ERDNASE

Discuss general aspects of Genii.
John Bodine
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby John Bodine » July 26th, 2014, 6:34 pm

Reading through the book again and I'm curious to know if anyone has researched or created a family tree of shifts. Specifically, the author claims to have created a number of the shifts in the book but perhaps there is something to be learned about the author by tracing backward from the shifts. For example, was the open shift or a variant of it ever in print before 1902?

John Bodine

Tom Sawyer
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Tom Sawyer » July 28th, 2014, 4:02 pm

Hi All,

I am now working on another book about many of the S.W. Erdnase authorship questions.

In connection with that, I recently started a new blog, called "My Quest for S.W. Erdnase." If you are interested in the authorship of The Expert at the Card Table, you may find the blog of interest. Here is a link: https://erdnasequest.wordpress.com/.

At least for the present, I expect to post a new post very frequently -- probably every day, and perhaps more often than that.

--Tom Sawyer

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Richard Kaufman
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Richard Kaufman » July 28th, 2014, 4:35 pm

Great blog, Tom!
Subscribe today to Genii Magazine

Tom Sawyer
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Tom Sawyer » July 29th, 2014, 1:33 am

Richard, thank you. I appreciate that! --Tom
At least for the time being, I have taken down my S.W. Erdnase blog.

Rick Ruhl
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Rick Ruhl » July 29th, 2014, 5:05 am

Good stuff, Tom.

makes me wish I could take the next 5 years of my life and focus on the authorship.

Jonathan Townsend
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Jonathan Townsend » July 29th, 2014, 7:55 am

That's great. Best of luck in the project.

Post graduate work on card magic is beyond me - still working on the basics here.
Mundus vult decipi -per Caleb Carr's story Killing Time

Roger M.
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Roger M. » July 29th, 2014, 3:04 pm

This is fantastic news Tom!

It was when I finally got my hands on your S.W. Erdnase: Another View that the search for Erdnase began to make sense to me, and I began to read all that was available on Erdnase and his book.

Tom Sawyer
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Tom Sawyer » July 29th, 2014, 4:57 pm

Hi Rick Ruhl, Jonathan Towsend, and Roger M. --

Thank you all very much for the kind and encouraging comments. I especially appreciate the comments because I know from the Genii Forum that all three of you have done serious thinking about the Erdnase authorship controversy. (This applies to Richard Kaufman's comment, as well.)

Roger, that is really nice to hear about my S.W. Erdnase: Another View. Thanks for saying that.

I was recently reviewing some information on that book. The first run (1991) was a 67-page book, and there were only 100 copies. The second run (1997) was revised and enlarged, and it was 87 pages. That run consisted of only 65 copies!

Thanks again,

Tom Sawyer

Bill Mullins
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Bill Mullins » July 29th, 2014, 8:14 pm

And if you'd be willing to do a second printing of either version, I'd sure buy one!

Rick Ruhl
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Rick Ruhl » July 30th, 2014, 8:06 am

Or even a password controled PDF. I would think most of us Erdnase hunters have ethics..

Marty Demarest
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Marty Demarest » July 30th, 2014, 9:58 am

Great blog idea--and good to see you writing again about Erdnase, Tom! I'll add my voice to those asking for reprints. Or maybe just bind all your Erdnase work together? In any case, it's well worth seeking out.

Tom Sawyer
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Tom Sawyer » July 30th, 2014, 8:43 pm

Hi Bill, and Rick, and Marty,

Thanks for the interest in my old S.W. Erdnase: Another View!

I'll think about your above suggestions on that, and I'll probably discuss that subject on my new S.W. Erdnase blog within the next few days.

--Tom Sawyer

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Richard Kaufman
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Richard Kaufman » July 30th, 2014, 9:44 pm

If you're looking for an eager publisher ...
Subscribe today to Genii Magazine

Tom Sawyer
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Tom Sawyer » July 31st, 2014, 2:52 am

Hi Richard,

I don't think I am, but that definitely kinda made me smile!

Thanks,

Tom

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Tom Sawyer » August 1st, 2014, 7:30 pm

Hi All,

Thank you to everyone who has visited my new S.W. Erdnase blog!

The blog has been up for less than a week, and yet I have managed to post 18 posts so far. As of now, I have definitely kept up with my stated intention (for the time being) of at least one post per day.

There has not been as much “audience participation” as I would like to have seen. So far, none!

