ERDNASE

Discuss general aspects of Genii.
Roger M.
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Roger M. » April 26th, 2023, 9:18 am

Jack Shalom wrote:Did Miracle Factory ever actually come out with their Erdnase book?

No, not yet.
It's still in production with the pre-orders now closed (to resume upon publication) and the deluxe edition sold out.

There is no timeline offered for its delivery.

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Brad Jeffers
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Brad Jeffers » April 27th, 2023, 9:25 pm

There is no timeline offered for its delivery
When pre-orders were first being taken in Jan 2020 there was a timeline. The book was to be available in the spring of 2020.

This was later changed to the summer of 2020.

Three years later and the timeline is now "as soon as we complete it".

Tom Sawyer
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Tom Sawyer » April 30th, 2023, 4:41 pm

Hi All,

Some of you might be interested to learn that among the projects I’m now working on are (a) a reprint of S.W. Erdnase: Another View and (b) an enlarged version of Rethinking S.W. Erdnase.

Probably in connection with that, last night I was looking through the remnants of a book that John Luckman gave me (or sold to me for some super-low price, but I think he gave it to me) of the Fleming edition of the Erdnase book, which he had used in making images for a reprint of the book. This was probably circa early-1970s. It was basically the front and back covers and all the leaves that made up the book. (The spine had been chopped off.)

I guess I placed the title page (that leaf) in a “safe” place, since it isn’t with the rest of the book. I'm pretty sure a few other leaves have also gotten separated from the main batch.

Anyway, there were a couple of things I found interesting. On what I assume was the front free-endpaper, it appears to say, in ballpoint pen, “Nan & Ran MacDougall” (though the “&” is really one of those “plus sign” things). The writing is reasonably clear. Obviously the surname is familiar, but those other names mean zip to me.

Another thing of mild interest is the rubber-stamp impression of “BERT WHEELER | HOLLYWOOD MAGIC.” This was pre-ZIP Code. Also, the phone number stated is HO. 2-9550, without an area code.

Also, that same page has an old pencilled price of 2.00. That has a line through it, and beneath that is a subsequent price, 1.00.

Elsewhere (on a different page) there is yet another old price: 1.50.

Pretty funny stuff! But I suppose many of us have seen low prices pencilled into old magic books, which in many cases would seem absurd now.

—Tom Sawyer

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Brad Jeffers
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Brad Jeffers » April 30th, 2023, 10:41 pm

Tom Sawyer wrote: it appears to say, in ballpoint pen, “Nan & Ran MacDougall” Obviously the surname is familiar, but those other names mean zip to me.
I would wager that that would be screenwriter Ranald MacDougall and his wife, the actress, Nanette Fabray.

Tom Sawyer
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Tom Sawyer » May 1st, 2023, 4:56 pm

Brad, that's great information. Thank you!

I found a signature of Ranald MacDougall on eBay, and it definitely was quite different from the writing under discussion, so the writing wasn't his.

I found many signatures of Nanette Fabray on eBay, many with an additional word or brief phrase. At that point, I was pretty sure it wasn't her handwriting, either.

But then I found a few handwritten letters elsewhere on the internet, and now I'm pretty certain that the names in the book were indeed written by her.

Anyway, thanks again.

—Tom

Bob Coyne
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Bob Coyne » May 10th, 2023, 12:12 am

Here's another author who wrote under a (mostly reversed) anagram of his actual name:

Salohcin Treboun. Nicholas Breton. Poet. (c. 1545/53 – c. 1625/6) 'Pasquil's Mistresse, or the Worthie and Vnworthie Woman; with his Description and Passion of that Furie, Jealousie,' 1600. The dedicatory epistle is signed 'Salohcin Treboun,' apparently an anagram upon Nicholas Breton. https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Dictionary_of_National_Biography,_1885-1900/Breton,_Nicholas

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Bob Coyne » May 13th, 2023, 11:29 pm

