Cups, cups, cups

Discuss the latest news and rumors in the magic world.

Postby Guest » 09/22/05 09:59 AM

Is it just my imagination or have there been a lot of cups from RnT II on eBay lately selling for way below retail? I see where someone is offering cups that have been used as demos at conventions this summer. What conventions were these?

How do you collector's feel about this? When you have paid so much for cups and they come up so cheap.
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Postby Bill Palmer » 09/22/05 10:03 AM

I must admit that when I paid $400 for a set of "Paul Fox Cups" that were not to original Paul Fox specs, I was disappointed. I was more disappointed when I saw the same cups on eBay, offered by the RnT II owner for a buy it now price of $150.

I was livid when I got an e-mail from one of their customers who had paid $150 for these cups. The so-called "tiny divets" (sic) that were allegedly in the rims of the cups were not visible under a magnifying glass.
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Postby Pete Biro » 09/22/05 11:43 AM

What is it with these people at RNT II ???
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Postby Pepka » 09/22/05 12:35 PM

I've heard from multiple sources that the guys in the "new" RNT are nothing but trouble. I REALLY don't get the deal with the Paul Fox cups that aren't Paul Fox cups. Shouldn't someone who has the right to use the Paul Fox name be spinning some good cups?
Hint Uncle Pete........... :D
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Postby Guest » 09/23/05 08:08 AM

I've talked to both sides of this issue...and have had input from several other magicians. RNT II is making my cups for me, as well as Jim Sisti's cups. Neither of us have had any problems with them at all. They make a good product, and I'm pleased so far.
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Postby Mad Jake » 09/23/05 05:49 PM

RNT II has kept quiet for most of the bashing it has recieved, but given postings here on the Genii forum, silence should be broken. To address the cups that were sold as demos, that is what they were. Quite frankly for the past 3 years due to, lets say mediocre planning for dealers at magic conventions revenues have been horrible, RNT II had no intentions of attending any magic sponsered conventions this year. However, what most are unaware of is that the owner of QS Engraving is the owner of RNT II. We do conventions that turn revenue, our booth is very unique and like a trade show we use magic to pitch our products and solicit new customers for the RNT II side. This proved most successful this year almost tripling our engraving sales and increasing our customer database with RNT II.

As too Mr Palmer being disappointed with the PF style cups, this is news to me as we have never recieved any type of email that stated this from Mr. Palmer. As a matter of fact he gave a favorable review on the Magic Cafe. Which is it Bill?

There are those who chose to pick up the phone or pull up the keyboard and express concerns to us about the shape, those people who act like professional performers or even human beings for that matter have an inside know of what is going on and what was and being done for them as well as everyone else. Those who didn't are in for a pleasant suprise in a few weeks.

Mr. Palmer, in addition to your post, you failed to mention that in the ad the cups that were sold were SECONDS, how convenient it is for everyone to omit information to suit their own posts to get their "version" of the post out there. The cups sold way below have serious divets in the mouth bead. For those of you who don't know what that is, the mouth bead is "KINKED" where it rolls against the cup. Thus the reduced price on about 7 sets of them.

Mr. Biro, as to your remark of RNT II being trouble, please read the PM sent to you on the Cafe to see where the REAL trouble lies.

Our clients have the faith in RNT II because we are honest and deal up front. We insist on contracts and we communicate openly not only with thier project at hand, but the way the company does business.

Mr. Brazill former owener of RNT II and James Riser have been harrassing our clients with phone calls and emails. Based on the content of the emails and phone calls our clients back us even stronger as they have found the actions to be harrassing and unprofessional. Overall this helped make our clients feel more secure in their choice of using RNT II for their production because they know that we deplore business tactics like this and would never sink so low.

RNT II Magic, Inc does not call up other clients of other manufactures such as Brazill and Riser, we don't need to, their customers will find out how they conduct their business by speaking with our clients eventualy. What comes around goes around and we are an honest hard working company whose only misfortune it seems has been the success we have had since the purchase.

