ERDNASE

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Roger M.
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Roger M. » February 27th, 2016, 10:03 am

Just a guess, but looking at the cover material and the font used on it, I'd posit that this is a much later re-binding effort, presumably of one of the Drake hardcovers.

John Bodine
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby John Bodine » March 1st, 2016, 1:30 pm

The book that was recently mentioned and which is for sale on eBay states it is a 1934 Drake. The only variant I am aware of printed by Drake in 1934 was issued in orange wraps and contained 178pp. The address would have been 179 N. Michigan. There were likely 2 variants printed (approximately) that year, one including the date and another that did not include the date.

The copy that is for sale is almost certainly a rebound copy.

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Jeff Pierce Magic » March 18th, 2016, 8:31 am

As a side note I just purchased Tom's book "Rethinking Erdnase" and I understand that there are only 7 copies left. I urge you to pick up your copy now as they will be gone very soon.

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Ben James 1
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Ben James 1 » March 19th, 2016, 3:35 am

Hi Jeff,

Where do I purchase a copy of 'Rethinking Erdnase' - can you please supply the link?

Ben

Tom Sawyer
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Tom Sawyer » March 19th, 2016, 4:41 am

I think I better step in for a moment.

Anyone interested in possibly purchasing a copy of Rethinking S.W. Erdnase may write to me at this email address (first modifying it appropriately):

erdnase 2016 at gmail dot com

If I still have copies available for sale, I will send you a PayPal link.

I hope to post another post here in the near future with a few other observations.

--Tom Sawyer
At least for the time being, I have taken down my S.W. Erdnase blog.

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Tom Sawyer » March 21st, 2016, 4:14 am

Hi All,

My most recent post above was a little on the laconic side.

Because the sales of the first printing of my new Erdnase book seem to be winding down -- though, hey, it could literally take months to sell another 5 or 10 copies -- I thought I might toss out a few comments in light of that.

The “7 copies” Jeff refers to above are copies that are available for purchase from me at this time. I am not sure of the exact number, but that’s a decent approximation. (Jeff, thank you for the post.)

I received I think 104 copies of the first printing from the printer, so there were not exactly tons to start out with.

I imagine that if there is a sustained demand or related favorable conditions -- something I see no sign of at the moment -- I would consider reprinting it.

But now that the Erdnase book is kind of out of my system, I have pretty thoroughly moved on to other things.

As far as reaction to the book goes, in reality I have heard almost nothing to speak of. There are two people who are well known in magic circles who did write to me at considerable length about it, and who said little if anything (to me!) that I would call negative. I don’t want to mention their names here, though, because I do not have their permission to do so, and besides it would seem like bragging. And I guess this is bragging in any event, but I don’t really intend it that way.

One guy did criticize one aspect of the book rather harshly. C’est la vie, c’est la guerre. I have never really been afflicted with the malady of expecting to please everyone. At least, not after the appearance of my Notes on Sir Arthur Conan Doyle back in the early 1970s. Or more accurately, that one may have taught me that I had better get used to disappointment.

Quite a while ago on this thread, “mam” said some very nice things about Rethinking S.W. Erdnase, things which I did not say thanks for at the time, simply because I felt that if I did so it would have seemed like a transparent effort to market the book. (Like, “Thanks for the comments, yeah, but especially thanks for giving me the opportunity to promote my book again! Step right up! Supplies are limited! Act now!”) But I did very much appreciate mam's comments!

I guess that’s it for this post! To each person who has purchased a copy of the book, thank you!

--Tom Sawyer
At least for the time being, I have taken down my S.W. Erdnase blog.

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Bill Mullins » March 21st, 2016, 10:23 am

Tom Sawyer wrote:Quite a while ago on this thread, “mam” said some very nice things about Rethinking S.W. Erdnase, things which I did not say thanks for at the time, simply because I felt that if I did so it would have seemed like a transparent effort to market the book. (Like, “Thanks for the comments, yeah, but especially thanks for giving me the opportunity to promote my book again!


There's nothing wrong with marketing (transparently or otherwise) your book. I wish, in fact, that you had done more marketing on some of your previous efforts -- they came and went without me knowing about them, and I never got a chance to buy them (which I would have).

