ERDNASE

Discuss general aspects of Genii.
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Zenner
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Zenner » March 16th, 2018, 8:39 pm

Bill Mullins wrote:Note that you may have the direction of information flow backwards. Instead of German to Erdnase, it could well be the other way around. A footnote in The Man Who Was Erdnase quotes Reinhard Mueller saying that "Erdnase's work was known to the German writers at the beginning of the century". It also says that Roterberg sent Conradi material prior to 1896 -- perhaps Roterberg got it from Erdnase? And perhaps all the material you've mentioned as German in origin came originally from Erdnase?


Nice to see Bill Mullins backing something that I posted about 7 hours earlier :)

The man who became "Erdnase" for a brief time in 1902 had obviously been around for some time previous to that. He didn't just appear out of nowhere with the knowledge to write that book. And we all agree that he was a good writer - could it be that he was educated at a teacher training college? It would seem that he had some practical experience as a magician as well - could it be that he was a professional magician from roughly the mid 1880s until the mid 1890s, before retiring and taking up a more conventional job in sales? Book sales?

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Bill Mullins » March 16th, 2018, 9:09 pm

lybrary wrote:The strongest argument against the possibility that all of these things traveled from Erdnase to Germany is that we would then expect Erdnase taking some credit for it, which he didn't. He wasn't shy taking credit for other things.

We would only expect him to take credit if he did invent them. Not if they came to him through the underground.
It's very unusual to be able to point to a specific inventor of a move or procedure, even more so for 19th century sleights and tricks. The best we can usually do is point to the first publication. And as you are in the process of showing with these German discoveries, that changes all the time. A month ago, we thought things were first published in English-language literature, or even Erdnase. Now we think some of them are first published in German literature. Perhaps a detailed study of French, or Spanish, or some other body of work will change the record even further.

If Roterberg was the conduit, we would also expect that Roterberg would include it in his books, but he didn't. The amount, the timing, and all the other little signs clearly point to Erdnase learning these things from the German literature. Maybe not all, but certainly some of them, most notably the formulas for the stacked deck and the three aces trick.


Did Conradi, or Suhr, or Willmann have a track record of crediting or claiming credit for things they published? To what extent is the publication of something in their works evidence that they invented it? Do they publish things that are known to have been invented elsewhere?

It's reaching to say that since the earliest (currently) known appearance of a 3 ace effect appears in Suhr, we can "prove" something about its origins. You yourself said (in your newsletter) "I would not be surprised if we find even earlier German publications of this trick." Would you be surprised if someone found earlier non-German appearances?

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby lybrary » March 16th, 2018, 11:34 pm

Bill Mullins wrote:No it doesn't obviously mean that, because preceding this passage, but on the same page, he discusses "works on conjuring" as the source of card table artifice.

The subject of this section is gambling moves. So when Erdnase refers to magic literature he has to specify what he means and thus he needs to use the term conjuring, so that it becomes clear to the reader that he refers to magic books. But when he later writes about 'card books' not further specifying them, he clearly means magic AND gambling books, because they are all card books. Otherwise he would have used a conjuring or magic specifier. The subject of the section makes this obvious. When the topic is gambling then not further specified books obviously include gambling books.

Bill Mullins wrote:Perhaps a detailed study of French, or Spanish, or some other body of work will change the record even further.

I would more than welcome a detailed analysis of pre-Erdnase French and Spanish magic literature.

Bill Mullins wrote:Would you be surprised if someone found earlier non-German appearances?

I would be, because the German impact of magic in and around Chicago seems to be a lot more profound than the French or Spanish one particularly when it comes to Erdnase. Roterberg translated primarily from German publications not from French or Spanish ones. Erdnase has a meaning in German not in French or Spanish. How many French magic journals were available pre-1900 in the US? Two German ones were available. Robert-Houdin's books seem to be the only frequently quoted and referred to French books, but they were translated to English and thus already part of the English published record. I am not aware of any important Spanish magic books from that time. But it wouldn't really change the argument if say there is an earlier Spanish source for say The Three Aces. You would also have to provide a plausible argument how Erdnase could have gotten hold of it and read it. With German magic literature we have the importer Roterberg who is right there in Chicago. That provides a plausible explanation of how Erdnase could easily and readily have gotten access to German literature.

You can hypothesize and conjecture all you want. That is a very weak argument because there is currently no evidence. When it comes to the publishing record black on white counts. I have provided several new German sources predating Erdnase for 5 tricks of the 15 tricks Erdnase describes where no English sources have been found. Once you can show something similar for French or Spanish or some other body of work you can credibly counter my argument with evidence. Right now you have nothing but blah blah. On the German side we have facts and hard evidence.
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby lybrary » March 17th, 2018, 7:32 am

Zenner wrote:could it be that he was educated at a teacher training college?

How about somebody not only being an instructor but founding a school?

Zenner wrote:... before retiring and taking up a more conventional job in sales? Book sales?

How about somebody actually writing textbooks not only selling them?

Peter, I like your current candidate better than the one you had before, but there are glaring problems. What other writing has Benedict done besides the couple of articles from the Sphinx? Why are his Sphinx articles mostly about stage magic and apparatus with a distinct lack of sleight-of-hand with cards? If he was a professional magician and later write on magic in the Sphinx, why would he not mention to be the author of a highly regarded magic book? Do you have evidence for his connection to S.W. Jamieson who filled out the copyright application form? Do you have any adult photos that show him without a mustache?
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Zenner » March 17th, 2018, 7:55 am

lybrary wrote: Peter, I like your current candidate better than the one you had before, but there are glaring problems. What other writing has Benedict done besides the couple of articles from the Sphinx? Why are his Sphinx articles mostly about stage magic and apparatus with a distinct lack of sleight-of-hand with cards? If he was a professional magician and later write on magic in the Sphinx, why would he not mention to be the author of a highly regarded magic book? Do you have evidence for his connection to S.W. Jamieson who filled out the copyright application form? Do you have any adult photos that show him without a mustache?