I ran across a bunch more of these that I hadn't seen before (source listed below):
  • Alcofribas Nasier (real name Francois Rabelais). In 1532, for Pantagruel King of the Dipsodes, the first of his Gargantua series.
  • Grubendol. (real name Henry Oldenburg). A German writer who lived in England. 1619-1677
  • Challudie (Simon) (real name Charles Du Moulin). French jurist. 1500-1566. Changed the U to an I.
  • Nellerto (real name Don Juan Antonio Llorente). A Spanish historian. 1756-1823
  • Ostilio Contalegni (real name Agostino Coltelini). Florentine poet. 1613-1693.
  • Cadenus (real name Jonathan Swift). Pen name was an anagram of Decanus (the dean). 1667-1745.
  • Usinulca or Alcuinus (real name John Calvin). Theologian. From Calvinus, using V and U as identical letters. 1509-1564
  • Edgar Cuthwellis and Edgar U.C. Westhill (real name Charles Lutwidge Dodgson). He considered these before adopting Lewis Carroll as his pen name.
  • Redbarn Wash (real name George Bernard Shaw). Rearranging the letters in his middle and last name.
  • H.A. Largelamb (real name A. GRAHAM BELL). In June 1907, an article appeared in the National Geographic magazine.
  • Mr. Mojo Risin (real name Jim Morrison of the rock band The Doors). In song, "L.A. Woman".

From https://digitalcommons.butler.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=3784&context=wordways

Joe Lyons
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Joe Lyons » May 18th, 2023, 1:19 pm

A first edition of The Expert just went for $5040 with buyer's premium.

I believe that's the lowest it's been for a while.

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AJM
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby AJM » May 18th, 2023, 1:29 pm

Another name that is an anagram.

Atticus Pund - the Poirot-style detective featured in the novel ‘Magpie Murders’ by Anthony Horowitz.

Warning - anyone posting the solution will immediately be banned from the Forum.

Andrew

Joe Lyons
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Joe Lyons » May 18th, 2023, 1:34 pm

AJM wrote:Warning - anyone posting the solution will immediately be banned from the Forum.



I believe they would be...

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Jonathan Townsend » May 18th, 2023, 5:56 pm

Some may have seen the miniseries on PBS last year.

How common a word was palaver?

* I’m looking for an editor more than an author based on the artist’s report.
Mundus vult decipi -per Caleb Carr's story Killing Time

Dave Le Fevre
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Dave Le Fevre » May 19th, 2023, 4:26 am

Since the name was written Atticus Pünd, and ü is usually expanded to ue, the anagram doesn't really work

Phew!, some would say :)

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AJM
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby AJM » May 19th, 2023, 5:47 am

Well thank goodness for that!

The future of the Forum is safe!

Joe Lyons
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Joe Lyons » May 19th, 2023, 8:04 am

Dave Le Fevre wrote:Since the name was written Atticus Pünd, and ü is usually expanded to ue, the anagram doesn't really work

Phew!, some would say :)

That's a relief.

I think we can all agree that United Catsup is a safer term than Putin Ducats.

Dave Le Fevre
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Dave Le Fevre » May 19th, 2023, 8:23 am

Joe Lyons wrote:Putin Ducats
Ah, now I see it.

I'd thought that it was Stupid Aunt, but that left me with an unused C. :D

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Bill Mullins » May 19th, 2023, 4:52 pm

Joe Lyons wrote:A first edition of The Expert just went for $5040 with buyer's premium.

I believe that's the lowest it's been for a while.


Recent sales (from Liveauctioneers):

5/2023 $5250
12/2022 8750
3/2022 10,625
1/2021 11,875
3/2020 10,625

Joe Lyons
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Joe Lyons » May 20th, 2023, 9:24 am

Bill Mullins wrote:
Joe Lyons wrote:A first edition of The Expert just went for $5040 with buyer's premium.

I believe that's the lowest it's been for a while.


Recent sales (from Liveauctioneers):

5/2023 $5250

My mistake, $5250.
I should have known, I have paid that 25% fee recently.

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Richard Evans
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Richard Evans » May 21st, 2023, 11:40 am

Richard Evans wrote:However, I do have a new candidate to put forward. His name has been mentioned here before - back in 2015 when the McKinney bankruptcy files were found. At the time, he was considered unlikely to be the author of TEATCT. After digging deep into his background over the last 3 years, he has proven to be much more interesting than would first appear and I believe there is sufficient evidence to make him a serious person of interest.

My candidate is Emory Cobb Andrews

I'm considering how best to share the large amount of information I've gathered to support this.


