile seemed like a force fit to match the candidate rather than the other way around. Even less convincing was the inflated claim (based on very little new evidence) that the case for ES Andrews being Erdnase was now established "beyond a reasonable doubt". Also unnecessary was the gratuitous comparison of the groundswell of support for Sanders with "popular delusions and the madness of crowds".

Anyway, I enjoyed reading the issue, but continue to find the Sanders case much more compelling. With Sanders we not only have the name (as anagram), the Chicago location (which he visited), a tenuous Dalrymple connection, matching height/age...but much more: his playing with anagrams in his notebooks, his buying multiple decks of cards, his gambling (and gambling debts), his doing magic, his education/intelligence and writing ability (and stylistic similarities), and the possible Del Adelphia connection. And I'm probably forgetting other items.

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Magic Newswire » December 5th, 2011, 10:41 am

I just posted my chat with David Ben & Julie Eng of Magicana in which we discuss the latest edition of Magicol & their EverythingErdnase.com exhibit. In addition to Mr. Hatch, Mr. Mullins is mentioned as well! Enjoy: http://bit.ly/EE

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Chris Aguilar » December 5th, 2011, 12:11 pm

Interesting to hear David Ben (in the Magic Newswire interview) refer to Marty's research as "Utter, complete nonsense."

Does Ben go into detail as to why he feels that way in the Magicol article? What facts does he bear to support that opinion? Or is it all pretty subjective?

Did people really think that David Alexander was "pretty much out of his mind" as Ben opines concerning the initial release of Alexander's research?

Is there anything to back up Ben's opinion that Marty's primary interest in stirring the Erdnase pot lies with an interest in writing a screenplay about it?

For the record, I don't think Marty's take is the final word. And based on what Hatch has posted here, I don't don't feel any more confidence in his take. Lacking a "smoking gun" of some sort, I can't buy claims "case closed" as RK has (to some extent) put forward for Sanders or that Mr. Ben has more bluntly claimed for Hathch's candidate. It seems very presumptuous based on the thin nature of the of the evidence. I do give Richard credit for at least admitting other points of view exist without questioning the motives of the researchers involved. It would be nice to see both sides follow that example.

I think if either take is debunked or seen in a lesser light, it has to be in light of actual evidence to support that. I wish I were hearing more of that from both sides.

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Chris Aguilar » December 5th, 2011, 12:54 pm

In retrospect, I think that one of Marty's biggest "stretches" was the Dalyrymple connection to his candidate Sanders. But now, after hearing David Ben's attempt to make a similar linkage with his candidate (in the audio interview) I'm struck by how equally weak his attempt at finding a connection seems.

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Dustin Stinett » December 5th, 2011, 1:36 pm

Unless I am reading it incorrectlywhich is certainly a possibility given my addled brainI dont think Marty claims a relationship with the cartoonist beyond the fact that a family member appeared in a Dalyrymple drawing. The way I read it, it was Smith who remembered that Erdnase brought up the relationship aspect. But its quite possible that all Erdnase said was that his father was in the drawing and Smith subsequently remembered it as more than that. If Erdnase was W.E. Sanders, it certainly would have made sense for him to mention, in conversation, that his father was in the cartoon. So from that point of view, there is, in fact, a connection between the Sanders family and Daylrymple: the proof is in the drawing.

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Chris Aguilar » December 5th, 2011, 1:48 pm

I don't disagree with you about the Dalrymple thing Dustin. I'll have to re-read the article to remind myself what kind of weight hid put (or didn't put) on the cartoon. I think I've mentioned before that I'm unwilling to assume that a "family connection" absolutely means "related by blood or marriage".

Compared to some of the other material, I still think it's one of the weaker bits of Marty's evidence. I do find it much more plausible compared to the supposed connection that David Ben mentions vis a vis his chosen candidate (Andrews.)