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Scott Lane » March 27th, 2016, 7:23 pm

It looks like something is happening on the Erdnase front. Check out this website:

http://www.onepaganlaw.org

It looks like he is walking from Texas to a place called swerdnase park.

If you go to Google Earth it is listed.

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby pixsmith » March 28th, 2016, 10:11 am

That is interesting, in many ways.

That location is in Paris Texas, which is northeast of the Dallas area. The contact phone is actually listed in a book sale here on the Genii forum, so it's a magician of sorts undertaking this quest. I've watched less interesting and more cryptic TV premises, so I may check it out over time.

Thanks for the heads up. I would never have run across it otherwise!

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby observer » March 28th, 2016, 11:05 am

pixsmith wrote: Paris Texas,


Great movie, by the way.

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Richard Kaufman » March 30th, 2016, 8:44 pm

Someone pass the nuts. There's a movie on tonight.
Subscribe today to Genii Magazine

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby lybrary » June 16th, 2016, 3:19 pm

I made a huge find regarding Edward Gallaway. I found a feature article on him which

1) gives us a new photo of him
2) confirms several things we already knew or deduced
3) expands and strengthens other aspects which are important for Erdnasehood
4) provides three more pieces of new information which are highly relevant and directly apply to Erdnase and the book he wrote, including further information of why he may have chosen the name Erdnase.
5) A wealth of other information about his life which at least for now does not directly apply to Erdnase, but is interesting nevertheless.

All of this will be revealed in my upcoming newsletter. Make sure to read it :-)
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Roger M.
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Roger M. » June 16th, 2016, 6:44 pm

#4 looks quite interesting, and has my curiosity piqued.

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby mam » June 17th, 2016, 3:53 am

Very interesting, looking forward to it!

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Joe Mckay » June 17th, 2016, 10:59 am

Sounds good, Chris!

I said on The Conjure Nation, in a thread about Erdnase, that you should never bet against Chris Wasshuber when he gets his teeth stuck into a project. He is super smart and super relentless.

I hope you prove me right!

Joe

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Jack Shalom » June 22nd, 2016, 9:30 am

Chris W. has released some new information about Galloway in today's newsletter that, in my opinion, certainly adds to his case. Worth looking at if you haven't seen it yet.

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Jeff Pierce Magic » June 22nd, 2016, 10:52 am

Detectives almost always look first at family and friends of family when it comes to a personal crime. Chris is attempting to prove that adage correct with Gallaway. If he can back up these claims with something substantial then Gallaway might move to the top of the list for me.
Good work Chris.
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Joe Mckay » June 22nd, 2016, 12:07 pm

Futility Closet is a great little site that publishes curious facts, interesting stories, paradoxes, fascinating trivia and puzzles every day. It is probably the best place on the web for this sort of thing since the quality is so high:

http://www.futilitycloset.com

Anyway - I came across the following post (about a magic square) and was intrigued by the name, WS Andrews:

http://www.futilitycloset.com/2010/12/31/bewitched/

I did some googling and on Magicpedia I found this:

William Symes Andrews (1847-1929)

William Symes Andrews, a American electrical engineer who wrote a book on Magic Squares, published in Chicago in 1908 by the Open Court publishing company (who also published Evans OLD AND NEW MAGIC). He is much older than recalled by Marshall Smith, but Al Flosso seemed to have thought he was Erdnase.


So it is a contender that others have already considered. But the reason I mention it is because of the quote you can find in the post above:

W.S. Andrews wrote, “Considering its constructive origin and interesting features, this square, notwithstanding its simplicity, may be fairly said to present one of the most remarkable illustrations of the intrinsic harmony of numbers.”


It is that quote that caught my eye. Is it just me or does that not sound like Erdnase?
Last edited by Joe Mckay on June 22nd, 2016, 12:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Roger M.
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Roger M. » June 22nd, 2016, 12:12 pm

I'm not sure discussion is possible (or even desired) when the author concludes his article with the sentence "Erdnase has been found!".

Having said that, I'll try.

