ERDNASE

Discuss general aspects of Genii.
Leonard Hevia
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Leonard Hevia » April 22nd, 2018, 12:03 pm

Leonard Hevia wrote:More wonderful Erdnasium from the great David Saltman's blog:

http://www.houdinifile.com/2018/04/the- ... dnase.html


Wasshuber could not resist leaving his Gallaway calling card at Saltman's blog. In his fictional narrative, Gallaway also met Houdini when they both worked at the circus:

"How well did these two know each other?" Since I am convinced S.W. Erdnase was Edward Gallaway...there is one other possible connection between Erdnase and Houdini: circus. Edward Gallaway worked at the circus ~1891-1894. We also have him managing a sideshow for a fair in 1896, so his involvement with the circus spans at least 1891-1896. That means there is a possibility that Gallaway may have met Houdini at the circus. Or perhaps it was a topic Gallaway and Houdini could bond with when they perhaps met at Roterberg's shop, or when Harto introduced them. Also Harto was a circus performer, as was Vernelo, yet another magic shop owner in Chicago who worked at circuses. Perhaps all of these folks knew each other from the circus, or at least knew of each other as circus people and thus bonded and did business with each other.

Houdini worked for the Welsh Brothers circus in 1895, and did not return to the Welsh Brothers again until 1898 for one final time. He only spent two seasons with the Welsh Brothers, which goes to show you the circus life was not for him. If he did meet Gallaway at the circus, it could have only been during his stint with the Welsh Brothers in 1895. As far as I know, there is no evidence that Gallaway was involved with the Welsh Brothers in any capacity.

In any case, Gallaway left the circus in 1894, that was a year before Houdini even joined the Welsh Brothers! As for working that fair in 1896, there is no evidence of Houdini having worked in any fairs in 1896. This is all more fanciful musings from Wasshuber and not actually hard research.

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lybrary
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby lybrary » April 22nd, 2018, 2:45 pm

Leonard Hevia wrote:In any case, Gallaway left the circus in 1894, that was a year before Houdini even joined the Welsh Brothers! As for working that fair in 1896, there is no evidence of Houdini having worked in any fairs in 1896.
Leonard knows nothing! First of all, Gallaway's circus time, 1891-1894, is an estimate. It could just as well have been 1892-1895. We don't have the information to exactly pin it down. And yes, we do have him managing the sideshow of the Warren County Fair September 1896. There is a nice newspaper report in the "West Lebanon Gazette" about it where he showcases Couch’s Little World, Frank Mortimer, the marvelous boy juggler, and eight year-old Clara, the youngest snake charmer. Leonard Hevia is full of lies, lies, lies, ...
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Leonard Hevia
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Leonard Hevia » April 22nd, 2018, 3:13 pm

lybrary wrote:Edward Gallaway worked at the circus ~1891-1894."


Allright then.
lybrary wrote:First of all, Gallaway's circus time, 1891-1894, is an estimate. It could just as well have been 1892-1895. We don't have the information to exactly pin it down.


Oh? It could very well have been 1982 to 1895? But you did state 1891-1894 as fact on Saltman's blog--and without the exact information to justify that statement. I hope Mr. Saltman gets updated on that.


lybrary wrote:And yes, we do have him managing the sideshow of the Warren County Fair September 1896. There is a nice newspaper report in the "West Lebanon Gazette" about it where he showcases Couch’s Little World, Frank Mortimer, the marvelous boy juggler, and eight year-old Clara, the youngest snake charmer.


There is no record of Houdini having performed or worked in Ohio in 1896. He most likely passed thru Ohio via train on his way to Chicago from New York, but no work there and certainly nothing about having been near the Warren County Fair in 1896. And no record of Gallaway having worked for the Welsh Brothers circus in 1895 and 1898.

If Houdini bumped into Gallaway, it would have been in a Chicago magic shop and not the circus.

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lybrary
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby lybrary » April 22nd, 2018, 3:57 pm

Leonard Hevia wrote:But you did state 1891-1894 as fact on Saltman's blog--and without the exact information to justify that statement.
Again wrong. I wrote "~1891-1894". That little tilde in front of the dates means approximately. See, now you learned something new. Eventually you will graduate from middle school. Hang in there.