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Dustin Stinett » December 5th, 2011, 2:08 pm

For me (and I am far from being invested in this whole thing; I just find it interesting), its not any single thing that makes the Alexander/Demarest candidate so compelling: Its the number of little things combined that does it:

Erdnase was educated: Sanders was educated
Erdnase could write: Sanders could write
Erdnase was certainly into playing cards: Cards can placed in Sanders hands
Erdnase was a sporting man: Sanders was a sporting man
Erdnase was into magic: Sanders was into magic
Erdnase brought up Dalyrymple: Sanders father was in the cartoon
Erdnase had reason to remain anonymous: Sanders had reason(s) to remain anonymous
Erdnase was in Chicago to meet with Smith: Sanders family was in Chicago at that time
Erdnase certainly played games with his name: Sanders played games with his name
Erdnase knew Del Adelphia: Adelphia and Sanders probably crossed paths many times

I know everyone wants to see the smoking gun, but even today, mysteries dont always have that level of evidence. Its usually a preponderance of circumstantial evidence that makes the case.

Theres a part of me that hopes that smoking gun is never found.

Dustin

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Roger M. » December 5th, 2011, 2:13 pm

In the interest of accuracy, let's not "declare" that Dalrymple identified Sanders in the cartoon.......he didn't.

Although Dalrymple identified other State Senators in the cartoon by their actual name, and although he undertook to draw them with great accuracy, he identified the character we're talking about simply as "Montana"......and it's debatable whether it resembles Sanders with the same level of accuracy as the remainder of the characters present in the cartoon.

I took from Marty's article that he brought forward only the possibility that "Montana" was Sanders.

Taking no great leaps of faith, it may be said that there is a character in a Dalrymple cartoon who is identified as "Montana"......nowhere does it identify him as Senator Sanders......and it can also be said that other characters in the same cartoon are Senators who are identified with their actual names.

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Chris Aguilar » December 5th, 2011, 2:21 pm

Nice list Dustin. Looking at it, I'll modify my opinion a bit and say that the Dalyrymple evidence seems a lot stronger than the Del Adelphia connection.

I will note that while I actually would like a "smoking gun" of some sort, when I see your list and re-read the full article of course) vs. some of the lists people have made concerning Andrews, I prefer the circumstantial case for Sanders. Perhaps reading the full text of Mr. Ben's and Mr. Hatch's new opus will change my mind, but lacking information far beyond what has already been published here, I kind of doubt it'll happen.

Mr.Ben goes on about how other candidates (other than his own of course) are ruled out in some way, but doesn't specify in the interview (perhaps he does in the actual magicol article.)

Short of a smoking gun, I find it hard to take any candidate seriously unless it can be shown that they were not only a writer, but a damn good writer. EATCT is a superbly written book. This certainly weighs in favor of Sanders, who could not only write, but exhibited certain idiosyncrasies in his writing that correlate closely with the style of EATCT.

While I do not believe Marty (or anyone) has made a 100% solid case, I certainly do not share Mr. Ben's dismissive attitude toward it.

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Chris Aguilar » December 5th, 2011, 2:23 pm

Roger's point about the cartoon is valid.

However, Sanders was well known as the (very first State)Senator from Montana at that point and the cartoon (in my view) was drawn to closely resemble him. And the fact that he's drawn in a group of Senators and clearly labelled "Montana" makes it pretty hard to mistake him for anyone else. Is it coincidence that the guy in the cartoon is a state senator (and Montana only had one Senator at the time) of Montana who just happens to look like the well known Sanders? I certainly concede the possibility if not the probability.

So while I can't (and wont')assume 100% that it's Sanders in the cartoon, it's not implausible in any way to me that it easily could be.

David Ben's attempt at making a connection to Andrews (which boils down to "Well, the mention made wasn't to *those* Dalyrymples, but the person might have mistaken them for the cartoonist") doesn't (in my view) seem particularly more plausible or compelling.

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Brad Henderson » December 5th, 2011, 2:34 pm

For me, If I approach Marty's work with the mindset that "Sanders IS Erdnase", then his evidence is both compelling and convincing. If, however, I consider simply the evidence without holding the pre-judgmental in mind, I find myself less compelled and convinced.

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Roger M. » December 5th, 2011, 2:51 pm

Some folks have previously noted that, in a cartoon full of Senators identified by their names.....placing another figure NOT identified by his name, but rather by the notation "Montana" was done to ensure that he wasn't to be considered a Senator.

Some posts in this thread back in August considered that he might be designed to represent Montana miners as a group, thus the moniker "Montana"......and no name.

One thing that's gone by the wayside in this thread though, was back in August, Marty made the following statement in one of his posts:


Originally Posted By: Marty Demarest
The Dalrymple family was related to the Edgerton family.