To all our clients and customers who continue to stand with us and offer their support, RNT II Magic thanks you and appreciates all your efforts.
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Postby Jim Riser » 09/23/05 06:26 PM

Jacob wrote:
..."James Riser have been harrassing our clients with phone calls and emails"...

..................

What a joke!

Anyone who knows me knows that I virtually NEVER use the phone! I have disliked the phone all of my life! I also do not send out "harrassing emails". If someone asks me about something or a product, I state my opinion as is my RIGHT - guaranteed by the U.S. Constitution. I do not instigate any exchange of comments about anything. If someone asks, I might respond. I might even present them with a list of things to ask about. Such is only good business advice. The types of questions I suggest are the types of questions that anyone entering into a business venture with an unknown company should be asking. If my response is not to Jacob's liking, that is tough. He seems to think threatening me with an impossible lawsuit is appropriate response to my stating personal opinions. This behavior reminds me of Busby tactics. As I say, what a joke!

He may run his business however he wants to; but I certainly do not need to support it. :sleep:
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Postby Mad Jake » 09/23/05 07:08 PM

No Joke Jim, you like others only include partial quotes, I never said you personally used the phone, the quote should actually be

"Mr. Brazill former owener of RNT II and James Riser have been harrassing our clients with phone calls and emails."

Since you brought up the subject of email content your emails went far beyond the scope of what you said in your post. You commented on what you thought you had knowledge of internal operations of RNT II. If you're going to post about other companies or people, why not provide actual facts rather than your opinions, gossip or one sided stories.
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Postby Guest » 09/23/05 10:07 PM

I don't understand all of this. I have a few sets from RNT2 which I use. Granted the shape of the PF cups isn't exactly the same, but my understanding is that with the new run it will be correct. RNT2 was very honest with me when i contacted them about this matter. I am already planning my order.

Mr. Riser, while I don't know you, I have read several postings of yours. I don't think that you are fair in comparing RNT2 to Busby. Busby a dishonest, miserable person who was so wrapped up in his own "rights" that he forgot about what really mattered--the working magician. I have a set of your cups....and I have a couple sets of RNT2 cups. Both are superior quality.

You collectors collect, we performers perform--and we need good products to do just that. There is a lot of poorly made magic--and we need good quality affordable magic products. Bad form Mr. Riser, bad form Mr. Palmer. Nobody deserves to be compared to Busby....

Brandon
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Postby Guest » 09/24/05 08:20 AM

At their request, I shipped a quantity of my Cups and Balls Books to RNT II for them to sell. The agreed terms were net 30 days. That was three months ago. Despite reminders, payment has not been made.

For those of you that don't know, Mike Brazil is no longer connected with RNT II. I've known him for 30 years and trust him completely. My discussions with him about the new management of RNT II were most disturbing. I will not make accusations in public that I can't prove, but consider that Jim Riser, Mike Brazil, Bill Palmer and I have all had "difficulties" with this company. I can assure you that Jim, Mike and Bill are all honest and ethical people.

Dennis Loomis
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Postby Mad Jake » 09/24/05 09:37 AM

Dennis, first off I have no record of any reminders and if payment was not recieved you should have called, if you didn't recieve any replies, here's an idea pick up the phone or mail a reminder. Your post in regards to this shows you too are very unprofessional.

Of course the names you mentioned have problems with RNT II, they are the bandwagon clan that has ganged up on. As to your statement of honest and ethical, boy are you going to have egg on your face when everything comes out in the open.