Leonard Hevia wrote:
lybrary wrote:And yes, we do have him managing the sideshow of the Warren County Fair September 1896. There is a nice newspaper report in the "West Lebanon Gazette" about it where he showcases Couch’s Little World, Frank Mortimer, the marvelous boy juggler, and eight year-old Clara, the youngest snake charmer.

There is no record of Houdini having performed or worked in Ohio in 1896.
The West Lebanon Warren County I am referring to is in Indiana, not Ohio. Nobody knows where and if they ever met, but since both worked at the circus during the same time the chances of them having met and struck up a friendship is much higher than any other random guy like Sanders or E.S. Andrews.
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Leonard Hevia » April 22nd, 2018, 5:07 pm

lybrary wrote:
Leonard Hevia wrote:But you did state 1891-1894 as fact on Saltman's blog--and without the exact information to justify that statement.
Again wrong. I wrote "~1891-1894". That little tilde in front of the dates means approximately.


Little tildes...oh, allright then.

Leonard Hevia wrote:
lybrary wrote:The West Lebanon Warren County I am referring to is in Indiana, not Ohio. Nobody knows where and if they ever met, but since both worked at the circus during the same time the chances of them having met and struck up a friendship is much higher than any other random guy like Sanders or E.S. Andrews.


Both worked the circus but no record either of Houdini ever having been in Indiana in 1896. Now Gallaway could have met Houdini in the circus if he worked for the Welsh Brothers in 1895. So far no record exists of Gallaway ever having worked for the Welsh Brothers.

Houdini spent quite a bit of time in Chicago in 1899, almost the entire month of January, and returned there in mid August for a one week engagement. He also performed in Denver, Colorado early October of that year and could have bumped into Sanders at any of those times. Sanders traveled extensively thru Chicago, and NYC was also a frequent destination.

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Bob Coyne » April 22nd, 2018, 7:27 pm

Leonard Hevia wrote:Houdini spent quite a bit of time in Chicago in 1899, almost the entire month of January, and returned there in mid August for a one week engagement. He also performed in Denver, Colorado early October of that year and could have bumped into Sanders at any of those times. Sanders traveled extensively thru Chicago, and NYC was also a frequent destination.

Also, in Marty Demarest's article, he suggests that Sanders could have met Houdini when Houdini was on tour and performed in Butte Montana (Sander's occasional home town) in the 1890s. Houdini had a diary note about being scheduled to perform there. And he also left behind an autographed picture.

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Leonard Hevia » April 22nd, 2018, 11:28 pm

Bob Coyne wrote:Also, in Marty Demarest's article, he suggests that Sanders could have met Houdini when Houdini was on tour and performed in Butte Montana (Sander's occasional home town) in the 1890s. Houdini had a diary note about being scheduled to perform there. And he also left behind an autographed picture.


After Houdini signed with Martin Beck in March 1899, he headed out West to work the Orpheum Circuit. He toured thru cities like Omaha, Nebraska, Kansas City, Kansas, and Denver, Colorado. There are roughly 5 or so weeks in this vicinity where his whereabouts are still unknown. After his engagement at the New Lyceum Theater in Denver on October 8, there are two unrecorded weeks before an October 19th performance in Chicago, Illinois. Could he have toured thru Montana before hitting Chicago? Maybe.

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Bill Mullins » April 23rd, 2018, 1:48 am

lybrary wrote:
Leonard Hevia wrote:In any case, Gallaway left the circus in 1894, that was a year before Houdini even joined the Welsh Brothers! As for working that fair in 1896, there is no evidence of Houdini having worked in any fairs in 1896.
Leonard knows nothing! First of all, Gallaway's circus time, 1891-1894, is an estimate. It could just as well have been 1892-1895. We don't have the information to exactly pin it down. And yes, we do have him managing the sideshow of the Warren County Fair September 1896. There is a nice newspaper report in the "West Lebanon Gazette" about it where he showcases Couch’s Little World, Frank Mortimer, the marvelous boy juggler, and eight year-old Clara, the youngest snake charmer. Leonard Hevia is full of lies, lies, lies, ...