Chris has definitely advanced Gallaway as a candidate with his latest findings, however this advance is still constrained by the less than rigorous crediting provided for the reader.
I don't doubt Chris has the appropriate bibliography to support his many claims, but that information is not provided in this article.

Further causing confusion for the reader are highly personal interpretations made in one sentence, only to be repeated as unassailable facts in the next sentence.

With the information provided to date, and considering the overall lack of rigorously supported details, Gallaway remains an interesting candidate, and this latest information Chris has uncovered has indeed advanced his standing ... but (for me) Gallaway is still only one of the top 5 or 6 candidates overall.

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Brad Jeffers » June 24th, 2016, 3:44 am

lybrary wrote:I made a huge find regarding Edward Gallaway. All of this will be revealed in my upcoming newsletter.
How can I get a copy of your newsletter, or better yet, would you post this information regarding Gallaway here?

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Jack Shalom » June 24th, 2016, 11:46 am


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Re: ERDNASE

Postby lybrary » June 28th, 2016, 12:45 pm

More on Erdnase/Gallaway in this weeks Lybrary.com newsletter. It will be published tomorrow Wednesday. If you do not already count yourself among one of the 9000 subscribers of the Lybrary.com magic newsletter and you want to read my weekly offering, venting, commenting and other stuff, then do the following:

1) Create a customer account by registering here https://www.lybrary.com/create_account.php
2) While on that form check the magic newsletter box.

Then you can login to your Lybrary account and go to your newsletters. There you will find the last 10 issues available online. This allows you to read the one from last week which also had a lot of new info on Gallaway. The advantage of registering a Lybrary.com customer account is that you have access to the last 10 newsletters. You can also simply subscribe to the newsletter, but you will only get the new ones, not the one from the past.
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby lybrary » July 2nd, 2016, 10:06 pm

My next newsletter will explore

- the Harto/Gallaway connection
- the Dalrymple/Gallaway connection
- a remarkable match in writing style between Erdnase and Gallaway
- a comparison of the covers of EATCT and the Gallaway books with new insights and parallels
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Bill Mullins » July 3rd, 2016, 10:20 am

lybrary wrote:I made a huge find regarding Edward Gallaway. I found a feature article on him . . .


I (like many others, I'm sure) would like to read this article. Will you make it available?

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby lybrary » July 3rd, 2016, 2:03 pm

Bill, your reputation of finding stuff is on the line :-)

As I mentioned in my newsletter, the article will be reproduced in its entirety in my upcoming book "The Hunt for Erdnase". (Sorry, I don't have a release date yet.) We also found a show program and show commentaries where Gallaway arranged and performed a piece titled "The Magic Wand". Based on these new findings I am following several new leads which could provide even more new information. But if you read my newsletter and follow along you will learn of some of the new and exciting findings before my book is released. For example, in the upcoming newsletter I will provide a direct quote from the article that will prove an important linguistic argument I have been making for a long time.
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Bill Mullins » July 6th, 2016, 11:04 am

Chris's newest newsletter is out. In it, while discussing the connection between Gallaway and the circus, he points out that the trick in Erdnase "The Acrobatic Jacks" has a circus-themed patter. He says, "I have not been able to find any prior published record of this effect or its patter. It may very well be original with Erdnase/Gallaway."

The effect was previously published as "The Congenial Aces" by Sachs, in Sleight of Hand. It starts on page 102 of the Dover edition, which is a reprint of the second (1885) edition.

It can be found online here.

I trust my reputation is somewhat restored.

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Bill Mullins » July 6th, 2016, 11:54 am

Busby/Whaley give a detailed history of the trick:
Essentially a transposition between the two colors of a Four of a
Kind, this effect had already achieved classic status by 1902. Normally
performed with the Aces, this is a presentation piece for the skilled
performer, relying entirely on the Shift — both one-handed and
two-handed — as the singular method. The rudimentary version first
saw print in Decremps (1789). One of the earlier appearances in
English is in Williams (1859). From Williams it passed into the
literature, appearing in Hoffmann (1876), Sachs (1877), a much
expanded explanation in Sachs (1885), Kunard (1888), and Hoffmann
(1889). This last Hoffmann appearance is probably the source for the
method and Harte's presentation, as it includes patter about trained
cards that parallels the patter in The Expert. The routine is 100%
Harte.