I am pleased to say that I will be revealing the evidence in favour of Emory Cobb Andrews at The Magic Circle's History Day on Saturday 3rd June. If you're in London you'd be very welcome to come along - it's a great day and the event is open to members and non-members alike. All the talks will be recorded and will be viewable (for members only) on the Magic Circle's website a short time later. Aside from my talk on EC Andrews/SW Erdnase, the programme for the day features: Noel Britten, on a little-known illusion; Michael Symes, on Magic in the Opera; Steffen Taut, on magic manufacturer and dealer, Manfredo; and Richard Wiseman on the history of interactive magic.

A few days after my presentation, the full account of my research will be published in a great magic history journal that's easily accessible in hard copy or pdf. Details to follow.

I'm looking forward to sharing this with you.

Tom Sawyer
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Tom Sawyer » May 25th, 2023, 4:34 pm

Richard Evans: Sounds great!

On another topic, I just saw this on eBay, a 1934 (on title page) Erdnase. It has some pencil markings, but still I doubt that the book will be there for long:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/235024731701/

—Tom

Stephen Burton
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Stephen Burton » May 25th, 2023, 7:21 pm

Tom Sawyer wrote:Richard Evans: Sounds great!

On another topic, I just saw this on eBay, a 1934 (on title page) Erdnase. It has some pencil markings, but still I doubt that the book will be there for long:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/235024731701/

—Tom


It's the truncated version with only 178 pages so not as collectible as other Drake copies.

Roger M.
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Roger M. » May 26th, 2023, 1:21 am

Stephen Burton wrote:
It's the truncated version with only 178 pages so not as collectible as other Drake copies.


Indeed, because it's not often mentioned in the ongoing conversation, I wonder how many folks realize that there's 30 or so pages of card tricks missing from this particular Drake edition?

Tom Sawyer
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Tom Sawyer » May 26th, 2023, 5:04 pm

Hi All,

This is an update on my post here of April 30, 2023, where I said, in part:

Probably in connection with that, last night I was looking through the remnants of a book that John Luckman gave me (or sold to me for some super-low price, but I think he gave it to me) of the Fleming edition of the Erdnase book, which he had used in making images for a reprint of the book. This was probably circa early-1970s. It was basically the front and back covers and all the leaves that made up the book. (The spine had been chopped off.)

I guess I placed the title page (that leaf) in a “safe” place, since it isn’t with the rest of the book. I'm pretty sure a few other leaves have also gotten separated from the main batch.

Well, I was just reorganizing a bookcase, and I ran across a copy of The Man Who Was Erdnase that I didn't even know I possessed. It was in really nice condition (unlike the everyday copy that I often have consulted), and I flipped through it. I was happy to see, tucked just inside the back cover, the "missing" leaf.

The following is a little description that I published in one of my magic-collecting periodicals (Aphelion: A Journal of Magic History and Bibliography, Number 11, November 1994):

In reviewing The Man Who Was Erdnase (Whaley, Gardner, and Busby) a couple of years ago [remember, this was published in 1994], I was interested in Busby's description of a very early copy [so it seemed back then!] of The Expert at the Card Table at the University of Nevada at Las Vegas. He mentions that the triangular subtitle has been cut and scotch-taped back. Something similar has been done with the title page of my copy under discussion. The words "WITH CRITICAL COMMENTS/BY/ PROFESSOR HOFFMANN" have apparently been cut out (by a rectangular cut) and then taped back into place. I have always thought that this was done in connection with the laying-out of the page for photographing. A small slip of paper with the GBC logo and the address BOX 4115/LAS VEGAS, NEVADA 89106 has been taped onto the title page, on top of the imprint (CHICAGO/THE CHARLES T. POWNER CO./1944).

The GBC logo and address are in red ink, and I think that was a "return address" had been clipped from an envelope, because there is a vertical crease to the left of the address.

—Tom Sawyer

Stephen Burton
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Stephen Burton » May 26th, 2023, 6:18 pm

Roger M. wrote:
Stephen Burton wrote:
It's the truncated version with only 178 pages so not as collectible as other Drake copies.


Indeed, because it's not often mentioned in the ongoing conversation, I wonder how many folks realize that there's 30 or so pages of card tricks missing from this particular Drake edition?


Yes, if the last two words of the Erdnase copy are not "hocus-pocus", I'm not interested in owning it.