Chris's ebook says "I believe Gallaway’s most likely time at the circus was 1891/2-1893/94." Kind of churlish to call Leonard's comment "lies, lies, lies" for repeating that information.

Chris also quotes the Gallaway bio as saying that Gallaway worked at circuses for three summers. Since Gallaway started the first of several of his own printing businesses in Chicago in Apr 1895, and since the Lakeside Chicago Directory of that year (released in mid-July) lists his business and address as being in Chicago, he didn't do much circussing in the summer of 1895.

Chris has been aware of the impossibility of Gallaway's and Houdini's circus paths crossing for six months now, but continues to release books with this mis-information. Once you know that Chris is willing to put into print this and other "facts" that are patently untrue, it casts a whole new light on the book.

(Chris often says, instead of "three summers", "three years." But three summers, inclusive, would only be 2-1/4 years. He also says, at one place, "Gallaway travelled with small circuses from around 1896-1899." So precision and consistency with numbers aren't his strong suit.)

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Brad Jeffers » April 23rd, 2018, 2:28 am

lybrary wrote: ... since both worked at the circus during the same time the chances of them having met and struck up a friendship is much higher than any other random guy like Sanders or E.S. Andrews.

You keep referring to Gallaway and Houdini as having worked at "the" circus, as if there were only one.

There were about a hundred different circuses touring during the time period of 1891-1894.

If you were to be working in a circus, the chance of you meeting someone who was working in a different circus would be highly unlikely.

You would never be in the same town at the same time.

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Brad Henderson » April 23rd, 2018, 7:10 am

chris demands certainty for others’ claims yet merely possibilities for his own.

his entire ‘argument’ is built on ‘well,
it could have happened.’

by that measure, it could have happened that Gallaway was a member of the illuminati’s secret alien lizard people clan as - as evidence by many sites on the internet - that totally COULD have happened.

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Bill Mullins » April 23rd, 2018, 8:24 am

Brad Henderson wrote:his entire ‘argument’ is built on ‘well, it could have happened.’

The "Judy Tenuta" approach.

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Brad Henderson » April 23rd, 2018, 9:00 am

yeah, an inch of height is a bridge too far but making up years in which the guy was in the circus is a completely reasonable margin of error.

the double standard and self serving hypocrisy is embarrassing to magical scholarship.

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby lybrary » April 23rd, 2018, 9:26 am

Bill Mullins wrote:Chris has been aware of the impossibility of Gallaway's and Houdini's circus paths crossing ...
It is not at all an impossibility. It is definitely possible. Gallaway's bio is inconsistent and incomplete in several ways. He says he started at Bentley-Murray in 1898 and stayed there for 20 years. But that is not correct. Around 1911 he went to work for Geo Renneker. Around 1901-1902 we know he worked for James McKinney. Later he had other businesses of his own. So either he is working multiple jobs at the same time or his bio is not entirely correct or complete. We therefore do not know exactly when he was working at the circus. 1895 is a possibility.

Bill Mullins wrote:He also says, at one place, "Gallaway travelled with small circuses from around 1896-1899." So precision and consistency with numbers aren't his strong suit.)
This is from the "Further Research" chapter which hasn't been updated since the first edition of my ebook. With new information coming to light about Gallaway all the time, there will naturally be several inconsistencies in the ebook until everything has been updated.

Brad Jeffers wrote:If you were to be working in a circus, the chance of you meeting someone who was working in a different circus would be highly unlikely. You would never be in the same town at the same time.
That is also not true. There are newspaper accounts where two different circuses cross paths, meaning set up their show in the same or neighboring town. Sometimes one sets up while the other one tears down. In these situations there is time for them to meet. Additionally many circuses wintered in the same towns. Peru in Indiana was called the circus capital of the world because so many circuses wintered there. That means all those circus folks could easily meet after the summer season was over.
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby jkeyes1000 » April 23rd, 2018, 10:31 am

It is childish to snipe at Chris, suggesting that his logic is somehow inferior to everybody else's. From a purely objective point of view, it is superior. He is calm, cool and rational. Unlike most of the Sanders and Andrews advocates, who seethe hotly at any suggestion that Gallaway might have written EATCT.