“Tonight’s Entertainment. The attraction at Harper’s Theatre tonight is a double bill, Benedict, the magician, and Revell’s Star Magnets, a strong specialty company. Benedict’s work is no jugglery, mesmeric or spiritualistic humbug, but strictly scientific magic. His stage settings and apparatus are the finest and most elegant to be had, and his Illusion of ‘Dreamland’ is the latest and most beautiful triumph of modern magic. As a manipulator of cards and coins he is not surpassed by the great Herrmann. The company surrounding him is headed by Edwin Warren, well and favorably known here as a comedian with Thayer, Primrose & West’s Minstrels, Hallen & Hart’s and other companies. The other people are all good in their lines, and the performance as a whole, is far superior to many higher classed attractions.” (The Rock Island Argus, Thursday, April 25, 1889)

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby lybrary » March 17th, 2018, 8:21 am

Zenner wrote:“Tonight’s Entertainment. The attraction at Harper’s Theatre tonight is a double bill, Benedict, the magician, and Revell’s Star Magnets, a strong specialty company. Benedict’s work is no jugglery, mesmeric or spiritualistic humbug, but strictly scientific magic. His stage settings and apparatus are the finest and most elegant to be had, and his Illusion of ‘Dreamland’ is the latest and most beautiful triumph of modern magic. As a manipulator of cards and coins he is not surpassed by the great Herrmann. The company surrounding him is headed by Edwin Warren, well and favorably known here as a comedian with Thayer, Primrose & West’s Minstrels, Hallen & Hart’s and other companies. The other people are all good in their lines, and the performance as a whole, is far superior to many higher classed attractions.” (The Rock Island Argus, Thursday, April 25, 1889)

This account describes somebody distinctly not like Erdnase. We learn he was a stage magician performing apparatus magic. Erdnase generally speaking preferred pure sleight-of-hand rather than apparatus and gimmicks. Benedict also performed coin and card stage manipulation. While Erdnase does explain the back palm, it is only a tiny portion of the book and can hardly be called a book on stage manipulation. Expert doesn't seem in the least that it was written by somebody like Benedict, further evidenced by his articles in the Sphinx, which do reflect the person described above.
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Bill Mullins » March 18th, 2018, 2:51 am

While I don't particularly support Benedict as a candidate, seeing criticism of him because he was known for stage magic, from an advocate of someone who is not known to have done any magic, is funny.

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby lybrary » March 18th, 2018, 7:42 am

Bill Mullins wrote:While I don't particularly support Benedict as a candidate, seeing criticism of him because he was known for stage magic, from an advocate of someone who is not known to have done any magic, is funny.

That shows that you lack the means to take facts and draw the obvious conclusions. Finding facts about a candidate is a double edged sword, because they may further confirm or further disprove a case. For example, one of the big problems I have with Sanders are his notebooks. We have several of them, spanning years of his life, with detailed notes, yet the only magic trick we find in there is a simple beginners trick, exactly the kind of thing we would NOT expect to find in Erdnase's notes. On top the writing in his notes is bland and totally unlike Erdnase. There is nothing in the notebooks that suggests Sanders is Erdnase, which isn't helping his case. Of course, not every detail needs to point to Erdnase, but lots of data and information with no hint of Erdnase isn't a good thing for a case.

A similar thing is the case with Benedict. At first look his magic background does bolster his case, but when all we know he is doing and writing about is on stage magic, apparatus, and stage manipulation, then it isn't improving his case. It is hurting his case, because all it shows is you have found a stage magician, not Erdnase. You have to find something that closely matches Erdnase's traits, habits, knowledge, interests, ...

It is true that with Gallaway, we do not have that much concrete knowledge about his magic background, but what we know does not hurt his case. He has the right books in his library (magic and gambling books), exactly the type of books we would expect Erdnase to own. Working as orator at circuses for three years doesn't hurt his case either. It helps his case, because it helps explain his command of language, and puts him in contact with magicians who worked the sideshows. It opens the possibility that he met during that time Harto, for example. Everything we know about Gallaway's writing and publishing perfectly matches what we see with Erdnase. You can re-read my chapter on 'Traits, Habits and Interests' in my book "The Hunt for Erdnase" and you will find a number of very close and surprising matches with Erdnase.

Peter hasn't yet fully laid out his case for Benedict. The things he has presented so far have serious problems in my opinion, but perhaps we will learn more about Benedict soon.
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Zenner » March 18th, 2018, 9:07 am

lybrary wrote:
Zenner wrote:“Tonight’s Entertainment. The attraction at Harper’s Theatre tonight is a double bill, Benedict, the magician, and Revell’s Star Magnets, a strong specialty company. Benedict’s work is no jugglery, mesmeric or spiritualistic humbug, but strictly scientific magic. His stage settings and apparatus are the finest and most elegant to be had, and his Illusion of ‘Dreamland’ is the latest and most beautiful triumph of modern magic. As a manipulator of cards and coins he is not surpassed by the great Herrmann. The company surrounding him is headed by Edwin Warren, well and favorably known here as a comedian with Thayer, Primrose & West’s Minstrels, Hallen & Hart’s and other companies. The other people are all good in their lines, and the performance as a whole, is far superior to many higher classed attractions.” (The Rock Island Argus, Thursday, April 25, 1889)

This account describes somebody distinctly not like Erdnase. We learn he was a stage magician performing apparatus magic. Erdnase generally speaking preferred pure sleight-of-hand rather than apparatus and gimmicks. Benedict also performed coin and card stage manipulation. While Erdnase does explain the back palm, it is only a tiny portion of the book and can hardly be called a book on stage manipulation. Expert doesn't seem in the least that it was written by somebody like Benedict, further evidenced by his articles in the Sphinx, which do reflect the person described above.


That's typical of you, Chris. If you read the above report again, you will note that he was "A manipulator of cards and coins" as well as doing illusions. If you read his articles in The Sphinx you will learn that he did escapology, mentalism and spirit effects also. He was an all rounder. Why do you think (or try to make us think) that an all rounder couldn't write a book on card magic? He wanted his book to sell well, as he "needed the money", so he wrote it for anyone who was interested in handling cards, not just magicians. That would have limited his market somewhat.

It seems to be generally accepted now that "Erdnase" was a well-read magician; we have come a long way from the beliefs that he was a card sharp who got somebody else to write a magic section for his book. What kind of magic did Galloway specialise in?

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby lybrary » March 18th, 2018, 9:29 am

Zenner wrote:Why do you think (or try to make us think) that an all rounder couldn't write a book on card magic?

I am not saying that being a stage magician excludes one from being Erdnase. But what we have learned so far from Benedict's writing and performing covers everything but what Erdnase writes about. Why is that? Why does he not also write about close-up card tricks or card moves in the Sphinx? And why does he not take credit for a great magic book he wrote? Those are important questions you haven't answered.
Zenner wrote:It seems to be generally accepted now that "Erdnase" was a well-read magician; we have come a long way from the beliefs that he was a card sharp who got somebody else to write a magic section for his book. What kind of magic did Gallaway specialise in?