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Richard Hatch » June 5th, 2023, 2:06 pm

Professor Richard Evans research on Erdnase has finally been published and is available here:
https://yeoldemagicmag.com/downloads/vol-9-issue-3
Lots of interesting information to digest and consider. Steve Burton's early speculations are cited significantly. Publisher Marco Pusterla points out that he is not printing extra copies, so those having a hard copy will likely see it appreciate in value in the Erdnase collecting community!

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Richard Hatch » June 5th, 2023, 2:34 pm

Here's a better link to purchase this (only 9 copies of the hard copy version left!):
https://yeoldemagicmag.com/

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Richard Hatch » June 5th, 2023, 3:33 pm

Richard Hatch wrote:Here's a better link to purchase this (only 9 copies of the hard copy version left!):
https://yeoldemagicmag.com/

Whoops, I was looking at the volume 9, number 2 issue, as the current issue (volume 9, number 3) didn't yet have a purchase link. There are 30 issues left of the Erdnase cover story issue.

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Marco Pusterla » June 5th, 2023, 3:39 pm

Richard, many thanks. The magazine has been put for general sale now: you are a subscriber and as such received an advance copy.

This issue explores Emery Cobb Andrews, the candidate supported by Richard Evans. The man shares many aspects with what researchers think Erdnase may have been, and answers many of the questions (the name, the place, deceipt, skill...) that have troubled other Erdnase candidates. The research is compelling and should make one think. The more you know about the "Erdnase mystery", the more you will appreciate some of the points made by Prof. Evans. I have surely found this man a viable candidate for Erdnase, but was he Erdnase? I for one will welcome more research.
Marco Pusterla - https://mpmagic.co.uk

Ye Olde Magic Mag: magazine on magic history and collecting.

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AJM
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby AJM » June 5th, 2023, 4:20 pm

Richard Hatch wrote:
Richard Hatch wrote:Here's a better link to purchase this (only 9 copies of the hard copy version left!):
https://yeoldemagicmag.com/

Whoops, I was looking at the volume 9, number 2 issue, as the current issue (volume 9, number 3) didn't yet have a purchase link. There are 30 issues left of the Erdnase cover story issue.


Yea, thanks - I went ahead and purchased issue 2.

I guess I won't be reading any new Erdnase speculation then...

Marco - you couldn't help by any chance?

Andrew

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Marco Pusterla
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Marco Pusterla » June 5th, 2023, 4:46 pm

Andrew, please check your email :-)
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AJM
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby AJM » June 5th, 2023, 4:57 pm

Many thanks Marco.

Regards

Andrew

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Richard Evans
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Richard Evans » June 5th, 2023, 5:38 pm

Richard Hatch wrote:Here's a better link to purchase this (only 9 copies of the hard copy version left!):
https://yeoldemagicmag.com/


Thanks for posting the link Richard. I hope the article will be of particular interest to the enthusiasts here.
BW
Richard

Stephen Burton
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Stephen Burton » June 9th, 2023, 4:38 pm

Professor Evans' research should be investigated by everyone interested in the mystery of Erdnase. It's a fascinating account. Friends with Houdini? Perhaps rubbing elbows with Vernon? Amazing!

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby JHostler » June 10th, 2023, 6:36 pm

Edward M. Vernelo (Savage), Sphinx and Vernelo & Company proprietor in 1902, was married to Onez ("M. Inez") Galehouse and had six siblings (Laura, Herbert, Cora, William, Ervin, and Myrtle). If anyone other than Smith engaged directly with Erdnase, it was Savage - who distributed true first editions/printings. Have all Savage and/or Galehouse family leads been exhausted? Apologies if this was resolved long ago (which is highly likely).
"The gnomes' ambition is handicapped by laziness." Adapted from Charles Bukowski, and clearly evident at http://www.gnominal.com

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Richard Hatch » June 11th, 2023, 6:48 pm

JHostler wrote:Edward M. Vernelo (Savage), Sphinx and Vernelo & Company proprietor in 1902, was married to Onez ("M. Inez") Galehouse and had six siblings (Laura, Herbert, Cora, William, Ervin, and Myrtle). If anyone other than Smith engaged directly with Erdnase, it was Savage - who distributed true first editions/printings. Have all Savage and/or Galehouse family leads been exhausted? Apologies if this was resolved long ago (which is highly likely).