Posts have dealt with Marshall D. Smith, people’s views after the Whaley-Busby-Gardner book appeared, David Ben’s “Erdnase profile” versus David Alexander’s, a few problems I have with certain “profiling,” and the use of computers in analyzing Erdnase.

--Tom Sawyer
At least for the time being, I have taken down my S.W. Erdnase blog.

Bill Mullins
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Bill Mullins » August 1st, 2014, 10:07 pm

Tom Sawyer wrote: There has not been as much “audience participation” as I would like to have seen. So far, none!


Until now, I didn't realize that your blog accepted comments. It's not real obvious.

Tom Sawyer
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Tom Sawyer » August 1st, 2014, 10:48 pm

Bill, thank you for mentioning that! I intend to do something about it. I looked at a post just now and did not discern any place to comment. I did some research and finally found the answer.

For those who wonder "how to comment" on the blog, there is a little "speech balloon" by the title of each post -- you can click on that little icon.

I may end up overhauling the look of the blog. On my other blogs that allow comments, there is a clear place to comment at the end of each post.

Thanks again,

Tom
At least for the time being, I have taken down my S.W. Erdnase blog.

Rick Ruhl
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Rick Ruhl » August 2nd, 2014, 8:08 am

The movie 'Somewhere in Time' has been in my mind about this. As most of you know, the late Christoper Reeves character goes to an older Hotel and looks through the guestbook and sees he was there in the 20's.

There are many upscale Hotels in Chicago near State Street... wonder if they have guestbooks for their history archives?

The other thing is, could Martin Gardener have prompted M.D. Smith on what to answer for certain questions? That we will never know, but could we have been led astray due to the goal of finding Erdnase?

Roger M.
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Roger M. » August 2nd, 2014, 10:34 am

Rick, the interaction between Martin Gardner and M.D. Smith is covered in the limited edition booklet, The Gardner-Smith Correspondence released by H&R Magic Books in 1999.

The actual exchange of letters (contained in the book) between the two men don't appear to demonstrate any level of conspiracy or coaching taking place.

Although I don't believe Gardner fabricated answers, or coached Smith in what to say, Gardner did ask some leading questions of Smith, and when he got an answer from Smith that he didn't like, it could be said that on a couple of occasions Gardner appeared to rephrase the question until he got an answer he did like.

But they were all Smith's own answers, as shown in the actual Smith letters to Gardner in The Gardner - Smith Correspondence.
Although the book was initially released in a limited edition of 250 copies, I believe it was recently included electronically on one of the Erdnase DVD sets, and is now easy to get a hold of.

As an aside, a question for Tom.
Do you have a copy of the Gardner-Smith book noted above?
Contained within it on page 12 is a drawing that Smith did for Gardner that is done very much in the style of the Wayside drawings in your blog post of a couple of days ago.
This doesn't resolve your thinking that the drawings in EATCT don't seem to match the style Smith used in the Wayside drawings, but does indicate that the style Smith used in the Wayside drawings in 1922 most definitely match the style used by Smith in the drawing he did for Gardner in 1946.

Tom Sawyer
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Tom Sawyer » August 2nd, 2014, 3:35 pm

Hi Roger,

I do not have a copy of The Gardner-Smith Correspondence. However, I am guessing that the drawing you are discussing is the same as the drawing on page 270 of The Man Who Was Erdnase. With that assumption as a premise, here are a few comments.

Your observation about that drawing is very perceptive.

As you said, that drawing and the Wayside Tales drawings are all similar in style. Not only that, but to my eye, those drawings, which were obviously (in their original form) pen-and-ink drawings, seem markedly superior, as art, to most if not all of the other Smith art I have seen in mediums other than pen-and-ink.

His oil paintings I have seen seem to vary significantly in their quality. His non-pen-and-ink illustrations -- the ones I have seen -- have usually seemed rather primitive and non-memorable. (The one from The Mother's Magazine on my blog is an example of that.)

But the pen-and-ink drawings are beautifully executed, and that seems (to me) to be where his art really came to life.

This may seem like, "Oh, great. Now Tom thinks he is an art critic." But for decades one of my major interests has been American illustration art, and I am pretty familiar with works of many of the major American illustrators of the early twentieth century.

--Tom Sawyer
Last edited by Tom Sawyer on August 2nd, 2014, 4:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
At least for the time being, I have taken down my S.W. Erdnase blog.

Roger M.
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Roger M. » August 2nd, 2014, 4:02 pm

Hi Tom, yes that's the same drawing as in the Gardner-Smith booklet.