Judging from the books in Gallaway's library he was interested in exactly the same type of stuff Erdnase was interested in. We know he had at least "Expert at the Card Table" and several gambling books in his library. If you read Erdnase carefully you will learn that Erdnase associates more with the gambler than with the magician. My takeaway from reading Erdnase is that he is not a professional magician, but a very well read amateur magician who showed card tricks in social settings (like he did to Smith), but not to earn a living. On the gambling side I am certain that he was a cardshark for some period of his life, but he appears not as the prototypical chardshark who knew only one or two ruses and applied those for years and decades to take the money. Erdnase seems very interested to learn the entire range of methods. It appears his intellectual curiosity is bigger than actually making cardsharking his one and only pursuit in life.
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Leonard Hevia » March 18th, 2018, 12:22 pm

lybrary wrote:For example, one of the big problems I have with Sanders are his notebooks. We have several of them, spanning years of his life, with detailed notes, yet the only magic trick we find in there is a simple beginners trick, exactly the kind of thing we would NOT expect to find in Erdnase's notes. On top the writing in his notes is bland and totally unlike Erdnase. There is nothing in the notebooks that suggests Sanders is Erdnase, which isn't helping his case. Of course, not every detail needs to point to Erdnase, but lots of data and information with no hint of Erdnase isn't a good thing for a case.


Chris--You continue to disparage Sanders' writing skills, yet I have pointed out to you from Demarest's Genii article on Sanders that he had the ability to switch gears and write in m any different styles. Evidently you have still not read that article. If Sanders was Erdnase, there is no reason why he would have to write like Erdnase in his notebooks or personal diaries. Why would he need to be in "Erdnase" character for his own personal record keeping? An actor does not speak in character to family or close friends. Those who advocate Sanders would like to see card handling notes in his personal papers, but absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

Nor is there any reason Sanders had to write like Erdnase in his mining textbooks. If you find the language in his mining books stilted, boring, and unlike Erdnase--well--that meant he delivered the job exactly as his publisher expected of him. Evidently you have also not been able to get your hands on more examples of Sanders' writing and have arrived at conclusions surfing on narrow parameters, like a horse with blinders.

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby lybrary » March 18th, 2018, 4:10 pm

Leonard Hevia wrote:Those who advocate Sanders would like to see card handling notes in his personal papers, but absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

I agree with that. Perhaps his magic notebooks have not survived. Or perhaps he didn't take any notes on that subject. But Sanders supporters usually point to that one trick and claim that this is proof that he is Erdnase. It isn't. If anything it is proof he ain't him.

Leonard Hevia wrote:If Sanders was Erdnase, there is no reason why he would have to write like Erdnase in his notebooks or personal diaries. Why would he need to be in "Erdnase" character for his own personal record keeping? An actor does not speak in character to family or close friends. ... Nor is there any reason Sanders had to write like Erdnase in his mining textbooks. If you find the language in his mining books stilted, boring, and unlike Erdnase--well--that meant he delivered the job exactly as his publisher expected of him.

Good, so you admit that both his notebooks and his mining articles do not exhibit any Erdnase like command of language. Something we can agree on. So where does Sanders write like Erdnase? And please don't point to his poetry, because Expert is not a collection of poems. It is a textbook of what most non-magic and non-gambling folks would characterize as utterly boring stuff, like where your second joint of your first finger has to go, yet it exhibits remarkable command of language.

Sanders wasn't good enough of a writer that he could have several voices and make them so distinct that one wouldn't give a hint of the other. Actually his mine timbering and his notebooks are on the same level in terms of command of language. He doesn't seem to change voices there. Why would he use different voices for technical articles on mine-timbering and technical material on gambling and magic? They are both technical in nature. One would expect similar qualities of language to be present. There are objective metrics that can be applied. One is vocabulary richness, something Erdnase has in spades. Sanders uses the same words over and over again. He has a narrow vocabulary, and no flair for expressions.

If you study other authors who have written across different subjects you will notice that their writing does exhibit commonalities across genres and subjects. I suggest you study Hoffmann or Teale for example, two authors who have written on magic but also on other subjects.
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Leonard Hevia » March 18th, 2018, 6:19 pm

lybrary wrote:But Sanders supporters usually point to that one trick and claim that this is proof that he is Erdnase. It isn't. If anything it is proof he ain't him.


And who are those Sanders supports that point to the "Mutus Nomen" trick and claim that is proof that Sanders was Erdnase? I haven't read anywhere of anybody making this claim. Who are those people? Do you have evidence of this? The only claim that Demarest made about this effect in his essay was that Sanders undoubtedly knew magic. Indisputable evidence of knowing at least one card trick is much better than nothing. I don't see how Sanders' familiarity with this effect would invalidate the possibility that he might have been Erdnase. Since you still refuse to read Demarest's article, here is what he wrote about this trick:

"Mutus Nomen Dedit Cocis" is not one of the tricks included in The Expert. But the idea of reading minds with a self-working trick is featured in the "Row of Ten Cards." Two of the book's sleight of hand tricks also use mind reading as an explanation for the effects. In a book about card manipulation in which approximately 15 tricks are described, devoting three of them to mentalism requiring only false shuffles and mathematical calculation indicates that Erdnase was fond of this type of magic.

Don't you also agree with that, Chris? And to answer your question, if Sanders was Erdnase, he wrote in a different style in the mine timbering books because he was hired to produce a style of language more acceptable to a mine timbering text. As you know, The Expert was self published and therefore he had free reign to write in any style he wished. And it is a style that utilizes humor, facetiousness, and vernacular language of minorities. These are aspects of writing that would not be acceptable in a mine timbering text. I have also provided examples of Sanders' writing style in this thread that demonstrate uncanny similarity to the Erdnase language from Demarest's article. The letter Sanders wrote to his parents is one such example, but re-writing it here again would be redundant.

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby lybrary » March 18th, 2018, 9:50 pm

Leonard Hevia wrote:And who are those Sanders supports that point to the "Mutus Nomen" trick and claim that is proof that Sanders was Erdnase? I haven't read anywhere of anybody making this claim. Who are those people? Do you have evidence of this?

Read this thread and you will find them.

Leonard Hevia wrote:"Mutus Nomen Dedit Cocis" is not one of the tricks included in The Expert. But the idea of reading minds with a self-working trick is featured in the "Row of Ten Cards." Two of the book's sleight of hand tricks also use mind reading as an explanation for the effects. In a book about card manipulation in which approximately 15 tricks are described, devoting three of them to mentalism requiring only false shuffles and mathematical calculation indicates that Erdnase was fond of this type of magic.
Don't you also agree with that, Chris?

No I don't agree with this at all, because if that is the line of argumentation, and you argue that he did write notes about magic in these notebooks, then one would expect to find a lot more and a lot more advanced magic. That is exactly why I think this trick does more harm to Sanders' case than it does good.

Leonard Hevia wrote:And to answer your question, if Sanders was Erdnase, he wrote in a different style in the mine timbering books because he was hired to produce a style of language more acceptable to a mine timbering text.

That is the biggest baloney I have heard in a long time. In my early career I was a scientist. I wrote a number of articles which were published in pretty respected peer reviewed science journals. I sat on NSF committees as expert to award millions of dollars to research projects. I was invited on panels at conferences. I represented Texas Instruments for two years at the SRC (Semiconductor Research Corporation). I have a science book published by Springer. I worked for Elsevier, the largest science publisher, and was the publisher for 20 science journals. I review for decades for several science journals. Never has anybody ever asked any scientist or engineer to write in a specific voice. Whoever made that statement has simply no clue about the engineering and science publishing world. I do. It was a good part of my career.