As to the bill, send a duplicate copy of the invoice to info@rnt2.com and I'll check the invoice against the accountants books. For crying out loud man, take a course in business ethics with the money from the sale, you need it after making a post like this in public.
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Postby Richard Mendez » 09/24/05 09:37 AM

As a professional magician, I am crushed and ashamed to see the magic community behave like this. I have lost a great deal of respect for many professionals who let egos, gossiping and greed get the best of them. Particularly Jim Riser, a man I hold in such high esteem. Jim Riser is one of the most incredibly talented individuals in the world. Not just the magic community. Read the bios posted on his site. A multi-faceted, multi-dimensional master craftsman and genious in my eyes. I don't even pretend to understand the profound depths of this man. To see him behave this simply shatters the awe for me.
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Postby Bill Palmer » 09/24/05 03:40 PM

Jacob:

My review on the Magic Cafe plainly stated that these cups were not the same as Paul Fox cups. That was to inform the real collectors that you didn't quite have it together. Most of them picked up on it.

Regarding the "seconds," if the fellow I know who purchased the cups couldn't see the kinked rim, which, by the way, was not what you mentioned in your ad, I'm sure that it wasn't there. I learned of this after I placed my last order with you for an aluminum mini Don Alan chop cup, which I have not yet received.

I have actually stayed fairly much out of the fray, preferring to take a neutral stance on this.

The cup collectors are a fairly tight group. We pass information from one to another. Why did you offer other purchasers of these so-called Paul Fox cups properly made replacements, and not offer the same thing to me?
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Postby Mad Jake » 09/24/05 04:03 PM

Bill
contrair, the ad clearly stated there were Divets on rim of the cups were the bead did not roll correctly, also 1 or 2 sets had beads that did not meet up to the outter edge of the cup.

Again I have to refer to peoples reading habits, even yours Bill, I'm sorry. In the past post here I mentioned the few that did email were told another set was going to be sent, on the other hand the people that did not were in for a pleasant suprise. We are just going to mail them out to the people with no notice. So dont' feel left out Bill, just pick up on a complete post rather pick it apart. So now the suprise it out and had you just sent an email everyone would have been pleasantly suprised, but no, the bandwagon campaign against RNT II has to tredge on.

As to your Mini Don, again a forum is not the place to mention this simply because this is the first you have said anything. NEVER in all our shipments to you of the orders you have placed have you ever been stiffed or not taken care of. This just seems more like just another Jab at RNT II. Here's a really great idea, open outlook express and click new message and type in jake@rnt2.com and put a note in there stating Hey Jake the cup hasn't arrived. If an ebay or Tannens order doesn't show up do you immediately come to a forum, join a discussion and conveniently add "oh I haven't recieved my item?"
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Postby Bill Palmer » 09/24/05 07:00 PM

I don't use Outlook Express. I also don't take well to sarcasm.

If you want to air your dirty laundry here on Genii Forum, Jake, I can give more than you even know.

Maybe you should take care of your loose ends.

Again, why did you offer the "corrected Paul Fox" to other people, but not to me. If I get hold of the set of cups that I heard of that you sent out as factory seconds, and I can't find the mistakes on them with a magnifying glass, you can bet that I will let everyone know about it.
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Postby Mad Jake » 09/24/05 08:14 PM

Bill,
sorry you don't take well to sarcasm. You know nothing though as to dirty laundry or anything else other than what you have been spoon fed. I also don't take well to things and that in particular is the bashing RNT II has recieved in these forums. I did not choose to air any laundry here you and your merry bandwagon crew have chosen to bring things up that they no NOTHING about.

I would suggest Mr Brazill and all of you just move on with your lives and business plans and leave RNT II to do theirs. The real trouble makers are surely evident and our customers and clients have had the experience first hand speaking with Mike and have found that RNT II has not exagerated or fabricated anything.

On a closing note, after going over my post and making the suggestion it really wasn't sarcasm but a darn good suggestion.

