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by Bill Mullins
April 10th, 2018, 4:58 pm
Forum: General
Topic: ERDNASE
Replies: 6896
Views: 2025512

Re: ERDNASE

Further to that, if you compare the lettering on the illustrations they all look similar, for all illustrations. Eoin O'Hare has uploaded all the figures to a single page . Compare the "g" in Fig. 33 (big loop, small descender) to the "g" in Fig. 32 (small loop, big descender). ...
by Bill Mullins
April 10th, 2018, 4:36 pm
Forum: General
Topic: ERDNASE
Replies: 6896
Views: 2025512

Re: ERDNASE

lybrary wrote:But we may get an interesting new set of data. Joe Crist just published his version of Expert, where each illustration was exchanged with a photo showing his hands.


David Ben has already gone down this road, with The Experts at the Card Table (photographs by Julie Eng.)
by Bill Mullins
April 10th, 2018, 4:33 pm
Forum: General
Topic: ERDNASE
Replies: 6896
Views: 2025512

Re: ERDNASE

but then again I am not an illustrator. I am not a linguistic I am not an expert on the pre WWI printing technology I am not a lawyer I am not a specialist on [E. S. Andrews]. I am not an expert [on handwriting analysis] I am not an expert on [W. E. Sanders] I am not a pro magician I am not a nativ...
by Bill Mullins
April 10th, 2018, 3:21 pm
Forum: Buzz
Topic: New John Thompson Book
Replies: 118
Views: 16557

Re: New John Thompson Book

Denis Behr wrote:Here's a performance snippet of one of those miracles: http://www.conjuringarchive.com/storage/gifs/table.gif


Have you considered one of the low-calorie beers?
by Bill Mullins
April 10th, 2018, 12:55 am
Forum: General
Topic: ERDNASE
Replies: 6896
Views: 2025512

Re: ERDNASE

How do you know that the left-hand proximal phalange isn't inclined towards the viewing plane? Thanks, Chris, for making my point for me. We don't know in either this illustration, or in Fig 79, whether the part being measured is in the plane of the drawing or not. So it is impossible to make accur...
by Bill Mullins
April 9th, 2018, 1:17 pm
Forum: General
Topic: ERDNASE
Replies: 6896
Views: 2025512

Re: ERDNASE

If you want to argue that Sanders was an outlier, 5'9" tall but small hands, then you have to present evidence. The one making the argument that Erdnase had small hands is you, and you are doing it from drawings that aren't accurate enough to support any conclusions along those lines. They are...
by Bill Mullins
April 9th, 2018, 11:49 am
Forum: General
Topic: ERDNASE
Replies: 6896
Views: 2025512

Re: ERDNASE

[quote=="lybrary"]But the vast majority of people do conform to these proportions with reasonably small variations.[/quote] The standard deviation of height from the document I linked to earlier was 2-3/4" inches. The standard deviation of hand size was 1.01 cm. The ratio of height to...
by Bill Mullins
April 9th, 2018, 11:07 am
Forum: General
Topic: ERDNASE
Replies: 6896
Views: 2025512

Re: ERDNASE

I am surprised that, with all the engineers we have in this forum, we cannot verify the proportions of a hand represented in excess of a hundred times. What is surprising is that someone would look at a single drawing from a set of dozens, in which dimensions aren't consistent from illustration to ...
by Bill Mullins
April 8th, 2018, 11:33 pm
Forum: General
Topic: ERDNASE
Replies: 6896
Views: 2025512

Re: ERDNASE

Sanders is too tall, and he has the wrong hair and eye color. It can't get any clearer. Gallaway doesn't know any sleight of hand, and has no reason to use "Erdnase" as a pseudonym. His writing isn't sprinkled with foreign words and phrases to the extent Erdnase's is. He's too young. He i...
by Bill Mullins
April 8th, 2018, 11:32 pm
Forum: General
Topic: ERDNASE
Replies: 6896
Views: 2025512

Re: ERDNASE

I take the length of the hand and multiply it by ten to get the height of the person.
Image
by Bill Mullins
April 8th, 2018, 11:16 pm
Forum: General
Topic: ERDNASE
Replies: 6896
Views: 2025512