Leonard Hevia wrote:I have also provided examples of Sanders' writing style in this thread that demonstrate uncanny similarity to the Erdnase language from Demarest's article. The letter Sanders wrote to his parents is one such example, but re-writing it here again would be redundant.

Sorry, but those samples, and that letter has no resemblance to Erdnase. You are dreaming.
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Leonard Hevia » March 18th, 2018, 10:37 pm

lybrary wrote:
Leonard Hevia wrote:And who are those Sanders supports that point to the "Mutus Nomen" trick and claim that is proof that Sanders was Erdnase? I haven't read anywhere of anybody making this claim. Who are those people? Do you have evidence of this?

Read this thread and you will find them.


You again...since you have made the general assertion that supporters of Sanders' candidacy claim Mutus Nomen is evidence that he was Erdnase, the responsibility to provide their identities falls on your shoulders.



lybrary wrote:...you argue that he did write notes about magic in these notebooks, then one would expect to find a lot more and a lot more advanced magic. That is exactly why I think this trick does more harm to Sanders' case than it does good.


I made the argument, as did Demarest, that Mutus Nomen in Sanders' notebooks is undeniable evidence that he knew magic. Absolutely. Chris--are you aware that pages were torn out of Sanders' notebooks? If you had read Demarest's article you would have known that. Perhaps those missing pages might have contained notes on advanced card moves and Sanders covered his tracks? That there are no pages found in Sanders' notebooks dedicated to advanced card magic does not invalidate the possibility that he might be Erdnase.

lybrary wrote:In my early career I was a scientist. I wrote a number of articles which were published in pretty respected peer reviewed science journals. I sat on NSF committees as expert to award millions of dollars to research projects. I was invited on panels at conferences. I represented Texas Instruments for two years at the SRC (Semiconductor Research Corporation). I have a science book published by Springer. I worked for Elsevier, the largest science publisher, and was the publisher for 20 science journals. I review for decades for several science journals. Never has anybody ever asked any scientist or engineer to write in a specific voice. Whoever made that statement has simply no clue about the engineering and science publishing world. I do. It was a good part of my career.


Self-aggrandizement?

lybrary wrote:Sorry, but those samples, and that letter has no resemblance to Erdnase. You are dreaming.


That is your opinion, but their are other opinions that are just as valid as yours.

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby lybrary » March 18th, 2018, 11:44 pm

Leonard Hevia wrote:Self-aggrandizement?

Yes indeed, because you and Demarest obviously have no clue about engineering and science writing. That is my informed opinion.
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Leonard Hevia » March 18th, 2018, 11:58 pm

lybrary wrote:
Leonard Hevia wrote:Self-aggrandizement?

Yes indeed, because you and Demarest obviously have no clue about engineering and science writing. That is my informed opinion.


Please inform us when you are awarded your Nobel Prize in science. In the meantime, war, pestilence, famine, and disease still plague the world...

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Bill Mullins » March 19th, 2018, 12:27 am

lybrary wrote: But Sanders supporters usually point to that one trick and claim that this is proof that he is Erdnase.


I can't recall anyone other than yourself saying that the limited, circumstantial evidence we have for any of the main candidates "proves" anything. David Alexander, in his seminal article in Genii, said regarding Sanders "we cannot say with absolute certainty." Marty Demarest closed out his article by referencing "the man who was probably Erdnase."

Why would he use different voices for technical articles on mine-timbering and technical material on gambling and magic?


Because he was writing for distinctly different audiences.

If you study other authors who have written across different subjects you will notice that their writing does exhibit commonalities across genres and subjects. I suggest you study Hoffmann or Teale for example, two authors who have written on magic but also on other subjects.


Would there be any point to such an exercise? If I, for example, showed that Hoffman's legal writings and his magic writings were at recognizably different levels of sophistication, or that one used a more limited range of vocabulary than the other, would this change your opinion? Or would you find some reason to discount the conclusion?

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Zenner » March 19th, 2018, 7:16 am

lybrary wrote:Sanders supporters usually point to that one trick and claim that this is proof that he is Erdnase. It isn't. If anything it is proof he ain't him.


The Gallaway supporter points to one book and claims that this is proof that he is Erdnase. It isn't. If anything it is proof it ain't him. :lol:

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby lybrary » March 19th, 2018, 10:50 am

Zenner wrote:The Gallaway supporter points to one book and claims that this is proof that he is Erdnase. It isn't. If anything it is proof it ain't him. :lol:

The one book an author would be expected to at least own is the one he wrote himself. If I would have a choice of only one book my candidate could be shown to own it would be Expert. I am very happy we know Gallaway had a copy of Expert in his library.

Sanders was never asked to change his 'voice' nor did he write in different 'voices' himself. But more importantly he never wrote anything with a 'voice' similar to Erdnase. If you want to credibly argue that way then you have to demonstrate this with some accepted linguistic metrics. Please show with a meaningful comparison or analysis, using any applicable metrics you want to choose, that Sanders wrote anything like Erdnase.
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Zenner » March 19th, 2018, 12:33 pm

lybrary wrote:
Zenner wrote:The Gallaway supporter points to one book and claims that this is proof that he is Erdnase. It isn't. If anything it is proof it ain't him. :lol:

The one book an author would be expected to at least own is the one he wrote himself. If I would have a choice of only one book my candidate could be shown to own it would be Expert. I am very happy we know Gallaway had a copy of Expert in his library.


But Erdnase was a magician who had read every magic book available when researching his subject. Do you know of any magician who only has a copy of the book he wrote?

lybrary wrote:Sanders was never asked to change his 'voice' nor did he write in different 'voices' himself. But more importantly he never wrote anything with a 'voice' similar to Erdnase. If you want to credibly argue that way then you have to demonstrate this with some accepted linguistic metrics. Please show with a meaningful comparison or analysis, using any applicable metrics you want to choose, that Sanders wrote anything like Erdnase.


I am not defending Sanders!

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Bill Mullins » March 19th, 2018, 2:15 pm

lybrary wrote: nor did [Sanders] write in different 'voices' himself.

This is ridiculous statement.

Voice 1, from the 25th Anniversary book of the 1885 Class of Mines, of Columbia University.

"Once upon a time, as all good fairy tales begin, 94 callow, bashful and
hopeful youths met together by reason of an experience that was to
change the tenor of each existence and the entire course of the lives
of a majority of them, that was to take them as raw material and so
knead and mold and fashion and influence and instruct them that they
might be sent forth from the factory as from a furnace, the refined and
finished product of the old School of Mines of Columbia College. This
eventful gathering occurred at and near Oct. 1, 1881. And thus for good
or ill, for better or for worse, for affairs great and affairs small, our
"Class of '85" was organized and launched as an integral and concrete
fact in the existence of what is now Columbia University in the City of
New York."