Here they are arguing that Chris is presumptuous to suggest the possibility of Galloway meeting Houdini. They mock Chris, by saying that his argument is that "it could happen". And then they proceed to vaunt that Sanders could have met Houdini in Butte, Montana.

Bill even uses the phrase "the impossibility" of Gallaway meeting Houdini. I've got some bad news for you folks. Your logic looks like jealousy, and is wickedly hypocritical.

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Bill Mullins » April 23rd, 2018, 11:18 am

lybrary wrote: Gallaway's bio is inconsistent and incomplete in several ways. . . . or his bio is not entirely correct or complete..

So, like Smith's account to Gardner, it is an account from which you can pick the parts that you like, and say they are accurate, and the parts you don't like, you can say they are wrong.
[N.B., jkeyes1000: tell me again how logic like this is superior and rational?]

Additionally many circuses wintered in the same towns. Peru in Indiana was called the circus capital of the world because so many circuses wintered there. That means all those circus folks could easily meet after the summer season was over.

Which is irrelevant to Edward Gallaway, since we only know of him working circuses in summers.

jkeyes1000 wrote:Bill even uses the phrase "the impossibility" of Gallaway meeting Houdini.

Given that Gallaway was a printer in Chicago in the summer of 1895, and Houdini was in the Welsh Bros. Circus in Pennsylvania during that same summer, and Gallaway was a printer in Chicago in the summer of 1898, and Houdini was again with the Welsh Bros. Circus in Pennsylvania, I think that "impossible" is a pretty good word to describe the likelihood of their circus paths crossing.
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby performer » April 23rd, 2018, 11:23 am

I can really sense the love emanating from this thread!

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby lybrary » April 23rd, 2018, 11:31 am

Bill Mullins wrote:So, like Smith's account to Gardner, it is a story which you can pick the parts that you like, and say they are accurate, and the parts you don't like, you can say they are wrong.
[N.B., jkeyes1000: tell me again how logic like this is superior and rational?]
Except many of the things in his bio can be independently verified by other sources such as newspaper or trade journal entries. This makes it a lot better than simply 45 year old memories, many of which cannot be independently verified.

Bill Mullins wrote:
Additionally many circuses wintered in the same towns. Peru in Indiana was called the circus capital of the world because so many circuses wintered there. That means all those circus folks could easily meet after the summer season was over.

Which is irrelevant to Edward Gallaway, since we only know of him working circuses in summers.
Because that is the only time circuses actually toured. What he did during winter isn't known, but since we have no records of him working in the print industry during that time why would he not socialize with other circus folks? Why would he not begin to write EATCT? Why would he not gamble and practice his cards?
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby jkeyes1000 » April 23rd, 2018, 11:46 am

Bill Mullins wrote:
lybrary wrote: Gallaway's bio is inconsistent and incomplete in several ways. . . . or his bio is not entirely correct or complete..

So, like Smith's account to Gardner, it is a story which you can pick the parts that you like, and say they are accurate, and the parts you don't like, you can say they are wrong.
[N.B., jkeyes1000: tell me again how logic like this is superior and rational?]

Additionally many circuses wintered in the same towns. Peru in Indiana was called the circus capital of the world because so many circuses wintered there. That means all those circus folks could easily meet after the summer season was over.

Which is irrelevant to Edward Gallaway, since we only know of him working circuses in summers.


I am sure I don't need to inform you of this, but logically ruling something out (like the possibility of a man over 5'7" tall being Erdnase) is acceptable, because it is understood that we are not speaking in terms of absolute truth, but rather likelihood, after having thoroughly examined the evidence.

What is unacceptable is the emotional attempt to disparage a logical argument that you simply don't like, and passionately advance your own cause by appealing to prejudice, sympathy, or anything other than Logic Itself.

