ERDNASE

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Bill Mullins
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Bill Mullins » October 12th, 2015, 1:08 am

Does anyone know if this includes the entire text of Erdnase?

Richard Hatch
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Richard Hatch » October 12th, 2015, 5:17 pm

Bill Mullins wrote:Does anyone know if this includes the entire text of Erdnase?

That's my understanding. The image of Vernon is made up out of the text of EATCT. No illustrations, just the text. Whether it includes the preface, table of contents, etc., I don't know, but I assume so. An usual edition of EATCT!

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Brad Jeffers
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Brad Jeffers » October 12th, 2015, 5:19 pm

I asked Dan Frederickson about this, and he said that it does indeed contain the entire text of the book.
So if you are a collector of the various editions of Erdnase, I guess this would count as one.

Tom Sawyer
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Tom Sawyer » October 12th, 2015, 5:44 pm

Maybe the next step is a T-shirt with the entire text (if that has not been done already). A close relative of mine has a T-shirt with The Three Musketeers -- not the whole text, but a lot of it. (The book is quite long.) I think texts (or partial texts) of a number of books have been issued that way.
At least for the time being, I have taken down my S.W. Erdnase blog.

Pete McCabe
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Pete McCabe » October 12th, 2015, 11:11 pm

I have a t-shirt with "The Raven" on it, but even that is not the entire text.

Todd Karr
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More Info on Andrews Soon

Postby Todd Karr » October 16th, 2015, 12:40 am

Thank you to Richard Hatch and Richard Wiseman for great leads, suggestions, and support. Hopefully, all the Erdnase scholars here downloaded my Erdnase documents while I had them up. I've since found more strong evidence about Charles E. Andrews, including more about his gambling, and I will keep you posted when I've written up more of the story.

Todd Karr
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Charles E. Andrews' Grave

Postby Todd Karr » October 17th, 2015, 5:52 pm

The Charles E. Andrews I've been researching is buried in Patton Cemetary in Laporte, Indiana, Lot W, N-4, Plains 237.

Bill Mullins
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Bill Mullins » October 18th, 2015, 1:21 am

One of the articles shared by Todd is from the Chicago Inter-Ocean of 8/27/1907. It includes a picture of what presumably is Charles Andrews's handwriting.

Of likely no relevance whatever, but interesting to me, is the second line of the letter. It includes a glyph for the word "and", where it is written diagonally downwards on the line, almost as small as a single character. Why is this worth mentioning? Because the only other place I've ever seen this is in the handwriting of Dai Vernon!

performer
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby performer » October 18th, 2015, 4:41 am

Bill Mullins wrote:One of the articles shared by Todd is from the Chicago Inter-Ocean of 8/27/1907. It includes a picture of what presumably is Charles Andrews's handwriting.

Of likely no relevance whatever, but interesting to me, is the second line of the letter. It includes a glyph for the word "and", where it is written diagonally downwards on the line, almost as small as a single character. Why is this worth mentioning? Because the only other place I've ever seen this is in the handwriting of Dai Vernon!


I told you............................

Todd Karr
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Handwriting is by the lady

Postby Todd Karr » October 18th, 2015, 9:53 am

Hi, Bill: The handwriting is Inda Ethel Blaine's, although the words are Andrews'. He was dictating to her at the time he shot her, as detailed in many of the articles.

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Charles Andrews in Showbiz

Postby Todd Karr » October 18th, 2015, 9:55 am

Charles Andrews was in showbiz early in his career. I've uncovered several articles and notices about his tours, and of course at the end he absconded with money and disappeared.

Bill Mullins
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Re: Handwriting is by the lady

Postby Bill Mullins » October 18th, 2015, 11:26 am

Todd Karr wrote:Hi, Bill: The handwriting is Inda Ethel Blaine's, although the words are Andrews'. He was dictating to her at the time he shot her, as detailed in many of the articles.


