Why don't some post?

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Why don't some post?

Postby Guest » June 18th, 2007, 5:52 pm

I am curious why, (as there are reputed to be 10,000+ prowlers) only a relatively few Genii-Forum-types have the nads to ever post anything. --And what are you waiting to chat about?

I see a lot of "names" and "pseudonyms"...why are so many apparently afraid of joining-in and contributing orignal content?

Just wondering.

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Richard Kaufman
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Re: Why don't some post?

Postby Richard Kaufman » June 18th, 2007, 5:58 pm

Lots of people ... just like to watch.
Subscribe today to Genii Magazine

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Re: Why don't some post?

Postby Guest » June 18th, 2007, 6:12 pm

It has nothing to do with "having nads".

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Re: Why don't some post?

Postby Guest » June 18th, 2007, 6:19 pm

I agree with Chris' observation. Also, if original content were a criterion, I suspect this forum would look very different ...

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Re: Why don't some post?

Postby Guest » June 18th, 2007, 6:20 pm

Then what, pray tell, DOES it have to do with?

--I REALLY DO want to know the deal!

Honestly. :)

Why not pitch in one's 2 cents?

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Re: Why don't some post?

Postby Jim Maloney_dup1 » June 18th, 2007, 6:23 pm

Isn't this a bit self-defeating? You're asking the guys who don't post to post about why they don't post. ;)

-Jim

Guest

Re: Why don't some post?

Postby Guest » June 18th, 2007, 6:43 pm

[You got Moxie, Maloney!]

But, Chris and Clay, both of you extremely-esteemed dudes have over 1,050 posts each. How can I be expected to take YOUR explanations as un-biased?! (ho ho)

I guess I am being selfish: It's that I KNOW there are a LOT of folks out there that are WAY smarter and more experienced than am I, with many a tale to tell!
--So, let's have it!--There really are people out here that want to hear!!
--That's all I'm sayin'.

--Dave Cox :^D

P.S. What should I have called people shooting the breeze in their own words, if not "original content" (i.e., original thoughts presented on the web site...)?

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Re: Why don't some post?

Postby Guest » June 18th, 2007, 6:57 pm

Dave,

I know a thing or two about it since I have my fair share of lurkers over at my own forums.

If someone feels they have nothing to add or don't feel comfortable doing so at a given time, I don't feel comfortable insinuating that "lurkers" "don't have the nads" to post. I've had people lurk for a few years before posting, and have had some that have never posted and might never post.

It's the way online forums work and I've never been overly concerned by it.

If you (Dave) see people you'd like to converse with and they don't post on the forums, why not try to engage them in other ways? (e-mail, chat, in person, etc.)

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Re: Why don't some post?

Postby Jim Maloney_dup1 » June 18th, 2007, 6:57 pm

"P.S. What should I have called people shooting the breeze in their own words, if not "original content" (i.e., original thoughts presented on the web site...)? "

I tend to refer to my own posts as "mindless drivel". ;)

There's that Moxie again...don't tell Penn she got out!

-Jim

Guest

Re: Why don't some post?

Postby Guest » June 18th, 2007, 6:58 pm

---Or were you intimating that people would if they could...?

NOW I'm with you, on the trolley.
(Just give me a moment, and I do sometimes catch-up...) :help:

Guest

Re: Why don't some post?

Postby Guest » June 18th, 2007, 7:04 pm

Do you want folks to post notice that they are too busy laughing or ... ??

Besides, remember that adage about it being better to remain silent and be thought a fool than... :D

Some folks can and do learn by reading.

Guest

Re: Why don't some post?

Postby Guest » June 18th, 2007, 7:08 pm

Right you are, Chris.

Your post helped me stop and realize that my b.s. (that really IS only intended to humorously chide folks into sending something back) can come across as much more obnoxious than planned and stifle the hoped for peacock-plume of varied responses.

--D.C.

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Re: Why don't some post?