I have no problem with Chris making a logical conclusion. It is perfectly fair. I have a serious problem with those that argue "from the heart", or with over-weening pride in their theories, who battle viciously in order to justify all the time and labour that they have invested in this matter. They tend to be irrational, hypocritical, and far too certain of their opinions. They seem to believe that their subjective feelings render their arguments superior. That is far more obnoxious to me than level-headed acceptance of an hypothesis.

All practitioners of logic will admit that they can be wrong. I have seen Chris concede this many times. Tell me, Bill--How often have you confessed your fallibility in this forum? Or Bob? Or Leonard? Or Roger? A few times, maybe. But not nearly as many as Chris. I think he is far more deserving of respect for his reasonable attitude than most of the critics.

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Roger M. » April 23rd, 2018, 12:00 pm

lybrary wrote:..... why would he not socialize with other circus folks? Why would he not begin to write EATCT? Why would he not gamble and practice his cards?


Because beyond simply owning a copy of a book that he was involved in printing, there is absolutely no reason on earth to suspect Gallaway of ever holding a deck of cards in his hands in the first place, no reason to suspect him of ever gambling in his lifetime, and perhaps most importantly ... there is zero evidence of Gallaway having any skills whatsoever with a deck of cards.

None.

The Gallaway/Erdnase story is essentially a convoluted web of manipulations, fabrications and outright lies.

Beyond the failed efforts to put a deck of cards in Gallaway's hands, the Gallaway story is completely empty of card play, it's devoid of any gambling ... which all makes sense when one takes note that Gallaway is now a completely debunked candidate for Erdnase.

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby lybrary » April 23rd, 2018, 12:14 pm

Roger M. wrote:Because beyond simply owning a copy of a book that he was involved in printing, there is absolutely no reason on earth to suspect Gallaway of ever holding a deck of cards in his hands in the first place, no reason to suspect him of ever gambling in his lifetime, and perhaps most importantly ... there is zero evidence of Gallaway having any skills whatsoever with a deck of cards.

None.

The Gallaway/Erdnase story is essentially a convoluted web of manipulations, fabrications and outright lies.

Beyond the failed efforts to put a deck of cards in Gallaway's hands, the Gallaway story is completely empty of card play, it's devoid of any gambling ... which all makes sense when one takes note that Gallaway is now a completely debunked candidate for Erdnase.
That all changed because I did last week find a record of Gallaway playing cards - very skillfully I should add. See my upcoming newsletter.
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Roger M. » April 23rd, 2018, 12:20 pm

jkeyes1000 wrote:All practitioners of logic will admit that they can be wrong. I have seen Chris concede this many times. Tell me, Bill--How often have you confessed your fallibility in this forum? Or Bob? Or Leonard? Or Roger? A few times, maybe. But not nearly as many as Chris. I think he is far more deserving of respect for his reasonable attitude than most of the critics.


Nobody here wants to "get personal" with you ... something you might want to keep in mind.

This is a thread about the search for Erdnase, nobody has offered you an invitation to practice amateur psychological analysis.

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Roger M. » April 23rd, 2018, 12:27 pm

lybrary wrote:
Roger M. wrote:Because beyond simply owning a copy of a book that he was involved in printing, there is absolutely no reason on earth to suspect Gallaway of ever holding a deck of cards in his hands in the first place, no reason to suspect him of ever gambling in his lifetime, and perhaps most importantly ... there is zero evidence of Gallaway having any skills whatsoever with a deck of cards.

None.

The Gallaway/Erdnase story is essentially a convoluted web of manipulations, fabrications and outright lies.

Beyond the failed efforts to put a deck of cards in Gallaway's hands, the Gallaway story is completely empty of card play, it's devoid of any gambling ... which all makes sense when one takes note that Gallaway is now a completely debunked candidate for Erdnase.
That all changed because I did last week find a record of Gallaway playing cards - very skillfully I should add. See my upcoming newsletter.