I haven't explored those family leads, but encourage someone to do so. I would point out that I am personally not convinced that Vernelo dealt directly with the author. Here's my reasoning on that issue: The book was available for sale in March 1902. The first issue of the Sphinx is dated March 15, 1902, but the book is not mentioned till the September issue, and then just a passing editorial comment about it in the last issue edited by William Hilliar. The Vernelos first advertise it in the November 1902 issue, a quarter page ad quoting the preface but omitting the final line about the author needing the money. On that same page they advertise a book by T. A. Bland called "In the World Celestial", a book with no magical content, but one also printed by James McKinney and bearing a superficial resemblance to a first edition Erdnase (same size, green cloth cover). I'm guessing that Vernelo bought his Erdnase stock from McKinney and some copies of the Bland book were included by mistake. Rather than return them, Vernelo tried to sell them. Just a guess on my part, but I have no idea why he would have purchased and advertised them. I doubt that if he had obtained his Erdnase copies from the author, rather than McKinney, these books would have been part of the deal. Speculation on my part, but that's my current thinking.

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Richard Hatch » July 5th, 2023, 9:26 pm

Sad news for the wider Erdnase and magic history community. According to an email from Dr. Solka, Oleg Anatolyevich Stepanov, the translator of Erdnase into Russian and the foremost Russian historian of magic, passed away in St. Petersburg, Russia on December 4, 2022 at age 62. I exchanged a few emails with him about Hofzinser and Erdnase more than a decade ago, but did not know him otherwise. According to Dr. Solka, in addition to his scholarship in magic, he was also created crossword puzzles and was an expert on board games, writing books and programs about Shogi, Go and Othello, as well as creating crossword puzzles.

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Roger M. » July 5th, 2023, 10:05 pm

I remember Olegs posts in this thread and over on the Cafe. He typed with “an accent” and asked a great many interesting questions! RIP

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Dr. Solka » July 6th, 2023, 6:09 am

Oleg Stepanov earned great merits for researching the history of magic art in Russia. He saw the need to know history to create something new in Russia. His critical thinking did not only win him friends.
RIP my friend!

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Richard Hatch » July 6th, 2023, 1:37 pm

Dr. Solka wrote:Oleg Stepanov earned great merits for researching the history of magic art in Russia. He saw the need to know history to create something new in Russia. His critical thinking did not only win him friends.
RIP my friend!


Dr. Solka, Thank you for letting us know about him. Do you have any information on his cause of death at age 62?

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Dr. Solka » July 6th, 2023, 4:11 pm

I have known Oleg since 2005 and could exchange interesting information with him. I received no answer when I tried to contact him at the end of 2022. I found a message about his death in a Russian media channel a few weeks ago. He had been buried in the closest circle and had been very ill. I think I remember him mentioning diabetes to me once.
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Tarotist » July 7th, 2023, 4:49 am

I don't know much about Erdnase but the little I have read of the matter makes me think that Milton whatever-his-name Andrews was actually Erdnase all along but he wasn't the one who wrote the magic section. That was the other guy whose name I have quite forgotten. However all the Erdnase know-it-alls on here will remember his name as he was the one acknowledged as doing it by someone whose name I have also forgotten. However, he was the guy who first ratted out Milton and the person who wrote the magic text.

I expect nobody here understands the above paragraph including myself so I had better move on. I do think it explains why the artist M.D. Smith's description didn't fit the Andrews guy who was shot by the police. I bet it was the magician who visited him rather than Andrews. One clue is that Smith only remembered doing around 30 or so illustrations when in actual fact there were a lot more in the book. However, if you count the illustrations in the magic section there are not much more than 30. Probably 40 or so.

Maybe someone came along later to do the rest of the illustrations and Marshall Smith (or whatever his name was) forgot about that.

Anyway I suspect that Martin Gardner got it right all along before everyone else joined in with all these other candidates and muddied the waters.

I may well be wrong but I don't care either way. I have no interest in Erdnase and I don't give a stuff who he was. I am just bored and giving my psychic impressions concerning the matter.

Oh, and I suspect Andrews didn't write the card sharping bit either but just gave the details to the magician to write it. A bit like Ganson writing up Vernon's work. Andrews supplied the information but the other magician guy did the writing.


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