Thanks, Todd. I've downloaded your articles, but haven't studied them. The whole business with Gallaway and Thompson over the last few months has sucked some of the Erdnase wind from my sails, and I haven't dived in like I normally would have. I spent too much time and energy arguing and not enough enjoying the discussion.

supremefiction
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby supremefiction » October 19th, 2015, 2:29 pm

Ask a Stupid Question Department: I'm only up to page 66 of 111 on this thread, but can someone let me know: How did we conclude definitively that S.W. Ernase is an anagram? Who first mentioned this, and when was is commonly agreed that this is the case?

Bill Mullins
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Bill Mullins » October 19th, 2015, 2:54 pm

Not at all a stupid question.

Leo Rullman, in The Sphinx Nov 1928, says "In this connection one must not forget that excellent treatise by W. S. Erdnase [sic] (E. S. Andrews), "The Expert at the Card Table," being an exposition of artifice, ruse and subterfuge at the gambling table."

This is the first place in print I know of that makes the Erdnase-Andrews connection.

Three months later (Sphinx Feb 1929), he writes: "It has been said that his real name was E. S. Andrews, which in reverse order produces the pen-name under which he wrote."

Rullman doesn't source this, so we don't know if it is a conclusion he came to, something that he was told second-hand, or if he had firm knowledge that this was the case. This was soon enough after publication of Expert, however, that if he were wrong, the author or someone who otherwise knew about the book could have corrected him.

Different people have different levels of confidence in the assertion. As you read through the thread, you'll see that Chris Wasshuber believes in a literal interpretation of the name. Advocates for W. E. Sanders believe it to be an anagram rather than a reversal. The origin of "Erdnase" as a pseudonym is not proven by any stretch, but I think that most people since Rullman have accepted what he said as probably true.

supremefiction
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby supremefiction » October 19th, 2015, 8:50 pm

Thanks for the helpful response!

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby lybrary » October 19th, 2015, 11:25 pm

Bill Mullins wrote:As you read through the thread, you'll see that Chris Wasshuber believes in a literal interpretation of the name.


That is not a particularly good characterization of what I believe. I believe that the reverse spelling theory - in the form where it is being interpreted as the real name of the author - has little merit. There are a number of other valid explanations for the name. Even if you want to go with E.S. Andrews then it is much more likely that this was a cover name of the author rather than his real name. It has to be, because Erdnase's real name was Edward Gallaway :-)
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Bill Mullins
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Bill Mullins » October 20th, 2015, 12:32 am

lybrary wrote:
Bill Mullins wrote:As you read through the thread, you'll see that Chris Wasshuber believes in a literal interpretation of the name.


That is not a particularly good characterization of what I believe.


My apologies, and I'm glad you stepped in to correct it.

Todd Karr
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Charles L. Andrews

Postby Todd Karr » October 20th, 2015, 3:03 am

Amidst a flood of new information I've found, literally hundreds of articles, it looks like Charles E. Andrews may have been itself an alias of Charles L. Andrews. Please note that I previously traced the name and age of Charles E. to another 1859-ish Midwest Charles E., whose father was an English editor, which sounded like a good fit. Proper history should mean not being attached to any outcome, just the facts, and it looks like Charles L. Andrews is the real name, and his birthdate was 1860.

If it turns out all this is correct, it also looks like I've uncovered his show business career, more of his words, some great connections to the Expert, a lot more colorful crimes, his family and many wives, and his Indiana gambling house. This man's life was truly spectacular: a smart cad with major flair.

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Bill Mullins » October 21st, 2015, 10:45 pm

Tom Sawyer is now taking ordersfor his upcoming Erdnase book.

And if you've got any money left, you might want this.

Todd Karr
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William G. Andrews

Postby Todd Karr » October 22nd, 2015, 12:03 am

I'm pretty sure I've got my man.

Charles L. Andrews aka Charles E. Andrews was later William G. Andrews, advance man for Alexander Herrmann, and wrote extensive articles describing card moves and effects in language and terms matching The Expert.

I'm arranging my hundreds of documents into a complete timeline with documentation.

Roger M.
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Roger M. » October 22nd, 2015, 12:13 am

I've got my order in for Rethinking Erdnase ... that first edition Bill linked to will have to wait.

Tom notes that he's only printing 100 copies, of which only about 80 will actually be for sale.