I've indicated on multiple occasions that I read your newsletter Chris, and I'll certainly be reading this upcoming edition.
That you've been championing Gallaway for years now without any evidence whatsoever of having picked up a deck of cards sort of sullies discussion of his ever having picked up a deck ... but I'll keep an open mind.

Please confirm that this is indeed actual evidence of Gallaway with a deck of cards in his hands ... and not some strange assemblage of writings, events and presumed occurrences that you've then spun into Gallaway with a deck of cards in his hands, a fanciful interpretation as it were?

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby jkeyes1000 » April 23rd, 2018, 1:00 pm

Roger M. wrote:
jkeyes1000 wrote:All practitioners of logic will admit that they can be wrong. I have seen Chris concede this many times. Tell me, Bill--How often have you confessed your fallibility in this forum? Or Bob? Or Leonard? Or Roger? A few times, maybe. But not nearly as many as Chris. I think he is far more deserving of respect for his reasonable attitude than most of the critics.


Nobody here wants to "get personal" with you ... something you might want to keep in mind.

This is a thread about the search for Erdnase, nobody has offered you an invitation to practice amateur psychological analysis.


Actually--Bill did ask me to tell him again why I believe that Chris is more rational. To which I responded by saying that he keeps his emotions under control better than most of you. To which you responded by being snippy and deflecting. Good show, Old Boy!

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Roger M. » April 23rd, 2018, 1:39 pm

jkeyes1000 wrote:
Roger M. wrote:
This is a thread about the search for Erdnase, nobody has offered you an invitation to practice amateur psychological analysis.


........To which you responded by being snippy and deflecting......


Once again: "...nobody has offered you an invitation to practice amateur psychological analysis"

Thanks.

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Brad Henderson » April 23rd, 2018, 1:53 pm

the man who told us audiences would know a magician is lying without him or her being incompetent is now positioning himself as an expert on logic.

these two are made for each other.

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby performer » April 23rd, 2018, 2:03 pm

I saw a lecture yesterday by someone who said it was perfectly acceptable and even desirable for a magician to lie. I can't remember who it was since I hardly watch lectures since they bore the crap out of me. After all, I know everything already.

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby jkeyes1000 » April 23rd, 2018, 2:43 pm

Brad Henderson wrote:the man who told us audiences would know a magician is lying without him or her being incompetent is now positioning himself as an expert on logic.

these two are made for each other.


Only someone inept at logic would imply that there were something dubious in my interpretation of it. Weren't you the one that was ridiculing Chris, with the "it could happen" remark? Well, it seems that you are relying on that faith when it comes to questioning my philosophic wit.

So long as you don't bother to specify any errors in my statement, you can always imagine that they could exist.

But, logically, one must wonder why you haven't the time to be concise, though you clearly have more than enough in which to prattle on suggestively.

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Bob Coyne » April 23rd, 2018, 3:16 pm

jkeyes1000 wrote:All practitioners of logic will admit that they can be wrong. I have seen Chris concede this many times. Tell me, Bill--How often have you confessed your fallibility in this forum? Or Bob? Or Leonard? Or Roger? A few times, maybe. But not nearly as many as Chris. I think he is far more deserving of respect for his reasonable attitude than most of the critics.

I don't like responding to this sort of trolling, but in my very last interaction with Chris, I conceded that "Ok, fine. I guess you are consistent with your narrative" when I had earlier claimed that he wasn't. And I think everyone you name has admitted mistakes when warranted.

I don't think you should confuse disagreement and pointing out flaws in his evidence or logic with unwillingness to concede when wrong.

The more serious problem is that Chris is frequently very insulting and uncivil (not to mention dogmatic in how he expresses his beliefs), often when not even provoked. And that just leads to people respond in kind. I think that's an incontrovertible fact.
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Brad Henderson » April 23rd, 2018, 3:16 pm

i made it very clear why you lack a logical perspective. That it took hundreds of posts to get through to you - and i doubt i did - only makes my case. You posted that people could possibly know something they couldn’t know - and your evidence was - because.

and now you enter another topic about which you know nothing.

the likelihood of galloway being erdnase is the same as someone keeping a bucket of rain water inside their house, ready to be fetched at the magician’s command.

could that happen?

sure.

and lizard people COULD be secretly ruling the world.

stick to something you know about - like alcoholism and poorly attempted British accents - or go back to the discount renn faire which rejected you.