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Roger M. » July 6th, 2016, 12:18 pm

Your reputation was never in question Bill.

Besides the error pointed out by Bill in the above post, I have a hard time trying to decide how I should take Chris's "discoveries", both in the fact that he's not posting them to the Genii Erdnase thread, but is instead trying to drive traffic to his newsletter, and additionally in the fact that posts such as my own require folks to go to the newsletter to read the details of what's being commented on.

I had difficulty getting past the mid-point of the newsletter, when Chris suddenly, and without any support whatsoever ... decides to put forth a theory that the comment made linking Erdnase to Dalrymple suddenly be altered to consider that Dalrymple wasn't mentioned at all, but that
Walter H. Gallaway was the name mentioned simply because he too was a political cartoonist (which indeed he was).
There's nothing at all to support this, and yet it's presented as if it's one of Chris's "discoveries" (although to be fair, Chris doesn't say this did happen, but that it's his "personal favorite possibility".)

The previous newsletter had some additional, and new information ... but this current newsletter is really just comprised of Chris's personal comments and theories, most lacking any bibliography or background ... just presented as if they were facts to be accepted by the reader.
I'm not personally comfortable being asked by a writer to take such massive leaps of faith.

Additionally, and although it may be my own personal take on the comparison, Chris links to some photos of Gallaway's book covers, and strongly implies a design similarity to EATCT. I simply don't see anything at all to support this comparison, but these things being subjective, maybe it's just me.

I don't know how one responds to comments that make comparisons, and then present that compariston as supporting evidence ... only to have the reader look at the comparison and think "they're nothing at all alike, and have nothing to do with each other".

This latest newsletter remains a highly personal effort from Chris to put forth support his candidate. Less successful that the previous newsletter, this latest newsletter offers nothing new, and of substance to further support Gallaway as a candidate.

Personally, and although posters to this thread obviously don't always agree with each other, I'd like to see the Gallaway conversation take place (if it's going to take place at all) in the actual Genii/Erdnase thread, rather than using this thread in an effort to drive traffic to a completely different website.

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Bill Mullins » July 6th, 2016, 12:35 pm

Roger M. wrote: Besides the error pointed out by Bill in the above post,

I don't see it so much as an error, as simply Chris was unaware of previously published versions of the trick.

I have a hard time trying to decide how I should take Chris's "discoveries", both in the fact that he's not posting them to the Genii Erdnase thread, but is instead trying to drive traffic to his newsletter, and additionally in the fact that posts such as my own require folks to go to the newsletter to read the details of what's being commented on.


Recall that Chris is assembling a book, which he plans on selling. While I too would like to see the discussion play out here, I can't blame a businessman for doing things in the interests of his business.

I had difficulty getting past the mid-point of the newsletter, when Chris suddenly, and without any support whatsoever ... decides to put forth a theory that the comment made linking Erdnase to Dalrymple suddenly be altered to consider that Dalrymple wasn't mentioned at all, but that Walter H. Gallaway was the name mentioned simply because he too was a political cartoonist (which indeed he was).


The W. H. Gallaway theory is supposition and speculation, not evidence. And at this late date, there is no way to do anything about it. You either have faith in Chris's theories, or you don't. But since Gallaway's name has been raised, here is a photograph of him. He had a vaudeville comedy cartoonist act for a few years before he died in 1911.

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby lybrary » July 6th, 2016, 1:16 pm

Thank you for the trick references, but none seem to share the circus theme of acrobatic jacks doing somersaults and performances of trained animals. That means the patter/theme looks like it is original with Erdnase. Busby attributed that circus theme to Harto, because he performed for circuses. However, Gallaway had a three year circus career of his own and thus a nice match with his own life. One more coincidence some will have to explain away :-)

One new fact of this week's newsletter was that Busby characterized Erdnase's writing as "polysyllabic and Latinate words". We find an almost identical characterization in the Gallaway profile as: "He enjoys the sound of polysyllables and full-phrased sentences." I find this hugely relevant since very few agree with me and Olsson that Gallaway writes very much like Erdnase.
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby lybrary » July 6th, 2016, 1:29 pm