It would appear that Smith had a few fundamentally different styles he could draw from as the situation required ... his pen and ink drawings, his New Orleans style paintings, and the drawing you highlighted in your blog from The Mothers Magazine ... a drawing which seems very different again from the two styles highlighted above.

Tom Sawyer
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Tom Sawyer » August 4th, 2014, 5:04 pm

Hi All,

One of the more interesting aspects of the whole S.W. Erdnase case has to do with the publisher known as the Jamieson-Higgins Company, which appears to have been connected with James Kinney's printing company. Everyone will recall that there is pretty good (but in my view not 100% conclusive) evidence that McKinney printed The Expert at the Card Table.

A quotation from The Bookseller, January 1903, earlier in this thread, says that Jamieson-Higgins "was tangled up with the printing business of James Kinney, which is also in the hands of a receiver."

It has been shown earlier in this thread (in a post by Bill Mullins) that a contemporary issue of Publisher's Weekly indicated that the "Western News Company" bought "most of the books and plates" of Jamieson-Higgins.

However, for those interested in the relationships of the various companies that were possibly connected in some way (even though maybe remotely) with McKinney, the following might be of interest. The April 1903 issue of The Bookseller (easily viewable on Google Books) says in part:

. . . the plates and books on hand were purchased by the Western Book and Stationery Company, not the Western News Company.


To be clear, that refers to the purchase of materials of the Jamieson-Higgins Company.

--Tom Sawyer
At least for the time being, I have taken down my S.W. Erdnase blog.

Roger M.
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Roger M. » August 10th, 2014, 10:36 pm

I don't use Facebook, Google+, or Twitter, so can't sign into your blog Tom.

Regarding your recent post about the Centennial Edition Tom, and the reference to the loose one page Colophon sheet that came in the book.

The reference to "Fouled and broken type and illustrations were restored" as you noted indeed is on the sheet ... but it's important to note the sentence immediately preceding it, which was there to give the paragraph its context.

The full text reads:
Current techniques were used to create a modern version of the original plates. Fouled and broken type and illustrations were restored.

(the underlining and bolding are mine)

It's safe to assume that the Publisher had a true First Edition, and the reference in the Centennial Edition was to restoring condition to the original plates used to print the first edition, which in the absence of a true First Edition in my collection I will have to presume was in the publisher of the Centennial Editions hands at the time.

As the note from the Publisher states, "Research was conducted and every effort has been made to create a replica as true as possible to the original at the time it was printed, rather than as copies appear today, which have been altered by the passing of time".

(again, underlining and bolding is mine).

The publisher goes on to state, "The only features that have been altered from the original are in the use of archival-grade materials and a modern binding technique to better withstand handling and use".

The above is a more complete take of the text off the Publishers note and the Colophon attached to the Centennial Edition.
Last edited by Roger M. on August 12th, 2014, 10:29 am, edited 1 time in total.

Tom Sawyer
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Tom Sawyer » August 11th, 2014, 5:11 pm

Roger, thanks!

If I were to do a facsimile edition of the first edition of The Expert at the Card Table, I would want all of the typographical components to be precisely the same as in a certain specific exemplar of the first edition.

On page 273 of The Man Who Was Erdnase is a reproduction of the text on the verso of an Erdnase title page. I’m not sure, but in context, it seems as though that is from the first edition. The first line includes the name “Erdnase,” but the name is essentially illegible.

Maybe it was that way on all copies of the first edition.

In any event, if I were doing a facsimile edition, I would not change that, if it was that way in the copy I was reproducing.

(I have never examined a copy of the centennial edition, and I have no knowledge as to what the back of the title page looks like.)

--Tom
At least for the time being, I have taken down my S.W. Erdnase blog.

Roger M.
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Roger M. » August 11th, 2014, 11:53 pm

Hi Tom,

I don’t have all the various editions, but I do have a few.
Here’s a few interesting things I’ve found by taking your note about the damaged type in TMWWE on page 273, and comparing it to the reverse of the title pages of the editions I do have in my library.

In no particular order:

1) The 1944 Fleming hardcover (blue) does not include the reverse of the 1st Ed. title page in this edition.
2) The Casino Press edition does not include the reverse of the 1st. Ed. title page.
3) Both the comb bound and the perfect bound editions of the Gamblers Book Club editions do not include the reverse of the 1st. Ed. title page.
4) The Coles edition doesn’t include the reverse of the title page.
5) On the K.C. Card Co. Edition, the 1st. Ed. reverse title page text is present, and it’s been completely repaired.
6) On the Frost paperback edition, the 1st. Ed. reverse title page text is present, and it’s been completely repaired. (Frost printed for K.C. Card, so this isn’t surprising).

