Search found 125 matches

by Zenner
August 3rd, 2015, 6:58 am
Forum: General
Topic: ERDNASE
Replies: 7158
Views: 2130449

Re: ERDNASE

Now, I see you mean that Thompson actually used the Andrews identity in his business dealings with McKinney, and it wasn't just a source for his pseudonym. I'm glad you are making that clear. I have tried to make everything as clear as I can. It is you who are deliberately obfuscating the issue in ...
by Zenner
August 2nd, 2015, 7:55 am
Forum: General
Topic: ERDNASE
Replies: 7158
Views: 2130449

Re: ERDNASE

Earlier, Peter Zenner had said that E. C. Andrews had graduated from college in 1901, and worked for Ruxton Ink along Thompson. Ruxton shows up as a creditor on the very next page . Why would E. C. Andrews, presumably a fairly junior employee, being so young, be listed separately as a creditor from...
by Zenner
July 31st, 2015, 9:49 am
Forum: General
Topic: ERDNASE
Replies: 7158
Views: 2130449

Re: ERDNASE

Are you suggesting that Merton's third pass is the same as Erdnase's "Blind Shuffle for Securing Selected Card"? Because they aren't. Merton, after a single round of overhand shuffling, leaves the card on top. Erdnase uses a shuffle to a jog, then another shuffle, and leaves the card on t...
by Zenner
July 31st, 2015, 9:31 am
Forum: General
Topic: ERDNASE
Replies: 7158
Views: 2130449

Re: ERDNASE

Peter, I can’t speak to the timing of the public sale of Erdnase’s book, but if the LOC received two copies in March 1902 bound in the same manner as other 1st edition copies, then it’s likely that all copies (or at least a good portion of the print run) were bound at the same time. Generally speak...
by Zenner
July 30th, 2015, 6:40 am
Forum: General
Topic: ERDNASE
Replies: 7158
Views: 2130449

Re: ERDNASE

If "E. C. Andrews" only contract with McKinney was in August 1902, then we can rule him out as the author, since the book was printed and available for sale no later than March 8, 1902, when two deposit copies were received at the U.S. Copyright Office. Why the book could not have been me...
by Zenner
July 30th, 2015, 6:04 am
Forum: General
Topic: ERDNASE
Replies: 7158
Views: 2130449

Re: ERDNASE

Whether Houdini invented it or possibly showed it to Erdnase is another question, but I think we can be fairly sure that Erdnase did not invent it, since he did not claim to have done so. It would seem uncharacteristic of Houdini to have invented it without obsessing over it and attacking Erdnase f...
by Zenner
July 29th, 2015, 6:29 am
Forum: General
Topic: ERDNASE
Replies: 7158
Views: 2130449

Re: ERDNASE

“All truth passes through three stages: first, it is ridiculed; second, it is violently opposed; and third, it is accepted as self-evident.” [19th century German philosopher, Arthur Schopenhauer, 1788-1860] When I originally set out to investigate the authorship of The Expert , I assumed several th...
by Zenner
July 28th, 2015, 11:12 am
Forum: General
Topic: ERDNASE
Replies: 7158
Views: 2130449

Re: ERDNASE

Chris, that for making the bankruptcy files available. As you pointed out to me a few weeks ago, McKinney's 1903 bankruptcy in several places shows indebtedness to one "E. C. Andrews" or "E. B. Andrews" of Chicago, clearly the same person being indicated, though with some questi...
by Zenner
July 27th, 2015, 5:26 am
Forum: General
Topic: ERDNASE
Replies: 7158
Views: 2130449

Re: ERDNASE

Bill Mullins quoted from the Chicago Tribune in a much earlier posting on here - back in August, 2012. He said that Gallaway was 67 when he died in May, 1930. He wasn't; he was 61 when the Census was taken the month before. Note: I didn't say that Gallaway was 67. The obit said it, and I was only q...
by Zenner
July 26th, 2015, 6:50 am
Forum: General
Topic: ERDNASE
Replies: 7158
Views: 2130449

Re: ERDNASE

I just want whatever Gallaway was washing with! A professional lifetime handling type and fresh print in the ink-stained trenches, and not a mark on them. And no trace of scrubbing or solvents either. As M. D. Smith said--some of the softest hands he'd ever held. But Chris has dismissed everything ...
by Zenner
July 24th, 2015, 6:51 am
Forum: General
Topic: ERDNASE
Replies: 7158
Views: 2130449