Quite frankly in my humble opinion all of you are acting like a bunch of children who had their teddy bears taken away because you didn't know how to play with them.
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Postby Guest » 09/24/05 08:37 PM

Listen everyone...I think this is ridiculous. Where is the integrity? I am not one for spreading rumors or listening to gossip. I have NEVER found RNT2 to be unethical with me, and to the contrary have found them to be exceedingly professional in the manufacturing of my Squatty Cups. I am not in the business of personal attacks--it is a WASTE OF TIME. But I simply cannot believe the behavior of some of my collector friends. I have spoken with both parties of the RNT2 conflict--to be honest, I did not find Mike Brazill to be particularly impressing. In fact, he sounded bitter, angry, egotistical, and even somewhat threatening. He warned that I should "consider my reputation" before continuing with RNT2. My reputation comes from my cups--and people who know me understand that I will not tolerate imperfection--I'm a surgeon, I can't afford to. RNT2 and I have an agreement--if the cups are not to MY SPECIFICATIONS...they will not be sold. RNT2 has insisted that the quality be to my standards--and I have no reason to doubt them.

It seems to me that Mike is very angry about the situation with his former company--and who wouldn't be, after years of his work. But the transfer of ownership was a business decision, one that has lead to significant increased growth of the company. That's business...and sometimes it's unfair. That doesn't change the facts...RNT2 is innovative and is making very nice things.

My business dealings with RNT2 are strictly business--and they are aware if the product is inferior...or things are not to my liking...that they will not be making the cups for me again. Period. But like I said earlier, they have been extremely honest, approachable, and easy to work with. And, most importantly, I think that they will make beautiful cups for me.

My loyalty is to the magicians--those guys who want to perform the cups and balls...and want a the best quality set available. Likewise, I want to have good quality magic available to aspiring magicians. These guys don't care much about politics...they care about performing. They are the inspiration behind the Squatty Cups--and the reason for the 5th run.

To my friends who are collectors...give RNT2 the chance to proove what they can do. If Mike Brazill, Jim Riser, and others decide to start another magic company...great. I've always felt that competition makes for better business. But do so without the slander...sly remarks...and backstabbing. It's not only childish, but unprofessional.

Jonathan Schweid, M.D.
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Postby Pete Biro » 09/24/05 09:09 PM

My only kick with the RNT2 outfit is the way thay have TAKEN the PF Logo and the Paul Fox name. Never even contacting the estate and producing items with the Paul Fox name that had no bearing at all on anything Paul Fox had made.

It may have been legal (?) but it certainly wasn't ethical, especially when the family was working to re-introduce the Paul Fox line.
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Postby Guest » 09/25/05 08:43 AM

Pete-- I'm new to all of this posting,etc. Have you tried any "diplomatic" solutions with RNT2-- i.e., working with them to make the Paul Fox cups? From what I know you have the permission of the Paul Fox family....RNT2 has the logo, which I heard was obtained while Mike Brazill was running the company. But it seems that instead of fighting with them...since they legally own the logo (at least from what I can tell)...why not make it a joint venture...then both sides would benefit. At least that seems reasonable to me.
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Postby Guest » 09/25/05 08:45 AM

To Jacob,
I have just located an email I sent to Marcella requesting payment. I believe that there were other reminders as well. But, I can prove this one.

Point is, you received the merchandise and an invoice initially. Your company has not paid for the merchandise you ordered. At least one reminder was sent.

At this point, I'm asking that you simply send back the books. I would prefer not to have them associated with your organization.

I would NEVER have gone public with this if you had not treated my old friend Mike Brazil in the way that you did. And, I couldn't have done it if you had simply paid for what you ordered.

Bill Palmer and Jim Riser are ethical and honest gentlemen. And most everyone in magic knows it.

Dennis Loomis
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Postby Guest » 09/25/05 09:01 AM

I have just forwarded a copy of the email I sent to RNT II requesting the unpaid balance to Richard Kaufman. It was dated July 27. I gave them the alternative of returning the books.

The original shipment of 36 books was made on June 10 by Priority Mail

To date, neither payment nor books have been received.