.........to which David Ben responded:

If you could please, please be more specific. What evidence do you have of the relationship between Dalrymple and Sanders, other than the political cartoon? Would you be kind enough to name the actual source of this information and, or produce the document?

Thanking you in advance.

David



Marty didn't respond to David's request, and there's been no further discussion on the topic (there probably should have been).

I believe that, when making absolute statements, it's important to follow them up or to offer substantive evidence in support of those statements.
The danger of not doing so is that these "comments" over time become accepted by the uninformed as simple facts, when in reality they're nothing more than unsupported conjecture.

When the statement like the above is made by a gentlemen who has become an important figure in the discussion (Marty), I believe it's even more important to follow up on these kinds of statements with supporting comments.

So in taking Dustin's comment of earlier today, where he said:

I dont think Marty claims a relationship with the cartoonist beyond the fact that a family member appeared in a Dalyrymple drawing.


.......in fact, Marty did make a claim far stronger than the simple cartoon connection. He didn't make it in the Genii article, but made it here in the Genii forum.

It remains completely unsupported however.

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Chris Aguilar » December 5th, 2011, 2:55 pm

Roger M. wrote:I believe that, when making absolute statements, it's important to follow them up or to offer substantive evidence in support of those statements.

The danger of not doing so is that these "comments" over time become accepted by the uninformed as simple facts, when in reality they're nothing more than unsupported conjecture.


A very fair point.

Can we assume that you'll hold Mr. Hatch and Mr. Ben to the same standard in regards to their candidate Andrews?

Mr. Ben is making very strong claims for Andrew's and I look forward to seeing how he supports that (i.e. specifically, what are the facts and how that shapes his opinion.)

Any new substantive evidence brought to the table is much appreciated.

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Roger M. » December 5th, 2011, 3:08 pm

Chris, I absolutely assure you that once my VERY LATE copy of Magicol actually arrives at my door, I'll be applying the very same critical eye to the article(s) as I have to every other Erdnase article or book I've ever read.

Note that, as I've posted here previously......For me, Mr. Alexander's W.S. Sanders candidate alternated with Mr. Hatch's candidate as each brought forth more information over time.

I can honestly say I've got no horse in this race......not one.

I only seek an answer to the question that's been of great interest to me since the late 60's.

Honestly, I learned my lesson when I bought in far to early to the conclusions reached in "The Man Who Was Erdnase", in that simply because something is published (in TMWWE's case by at least two brilliant and respected authors)....there's no assurance that it's historically accurate, or even remotely correct in it's conclusions.

I won't be making that mistake again :)

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby John Lovick » December 5th, 2011, 3:10 pm

Did people really think that David Alexander was "pretty much out of his mind" as Ben opines concerning the initial release of Alexander's research?


Yes, many people I spoke to thought David Alexander's case for Sanders sounded like utter lunacy, as did I. And therefore, with the publication of the recent article, I, and many other people, were surprised that the case for Sanders is as strong as it is--it's not completely convincing but much stronger than we expected it to be.

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Richard Hatch » December 5th, 2011, 3:10 pm

On the Dalrymple/Sanders connection, I believe David Alexander's original article mentioned (and if it didn't then it was a later comment he made to me) that a Rev. Sanders officiated at the funeral of William Dalrymple, Louis' father. That would certainly be a lead worth following as well, and perhaps Marty has.

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Bill Mullins » December 5th, 2011, 3:11 pm

Chris Aguilar wrote: and Montana only had one Senator at the time


Both Wilbur Fiske Sanders and Charles Thomas Power took office in the Senate in Jan 1890. The Puck illustration was in a Jan 1891 issue. So, Montana had two senators at the time (and to my unsophisticated eye, the cartoon doesn't particularly resemble either of them).

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Chris Aguilar » December 5th, 2011, 3:12 pm

Roger M. wrote:Chris, I absolutely assure you that once my VERY LATE copy of Magicol actually arrives at my door, I'll be applying the very same critical eye to the article(s) as I have to every other Erdnase article or book I've ever read.


I look forward to seeing you tear into that with the same tenacity that you've brought to the discussion of Sanders.

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Roger M. » December 5th, 2011, 3:19 pm

It's funny how folks can read the identical article, and take very different things from it.

I've probably read David Alexanders article in Genii three dozen times since it was written, and I've only ever thought about how incredibly clever his conclusions were........especially the anagram element.