Re: ERDNASE

Erdnase wrote - "Works on conjuring invariably devote much space to the condsideration of card tricks, and many have been written exclusively for that purpose, yet we have been unable to find in the whole category more than an incidental reference to any card table artifice; and in no instance ...
by Zenner
July 23rd, 2015, 7:19 am
Forum: General
Topic: ERDNASE
Replies: 7158
Views: 2130449

Re: ERDNASE

I think you're misreading the thread Brad. There are no personal attacks taking place, Zenner is defending his candidate and attempting to defend the attacks against himself with humour. and Zenner isn't effectively questioning anything , least of all the other candidates. Zenner HAS questioned ALL...
by Zenner
July 22nd, 2015, 6:50 am
Forum: General
Topic: ERDNASE
Replies: 7158
Views: 2130449

Re: ERDNASE

fwiw I think demarest's candidate has an amazing litany of coincidences, if that's the measure of a candidate. We know he knew one of the tricks in EATCT... I don't believe this is correct. His Yellowstone diary shows him playing with MUTUS NOMEN, a trick NOT in EATCT. Which is a bit puzzling, if h...
by Zenner
July 21st, 2015, 8:23 am
Forum: General
Topic: ERDNASE
Replies: 7158
Views: 2130449

Re: ERDNASE

1. His name reverses to S. W. Erdnase. 'Nuff said! It would have to. You were looking for someone, anyone, called E.S. Andrews! I approached the problem from a totally different angle and ended up with a man who worked with an E.C. Andrews, which, reversed, does sound the same. People have been kno...
by Zenner
July 20th, 2015, 11:26 am
Forum: General
Topic: ERDNASE
Replies: 7158
Views: 2130449

Re: ERDNASE

the printers ink thing is ridiculous. It was offered as one "coincidence" in a list of eleven. The idea that someone lived in a city that a trick may have come from is equally unconvincing. It was offered as one "coincidence" in a list of eleven. dying in the year of the copyrig...
by Zenner
July 19th, 2015, 8:03 am
Forum: General
Topic: ERDNASE
Replies: 7158
Views: 2130449

Re: ERDNASE

One approach to argue rationally would be to make a table of "convincers" and see which candidates have the most, or of all "convincers" which should be weighted more than others. Well Jonathan, I have been posting "convincers" (or "fascinating coincidences",...
by Zenner
July 18th, 2015, 6:33 am
Forum: General
Topic: ERDNASE
Replies: 7158
Views: 2130449

Re: ERDNASE

So Thompson, whom you say is on the road at the time as a commercial traveller, still had time to develop a relationship with a new hire at the Ruxton firm, just out of college, 20 years his junior, that is so strong that he wrote a book in his name? (a) I never said that Thompson developed a relat...
by Zenner
July 18th, 2015, 6:14 am
Forum: General
Topic: ERDNASE
Replies: 7158
Views: 2130449

Re: ERDNASE

Vernon was living in New York in 1929, not Ottawa, My posting was offered as a "fascinating coincidence", Richard. Vernon said he was a youth when he thought he might have met Erdnase, so I cast doubt myself. Mind you, there is nothing to say that Vernon never ever went back to Ottawa on ...
by Zenner
July 17th, 2015, 7:32 am
Forum: General
Topic: ERDNASE
Replies: 7158
Views: 2130449

Re: ERDNASE

I have been pondering Chris Wasshuber's announcement of the discovery of the James McKinney & Co. bankruptcy file. I believe this is one of the most significant things to be turned up regarding The Expert at the Card Table in a long time. I was aware that this announcement was imminent and have...
by Zenner
July 17th, 2015, 7:16 am
Forum: General
Topic: ERDNASE
Replies: 7158
Views: 2130449

Re: ERDNASE

I have another "fascinating coincidence" for Bill Mullins to ponder. Way back in 2003, David Alexander wrote the following on the Genii Forum, and I do remember Richard Hatch has also mentioned that the copyright ran out in 1930. The year 1930 rolls around, important because that is the ye...
by Zenner
July 15th, 2015, 8:35 pm
Forum: General
Topic: ERDNASE
Replies: 7158
Views: 2130449