Regarding my Darlymple/Gallaway conjecture I don't find it difficult to assume that Smith may have erroneously exchanged Dalrymple with Gallaway after 45 years of not thinking about it. Both illustrators worked for Puck around the same time. What are the odds that there is indeed a political cartoonist working for Puck at exactly the right time who shares an uncommon second name with somebody who very much could be Erdnase? The chances of that happening are so slim that it makes Smith's error likely. On top of this we do not have any other candidate who has any real Dalrymple connection to offer.
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Joe Mckay » July 6th, 2016, 1:47 pm

Maybe it is wishful thinking. But I see a similarity between the covers of the Gallaway book and the first edition of the Erdnase book.

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Roger M. » July 6th, 2016, 2:15 pm

Bill Mullins wrote:
The W. H. Gallaway theory is supposition and speculation, not evidence.


I probably have to do a better job of remembering this when posting to this thread.

I'd still prefer the discussion to take place within this thread if just for posterity, and to be clear, I fully folks advertising their books in this thread, indeed this is where I was made aware of Hurt's book, Tom's book, TMWWE, etc.

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Bill Mullins » July 6th, 2016, 2:19 pm

I don't see characterizations of Gallaway and Erdnase as polysyllabic writers as meaning much, in that it is so difficult to write anything of substance monosyllabically. Everyone writes polysyllabically.

As a thought experiment, though . . . .

See Dick play cards. See Dick bet!

Watch Dick. Watch Dick do the shift. Can you see it?

Pete sees Dick. Pete has a club.

Oh no! Watch Pete break Dick's wrist!

Dick now has to learn the Charlier pass!

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby lybrary » July 6th, 2016, 10:09 pm

Something for the anagramists among you. Since Gallaway's fluency in German is well established (primarily because he was the typesetter for a German newspaper) Olsson and myself bounced around some German anagrams for Erdnase. The one we both like best is

S.W. Erdnase = Ass werden (which means: become an ace)

The meaning here could be - read my book and become an ace (in card play). And if you don't, you will make an ass of yourself :-)
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Rick Ruhl » July 7th, 2016, 12:16 am

I decided to run S.W erdnase through one of the online anagram converters.

A couple stood out on me which I thought was interesting :

Sanders we

And....

Read news .

Wouldn't it be funny if the joke was on us and it really was read news mixed up?

Then I went back and saw this one .

As Ed Wrens

Uhhhhh

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby lybrary » July 7th, 2016, 6:11 am

'read news' is missing the second s. So perhaps 'reads news' which would fit Gallaway, the newspaper man (learned the printers trade at the Delphos Weekly Herald, typeset for a German newspaper in Indiana, established and ran his own weekly newspaper in Alabama).
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Roger M. » July 7th, 2016, 5:58 pm

A. Reds News
Sad News Re
Ads News Re
As Red News

... BUT - there are also many other possibilities anagramtically in S.W. Erdnase, both fully and partially:
Sews (tailor?)
Sewn
Reads (proof reader)
Sewer
Drawn (artist)
Wands Seer (magician)
Earns (banker)
Snare (trapper)
Wears (model)
Seed (farmer)

How seriously do you take this kind of rabbit hole? ... and how far does it make sense to follow it down?
Last edited by Roger M. on July 7th, 2016, 6:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Rick Ruhl » July 7th, 2016, 6:04 pm

The only thing that stood out to me was The As Ed Wrens..

For a book title author that would fit , exchange the "as"for a "by"

And then all of us go, who the hell is Ed wrens? Lol

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby lybrary » July 7th, 2016, 6:40 pm

I personally don't think any of these anagramatical exercises make a lot of sense. But they are fun nevertheless. To throw a few more curve balls here is fodder for the letter combinators:

- Harto's wife's family name was Wren (see Rick's As Ed Wrens anagram)
- She was also referred to as Miss Verda (close to W. Erdna...)
- Harto used a girl named Edna for the living half-lady (Edna almost Erdna..)

The more you throw into the mixer the more hits and close hits you will get. I don't think any real insight will ever come from any of this.
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