Re: ERDNASE

It's still unclear how you measured the hand in figure 79. There's no way to know where the wrist is located. So my questions are: 1) how are you estimating it? 2) how much additional error do you think that introduces? In my ebook I have an illustration which clearly shows where I start my wrist m...
by Bill Mullins
April 8th, 2018, 10:42 pm
Forum: General
Topic: ERDNASE
Replies: 6896
Views: 2025512

Re: ERDNASE

one can measure the length of the illustrated hand in Expert, and then with that derive an estimate of Erdnase's height. Using illustration 79 for the back palm, where the hand is straight, Why do you assume the hand is straight? If you backpalm a card, the knuckles between the metacarpals and the ...
by Bill Mullins
April 8th, 2018, 6:29 pm
Forum: General
Topic: ERDNASE
Replies: 6896
Views: 2025512

Re: ERDNASE

To the best of my knowledge, the only convention appearance by Marshall Smith was the 1947 SAM Convention in Chicago that May. The program includes a photo of Smith circa 1902, one of his paintings, and an article by Martin Gardner, The Mystery of Erdnase (reprinted in Darwin Ortiz's THE ANNOTATED ...
by Bill Mullins
April 8th, 2018, 3:39 pm
Forum: General
Topic: ERDNASE
Replies: 6896
Views: 2025512

Re: ERDNASE

And regarding what is written on the title page: "drawings from life". A photo is obviously "from life". It is a snapshot of life. Tracing a photo doesn't change that. Therefore tracing photos are "drawings from life". Said no one ever who has studied art. For example,...
by Bill Mullins
April 8th, 2018, 12:13 pm
Forum: General
Topic: ERDNASE
Replies: 6896
Views: 2025512

Re: ERDNASE

lybrary wrote:Note: I am sure Bill Mullins will now show us that there was a tall man who had tiny hands.


Since you asked . . .

Trump's hands are 7.25" = 159 mm. By your methods, he should be 159 cm tall = 5' 2-1/2". He's 6'3".
by Bill Mullins
April 7th, 2018, 10:38 am
Forum: General
Topic: ERDNASE
Replies: 6896
Views: 2025512

Re: ERDNASE

Bill Mullins wrote:FWIW, Gallaway's 1918 Passport application says his height was 5' 8-1/2".


This is a typo. It should read "Sanders' 1918 Passport application says his height was 5' 8-1/2"."
by Bill Mullins
April 6th, 2018, 11:58 pm
Forum: General
Topic: ERDNASE
Replies: 6896
Views: 2025512

Re: ERDNASE

Chris and Olsson both try to suggest that Sanders is not a "book person". Olsson says, "I could not find a single reference to a book that he read . . . . He refers occasionally to reading, but only in general terms." Chris says "So far we have not found a single mention in ...
by Bill Mullins
April 6th, 2018, 11:38 pm
Forum: General
Topic: ERDNASE
Replies: 6896
Views: 2025512

Re: ERDNASE

FWIW, Gallaway's 1918 Passport application says his height was 5' 8-1/2". You will have to excuse that updates on new information about other candidates is on a lower priority and happens less frequently than my updates on stuff related to Gallaway. It bears directly on the Gallaway case. It we...
by Bill Mullins
April 6th, 2018, 11:34 pm
Forum: General
Topic: ERDNASE
Replies: 6896
Views: 2025512

Re: ERDNASE

lybrary wrote: It is impossible to change one's apparent height by much. A man can increase his apparent height by perhaps an inch or so using shoes with higher heels. But it is practically impossible to reduce it. It is what it is.