Dennis Loomis
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Postby Richard Kaufman » 09/25/05 09:33 AM

Well, Jacob, you really sound like a first-class jerk. The word is that Mike Brazil had RNT II taken away from him by his partners, who suddenly claimed they owned the rights to lots of designs that Mike didn't think he sold them. So, Mike has lots of friends and you don't seem to have many.
Many people feel there are lots of unanswered ethical and legal questions regarding RNT II and your attitude isn't going to win anyone over to your side.
The fact is that you have no rights regarding the use of Paul Fox's name. That right is owned SOLELY by his estate, and the estate has granted the sole use to Pete Biro and Joe Porper.
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Postby Mad Jake » 09/25/05 09:49 AM

Richard,
first off you know nothing of the agreement of sale. Mr. Brazill seems to have tried to pull this stunt before with the original RNT when he and I had discussions. As to the right of the Paul Fox name our add states Paul Fox Style cups, the operative word being "style". We have already discussed this and will be discontinuing any use of the name all together in any type of combination as a noun or adjective.

As to Mr. Brazill, again you have heard his side the same story told to everyone. However other investors that believed in RNT II when the Brazills had the company know exactly what is going on. Mr. Brazill's actions and story telling will eventually catch up with him. I don't need to air anything out here.

Bottom line, those who want the product will buy, those who want the politics and to be part of the bandwagon clan will stay away from us.

As to Mr. Loomis' posts, very unprofessional. Our accountant shows that the order was paid for in August. A new check was already dispateched for the purchase. RNT II pays their bills and to take a cheap shot like that in public just goes to the business character of the poster.

I've defended the company and I think I have answered questions fairly and honestly, our clients feel comfortable with us and have seen the company grow tremendously after the purchase of the near bankrupt RNT II. We will continue on with our business. I recommend everyone just do the same. I will not be replying to anymore posts as it is not serving any purpose but to give the "bandwangoneers" more to fabricate from a one-sided hearsay story woven by Mr. Brazill.

Everyone, get on with your buisiness. Those who have stood by us, RNT II thanks you. Those who oppose us, thank you as well, you have given alot of insight of one sided politics involved in this business and have given us a lot of research material to analyze.

The best to everyone and God Bless.
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Postby Bill Palmer » 09/25/05 12:07 PM

Originally posted by MagicFan440:
Pete-- I'm new to all of this posting,etc. Have you tried any "diplomatic" solutions with RNT2-- i.e., working with them to make the Paul Fox cups? From what I know you have the permission of the Paul Fox family....RNT2 has the logo, which I heard was obtained while Mike Brazill was running the company. But it seems that instead of fighting with them...since they legally own the logo (at least from what I can tell)...why not make it a joint venture...then both sides would benefit. At least that seems reasonable to me.
Regards,
Brandon
If you check out the papers that were filed, this went in before Mike was associated with Marcella and Jake. According to various posts and e-mails from Jake and Marcella, Mike Brazill never actually RAN RnT2 after they took it over.

Regarding my apparent lack of ability to read Jake's ads for the "factory second" Paul Fox style cups, I believe that I can explain this satisfactorily.

Jake said the cups had "divets" (sic) in the rims. I looked up the word "divet" in both Webster's Second and Webster's Third. For those of you from Viriginia, these are unabridged dictionaries, and are considered by people who actually write as the authority on American English. There is no such word as "divet" in American English. So I looked it up in the OED -- that's the Oxford English Dictionary, and sure enough, it was in there as a variant of "divot."

I've played enough golf to know what a divot is. So I interpreted the word to mean that there were nicks or dings in the rims.

I believe my confusion is understandable. And I congratulate Mr. Zimmerman on his knowledge of English variant spellings, which I had formerly attributed to a mistaken inabilty to actually be able to spell a simple five-letter word.

Even if it wasn't the word he meant.
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Postby Robert Allen » 09/25/05 12:46 PM

How about posting some digital photos of the "seconds" cups, from a few angles? I've seen a few cups from various manufacturers in the past with various problems and am always curious to see how my quality expectations line up with others.