Postby James Kernen » June 18th, 2007, 7:10 pm

Some people are more comfortable having one on one conversations (or at least in smaller groups).... People connect with others differently.......It doesn't mean they are not interested in the topics being presented/discussed, it is just that a more personal exchange is probably more the norm for those people and is more comfortable...

On a forum, you can take one of these individuals who might have a desire to provide their two cents, but they are looking for a return....not just the fame they get from making a said post....but perhaps an acknowledgement of understanding of each others position/perspective....... I dislike when I make or see others make a post and it is attacked. Debate is one thing, but when I see someone assail a poster because they think the post is stupid (or more worthy of another forum), then I wonder why the attacker felt they needed to respond (unless they are a designated moderator, doing their job). If it was an unworthy question or observation in another poster's eyes, then why not just ignore it, or if truly interested in an exchange, ask more questions to understand why.

I post when I can offer items (that someone has not already responeded to) or need assistance of some sort..........

This post is out of place for me since I try to avoid the crosshairs of attack posters.....not because I care or have a fragile ego, but I just don't get enjoyment about banter for banter's sake.....

As an observer, I really enjoy these forums since I am not plugged into the magic mainstream, but I have a love of the art and love to study it.... I have made some great contacts through here and from other forums, and I am greatful that these forums exist for people like me....but if I am going to have a conversation about a topic, I need more than a forum... I need the immediate real time exchange with the person or people I want to converse with .....

James

Guest

Re: Why don't some post?

Postby Guest » June 18th, 2007, 7:13 pm

In all honesty, Senor Townsend, I want people to post ANYTHING, whether they're laughing at me or not is irrelevant!
Trust me brother I can take all the cyber-scorn-at-my expense you can dish out, and then some!! I just want to get some action going! :whack: :D

Guest

Re: Why don't some post?

Postby Guest » June 18th, 2007, 7:16 pm

well done Mr. Kernen! Thank you.

Guest

Re: Why don't some post?

Postby Guest » June 18th, 2007, 7:29 pm

[drafted as the conversation has progressed, so sorry if any thoughts are redundant.]

Dave, Genii Forum is probably a slightly skewed microcosm of any social group (the skewing accounts for the fact that this is, after all, a rather impersonal medium). Some folks are gregarious, some are not, etc.

I know some folks who enjoy stellar reputations in our little world who have decided not to participate in online forums, in large part because they dont think such participation would be a productive use of their time. Several years ago, I decided to join and participate in GF and The Magic Caf as an experiment to see what would come of it (fortunately, I didnt let the fact that RK promptly booted me off this board deter me :) ). Overall, Im glad I did, because Ive benefited from many of the exchanges, especially on this forum. Some of the folks here have been very kind to me with their knowledge and advice. So, no regrets.

Yet, if I were honest about it, Id have to admit that the vast majority of my posts here have not been really productive, if judged by whether or not theyve truly advanced the dialog on magic history and bibliography.

Ive come to the conclusion that this forum is mostly an extended social club. Theres nothing wrong with that, of course. Aside from expanding social contacts, there are benefits to an online social club: sometimes a really good discussion gets going which either nicely documents for posterity the way people think and the status of magic as an art (e.g., the kinds of issues we magi find relevant today), or, as in the case of the wonderful Erdnase thread, demonstrates that something really magical can happen when knowledgeable and thoughtful folks choose to work together and share what they know and engage in civilized debate which helps to vet ideas.

My two cents

Clay

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Re: Why don't some post?

Postby Rick Ruhl » June 18th, 2007, 7:43 pm

I started working online with Compuserve (then known as Micronet in 1979), from there to GEnie and then to MSN until 1999.

As a forum manager, online manager and product manager I can tell you less that 1% of the users of any bulletin board post. This because most people feel comfortable 'lurking'.

Trying to force people to post is the wrong way to go at it. A person will post when they have something to say.

There are posters who have alot say but dont say alot.

There are posters who will try to force their way on you. They are always right, even when they are wrong.

Oh, I do miss the days of making $100,000 a year being a 'sysop' on the major services. That was a lifetime ago though, when it cost $6.00 an hour to be online and we only got 10% of the revenue for those in our forums.