Voice 2, from Letter to J. V. Brower, dated 4/23/1896. Reproduced in Brower, J. V., The Missouri River and Its Utmost Source. St. Paul: Pioneer Press, 1897 pp 178-179.

"In reply to the questions contained in your favor of the
17th inst., I take pleasure in forwarding the following Information.
Before beginning I will state, that I had written a letter before this one,
which was unsatisfactory, and so was not sent, for the reason that I
desired to be certain as to the derivation of the name of this state, and
have since been looking more closely into the matter, which will explain
the delay. Notwithstanding the assertion contained in "the late issue
of the ponderous nothingness" by a Chicago firm, and called "History
of Montana," that the name "Montana" is a purely classic word, it is
certain that such is true only in part. "

Voice 3, from "A Reference Scheme for Mine-Workings"

"AT some period during the operation of metalliferous and other commercially valuable mineral-deposits in connection with their underground mining, when the developments therein have become so extensive that their description is tedious and confusing, some scheme for naming or numbering the various workings and their parts is necessary for convenience of reference. A simple and symmetrical yet expansive system of classification must be devised, one that is capable of being extended to cover all possible exigencies and conditions of future operations within the property."

Voice 4, from his diary, as quoted in your ebook:

"I got started at 7.10 am. I took the load that I brought down to the house last night down onto the main road where the others are. While here mother and Louis drove up with the buggy from town, as I did not get home last night she became anxious about me and started out this morning to see if anything was the matter. Louis staid with me to come in town this eve while she went back to town, going up to the top of the range I got out a quantity of poles from the timber by the same means as yesterday. At 3 I started down the range with a load of 64 poles. When we got to Priest's house we stopped for dinner but started from there with 12 miles still to go, about 5, we got along allright until we got to the cross roads going through the diggins it was so dark that I could barely see the road by straining my eyes."

I know you will reject the comparison of poetry to prose. So let's look at the different "voices" that exist in his poetry, all from the reunion book mentioned above:

Example 1
"Yer tellygraft arrived to hand my peaceful rest to mar;
With its mishtherus hyrogliffs "G.S., M.P., G.R."
And p.d.q. it catches me -- there is no chance to shirk.
So I must corrugate me brow and get me down to work.
"Expect a poem," now ye do! Consarn yer blawsted nerve
(The only fun about it is that you too have to serve).
Here, I must give the wheels a turn, unwind the bloomin' coil,
Knock off a yard or two of rhyme and burn the midnight oil;
And mewed up here, like mewing Tom, while midnight hours enthuse,
Amuse the musing miners with the music of my muse.
With dithyrambic ructions and blanked pentameter verse,
Rambunctious hexameter frills, in rhyme that's bold and free,
I'll offer here the best I have to mon cherez frères d'amie;
I'll give a poem, sure I will, to curl your fringe of hair
And make you wish you ne'er had sent that tellygraft, I swear!"

Example 2
"Where downward sweeping to the sea the Yuba River flows
To gladden valleys far below with breath of melting snows;
From lands of vine-clad slopes and vales the wooded hills between
Of vales and slopes surpassing fair and clad in living green;
Bear Classmates all, from out my heart with fond affection stored,
I greet you as again you meet around the festal board;
I give my greetings to you, lads, from this spot where I am,
And send my love and blessings from beside the Yuba dam."

Example 3
"Ah, Eighty-five! affection turns
To that familiar name,
And love for Alma Mater burns,
An all-consuming flame.

Swift passed those years beneath Her roof,
As in review to seem
Like visions fair, the warp and woof
Of some enchanting dream.

Where'er Reunion finds us, boys,
We'll one and all contrive
To drink a cup to our storied joys
And to dear old Eighty-five."

The first is comic verse, the second a more or less standard poetic form, and the third sounds like the lyrics to an alma mater song.

He obviously can write it different voices. He is a writer in full command of his craft. His words and stylings are different in each case, but they also are appropriate for each case -- paying attention to the audience receiving the text, the message being conveyed, and the type of work being written.

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby lybrary » March 19th, 2018, 3:46 pm

Bill the linguist. I love it. These are not 'voices' these are simply different subjects and genres. That a poem will not sound like technical prose has nothing to do with 'voices'. They are two entirely different genres. Forget about analyzing his poems, we are talking about prose. That is what counts. Expert is prose. Sanders could be a wonderful poet. Doesn't make him one bit Erdnase. That he uses different words for different subjects and purposes is also trivial. You have to analyze much more inherent linguistic characteristics. But more importantly which one of the samples you are providing are you saying is the one that sounds like Erdnase?

All I see is somebody who wrote different things, technical prose, personal notebooks, letters, poems, ..., I don't see any Erdnase-like writing in there.
Last edited by lybrary on March 19th, 2018, 3:56 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby lybrary » March 19th, 2018, 3:54 pm

Zenner wrote:But Erdnase was a magician who had read every magic book available when researching his subject. Do you know of any magician who only has a copy of the book he wrote?

Peter playing the silly one. Let me help you out. We know with certainty that Gallaway had Expert, because it was found with his bookplate in it. That means we have solid proof that he indeed owned that book. We know he owned many other books due to his bio. He was a bookish person. In particular we know he had several gambling books. But we don't have a list of other titles he owned. We can make educated guesses based on the subjects he liked, say Dickens, and Poe, because those are two authors he mentions, but we don't have a list of titles he owned. All we know he owned a lot of books.

Which magic and gambling books did Sanders own? We have no idea if he owned any. Which ones did E.S. Andrews own? We have no idea. Even with Benedict we don't know for sure which ones he actually owned. Since he was a magician we expect him to own some, but which? All we know he had a friend with a good library of magic books. But also there, can you give us a confirmed list of the books his friend had?
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Leonard Hevia » March 20th, 2018, 6:20 am

Does anyone who posts here have an example of Gallaway' s writing and would be willing to post a few sentences or a paragraph?

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Zenner » March 20th, 2018, 9:36 am

lybrary wrote:
Zenner wrote:But Erdnase was a magician who had read every magic book available when researching his subject. Do you know of any magician who only has a copy of the book he wrote?

Peter playing the silly one. Let me help you out. We know with certainty that Gallaway had Expert, because it was found with his bookplate in it. That means we have solid proof that he indeed owned that book. We know he owned many other books due to his bio. He was a bookish person. In particular we know he had several gambling books. But we don't have a list of other titles he owned. We can make educated guesses based on the subjects he liked, say Dickens, and Poe, because those are two authors he mentions, but we don't have a list of titles he owned. All we know he owned a lot of books.