Re: ERDNASE

Are you saying that Edwin Hood died ca. 1897? Because he is listed as living in Chicago in the 1910 Census. TMWWE suggests he died in 1921. Edwin Clark Hood died on April 11, 1897, according to my research. Have I got the wrong man? Peter Zenner I think so. The 1900 Chicago City Directory on ancest...
by Zenner
July 15th, 2015, 9:02 am
Forum: General
Topic: ERDNASE
Replies: 7158
Views: 2130449

Re: ERDNASE

He was a friend of Houdini and so was in a position to show him the move for transforming a card which Houdini then showed to Selbit. Are you now seriously contending that Thompson showed Houdini the "Transformation Two Hands First Method"? Based on what? For that matter, is there any evi...
by Zenner
July 15th, 2015, 8:04 am
Forum: General
Topic: ERDNASE
Replies: 7158
Views: 2130449

Re: ERDNASE

Bill Mullins wrote: Are you saying that Edwin Hood died ca. 1897? Because he is listed as living in Chicago in the 1910 Census. TMWWE suggests he died in 1921.


Edwin Clark Hood died on April 11, 1897, according to my research. Have I got the wrong man?

Peter Zenner
by Zenner
July 14th, 2015, 6:02 am
Forum: General
Topic: ERDNASE
Replies: 7158
Views: 2130449

Re: ERDNASE

The Demarest article in the September 2011 issue of Genii clearly provides evidence of Wilbur's anagrams of his name in his school notebook. We don't see the name S.W. Erdnase on the note page, but don't you think, Peter, that he would have eventually in time come up with the name S.W. Erdnase? It ...
by Zenner
July 14th, 2015, 5:35 am
Forum: General
Topic: ERDNASE
Replies: 7158
Views: 2130449

Re: ERDNASE

This is typical of how you are presenting your case, and why some of us find it lacking. You place great emphasis on things that don't really matter much (Erdnase makes passing reference to ink used in marking cards, therefore a guy who wholesales ink to printing houses MUST BE HIM). But when direc...
by Zenner
July 13th, 2015, 8:57 am
Forum: General
Topic: ERDNASE
Replies: 7158
Views: 2130449

Re: ERDNASE

Give me a second to don my stainless steel shield as I enter the battleground. No need for that, Matt. You have lived in England for long enough to realise that we Brits are capable of debating in a gentlemanly way. David Ben, in his new "The Experts at the Card Table" lists the authors a...
by Zenner
July 13th, 2015, 7:24 am
Forum: General
Topic: ERDNASE
Replies: 7158
Views: 2130449

Re: ERDNASE

A link between his Seely and the Dalrymple Seeleys has not been established. Nor has it been for Thompson. I am not depending on it, Bill. I haven't found a link between Harry and Louis Dalrymple, but I have found a link between Harry and another political cartoonist. It could be that Martin Gardne...
by Zenner
July 13th, 2015, 6:46 am
Forum: General
Topic: ERDNASE
Replies: 7158
Views: 2130449

Re: ERDNASE

Peter--does that mean you have dismissed the circumstantial evidence for W.E. Sanders pointed out by Alexander and Demarest? Yes. 1. The fact that W.E. Sanders played with anagrams of his name as a schoolboy in his notebook and W.E. Sanders is an anagram for S.W. Erdnase. I don't remember seeing an...
by Zenner
July 12th, 2015, 6:32 am
Forum: General
Topic: ERDNASE
Replies: 7158
Views: 2130449

Re: ERDNASE

Therefore, Edwin S. Andrews is probably not Erdnase. The many coincidences between his life and the history of the book are fascinating, though. Apart from his name being a reversal of S.W. Erdnase, what are these fascinating coincidences? There were others with the same name as his who have been d...
by Zenner
July 11th, 2015, 7:10 am
Forum: General
Topic: ERDNASE
Replies: 7158
Views: 2130449

Re: ERDNASE

While I disagree with Peter's conclusions, I welcome his interest in and contributions to the discussion. Thank you Bill. Your kindest words yet. I don't understand why you are so anti-Harry and pro-Edwin though. Perhaps Richard will answer my query soon about Edwin's knowledge of magic and the boo...
by Zenner
July 10th, 2015, 8:14 am
Forum: General
Topic: ERDNASE
Replies: 7158
Views: 2130449