Roger M.
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Re: William G. Andrews

Postby Roger M. » October 22nd, 2015, 12:19 am

Todd Karr wrote:I'm pretty sure I've got my man.

Charles L. Andrews aka Charles E. Andrews was later William G. Andrews, advance man for Alexander Herrmann, and wrote extensive articles describing card moves and effects in language and terms matching The Expert.

I'm arranging my hundreds of documents into a complete timeline with documentation.


Will you be offering your own detailed editorial as well Todd, or only the documents and notes?

Not that the documents and notes aren't plenty ... but I've always enjoyed your writing, and there would certainly be interest in a book related your research?

Todd Karr
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Erdnase: The Book!

Postby Todd Karr » October 22nd, 2015, 1:14 am

Roger: There seem to be more Erdnase books than candidates these days (and yes, I ordered Tom Sawyer's, too!), but it will definitely take an entire book to properly tell this labyrinthine tale.

mam
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby mam » October 22nd, 2015, 11:42 am

This was launched today:

http://explore.chicagocollections.org

It's a joint effort by more or less all archival institutions in Chicago, to make their materials available online. I have not yet looked at it myself, just wanted all of you to know, since there may be all sorts of interesting things hiding in there. For example, among tens of thousands of images, you can filter on work activities such as "Printing".

Tom Sawyer
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Tom Sawyer » October 23rd, 2015, 4:15 am

The website mentioned by mam above is quite interesting. This post is based on information from that website.

This link appears to show a more-inclusive version of a picture mam posted on this thread a little while back.

It plainly shows a two-story building across the street from the Leiter II Building. From other informtion on this thread, I would assume that this building was torn down and the three-story building replaced it.

From the foregoing, it seems clear (to me) that Bill Mullins's analysis (in this post) of the photo was correct. (I had previously thought that the "mam" photo probably portrayed a three-story building.)

This link seems to me to show the same building from a different era (earlier, I suppose).

--Tom Sawyer
At least for the time being, I have taken down my S.W. Erdnase blog.

mam
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby mam » October 23rd, 2015, 4:29 am

Here are some nice pictures of people playing cards:

http://explore.chicagocollections.org/r ... ying+cards

:)

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby mam » October 23rd, 2015, 3:08 pm

Speaking of websites, I'd like to introduce what I've been working on the past month or so:

http://lookingforerdnase.com/

As it says in the introduction, and what I have commented on here in the thread before, is that I've been wanting to put current knowledge into some kind of structure. This is my own way of doing that, and I hope to build it out in the near future. Hopefully the website will be of use to all the readers of this thread as well, and maybe even to people outside it! ;)

New and noteworthy is information on the Chicago Book Binding Company, including their bankruptcy files which leads to (surprise!) Stillman B. Jamieson, and mentions one John E. Seinwerth – that name just has a certain ring to it… I've also picked up the bank account lead that was suggested a long time ago, in which Darwin Ortiz is said who have known someone who knew how to get the account info on the person who wrote the check to M. D. Smith, i.e. Erdnase. This is still work in progress, but I've posted my findings so far in its own section.

There is a single-page version of the entire forum thread that can also be filtered on username, and downloaded in various formats. I've posted that here before, but this is more robust and better formatted. There is also a separate page to track all sold first editions, based on what I've gathered from the forum, that can hopefully be made even more complete.

I'm probably forgetting stuff, so feel free to have a look yourself and let me know what you think!

My sincere thanks to Bill Mullins, Chris Wasshuber, Richard Hatch, and Tom Sawyer, for having a look at the website during its preview phase and giving me useful feedback.

Todd Karr
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Andrews Update

Postby Todd Karr » October 27th, 2015, 8:39 pm

I have now turned up thousands of documents and strong evidence covering Andrews' entire life, including his performing career, scams, crimes, aliases, associates, gambling, family, and photos. Court record requests are underway. I'm going ahead with a book which will include everything.

Roger M.
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Roger M. » October 30th, 2015, 4:01 pm

I'm sure you have a point ... I'm just having great difficulty determining what your point might be. I suspect I'm not alone.

It would be great if you could condense your thoughts into an actual editorial rather than the stream of consciousness you've been using to date ... I'm serious.