Now for the editions that match the damaged type exactly as noted in your post:

I have two paperback copies of what Jason England describes as the “Drake-Undated-Green” (link below).
Interestingly, both copies appear identical except for the reverse of the title page. In one copy, the type has been fully repaired, and in the other copy the type is damaged exactly as it is on page 273 of TMWWE.
This would seem to imply that at some point Drake made efforts to repair what were becoming seriously damaged printing plates.

I also have what I refer to as a Wheman Brothers edition, which is damaged in exactly the same way as the one copy of the Drake edition and the illustration on page 273 of TMWWE.
I haven’t pulled these old editions out in a while, and my memory is hazy, but I believe the Wheman Brothers edition is actually an edition that was printed by somebody else … perhaps Drake. I just can’t recall, and it’s not specified in Jason Englands excellent lecture notes on Erdnase editions, which form the basis of the Magicana website section on Erdnase editions linked below. (Perhaps Jason is reading this thread and could clarify?).

So it might appear that the broken and damaged printing plates were simply getting too banged up to use, as shown on page 273 of TMWWE, and that at some point while the plates were in the possession of Drake, efforts were made to restore the plates, as indicated by my two copies of the Drake Undated Green edition, one with damaged type, the other with perfect type.

What does all this mean? … Probably not much, but I found it all quite interesting and it was a nice way to kill an hour looking further into your reference to the damaged type as shown on page 273 in The Man Who Was Erdnase.
It was also the first time I’d had all the old, delicate Erdnase editions out of their plastic sleeves in at least a few years :)

Jason Englands Erdnase edition notes linked here:
Magicana-Erdnase site - http://www.everythingerdnase.com/exhibi ... ated-green

Bill Mullins
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Bill Mullins » August 12th, 2014, 3:43 pm

A few years ago, I found an article about Edwin S. Andrews that linked him to Watsonville CA. The article was punning on the word "pippins", using it to mean young girls but also referring to its actual meaning of "apples". Apples were (and are) a major export from Watsonville.

I just found out that Andrews spent some time as a Watsonville agent for J. and H. Goodwin, an apple exporter. LINK. Similar ads run from July to Sept of 1919.

Rick Ruhl
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Rick Ruhl » August 12th, 2014, 5:07 pm

I have the drake undated green only and it has the repaired reverse title page.

Roger M.
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Roger M. » August 12th, 2014, 6:45 pm

The quality of your research continues to amaze Bill!

I still believe your 2011 research putting E.S. Andrews at a card table such that he was specifically contacted by other players and asked to play cards carries substantial weight.

You succeeded in putting a deck of cards in E.S. Andrews hands, and in at least as compelling manner as some of the competing candidates have had decks of cards put in theirs.

Bill Mullins
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Bill Mullins » August 12th, 2014, 8:13 pm

Thanks, Roger.

While I was glad to be able to check that particular box for Edwin S. Andrews, I don't think it is really dispositive. My assumption is that any man who would be old enough to have written the book would also have some familiarity with playing cards -- they are just too common throughout society. I suppose that there are some segments of society that have a moral problem with cards in general -- certain religious groups -- but otherwise, everyone plays cards.

As of 1902, Hoyle's had gone through multiple editions and was continuously in print. "According to Hoyle" had already become a commonly used expression, as had other phrases from the card table such as "pass the buck" and "deal from the bottom". Newspapers carried regular columns on whist (contract bridge hadn't overtaken it yet) and reported the results of the big tournaments.

What would be unusual would be to show that someone did NOT play cards.

Roger M.
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Roger M. » August 13th, 2014, 11:42 am

I agree with you Bill.

My observation speaks primarily to the fact that in the broader search involving multiple candidates, importance has come to be placed on placing a deck of cards in the candidates hands ... something your research demonstrated in the positive for Andrews.

I guess the distinguishing factor is that (as you noted) there were obviously some folks who didn't engage in card play, so actually putting a deck of cards in somebodies hands is one small step closer to being able to note that they at least had some knowledge of card play in general.

But I agree that sitting down and playing cards was likely a primary form of entertainment for a majority of Americans at that point in history, and that noting a man actually played cards would be peripherally similar to noting that a man wore a hat ... somewhat standard stuff for the time period.