Oh really?
by Bill Mullins
April 6th, 2018, 6:00 pm
Forum: General
Topic: ERDNASE
Replies: 6896
Views: 2025512

Re: ERDNASE

Chris -- you've made a huge issue of the fact that ebooks are wonderful because you can update them when new information comes along. You've updated the book at least 3 times since this discussion, and the point involved is a pretty big one, and extraordinarily relevant. It's one of the few FACTS ab...
by Bill Mullins
April 6th, 2018, 4:34 pm
Forum: General
Topic: ERDNASE
Replies: 6896
Views: 2025512

Re: ERDNASE

Blatant lies that you are trying to promulgate, Bob. Here's a blatant lie, from Chris's ebook: "The formula is simple. Find an Andrews, preferably an E.S. Andrews, who is related to Louis Dalrymple, and who meets the basic age and gender requirements of Erdnase. Nobody has been found to this d...
by Bill Mullins
April 6th, 2018, 4:23 pm
Forum: General
Topic: ERDNASE
Replies: 6896
Views: 2025512

Re: ERDNASE

Still waiting to learn the origins of the quotes mentioned here . Do they appear in works bylined by Gallaway? Or are they from the earlier book from Lanston that holds some of the same lines, which you seem to have assumed is also by Gallaway, but could be by a separate person, whom Gallaway copied...
by Bill Mullins
April 5th, 2018, 4:15 pm
Forum: General
Topic: ERDNASE
Replies: 6896
Views: 2025512

Re: ERDNASE

Working backwards - is there some evidence of the magic patter/presentations offered in Expert being used about the time of publication? I don't think so. There is very little mention of Erdnase at all in the magic literature up until the 1920s, and I don't think any of it mentions someone using th...
by Bill Mullins
April 4th, 2018, 11:45 pm
Forum: General
Topic: ERDNASE
Replies: 6896
Views: 2025512

Re: ERDNASE

jkeyes -- The entire passage: "some writers will tend to use longer words than other writers, or words with a more latinate or germanic or hellenic origin. In Expert, for example, there is a paucity of words of Greek origin (we see very few prefixes such as anthro-, bio-, morph-, demo, philo-, ...
by Bill Mullins
April 4th, 2018, 5:06 pm
Forum: General
Topic: ERDNASE
Replies: 6896
Views: 2025512

Re: ERDNASE

For Bob's files: Erdnase: Self-styled "ex- professionals " have regaled the public with astounding disclosures of their former wiles and wickedness, and have proven a wonderful knowledge of the subject by exhuming some antiquated moss-covered ruses as well known as nursery rhymes, and even...
by Bill Mullins
April 4th, 2018, 3:26 pm
Forum: General
Topic: ERDNASE
Replies: 6896
Views: 2025512

Re: ERDNASE

(missed the edit window) He says that the author of "Copyfitting" claims to have originated the term "square pica", a unit of area used by the printer, and that this is relevant since Erdnase originated several technical terms. Unfortunately, "square pica" had been orig...
by Bill Mullins
April 4th, 2018, 3:04 pm
Forum: General
Topic: ERDNASE
Replies: 6896
Views: 2025512

Re: ERDNASE

You relish quibbling over semantics, but I suggest that you focus on providing the source for those Gallaway lines that Bill requested. I would like to see your source for this material as well, otherwise it will appear as if you created it. Leonard -- do you think these are fabricated quotes? Yes-...
by Bill Mullins
April 4th, 2018, 2:32 pm
Forum: General
Topic: ERDNASE
Replies: 6896
Views: 2025512

Re: ERDNASE

I seriously doubt that Olsson would consider any of the words you mentioned above to be "of Greek Origin" The origin of a word is determined not by John Olsson's opinion or consideration, but by the language it comes from. Standard dictionaries trace the etymologies of all of the above wo...
by Bill Mullins
April 4th, 2018, 12:53 pm
Forum: General
Topic: ERDNASE
Replies: 6896
Views: 2025512

Re: ERDNASE

Olsson's analysis says "In Expert , for example, there is a paucity of words of Greek origin." Estimating for Printers has on page 3 the following words of Greek origin: practical, geometry, trigonometry, astronomical, mathematics, hours, theories, diagrams. Page 4 is not quite so dense wi...
by Bill Mullins
April 4th, 2018, 12:18 pm
Forum: General
Topic: ERDNASE
Replies: 6896
Views: 2025512

Re: ERDNASE

Leonard Hevia wrote: You relish quibbling over semantics, but I suggest that you focus on providing the source for those Gallaway lines that Bill requested. I would like to see your source for this material as well, otherwise it will appear as if you created it.