Silly one? Moi? My turn to be called names now, is it? We were talking about magic books. Perhaps I could have made it clearer for you. "Every magic book available" versus only a copy of Expert? Seems to be clear to me.

That Gallaway had other books has no bearing on the question of him being Erdnase. Of course he had other books - who would have a book plate printed if he only had one book?

Others had noted that Gallaway owned a copy of Expert before you came on the scene. But only you claims that it is evidence that he wrote the book. How many others had a copy of a book published for the general public? Does that make ALL of them a candidate for the authorship of it?

You squirm about, twisting evidence to suit your claims, and you expect to be believed? You have totally dismissed Smith's evidence, trying to make us believe that Erdnase was a bald 33 year-old from Ohio. Silly one? Moi?

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Bill Mullins » March 20th, 2018, 10:56 am

Leonard Hevia wrote:Does anyone who posts here have an example of Gallaway' s writing and would be willing to post a few sentences or a paragraph?

These are Chicago composite hour costs and are to be used by the students of this school for exercise purposes only. In actual estimating, use the hour costs which prevail in your own shop.

Add to above hour costs a profit of 15% and an additional 5% for sales to the total estimate. On material or any other items of outside purchase add a profit of 10% and an additional 2% for sales to the total estimate.

All the time allowances in this book are indicated by decimals, the hour being divided into 10 units of 6 minutes each. For quick and accurate work the decimal method is the only one to use. For the convenience of those who are not familar with the decimal system we show below the unit amplified into minutes and the correct way to indicate the decimal in figures.

Practically all the work which travels through a printing plant has its inception in the composing room. If the work is not properly planned and started right in this important department trouble will follow the work all along its way in every other department.

Work which is done in the composing room may be classified into two divisions: that work which must be done by hand and the work which can and should be done by machine.

The unit for type dimensions is the pica. There are six picas to the inch. Thus if the type size of a page were 4x6 inches it would be designated as being 24x36 picas. Page dimensions should always be designated by picas.

The body size of type is designated by points -- there being twelve points to the pica. There being six picas to the inch, it naturally follows that there would be six 12-point lines of solid type to the inch.

Before the introduction of the point system of type manufacture, sizes of type were designated by names. The different sizes of type bodies, together with their former names, as well as the number of solid lines to the inch, follows:

Other sizes which are stepped up 6 points at a time are cast in metal up to 120 points, while there is practically no limit to the size which can be had in wood type.


Yes, the "voice" of Erdnase leaps from the page.

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby lybrary » March 20th, 2018, 11:34 am

Zenner wrote:Others had noted that Gallaway owned a copy of Expert before you came on the scene. But only you claims that it is evidence that he wrote the book. How many others had a copy of a book published for the general public? Does that make ALL of them a candidate for the authorship of it?

The ownership of Expert is only ONE of MANY facts that formed my conclusion that he is Erdnase. You should read my ebook. Then you can actually make informed comments. https://www.lybrary.com/the-hunt-for-er ... 73843.html

Which magic and gambling books did Benedict own?

The best example of Gallaway writing like Erdnase can be found in the preface to "Estimating for Printers". Here is the entire preface with some portions highlighted. (BTW, I have paid for the digitization of the entire book and it is freely available at Harvard University http://nrs.harvard.edu/urn-3:FHCL.HOUGH:17706583 )
FIRST OF ALL
Before beginning to analyze the text matter in this book it is important that you read every word of these two introductory pages.
This is a practical book—it is not padded with ponderous editorial homilies, old newspaper clippings, interest tables or platitudinous dissertations on the uplift of the printing industry. It contains 120 pages and every page is packed with information which is expressed in print-shop English and which will be of help to the printer who is endowed with good, common, every-day horse sense.
The book tells you nothing about algebra, geometry, trigonometry, calculus, logarithms or astronomical mathematics. But it does tell you in understandable English and in the arithmetic of the business man how to engineer the manufacture of a prospective job of printing and how to determine the price for which it should sell. It is quite possible for an intelligent and a studious man to develop himself into a first-class estimator if he will diligently apply himself to the study of this book.
The author is a practical printing estimator—not a cost accountant nor an efficiency expert. For more than thirty years he has been confronted with the serious business of earning his livelihood in such positions as foreman, superintendent, salesman, purchasing agent and estimator in printing plants ranging from the medium size shop to the largest in the country. Add to this his experience as an instructor in printing estimating and it will readily be seen that he enjoys a peculiar advantage in that he has learned what the printing estimator needs to know and how to impart that knowledge to those who want it.
The book speaks in the language of hours and minutes— not dollars and cents. For that reason its use is applicable in any print shop in the world, regardless of where it may be located. It gives the time allowance on operations which, when multiplied by your hour rates, gives you the cost of the job. In a few instances, such as tabbing, punching and other minor operations, the figures are given in money, based on Chicago prices. The amounts involved in these operations are so inconsequential that they could be handled in no other way.
The book does not lay down any hard and inflexible theories. It does not take away your right of initiative or your privilege of thinking for yourself.
The author wants to call your particular attention to the section on imposition, because you can never hope to be a good estimator until you have mastered that subject. At first sight of the diagrams you will probably become discouraged and may possibly conclude that the subject is so profound and mysterious there is no use of even making an attempt to comprehend it. When you get in that frame of mind just turn to the first paragraph on page 7 and in a few minutes the mystery of imposition has vanished into thin air.
The book is coat-pocket size and you should make it your constant companion. It is printed on a 28-pound ledger paper. Wherever the “breaks" of make-up would permit, “memorandum" spaces have been left for the insertion of data of a personal nature that may be valuable for future reference. Thus, the longer the book is in your possession the more valuable and personal it will become.
This introduction is written for the purpose of inspiring a feeling of confidence that will lead the reader to convince himself that the author of the book knows his stuff and that the information contained in the book is both authentic and reliable.


Compare it to this portion of Erdnase's preface:
In offering this book to the public the writer uses no sophistry as an excuse for its existence. The hypocritical cant of reformed (?) gamblers, or whining, mealy-mouthed pretensions of piety, are not foisted as a justification for imparting the knowledge it contains.

As pointed out before by Olsson and myself there is a surprising match in religious vocabulary and the expression 'imparting the/that knowledge' which is a rather rare one and both use it in the preface.
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby lybrary » March 20th, 2018, 12:35 pm

We have a number of facts about Gallaway and magic/gambling:

1) Owned "Expert at the Card Table", a magic and gambling book.
2) Owned several other gambling books.
3) Fondness of magic and gambling related expressions: "vanished into thin air", "The Magic Wand", "subterfuge", "hard luck"
4) Question by Jay Marshall to Gallaway's daughter-in-law: "Did he have any books on gambling,…or card tricks?" Answer: "He could have had…he was quite a guy…"
5) We know Gallaway gave a stage performance at a company show in 1924 entitled "The Magic Wand".
6) We know he worked as orator and managed circus sideshows in the mid 1890s.
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby lybrary » March 20th, 2018, 6:10 pm

To add to Gallaway's magic phrases, I found today two more from a recently uncovered booklet of Printing Practice Gallaway wrote for R.R. Donnelley:

- "It is the application of the science of measurement to composition; it is not magic."
- "... like the conjurer who takes white rabbits out of a silk hat;"
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Leonard Hevia » March 20th, 2018, 8:06 pm

lybrary wrote:The best example of Gallaway writing like Erdnase can be found in the preface to "Estimating for Printers".