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby jkeyes1000 » April 23rd, 2018, 4:04 pm

Brad Henderson wrote:i made it very clear why you lack a logical perspective. That it took hundreds of posts to get through to you - and i doubt i did - only makes my case. You posted that people could possibly know something they couldn’t know - and your evidence was - because.

and now you enter another topic about which you know nothing.

the likelihood of galloway being erdnase is the same as someone keeping a bucket of rain water inside their house, ready to be fetched at the magician’s command.

could that happen?

sure.

and lizard people COULD be secretly ruling the world.

stick to something you know about - like alcoholism and poorly attempted British accents - or go back to the discount renn faire which rejected you.


No, Brad--it doesn't "make your case" that I am illogical because I didn't agree with you. How could it? Applying logic, it must be equally right to accuse you of illogic for not seeing it my way.

Logic has a bad rep amongst exact scientists, because most folks do a shoddy job of it. Usually, they are not thorough enough. They rest content when they discover something they like. Don't bother to consider all sorts of possibilities that they are wrong. Dare their adversaries to find fault, thinking they are safe. Having faith in their correctness, they defend their "logic" like a fortress. This attitude is well known amongst debaters. You can doubt my experience all you wish, but trust me--I see more of that in you than I do in Chris. He is very good at logic, because he is a thorough researcher, a quite reasonable
thinker, and whatever his faults may be, he does not contradict himself at every turn (zig and zag) in an effort to attack everything his opponents say. He is consistent and true to his course. The rest of you are so committed to cynicism that you frequently compromise your own positions in order to undermine his (and mine). If this is your idea of logic, you weren't paying much attention when it was taught you.

Roger M.
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Roger M. » April 23rd, 2018, 4:26 pm

jkeyes1000 wrote:....Logic has a bad rep amongst exact scientists, because most folks do a shoddy job of it. Usually, they are not thorough enough. They rest content when they discover something they like. Don't bother to consider all sorts of possibilities that they are wrong. Dare their adversaries to find fault, thinking they are safe. Having faith in their correctness, they defend their "logic" like a fortress. This attitude is well known amongst debaters. You can doubt my experience all you wish, but trust me--I see more of that in you than I do in Chris. He is very good at logic, because he is a thorough researcher, a quite reasonable
thinker, and whatever his faults may be, he does not contradict himself at every turn (zig and zag) in an effort to attack everything his opponents say. He is consistent and true to his course. The rest of you are so committed to cynicism that you frequently compromise your own positions in order to undermine his (and mine). If this is your idea of logic, you weren't paying much attention when it was taught you.


What's this got to do with Erdnase? (besides nothing)

Your post is a bunch of off-topic gibberish of absolutely no value to this thread.

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Brad Jeffers
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Brad Jeffers » April 23rd, 2018, 5:05 pm

Well at least jkeyes maintains a good sense of humor.

In his praise of Chris
jkeyes1000 wrote:He keeps his emotions under control better than most of you.

:lol:

British wit.
I love it!

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jkeyes1000
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby jkeyes1000 » April 23rd, 2018, 5:30 pm

Roger M. wrote:
jkeyes1000 wrote:....Logic has a bad rep amongst exact scientists, because most folks do a shoddy job of it. Usually, they are not thorough enough. They rest content when they discover something they like. Don't bother to consider all sorts of possibilities that they are wrong. Dare their adversaries to find fault, thinking they are safe. Having faith in their correctness, they defend their "logic" like a fortress. This attitude is well known amongst debaters. You can doubt my experience all you wish, but trust me--I see more of that in you than I do in Chris. He is very good at logic, because he is a thorough researcher, a quite reasonable
thinker, and whatever his faults may be, he does not contradict himself at every turn (zig and zag) in an effort to attack everything his opponents say. He is consistent and true to his course. The rest of you are so committed to cynicism that you frequently compromise your own positions in order to undermine his (and mine). If this is your idea of logic, you weren't paying much attention when it was taught you.