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Re: Why don't some post?

Postby Guest » June 18th, 2007, 8:03 pm

"Force" is such a strong word..."encourage", "spur", "coerce", I don't want to discourage, I want to EN-courage!! Come on dudes, let 'er rip!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z06mQT_vkkw

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Re: Why don't some post?

Postby Guest » June 18th, 2007, 8:55 pm


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Pete Biro
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Re: Why don't some post?

Postby Pete Biro » June 18th, 2007, 10:10 pm

Unlike some of us... I think most have a life! :p
Stay tooned.

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Re: Why don't some post?

Postby Guest » June 18th, 2007, 10:55 pm

Why, Mr. Biro: For shame!

Come on man, you're one of the maestros--whatever you post is eagerly awaited, and your comments--however fleeting are like manna: awaited and appreciated by ALL.

THAT'S not what I'm talking about.

How do we old-codgers (though it's understood that you--Pete Biro--are WAY older than am I) stimulate a higher level of interaction?
That's all I ask.
I have tried to play ball, and offer value (most of the time)--so what's the deal? Does anybody give a good-godamn or not?

NOW: whether I have a life or not is, as you suggest, debatable to say the least. (It's 2:1 that I DON'T...) So why-not toss a total-loser a bone, and post something interesting?

Come on--what'll it hurt? :)

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Dustin Stinett
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Re: Why don't some post?

Postby Dustin Stinett » June 18th, 2007, 11:27 pm

Dave, I believe there are more people who have voyeuristic tendencies than there are those who are exhibitionists.

During his interview on Inside the Actors Studio, Dustin Hoffman said that when he asked Sir Laurence Olivier why he chose acting, the answer was, Look at me, look at me, look at me, look at me.

Thats all this is; another way to say, Look at me, look at me, look at me, look at me.

Dustin

Guest

Re: Why don't some post?

Postby Guest » June 19th, 2007, 6:25 am

re: "In all honesty, Senor Townsend, I want people to post ANYTHING, whether they're laughing at me or not is irrelevant! "

It's not all about you.

Most folks know better than to bring personal issues into technical discussions outside their field of expertise unless attempting levity and/or willing to risk censure.

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Re: Why don't some post?

Postby David Acer » June 19th, 2007, 9:04 am

In addition to all the other pertinent comments above, if the buzz I occasionally hear is to be believed, the Genii forum is gaining a reputation for being vitriolic. Whether or not this is true is as much a factor of perception as anything, so there's no point in arguing about it, but if that's the tone people perceive as being set in a significant (if not substantial) number of threads, then I would argue that almost everyone would prefer to witness a car wreck rather than be a part of one. By extension, the quieter members may be equally concerned about starting a thread with the best of intentions and getting railroaded into a car-wreck (mixed metaphor alert!). This has nothing to do with "nads" - I see it more as a factor of wisdom.
Now tweeting daily from @David_Acer

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Re: Why don't some post?

Postby Guest » June 19th, 2007, 9:31 am

I rarely post. I come to the forum for information about what's going on in the world of Magic. If I come across something that my posting would help clarify or enlighten then I would post. I also work full time (not in magic) and want to spend time with my family so I don't have a lot of time to spend when I am checking out the forum. I suspect that when I retire in a few years I may have more time to get involved in the forum. But for now it gives me a way to keep in touch with what's going on. A kind of magic news program.

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Re: Why don't some post?

Postby Guest » June 19th, 2007, 9:56 am

Some guy on the Magic Cafe has 16,000+ posts.

Sixteen thousand! :help:

I appreciate users who only post when they feel they have something of value to contribute.

As for me, I will stop posting once I reach 189 posts ;)

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Re: Why don't some post?

Postby Jim Morton » June 19th, 2007, 10:18 am

As someone who often visits this website, but rarely posts, I can answer castawaydave's original question. The reason is simple: the people visiting this site are more informed, more articulate, and definitely more experienced than on any of the other forums that I visit. Usually by the time I come across a thread, there are already posts by Max Maven, Michael Close, David Regal, David Acer, Jamy Ian Swiss, and (of course) Richard Kaufman. Now what in the world could I add to that conversation? I mean really? Frankly, most of the time, when I read a post from some nitwit challenging the wisdom of these people, I don't think, "Boy, what nads!" I think, "What a cretin."