As pointed out before by Olsson and myself there is a surprising match in religious vocabulary and the expression 'imparting the/that knowledge' which is a rather rare one and both use it in the preface.


Yes--both use "imparting the/that knowledge"in the preface--but which came first: the chicken or the egg? Estimating for Printers was published in 1927. That means Gallaway had 25 years to study the The Expert and internalize its writing style to amalgamate it with his, including copying the preface verbatim. This might make Gallaway's book an interesting stylistic copy of the The Expert --but that's about all. Any writing samples by Gallaway after the publication of the The Expert should not be admissible evidence. I want to see samples of Gallaway's writing before 1902.

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby lybrary » March 20th, 2018, 9:43 pm

Leonard Hevia wrote:Yes--both use "imparting the/that knowledge"in the preface--but which came first: the chicken or the egg? Estimating for Printers was published in 1927. That means Gallaway had 25 years to study the The Expert and internalize its writing style to amalgamate it with his, including copying the preface verbatim. This might make Gallaway's book an interesting stylistic copy of the The Expert --but that's about all. Any writing samples by Gallaway after the publication of the The Expert should not be admissible evidence.

Yet another one of those ridiculously silly arguments. On one side you and others have argued for months that Gallaway had no interest in magic, and now you say he somehow absorbed the style of Erdnase and is mimicking it 25 years later in a book on print estimating. It is such a stupid line of reasoning that it is hard to contemplate. It makes zero sense. Please have a conversation with people who have studied language and linguistics. But I am happy that you agree that Gallaway's writing does closely match Erdnase's.
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Leonard Hevia » March 20th, 2018, 10:44 pm

lybrary wrote:Yet another one of those ridiculously silly arguments. On one side you and others have argued for months that Gallaway had no interest in magic, and now you say he somehow absorbed the style of Erdnase and is mimicking it 25 years later in a book on print estimating. It is such a stupid line of reasoning that it is hard to contemplate. It makes zero sense. Please have a conversation with people who have studied language and linguistics. But I am happy that you agree that Gallaway's writing does closely match Erdnase's.


Gallaway published his book 25 years after The Expert, therefore it is certainly possible he nicked parts of it that he liked and put it in his printing book. After all, The Expert was in his library for a long time. College students do it all the time. It's called plagiarizing. The stolen material closely matches the original. And I never said Gallaway had no interest in magic, simply that he was not Erdnase. There were many people in the early 20th century that had an interest in magic, filled there shelves with magic books--but were not Erdnase.

Your arguments for Gallaway have always been thin, and you have camouflaged the inherent weaknesses with linguistic pseudo science and his copy of The Expert to compensate for your lack of solid evidence. If Ben Franklin were here and read this thread, he would remark that an ounce of solid evidence is worth a pound of linguistic pseudo science. If you had discovered something more compelling that connected Gallaway to Erdnase, there would have been no need for you to call Dr. Ollson--probably in the middle of the night when he was asleep.

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby lybrary » March 21st, 2018, 8:24 am

Leonard Hevia wrote:It's called plagiarizing.

Ha, ha, ha! You don't even know what plagiarism is. That's too funny. But you are calling linguistics a pseudo-science. I will stop arguing with you. With a pre-Erdnase Gallaway text you would then argue that Erdnase plagiarized Gallaway, still no proof they are one and the same.

[Edited by RK to remove personal insults ]
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Leonard Hevia » March 21st, 2018, 9:41 am

Pre-Erdnase writing samples from Gallaway that resemble The Expert would be much more compelling evidence than any post Erdnase work. Certainly much more compelling than the linguistic pseudo science you have dumped here by the truckload.

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Bill Mullins » March 21st, 2018, 4:39 pm

Bill Mullins wrote:Chris's new newsletter deals with more antecedents of effects in Erdnase that appear in the German literature; specifically, "The Three Aces" and "The Card and Handkerchief".

"The Three Aces" is the trick where two aces are used to mask the central heart pip in the Ace of Hearts to make it look like a diamond. Previously, masking whole pips had been done to change the apparent value of a card, but this had been thought to be the first time it was used to change the suit.

Reinhard Mueller has located an earlier trick in which the same thing was done -- using two cards to mask heart to make it look like a diamond. It is in "The Invisible Hiker" in H. F. C. Suhr's Der Amateurzauberer, 1900.


Suhr had an earlier book, Der Kartenkünstler, published in 1896. I had asked Denis Behr if he was familiar with it, and he's rounded up a copy and started indexing it for his Conjuring Archive website (which you should know about).

The masking of the AH to look like the AD appears there, although under the title "Das verwandelte As" (The Transformed Ace).

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby John Bodine » March 21st, 2018, 7:06 pm

lybrary wrote:
Leonard Hevia wrote:It's called plagiarizing.

Ha, ha, ha! You don't even know what plagiarism is. That's too funny. But you are calling linguistics a pseudo-science. I will stop arguing with you, because you are too stupid to have an argument with. With a pre-Erdnase Gallaway text you would then argue that Erdnase plagiarized Gallaway, still no proof they are one and the same. You are a joke, a sad joke.



Really Chris? The name calling you dish is quite appalling and from what I’ve read here, you are the only person calling others names and disparaging remarks. Grow up.

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby lybrary » March 21st, 2018, 7:10 pm

Bill Mullins wrote:Suhr had an earlier book, Der Kartenkünstler, published in 1896. I had asked Denis Behr if he was familiar with it, and he's rounded up a copy and started indexing it for his Conjuring Archive website (which you should know about).

The masking of the AH to look like the AD appears there, although under the title "Das verwandelte As" (The Transformed Ace).

A digital version of this book is already in preparation here at Lybrary.com. I think the correct publishing date is 1895 not 1896.
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Bill Mullins » March 21st, 2018, 10:32 pm

lybrary wrote: A digital version of this book is already in preparation here at Lybrary.com. I think the correct publishing date is 1895 not 1896.


Sources vary. The University of Warsaw Library says 1871; the copy being indexed by Behr is 1895; Zauberpedia says 1896. I'd bet you and Denis are correct.