Tom Sawyer
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Tom Sawyer » August 13th, 2014, 12:45 pm

Bill and Roger,

I too found the additional facts pretty interesting, and for a couple of reasons.

First, and maybe foremost, it gives a more complete picture of what Edwin Sumner Andrews was all about. Even if he was not an agent for Goodwin as far back as the "pippin" article, it tends to show that that his excuse was plausible.

Also, the advertisement tends to validate the original story, and that support is nice, because newspaper articles as a class are not necessarily the most reliable source of information.

Also, regarding the card-playing evidence . . .

It seems to me that if a person rarely plays cards, an article such as the original "pippins" article is not too likely to appear. (I have a feeling that others may already have said something like this.)

And as you two (Bill and Roger) basically have said, it is just comforting to know that it is unlikely that anyone will come up with evidence that he never played cards.

--Tom Sawyer
Last edited by Tom Sawyer on August 13th, 2014, 1:02 pm, edited 2 times in total.
At least for the time being, I have taken down my S.W. Erdnase blog.

Bill Mullins
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Bill Mullins » August 13th, 2014, 12:50 pm

Roger M. wrote:. . . and that noting a man actually played cards would be peripherally similar to noting that a man wore a hat ... somewhat standard stuff for the time period.



The last magic effect in Expert is "The Card in Hat". In it, the performer has to borrow a hat -- HE DOESN'T OWN ONE!

The only known picture of Edwin Sumner Andrews shows an uncovered head -- HE DOESN'T OWN A HAT!

Need I say more? Case closed . . . .

Bill Mullins
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Bill Mullins » August 13th, 2014, 1:22 pm

The 1920 census showed Edwin Andrews as a fruit farmer on Fruitvale Ave in Saratoga, CA. While much of that region is now developed into housing, there are still orchards on Fruitvale:

LINK

That orchard is Novakovich Orchards.

Tom Sawyer
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Tom Sawyer » August 14th, 2014, 3:01 pm

Hi All,

One of the things that isn't talked about too much (as far as I know) is the possibility of name confusion. I'm talking about situations where "everything" points to the conclusion that a specific published name refers to a specific candidate. But sometimes maybe it doesn't. (I'm not talking about the related, broader problem of seeing a name more or less in isolation, and having no idea of which specific person is being mentioned.)

So, anyway, I recently searched on Google for:

E.S. Andrews Saratoga

And, of course, various things came up, including the results of some 2001 genealogical investigations by Richard Hatch.

But one of the things that came up was the May 17, 1902, issue of United States Investor, with the following:

. . . the Saratoga Pyritic Smelting Company, of Ironton, Ouray county, Colo. E.S. Andrews is president . . . .


Now in this example, there is no possibility of confusion.

But if the name had been "W.E. Sanders," instead of "E.S. Andrews," I think most people would assume that the reference was to Wilbur Edgerton Sanders, because of the date, the mining connection, and the location. But in essence, there would be no solid reason to assume that.

--Tom Sawyer
At least for the time being, I have taken down my S.W. Erdnase blog.

Bill Mullins
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Bill Mullins » August 14th, 2014, 4:11 pm

Over years, I've found at least half a dozen people who were named E. S. Andrews ca. 1902 and were prominent enough to be mentioned in digitized magazines or newspapers or books enough times that I can reognize them and remember them as individuals. These include:
Edwin S. Andrews (Richard Hatch's guy)
E. S. Andrews, con man (Todd Karr's guy)
E. S. Andrews, newspaper publisher of Williamston MI
E. S. Andrews, insurance executive from WI and CT
E. S. Andrews, NM Bicycle dealer (also on local board of education)
E. S. Andrews, the mining guy mentioned by Tom above

I've also occasionally mentioned specific individuals in this forum.

This doesn't include dozens of other people with the initials that show up -- enter "E. S. Andrews" into any searchable text database, and all sorts of people fall out. And while I haven't exhaustively looked at the matter, my guess is that the 1900 U.S. Census has at least 25 and maybe 50 or so people named "E. S. Andrews" who were adult males in that year.

Just finding someone named "E. S. Andrews" doesn't make them a strong candidate for having writting EATCT. It's other supporting facts that make them interesting -- the fact that Todd's guy is a swindler, for example, or the many coincidences of time and place for Richard's. There were multiple people named "W. E. Sanders" in 1900 as well, but David Alexander/Marty Demarest's guy also has other supporting information that makes them a "person of interest". When Marty's Genii article first came out, I found at least one other guy named W. E. Sanders in Montana, and it was complicated to keep him separate from Wilbur E. (and I'm not sure I was completely successful -- some of the references that I suppose are for Wilbur may be for the other guy, and some of those that I discounted as being the other guy, may in fact be Wilbur).