In the past I've looked at what others considered acceptable or good enough and found them lacking in some way. In other cases, I've been told 'so and so's product has problems' and been unable to see any such problems myself.

Finally I wil just note that the issue of perceived de-valuation of first-line products is one reason why many manufacturers of expensive or handmade products (not just magic products) do not sell seconds. It cuts into their primary market and can peeve customers who bought the firstline product and who would have been just as happy with a second-line product.
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Postby Guest » 09/25/05 01:43 PM

Mr. Kaufman...you sound like the jerk to me. I've actually met Mike Brazil before...tried working with him, and to be honest...he's a jerk. Granted, he has been in the business for awhile...but I never found him to be very nice.

But the truth is, most of you on this forum are acting like first rate bums. I'm proud of my RNT2 cups-- and I use them to perform all the time--for a living. I'm just ashamed to see so many people bashing a perfectly good company. So what if you don't like their business tactics...and so what if you are "sympathizers" of with Mike Brazil. I heard that he made bad business decisions--so in truth, this is HIS OWN FAULT!!!! And, I've met him...he was not nice to me at all--and this was several years ago--before RNT2.

I guess I'm just not a fan of Mr. Brazil...and I don't necessarily believe the stories he's telling.
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Postby Pete Biro » 09/25/05 02:34 PM

May I suggest dumping this thread? RNT2 and Biro/Porper with the Fox Estate are working to a solution of the Paul Fox confusion and IMHO will sort things out to the satisfaction of all parties.

If not... :whack:
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Postby Pepka » 09/25/05 03:31 PM

Sounds like a good idea Pete. (Although I LOVE juicey stuff like this.) And a word to MagicFan. Richard isn't a jerk. But if he were, this is his house and he has every right. Also has the right to kick your butt off of here.
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Postby Guest » 09/25/05 03:38 PM

Jacob,
I did not receive payment in August, or at any other time. If your accountant has proof, then produce it. I sent a copy of my email requesting payment to Richard Kaufman.

If you paid me and I totally forgot, you would deserve a big apology, and you'll get it. But, if you did send out a payment and it somehow went astray, why didn't you let me know that when I requested Payment again later. My records do not indicate a payment, and that matches my memory. But, hey, I'm human. If I'm wrong, you should have a cancelled check or some electronic proof. Please send it to Richard Kaufman.

You said that a "new" check has been dispatched. If you claim to have paid it, (meaning a first check cleared) why would you pay me again? At this point, I do not want your money. If a check arrives now, I'll send it back and you can send the books back... Okay?

I will admit that I do not know you well. But I do know Mike Brazill and have for many years. I believe his version because I trust him AND because Bill Palmer backs him up.

I AM confused about the rights to use the Paul Fox name. Pete Biro is another guy I believe, and let me ask you publicly, Pete: Didn't Paul Fox sell the rights to his products to Danny Dew? I know that Danny Dew and Jeff Busby made some kind of a deal, and that many people say that Busby never completed paying Danny. But, why would the Paul Fox Family have the rights today? I'm not saying they don't, mind you, I'm asking.

Denny Loomis
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Postby Bill Wells » 09/25/05 03:46 PM

...from Bill Palmer's message...

"For those of you from Viriginia, these are unabridged dictionaries, and are considered by people who actually write as the authority on American English."
Watch it Mr. William....there are some from the Old Dominion who can read!! ...and don't you forget that Sam Houston was a Virginian !!!

Bill ;)
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Postby Bill Palmer » 09/25/05 04:26 PM

Bill:

You are right, of course. I should know about that. I married one of his great-great-great-grand nieces!

And she can read very well.
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Postby Guest » 09/25/05 05:30 PM

In a private email to me, Jake has admitted that they have no cancelled check. I am skeptical that one was sent, but things do go astray in the mail. He also states that all of the books save 3 or 4 have been sold. I have no reason to disbelieve that.