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Bob Coyne » March 21st, 2018, 11:12 pm

To my ear, Sanders and Erdnase have *very* similar writing styles. It's not just the use of language but the underlying personality and modes of thought that shine through -- the overall writing "voice". For both there's an appeal to exactness, logic, and rigor -- I think attributable to Sanders training as an engineer. There's a strong attention to detail, also part of his engineering background.

But conversely, both take great pleasure in the nuances of language and use it in a very playful manner. Hence the heavy use of "scare quotes", parenthetical (?) punctuation, colloquial speech and accents ( "langwidge", "Get yo' own han' "), alliteration ("wiles and wickedness", "wicked waste"), etc. And subject-matter-wise, they sometimes even cross into each other's domain with Erdnase invoking mining for patter ("metals as gold, silver, or copper...prospected area") and Sanders rhapsodizing on gambling themes ("Make simple faro, poker plays...").

This combination of rigor and playfulness is part of what makes Erdnase's writing so compelling. And Sanders writings show the same attributes applied to a wide range of topics. There's great variety of subject matter and styles in his mining books, his Columbia yearbook writing, and his Montana historical and linguistics studies. I find it very easy to imagine EATCT as a Sanders treatment of yet another specialized domain, that of card table artifice.

I think the similarity in writing combined with all the other circumstantial evidence (interest in magic, name as anagram, interest in anagrams, involvement with gambling, purchase of decks of cards, physical size matching Smith's recollections, etc) makes Sanders by far the strongest candidate.

Over time, I've compiled a list of excerpts where the similarities jumped out of me -- some of which I've posted in this thread before, and some of which others have also pointed out. Here are a few culled (!) from that larger list manifesting the same writing voice and sensibility.

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Sanders(MT): "the mines operated under these methods present EVERY KNOWN characteristic of lode formation."
Erdnase: "...describing with detail and illustration EVERY KNOWN expedient, manoeuvre and strategm of the expert card handler

Erdnase: It is IN EVERY WAY WORTHY of the PRACTICE necessary to acquire it
Sanders(MT): good mining PRACTICE makes use of the framed set as being stronger and IN EVERY WAY BETTER.

Erdnase: A CAREFUL PERUSAL OF THE FOLLOWING definitions will save much time and perplexity in COMPREHENDING the processes described:
Sanders: A PERUSAL OF THE FOLLOWING excerpts from the text will CONVINCE a fair minded unbiased mining engineer

Erdnase: Many of the methods of card manipulation explained in this work originated with us, and we have, in describing the various processes and conditions, used CERTAIN TERMS for the SAKE OF BREVITY, to DESIGNATE the particular matters referred to.
Sanders(RSFMW): for the SAKE OF BREVITY in description, CERTAIN SYMBOLS letters or figures, are employed to DESIGNATE the various mine workings, as follows:
Sanders(RFSMW): they are thus marked, CERTAIN SYMBOLS may be discarded for the SAKE OF BREVITY, and only such as are essential to the description of the working be employed.

Erdnase: running down so many cards WILL RARELY BE ATTEMPTED, but it shows the possibilities of the SYSTEM.
Sanders(MT): the halved SYSTEM of framing, as explained under vertical shafts, IS RARELY USED for the inclines...

Erdnase: never fails in PRODUCING a most PLEASING and brilliant EFFECT.
Sanders(MT): when thus placed the passage PRESENTS a PLEASING APPEARANCE.

Erdnase: It is almost AN AXIOM that a novice will win his first stake.
Erdnase: It is an excellent manner of holding the deck for the true shuffle, and SHOULD BE STRICTLY ADHERED TO ON ALL OCCASIONS.
Sanders(MT): "this latter is AN AXIOM in mining during this period of development, and SHOULD BE INVARIABLY FOLLOWED WHERE POSSIBLE."

Erdnase: The INVIOLABLE RULE of the professional IS uniformity of action
Erdnase: The cautious and prudent expert MAKES IT A RULE to never “hold out,” or palm extra cards...
Sanders: THE RULE SHOULD BE that the size of workings must be ample to carry out their purposes PROPERLY, but not larger than is necessary for ...

Erdnase: The CORRECT POSITIONS and movements can be ACCURATELY SECURED, and the performer becomes his own critic.
Sanders: the joints thus framed will be in their CORRECT RELATIVE POSITIONS, exact in size and shape, and they will JOIN ACCURATELY with those ....

Erdnase: though this method IS now BY FAR THE MORE prevalent among men who play for money
Erdnase: The riffle ... IS BY FAR THE MORE prevalent method in use among regular card players.
Sanders(MT): this station, while requiring more excavating to construct, IS BY FAR THE MOST economical in the end

Erdnase: THE AVERAGE card player
Sanders: THE AVERAGE mining engineer

Erdnase: Many mechanical CONTRIVANCES termed “hold outs” have been invented to aid the card player
Sanders: and all other CONTRIVANCES whatsoever for bringing together from two or more directions ... (mine timbering)

Erdnase: The LONGITUDINAL Shift
Sanders: and their designations marked within the main LONGITUDINAL workings

Erdnase: ordinary METHODS OF stocking, LOCATING AND SECURING
Sanders(MT): the METHODS OF LOCATING AND ALIGNING the sets are those used for...

Erdnase: This example MIGHT WELL BE TERMED a fancy cull
Sanders: by WHAT MIGHT BE TERMED an enclosing and protecting shield
Sanders: the excavations resulting from the extraction of ores with WHAT MIGHT BE TERMED open blocks...

Erdnase: We naturally began to imbibe WISDOM IN COPIOUS DRAUGHTS at the customary sucker rates. ...and the sum of our present KNOWLEDGE is proffered in this volume
Sanders: We did a lot of HUSTLIN' then and GAINED A HEAP OF KNOWLEDGE and picked VAST WISDOM up IN CHUNKS in many various lines.

Erdnase: A self-satisfied unlicked cub with a fairly fat bank roll was TOO GOOD a thing TO BE PASSED UP.
Sanders: and the joke, TOO GOOD TO BE PERMITTED TO DIE EARLY
Sanders: Certainly in part it is TOO GOOD TO KEEP, and in a spirit of benevolence ....
Sanders: those dear bygone times WERE TOO JOYOUS TO LAST
Sanders: whereby hangs a tale which Sanders says is TOO LONG and BOLD TO relate here

Erdnase: Self- styled "ex-PROFESSIONALS" have regaled the public with astounding disclosures of their former WILES and WICKEDNESS, and have proven a wonderful knowledge of the subject by EXHUMING some antiquated moss-covered ruses
Sanders (MINING LETTER): Certainly in part it is too good to keep, and in a spirit of benevolence and as an offering upon the shrine of PROFESSIONAL goodwill toward PROFESSIONAL brethren, the following extracts have been EXHUMED from their obscure PLACE OF BURIAL..... ...And how many reports presuming to describe mining properties are written that should never have been penned – because of the WICKED WASTE of ink resulting therefrom.


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