What's this got to do with Erdnase? (besides nothing)

Your post is a bunch of off-topic gibberish of absolutely no value to this thread.


That is the second time you have falsely accused me of offering unsolicited opinions. The first, a response to Bill. This, to Brad.

As if offering unsolicited opinions were against the rules. Whose rules--yours?

And on top of that, you (like Brad) dodge the brunt of my argument and instead question my qualifications. Wouldn't it be fine if you could be as cynical as you want to be, and prohibit others from taking a swipe at you? If this were a Mutual Admiration Society? What fun!

All you are doing is playing Top Dog, and all you are using is attitude. Is that a sort of "earned privilege" in The Forum?

Brad Henderson
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Brad Henderson » April 23rd, 2018, 5:33 pm

ah, the self proclaimed master debater.

yes, tell us about how chris never contradicts himself again.

no wait - don’t. I may never breathe again.

performer
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby performer » April 23rd, 2018, 5:43 pm

There are nine people who will never breathe again in Toronto if you look at the news. It puts into perspective the stupidity of this vitriol over the identity of a long dead author of a book written about 100 years ago.

Brad Henderson
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Brad Henderson » April 23rd, 2018, 6:15 pm

performer wrote:There are nine people who will never breathe again in Toronto if you look at the news..


that’s a hell of a lot of pressure. how will i know if i need to take an umbrella?

performer
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby performer » April 23rd, 2018, 6:26 pm

Oddly enough the weather is quite good here now despite all the dead bodies lying all over the sidewalk.

Carlo Morpurgo
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Carlo Morpurgo » April 23rd, 2018, 8:23 pm

jkeyes1000 wrote:All practitioners of logic will admit that they can be wrong. I have seen Chris concede this many times.


I must have missed something.... can you point out a few examples?

Regarding logic, with enough time at hand, and with enough skills in rhetoric, arguing, debating, etc., I claim that you can always find ways to "stay alive", so to speak. The winner of the debate is not necessarily the person who is right, unfortunately (for the winner).

Roger M.
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Roger M. » April 23rd, 2018, 8:39 pm

jkeyes1000 wrote:
All you are doing is playing Top Dog, and all you are using is attitude. Is that a sort of "earned privilege" in The Forum?


I have no privilege whatsoever on the forum, earned or otherwise ... but I do stay on topic (unlike you), and am demonstrably interested in the actual subject matter of this thread (unlike you).

You, in contrast, are completely uninterested in the search for S.W. Erdnase (although you seem very interested in Chris W.), and go wandering about the Genii Forum inserting yourself in subjects you have absolutely zero interest in ... but somehow believe you can get a lengthy argument out of.

It's bizarre posting behaviour to say the least.
If you're on some form of medication, please let us know ... it would explain a lot.

Leonard Hevia
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Favorite Magician: Dai Vernon, Frank Garcia, Slydini, Houdini,
Location: Gaithersburg, Md.

Re: ERDNASE

Postby Leonard Hevia » April 23rd, 2018, 9:07 pm

Bob Coyne wrote:Also, in Marty Demarest's article, he suggests that Sanders could have met Houdini when Houdini was on tour and performed in Butte Montana (Sander's occasional home town) in the 1890s. Houdini had a diary note about being scheduled to perform there. And he also left behind an autographed picture.


The autographed picture left behind is an interesting piece of information that tells me quite a bit. This must have happened in 1899 when Houdini made his breakthrough in vaudeville under Beck. He began to perform in the more prestigious theaters of the Orpheum Circuit out in western states and on the West Coast. His star began rising and naturally he would believe it necessary to begin shooting publicity photos meant for distribution. In July of that year he stopped by the Bushnell Company in San Francisco and had himself photographed in various manacles. These were first set of publicity photos he had made wearing handcuffs and leg irons.

By mid October after his Denver engagement and two weeks before his next engagement in Chicago, Houdini could have stopped thru Montana. There must have been a stack of publicity photos in his trunk waiting to be autographed and given away.


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