Now, that is not to say that disagreeing with any of these folks is stupid, per se. I have been known to disagree with them from time to time myself, but when I go to other sites (I'll leave them nameless for now) where I see posts from fifteen-year-old know-it-alls who post "You don't know what you are talking about." To these and other well-known magicians, it makes me blush. On one site, Todd Robbins was chided by some fool who implied that he didn't know what he was talking about when it came to the dangers of geek magic!

At least here, we've got Richard to ride herd on these ignorant little SOBs. Now I'll shut up and keep reading.

Jim

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Re: Why don't some post?

Postby Guest » June 19th, 2007, 10:24 am

It's called the 90-9-1 rule. 90% never post, 9% post occasionally and the majority of posts is done by 1%. It is human nature and is seen everywhere on and offline.

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Re: Why don't some post?

Postby Ian Kendall » June 19th, 2007, 10:27 am

I seem to remember that 16000 post bloke put that as his location, so it shows up each time he appears. The real post count is below that.

And yes, this particular example does show why many posts are utterly redundant...

Take care, Ian

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Re: Why don't some post?

Postby Guest » June 19th, 2007, 12:16 pm

At least here, we've got Richard to ride herd on these ignorant little SOBs.
Is it fair to say that the average age of the members here is higher than on many of the other public forums?

Guest

Re: Why don't some post?

Postby Guest » June 19th, 2007, 12:36 pm

It seems the Pareto principle is being given some interest these days.

Here is a link to a recent discussion of online participation.

Guest

Re: Why don't some post?

Postby Guest » June 19th, 2007, 12:39 pm

" but when I go to other sites (I'll leave them nameless for now) where I see posts from fifteen-year-old know-it-alls who post "You don't know what you are talking about." To these and other well-known magicians, it makes me blush. On one site, Todd Robbins was chided by some fool who implied that he didn't know what he was talking about when it came to the dangers of geek magic!"

- May I say "Amen". or "Aum" if you prefer. I will openly admit that I am not a professional, I am working hard, studying hard and taking all the good advice I can find. I found this site about a week ago and I've managed to find some true gems here. I too was on another site - which shall remain nameless- and the vast majority of posts are from teens and pre-teens. I personally am grateful to find a place where those with real experience and knowledge speak so openly about their art. 'Shadow Priest' obviously isn't my real name - thank the gods- it is Scott Mendenhall. I don't suppose that I will post alot of messages for a while. If you see me lurking,
I assure you that I am learning and when there is something to say that is worthwhile, then I will post. The point of this post is simply to say "Thank You" to the magicians here who are brave enough to be so open and honest. So- "Thank You."

Guest

Re: Why don't some post?

Postby Guest » June 19th, 2007, 3:35 pm

I want to thank the gentlemen that have taken time to help with my continuing education.

I would like to echo Shadow Priest's comment above: I should be more thankful for the all good we DO have here, rather than being impatient for folks to participate who don't really want to...

--and Mr. Townsend, that was a very interesting link--thanks, Dave Cox

Guest

Re: Why don't some post?

Postby Guest » June 19th, 2007, 11:34 pm

I fall under Mr. Wasshuber's 9% rule. I only post occasionally.
.......

CW-Dave,

As someone who has very few posts, I would represent the aggregate you are referring to in your question.

I watch very little television and spend about 2-3 hours online everyday partly reading 3 newspapers and getting my magic fix by perusing 4-5 different magic forums with rare contributions.

I'm not daft enough to insult another man in his own house, but frankly, this forum wouldn't be able to accommodate my needs for what I want to say or contribute, nor would you -want- to hear what I want to say or contribute.

Magic forums are like the leisure section in the newspaper: Reviews for the latest products, Current trends, and censured opinion. While it's not intellectually honest, it is necessary if you don't wish to be clueless about the (magic) world around you.