Leonard -- do you think these are fabricated quotes?
by Bill Mullins
April 3rd, 2018, 6:21 pm
Forum: General
Topic: ERDNASE
Replies: 6896
Views: 2025512

Re: ERDNASE

Since you denigrated the printer's profession that they are not engineers, Your characterization, not mine. If you feel that making it clear that printer and engineering are two different and distinct jobs is denigrating to printers, then it would seem that YOU see engineering as superior in some w...
by Bill Mullins
April 3rd, 2018, 6:09 pm
Forum: General
Topic: ERDNASE
Replies: 6896
Views: 2025512

Re: ERDNASE

Those are all engineers who proudly carry the Ing. title and are respected and appreciated as engineers, despite the fact that you think they are not 'real' engineers. They are. If Austrians consider your father an engineer, good for them - I won't argue the point. I was responding to your specific...
by Bill Mullins
April 3rd, 2018, 5:24 pm
Forum: General
Topic: ERDNASE
Replies: 6896
Views: 2025512

Re: ERDNASE

It's not that they are irrelevant. Are we sure that the copyright ownership was transferred to Drake, or merely the right to reprint the book? This ground has been covered in depth. Here is the status of the copyright: It was applied for in Feb 1902. Richard Hatch got the application from the Librar...
by Bill Mullins
April 3rd, 2018, 4:16 pm
Forum: General
Topic: ERDNASE
Replies: 6896
Views: 2025512

Re: ERDNASE

@jkeyes -- Have you read the entire thread? or articles by Richard Hatch ( Magic , Dec 1999) or David Alexander ( Genii Jan 2000) or Marty Demarest ( Genii Sep 2011, which includes a reprint of the David Alexander article)? Or The Man Who Was Erdnase ? The reason I ask is that you are asking questio...
by Bill Mullins
April 3rd, 2018, 4:04 pm
Forum: General
Topic: ERDNASE
Replies: 6896
Views: 2025512

Re: ERDNASE

In Austria and Germany there a millions of engineers, who are legally entitled to carry the title 'Ing.' for Ingenieur (meaning engineer) who did not go to college or university. They go to a special high-school and after a certain number of years in their profession they are allowed to carry the e...
by Bill Mullins
April 3rd, 2018, 3:19 pm
Forum: General
Topic: ERDNASE
Replies: 6896
Views: 2025512

Re: ERDNASE

jkeyes -- my post was specifically in response to Chris's statements that engineers were products of trade schools and apprenticeship, meant to denigrate Sanders. This was demonstrably not so. Again, if Gallaway wanted to call himself an engineer, he could do so, but if the word has a generally acce...
by Bill Mullins
April 3rd, 2018, 1:20 pm
Forum: General
Topic: ERDNASE
Replies: 6896
Views: 2025512

Re: ERDNASE

Gallaway considered himself an engineer. R.R. Donnelley, one of the largest printing companies in the US at that time, if not the largest, referred to students who went through their apprentice program as printing engineers. Where does it say that you can't call yourself an engineer unless you obta...
by Bill Mullins
April 3rd, 2018, 1:17 pm
Forum: General
Topic: ERDNASE
Replies: 6896
Views: 2025512

Re: ERDNASE

Chris -- from where do the following quotes come? I don't find them in Estimating for Printers , How to Price Job Printing Properly , or Problems in Estimating . The students of Printing Practice who intend to become estimators should realize that they are to be printing engineers and when once in p...
by Bill Mullins
April 3rd, 2018, 12:47 pm
Forum: General
Topic: ERDNASE
Replies: 6896
Views: 2025512

Re: ERDNASE

I think here in the US many engineers get their education from trade schools. No. You've criticized me more than once for talking about subjects that you think I don't know anything about. Don't get yourself caught in the same trap. In America, an "engineer" means one of two things: 1. A ...
by Bill Mullins
April 2nd, 2018, 5:19 pm
Forum: General
Topic: ERDNASE
Replies: 6896
Views: 2025512

Re: ERDNASE

On top of this you have no evidence that he kept up his German. He graduated from the school of mines in 1885. The German magic books we are talking about were published 1895-1901, that is a decade or more later. What evidence do you have that Sanders kept up his German? The last evidence we have o...

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