Therefore, I will accept and cash the new check if/when it arrives. And, I'll post it on this thread.

Denny Loomis
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Postby Guest » 09/25/05 06:12 PM

Pepka...I'm jut not a fan of accusations. Mr. Kaufman has no right to call anyone else a jerk--it is unprofessional, and makes him sound foolish--I don't care whose house it is. But I'm sorry if it offended anyone

My only point is that I've had the pleasure of meeting Mike Brazill, and he's not nearly as friendly as all of you make out. In fact, he was downright nasty and egotistical. Frankly it was at that time I lost tremendous respect for him. It was just happenstance that he and I came into contact (as it was me finding this particular forum).

I'm also not justifying anything for RNT2. I simply want professionalism...not allegations. Nobody has brought forth any documentation or proof on any wrongdoing. People in this forum just like to gossip--and it at the expense of others.

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Postby Pete Biro » 09/25/05 09:48 PM

Dennis: According to Paul Fox's daughter, no one, not even Danny Dew was granted rights to Paul Fox name and/or Logo. Danny used it as he had "permission" to make the stuff and market it FOR Paul.

Busby came along, befriended Danny, and when in poor health and needing funds, Danny was made an offer to buy the jigs and remaining stock by Busby. Busby took all the gear and made a down payment. (I don't know the deal and amount, but...)... According to Danny Dew's lawyer, Busby never paid what was agreed upon. The lawyer offered to go after Busby, pro bono, but Danny didn't want to go through the trouble as his health was failing and he didn't want the stress. After he died, his widow, Melba, just about has a heart attack anytime anyone "mentions the name Busby."

Busby filed and obtained a copyright on the PF logo without the knowledge of the Estate.

Paul's daughter and grandchildren are eager to bring the Paul Fox name, and reputation, back up to the top... and have entered into a licencing agreement with myself and Joe Porper to manufacture and market various Paul Fox items. The criteria is their approval of the qaulity, which we will have no trouble meeting.

Now, when someone else has come along and started to use the Paul Fox name and logo... this HARMS our situation, causing confusion with the general customer base. They won't know who's right or wrong, really, and if a poor product is made with the Fox name we all lose.

The Paul Fox estate is not happy about this at all.

We have had messages from the RNT-2 principals that they are going to drop the use of the Paul Fox name and have asked their webmaster to take it out of any items on their site.

Let's hope this can happen to the satisfaction of the Fox family.
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Postby Guest » 09/25/05 11:15 PM

Pete--does this mean that your major "issues" with RNT2 are now resolved?
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Postby Pete Biro » 09/26/05 09:08 AM

I believe so... the ball is in their court and we await to see how it plays out.
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Postby Pete Biro » 09/26/05 09:09 AM

BTW -- what they do has no bearing on what we do. We have plans and will stick to them. My only real problem is with the confusion factor.
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Postby Guest » 09/26/05 09:39 AM

Pete,
Thanks for clarifying the situation. I wish you and Joe nothing but the best in your endeavor. My first good set of cups were Paul Fox from Danny, and I am glad to know that the tradition will be carried on. We are fortunate that so many good sets of cups are being made today, with craftsmen like Jim Riser, Auke van Dokkum, and Joe Porper to mention some, creating quality products for performers and collectors.

Denny Loomis
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Postby Guest » 09/26/05 11:43 AM

If relationships are to be repaired, it would be good if RnT2 would consider starting by modifying their 'hit' counter at the bottom of their homepage.

That counter might be hidden away at the bottom of the page in a small font, but customers (like me) will read it. That sort of personal remark really isn't justified on a business web page and looks very unprofessional. I don't imagine you'd see such a sign in a shop front or on a business card.

It would be a good place to start burying that hatchet.

Z
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Postby George Olson » 09/26/05 03:12 PM

Haven't we about beaten this topic to an early grave?

Perhaps time to move on.

GO
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