-A

Guest

Re: Why don't some post?

Postby Guest » June 20th, 2007, 12:20 am

On the contrary, Mr. Hastings: You are the very chap from whom I am curious to hear!

That's what I hope the "timid" get from this: your input is valuable and desirable!

Let 'er rip, fraters!

What do you want to know/chat about?

Man, this Forum is an opportunity unlike any that mankind has ever seen to this point in time. I LOVE brainstorming and hearing what folks come-up with...that's all I have ever wanted: to hear disparate voices.

You dudes who feel that since Messers Kaufman, Regal, Racherbaumer, Maven, (as examples) have posted, there's no point in contributing: I say that's crap.

Guest

Re: Why don't some post?

Postby Guest » June 20th, 2007, 6:55 am

I truly enjoy reading everything on this forum, and try to do it at least a few times each week.

I am , however, a bit gun-shy at posting, since I do not have the many years of performing experience that alot of the members have (I have performed professional music with major name performers for over 25 years, magic for about 4 years).

Also, I have been shot down a few times by some members whose very strong convictions do not allow for opinions from "lurkers" like me.

It has made me think three times, rather than twice, when I get the notion to make a post. Generally, I hold back rather than jump in. Folks tend to tread lightly once they have been trod on.

Regardless, I usually enjoy reading the posts here, and treat the time as research.

Hope that is OK....

Mark Pettey
student of music, magic, and life
Naples, FL

Guest

Re: Why don't some post?

Postby Guest » June 20th, 2007, 7:31 am

I don't post very often for several reasons.

I try not to get into arguments. I've learned over the years that they rarely accomplish anything. If I see something and think "What a load of crap!" I do my best not to jump into the fray. As I have become more successful at doing this, the number of posts that I make has gone down.

When someone misinterprets me, I no longer spend five or ten posts trying to straighten them out. I don't remember the last time I succeeded at correcting someone's misinterpretation of something that I said, especially if they are being hostile to me, so I try not to fight losing battles.

I try not to answer a question that's already been answered unless I have something worth adding.

My interests cover a fairly tiny percentage of the world of magic. Most of the time, most of the things that are being talked about don't interest me.

Of the things that interest me, I only have so much to say about some of them. Once I've said the same thing about the same subject a couple of times, when the subject comes up again, sometimes I'll just lurk.

Some subjects that interest me will inevitably get covered fairly well without my input, so sometimes I'm just plain lazy. For example, when the question "What pass is the best?" is asked, I firmly believe that the correct answer is "Whichever one works best for you," but I'm quite confident that someone else will say it if I don't.

Andru

Guest

Re: Why don't some post?

Postby Guest » June 20th, 2007, 7:36 am

I'll tel you exaclty what it is. I believe it is people, like myself, who are relativly new. I look at a lot of the topics on sleights, books, and magicians and have no knowledge in them. Because I don't have anything to say I don't say anything. But, when I see an opportunity to contribute I try my best to do so.

Guest

Re: Why don't some post?

Postby Guest » June 20th, 2007, 9:54 pm

I sometimes wonder that posting a good post (news, advice, unique information etc) on a web board is like contributing a good trick to a magic magazine (as opposed to a book): The only ones who see it are the (relativly few) subscribers...and then it's lost to time. After all, not many of us (I bet) go back through the forum archives or re-read the old magazines. Whereas, a book hovers around forever.

Just a thought...

Paul Gordon

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Re: Why don't some post?

Postby David Acer » June 20th, 2007, 10:05 pm

Quote from Paul Gordon: I sometimes wonder that posting a good post (news, advice, unique information etc) on a web board is like contributing a good trick to a magic magazine (as opposed to a book): The only ones who see it are the (relativly few) subscribers...

Genii has a circulation of 6500+, which is considerably more than most magic books. But I understand your suggestion that magazines, like internet posts, have a more disposable feel (although in the case of Genii thats a shame, since the contents are consistently book-quality).
Now tweeting daily from @David_Acer


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