Tom Sawyer
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Tom Sawyer » August 17th, 2014, 9:12 pm

Bill, that's an interesting list.

If the E.S. Andrews who was a publisher had been located in Chicago -- bingo! (Not really.)

Another E.S. Andrews was one mentioned by John Bodine in a post back in 2010. Here is the link John posted (or a similar link):

http://books.google.com/books?id=-0t-O5 ... ws&f=false

The page before that refers to "E. Andrews, M.D."

The following (from 1902) may be a reference to the same person (line 13 from bottom):

http://books.google.com/books?id=u7ZXAA ... 312&dq=Homœopathic+%22E.+Andrews%22&hl=en&sa=X&ei=XUzxU46EG4vuoASf9IJw&ved=0CCUQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=Homœopathic%20%22E.%20Andrews%22&f=false

The foregoing references overall make clear the Chicago location.

The following (also from 1902 or thereabouts) is a reference to an E.S. Andrews, M.D., who was apparently based in Delaware. (The information is after a "Delaware" heading.)

http://books.google.com/books?id=Og42AQ ... 22&f=false

--Tom Sawyer
At least for the time being, I have taken down my S.W. Erdnase blog.

Tom Sawyer
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Tom Sawyer » August 18th, 2014, 1:23 pm

Hi All,

Well, it has been over two weeks (I think) since I have talked here about my new S.W. Erdnase blog. This is a little update.

The most recent nine posts have discussed the illustrations in The Expert at the Card Table -- so even those of you who may have burned out on the authorship issues might see something of interest.

The blog has now been "up" for about 23 days. I have now posted a total of 59 posts during that period -- so I have been averaging more than two posts per day there.

Also, thanks to those of you who have submitted comments -- I think five different people have submitted at least one comment.

--Tom Sawyer
At least for the time being, I have taken down my S.W. Erdnase blog.

John Bodine
Posts: 120
Joined: July 23rd, 2008, 3:50 pm

Re: ERDNASE

Postby John Bodine » August 18th, 2014, 1:25 pm

And here is a book that lists E.S. Andrews as the printer/publisher out of Michigan.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/380837487716

Tom Sawyer
Posts: 318
Joined: January 7th, 2012, 6:44 pm

Re: ERDNASE

Postby Tom Sawyer » August 19th, 2014, 6:26 am

Hi All,

I've been thinking some about the writing of The Expert at the Card Table, and about how little is really known about the process of writing that book.

Although the writing may have been spread over a number of years, it seems semi-accepted that Erdnase probably relied to some degree on a book by Selbit that was released in late 1901. (That release date was discussed by Richard Hatch on this thread back in 2009.)

A transformation described beginning on page 151 of Erdnase has been mentioned many times in this connection.

It is illustrated by Fig. 84, and this situation may have implications for the order in which Erdnase wrote the book, as well as the sequence in which the illustrations were produced.

Anyway, one wonders -- if the book was basically completed in late 1901, and it pretty much must have been -- why Erdnase felt compelled to include that sleight. My own attitude perhaps would have been, well, I would like to include it, but I have already completed the book!

It was also a matter of possibly redoing work that had already been done. Depending on how late in the process the information was added, a new illustration might have been needed after everything else was already drawn. (My own solution to this -- if I thought a new illustration was really needed -- might be to delete the old Fig. 84 and substitute the new one.)

Overall, it seems unexpected that Erdnase would be adding things at the last minute, but I think he probably did so.

--Tom Sawyer
At least for the time being, I have taken down my S.W. Erdnase blog.

Bill Mullins
Posts: 5206
Joined: January 17th, 2008, 12:00 pm
Location: Huntsville, AL

Re: ERDNASE

Postby Bill Mullins » August 19th, 2014, 9:34 am

Fig 2 shows a card with pips only and no numbers, while other figures (see Figs 30 or 43, for example) show the number/letters.

Were cards without numerical indices still fairly common in 1902? I think of such cards as being older, and most of the cards I've seen from the turn of the century have numbers.

Does the use of two different styles of cards imply two different posing sessions, or that Erdnase brought two different decks with him at one session?

Or does it simply mean that Smith cut a few corners while drawing the pictures, and left out some non-pertinent details?


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