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Richard Kaufman
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Richard Kaufman » October 30th, 2015, 5:58 pm

Your posts are fine as they are, Sworn Lip(s).
Subscribe today to Genii Magazine

Roger M.
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Roger M. » October 30th, 2015, 6:46 pm

Yeah, I was serious.

Like I said, I find the stream of consciousness difficult to follow.

Scott Lane
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Scott Lane » October 30th, 2015, 7:01 pm

I do believe that Smith had a larger role in the Erdnase mystery than most researchers realize. There are many family ties that have not yet been published. For example, Mckinney was related to Andrews. Andrews was related to Seeley.
The check that Smith received was probably drawn from a bank that a family member worked. Many of these details will be released soon as will the sequel to The Expert at the Card Table.

Scott Edward Lane

Bill Mullins
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Bill Mullins » October 30th, 2015, 8:09 pm

Sworn (if I may be so familiar . . . ) -- Are you saying that Cobb was the card expert behind Expert? Or Betts? (and who was Betts?)

Bill Mullins
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Bill Mullins » October 31st, 2015, 10:14 am

Thanks for a more straightforward review. Some thoughts:

- just because you didn't find a portfolio for Smith doesn't mean he didn't have one.
- anomalies in the birthdates for census records are par for the course -- they don't imply deception on the part of anyone, just sloppiness on the part of census takers
- I doubt EATCT represented a "breakthrough" for Smith. It had a small print run, was poorly distributed and went to a niche market. Not the sort of job that says that an artist has arrived, or would lead to other jobs.

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Scott Lane » October 31st, 2015, 11:52 am

Sworn Lip(s)

Your wrote the following:
“And finally, there is Cobbs book ‘Sandy Pike”. Not only do you see Erdnase writing that famous ‘low numbered check’ to Smith on the first page, but Cobb actually mentions a book as a Christmas gift entitled “How to win at Poker”.”

I thought I had all the Cobb books in my personal library. I cannot find this reference. Is it in the book A Country Boy in the City subtitled The Adventures of Sandy Pike?

Scott Edward Lane

Roger M.
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Roger M. » November 2nd, 2015, 9:24 am

Thanks for the additional clarity Robert, you've got some previously unexplored thinking contained within your investigations.

Pete McCabe
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Pete McCabe » November 2nd, 2015, 2:34 pm

Good lord. If Smith was a friend of Erdnase and possibly assisting him in remaining anonymous, then all his evidence is in question. What would that do to the entire field of Erdnase research?

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Jonathan Townsend » November 2nd, 2015, 2:50 pm

Pete McCabe wrote:...then all his evidence is in question. What would that do to the entire field of Erdnase research?


maybe the part of that research which insists upon holding some presuppositions as dear starts to look less than objective.

Anyway that's a significant difference between a logic problem and a historical exploration.

These days we have dinosaurs with feathers, ancient romans wearing colored togas and not so many people wearing top hats when they go out to the theater.
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mam
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby mam » November 2nd, 2015, 5:37 pm

Sworn Lip(s) wrote:Now the only book I could find with that title at that time period is Garret Brown' s The Autocrat of the Poker Table subtitle How to win at poker. Now I have no idea the contents of this book...could not find table of contents or review as of yet. But as I pointed out earlier, the jargon and slang that Cobb uses in these so-called youth series, only suggest his experienced knowledge of the sport.

You can download the entire book here: http://digital.library.shsu.edu/cdm/sin ... coll6/id/1

mam
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby mam » November 3rd, 2015, 10:29 am

I'm reading The Complete Jarrett by Jim Steinmeyer and it says when Jarrett moved to Chicago around 1930:

[…] he had settled in the center of magic activity, a grey stone building at 431 North Clark […] Next door young Laurie Ireland operated the Ireland Magic Company. There, a young lady named Frances had just been hired to help. (Later, as Frances Ireland Marshall, she became much more than a casual observer of magicians.) On the ground floor of the same building was Ed Miller's workshop, where he methodically turned out fine metal props for magicians. Art Felsman's popular Chicago magic shop was just several doors away.

Does anyone know more about when in time this area in Chicago became what could be considered "the center of magic activity"?


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