Re: ERDNASE

Completely unrelated to the topic at hand, but Harry's nephew, Frank R. Thompson (son of Frank L. Thompson) was thought by Chicago police to have supplied the machine guns used in the St Valentine's Day massacre. Go back to your regularly scheduled Erdnasia. Dear Bill, You are very good at using Go...
by Zenner
July 10th, 2015, 6:04 am
Forum: General
Topic: ERDNASE
Replies: 7158
Views: 2130449

Re: ERDNASE

Absent the confirmation of Thompson's connection to McKinney, I can think of a half dozen Chicago area magicians who tick of as many boxes: August Roterberg, E. S. Burns, Ed Vernelo, H. J. Burlingame, William J. Hilliar... All were in Chicago at the time, all had self-publishing experience, all cou...
by Zenner
July 9th, 2015, 8:11 pm
Forum: General
Topic: ERDNASE
Replies: 7158
Views: 2130449

Re: ERDNASE

I've researched all of them to some degree and don't think any of them were Erdnase, but let's take just one to compare him with Thompson: Bill Hilliar had extensive experience writing and editing magic, was considered an expert with cards (on one occasion filling in for Thurston on short notice wi...
by Zenner
July 9th, 2015, 6:58 am
Forum: General
Topic: ERDNASE
Replies: 7158
Views: 2130449

Re: ERDNASE

It is clear from his book that the author knew quite a bit about card magic, including moves from very recently published books marketed to the magic fraternity. Harry S. Thompson had one of the four biggest magic libraries in America, according to Doc. Wilson. I think that the others were Houdini,...
by Zenner
July 8th, 2015, 7:32 am
Forum: General
Topic: ERDNASE
Replies: 7158
Views: 2130449

Re: ERDNASE

Without knowing more than what Peter has just shared with us today, Thompson is, to me, a surprising candidate, as would be anyone from the magic community of the time. Are you saying that "Erdnase" knew nothing about magic? There is absolutely no reason why he shouldn't be a member of th...
by Zenner
July 7th, 2015, 7:48 pm
Forum: General
Topic: ERDNASE
Replies: 7158
Views: 2130449

Re: ERDNASE

Peter, do we know what happened to his extensive library of magic? It likely had a first edition copy of Erdnase and it would be great to examine that copy to see if there were any inscriptions, annotations, or other interesting features. I asked his grand-daughter about his library. She has some b...
by Zenner
July 7th, 2015, 10:33 am
Forum: General
Topic: ERDNASE
Replies: 7158
Views: 2130449

Re: ERDNASE

Certainly an interesting candidate! If his brother was a printer, why work with McKinney? To keep the family in the dark about it? The same argument was made by Gardner about MFA's family not knowing he was the author. Why keep it secret from his brother magicians? Do we have other samples of his w...
by Zenner
July 7th, 2015, 10:17 am
Forum: General
Topic: ERDNASE
Replies: 7158
Views: 2130449

Re: ERDNASE

I guess I'll ask the obvious follow-up questions: Why Harry, and not one of the other candidates? Is there a smoking gun? Everything we know from the book and from Marshall D. Smith's description fits perfectly with Harry S. Thompson. This cannot be said of any of the other candidates. I haven't fo...
by Zenner
July 7th, 2015, 5:47 am
Forum: General
Topic: ERDNASE
Replies: 7158
Views: 2130449

Re: ERDNASE

ERDNASE FOUND Pull up a chair and grab a coffee. The man who used the nom-de-plume "S.W. Erdnase" was none other than Chicago magician, Harry Stuart Thompson. Harry was born on February 28, 1858, which means that he was 44 on February 28, 1902, just after the copyright application was made...
by Zenner
June 8th, 2015, 6:52 am
Forum: General
Topic: ERDNASE
Replies: 7158
Views: 2130449

Re: ERDNASE

I think that I have read everything that Richard Hatch has written about his candidate but I don't recall anybody commenting on the anomalies in that 1900 Census. Being criticised by Messrs Mullins and "M" will not affect my belief that something was fishy. I merely brought it to your atte...

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