Alexanders research never struck me as even slightly "crazy".
"Creative" maybe.......but "crazy", no.
Alexander took some rather large leaps of faith, as has Marty in his furtherance of Alexanders work.

Those small to large leaps of faith are all you've really got when there's no smoking gun yet found..........but those same leaps of faith can be difficult to use in an effort to actually come to any sort of conclusion on the subject.

Although I haven't yet read it, and don't really like to comment on things I haven't read.......it does appear that Mr. Ben has taken some similar leaps of faith in some of his conclusions.

I look forward to having all the information at hand, in one place (my bookshelf), and available for further research and study.

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Chris Aguilar » December 5th, 2011, 3:33 pm

So, Montana had two senators at the time (and to my unsophisticated eye, the cartoon doesn't particularly resemble either of them).

Ah, definitely my mistake. Didn't look hard enough for the second senator.

That being said, I do not agree that the Puck cartoon did not resemble Sanders.
Image

In my view, the cartoon looked quite a bit like the above (Sanders) and very little like the following (Second Senator).

Image

I still don't find this connection particularly strong, but I do think the Senator in the cartoon resembles Sanders.


Image

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Jonathan Townsend » December 5th, 2011, 3:37 pm

Roger M. wrote:It's funny how folks can read the identical article, and take very different things from it.
...


There's a line in the song "the boxer" - "a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest" that's pretty informative on the matter. Confirmation bias for the knowing. Terms like "obviously", "plainly be seen", "self evident" are pretty good markers for items worthy of further investigation. They might serve in rhetoric after you've gotten the pathos happening but to a skeptical reader/listener they may beg questions.

SwanJr
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby SwanJr » December 5th, 2011, 4:25 pm

Bill,

I don't believe I claimed in my article that Chicago was the only city that Erdnase could have published The Expert. It was probably the most prominently known safe place to publish such a book, which might well explain why an author would take the trouble to travel there to publish -- or it might explain why a gambler would find himself in Chicago in the first place. I certainly didn't mean to suggest there was absolutely no other location in the States in which the book could be published.

Hurt McDermott

Bill Mullins
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Bill Mullins » December 5th, 2011, 5:04 pm

SwanJr wrote:Bill,

I don't believe I claimed in my article that Chicago was the only city that Erdnase could have published The Expert. It was probably the most prominently known safe place to publish such a book, which might well explain why an author would take the trouble to travel there to publish -- or it might explain why a gambler would find himself in Chicago in the first place. I certainly didn't mean to suggest there was absolutely no other location in the States in which the book could be published.

Hurt McDermott


Hurt -- my apologies for mischaracterizing your article. I can only offer "laziness" as an excuse -- I was on one side of the room typing my post, and your article was all the way on the other side of the room, too far to check for accuracy. <G>

Regardless, though, of my poor criticism of your work, you should be commended for coming at the problem from a completely different direction. This "thinking outside the box" is a great way to gain new insights, and sets up a whole 'nother paradigm that candidates must be measured against.

Comparing candidates against a checklist of "did he cheat?" "did he write?" "did he live in Chicago?" etc. is a mechanical way of identifying the author. Figuring out how and why the book was written the way it was, though, yields greater insights into the text itself (I feel like Jon Racherbaumer here . . . someone hand me a thesaurus!), and is ultimately much more satisfying.

Bill Mullins
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Bill Mullins » December 5th, 2011, 5:22 pm

Chris Aguilar wrote: I do think the Senator in the cartoon resembles Sanders.


Really? The guy in the cartoon has a hat, and Sanders doesn't.

Seriously, though, any argument that says "Montana" in the Puck cartoon is a senator must also apply to "Idaho", "Oregon", "Washington" and "Dakota" -- they occupy the same position in the cartoon as does "Montana". Which senators do they represent?

And the Montana cartoon has a much more hooked nose than does Sanders. A caricaturist as skilled as Dalrymple would have been more faithful to Sanders' appearance.

(And also, Chris, would you be so kind as to contact me off-line? I've tried to email you a couple times and had no luck. Thanks.)

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Magic Newswire
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Magic Newswire » December 5th, 2011, 5:35 pm

It appears that there was a temporary issue with the MP3 file for my chat with David Ben & Julie Eng. If you had trouble, please try again: http://bit.ly/EE


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