Jason Latimer TV appearance this week!

Discuss the latest news and rumors in the magic world.

Postby Richard Kaufman » 12/13/05 09:52 AM

Jason Latimer will be appearing on the Late Late Show with Craig Ferguson on Thursday, December 15th.
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Postby Terry_Holley » 12/15/05 08:12 PM

I was getting ready to tape this tonight (really early tomorrow morning) when I realized it was probably on last night (really early this morning)!

So I checked the "Late Late Show" web site and it had no mention of Jason being a guest on December 15. See below:

Originally aired: Thursday December 15, 2005 on CBS

Director: Brian J. McAloon
Show Stars: Craig Ferguson (Host)
All Guest Stars: Michelle Yeoh (Guest), Jeremy Roenick (Guest), Trey Anastasio (Guest)


Guests:
Michelle Yeoh (Memoirs of a Geisha)
Jeremy Roenick (L. A. Kings)
Trey Anastasio

My question is, "Was Jason on the show?"

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Postby Bob Baker » 12/15/05 08:26 PM

He's listed as a guest for December 15. I suspect this actually means Friday December 16 as the show airs after midnight. But the web site is promoting it as "Thursday's Show."

Set your TiVo!

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Postby Guest » 12/15/05 10:14 PM

I just checked my Cable Box info, it is tonight's show or to be correct, this morning's show. 12:30 AM 12/16/05
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Postby Terry_Holley » 12/15/05 11:33 PM

I just saw it (the cups).

WOW!

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Postby MBJ » 12/15/05 11:38 PM

I just saw it too. Slick routine!
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Postby Guest » 12/16/05 12:14 AM

Just finished watching it.

Don't really have much to say other then I'm confused.

Confused at how this is a "WOW" or "Slick Routine".

Not to put down the performance in anyway, but just don't really get the hype.

I have never seen the performance of this particular trick done since all the hype about it and would think that I would have been blown away.

Some really talented magicians seeemed to have been amazed by this.

To me everything that was done was very telling of what was going on. I know this was a televsion performance but still they were a fair distance away.

I watched this performance with 6 non-magician friends. Almost everyone kept stating what they thought he was doing and what he would do next by the specific sleights he had just done.

I didn't tell them but they were all right!

How could the most lay of lay people know whats going on and not be impressed but magicians (awards, etc.) be amazed?

Why all the hype?
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Postby Terry_Holley » 12/16/05 07:22 AM

L.Z.

I've edited your response below:

Originally posted by L.Z.:

Just finished watching it.

Don't really have much to say other then I'm confused.

Confused at how this is a "WOW" or "Slick Routine".

I watched this performance with 6 non-magician friends. Almost everyone kept stating what they thought he was doing and what he would do next by the specific sleights he had just done.

I didn't tell them but they were all right!

How could the most lay of lay people know whats going on and not be impressed but magicians (awards, etc.) be amazed?

Why all the hype?
Sounds to me that your non-magician friends have seen an inept, non-slick, non-WOW performance of the cups in the past and knew a bit of what to expect at certain times.

But even with that possible previous knowledge, I find it hard to believe that they specifically knew what was coming (aside from the crystal ball "division" which the audience may have caught a glimpse of prior to the revelation of it).

I'd have to see it all again to give an "in-depth" analysis, but as a first-time observer (and isn't that what it's all about?) I give it a thumbs up: nice routine, full of surprises, good music, great smile, very different. I think Jason did a great job of conveying a pleasant personality without even talking!

I've had a "romance" with the cups for 40 years, and particularly a Crystal Cup and Ball routine for 30 of those (there is a photo on Jim Riser's C&B web site). Of course I have ideas about Jason's routine, but I'll need the help of your friends to explain how much of it happened!

My one negative comment: There was something about the intro by Craig Ferguson that was not to my liking.

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Postby Arnie Fuoco » 12/16/05 09:40 PM

I throughly enjoyed Jason's performance. His presentation, music and facial expression were excellent. If anything can be critized I believe it may be that too many things occur and sometimes the effect appears confusing but overall this is minor. I doubt that non-magicians caught any moves. I played it back many times in slow motion and was able to pick up some of the moves but certainly couldn't on the first go. This may be a case of non-magician's noise like he used "sleight of hand" or " he palmed it" or "it's just a stunt" to explain something that is really puzzling them.
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Postby MaxNY » 12/19/05 09:40 PM

Brilliant! This was my first time seeing Jason's C&B routine. There was about twenty or thirty moves I have never seen before! Perhaps the moves were all done in a rushed faster motion,this was an obvious "flag" for layman.... he couldn't rely on the "one ahead" tool, so he had to re-think the classic. Layman can spot fast moves, but get blindsided to the "one ahead". I love these kind of guys. He looked polished, hands trembled slightly in fear, makes you have sympathy , and places him in the Underdog position. Nice smile, good acting...innovative too. I didn't care for that type of ending. I guess there has been chapters written just on the BIG FINISH. Why do you think he chose to go that route? Not the big round-out whallop that smacks C&B's. I know, I know, it's impossible to pre-load Caddys under glass, but maybe a silk under the first, covers the second with the scarf...boom! Instant jello or something...
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Postby Pete Biro » 12/20/05 10:19 AM

Mnor point... Jason changes his routine often trying new variations. Wait 'til you see what he's working on now! (Illusions)!!!!
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Postby Jonathan Townsend » 12/20/05 10:24 AM

This is the second time I've seen his routine from a TV appearance. This time around he faced lousy lighting and some bad camera angles. He was left with a cup on his lap too. Did he so much as flinch or glance at the problem? Nope. He did the routine and the audience seemed to get drawn right into the music and the magic. Bravo!
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Postby Guest » 12/20/05 07:26 PM

L.Z - I agreee...

too much hype for a confusing cups and balls routine. I was watching this routine with 3 friends who DO NOT do magic, nor do they know much about it. I did not preface this routine, I didn't say anything except: "Hey guys, watch this"
and at the end...all three were a bit lost and didn't understand why the cups were clear and why he was on a national TV show...

just a thought...
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Postby Guest » 12/20/05 10:32 PM

and in my opinion a very good thought...

When Jason opens the routine, he makes the cups appear.

It seemed as though the studio audience didn't think much of it, since there was complete silence. JL then made some very awkward silly faces and gestures which in my opinion do not fit what he is doing.

As stated before, without every seeing that trick done in the past, these lay people had a very good understanding of what he was doing to make those cups appear.

I definitely think that Nicholas Carifo is extremely correct when he suggested that "magicians as a while sometimes have a very unrealistic world view of what "real people" think. Everything that Nicholas Carifo was very well said.

In general his hand positioning, when he laps, and when he steals are very telling. Not just to me, but to these people I was with. The most lay of lay people. There were 4 guys and 2 girls and maybe 2 might have seen a performance of the cups and balls in the past.

It was interesting to see the way JL performs. Much different then I would have imagined, being that I have never seen him before this TV show. I was surprised by the music, his gestures, and behavior during it. Some what silly and cheesy.

Since reading the responses to my post, I decided to show this to more people to see what they thought. Normal people that I did not really say much about what I was getting ready to show them.

Again most of these people were not really too impressed in the sense that they were amazed.

One person said that she felt as though it wasn't magic, but a skill that if you practiced enough someone could learn. She felt as though it appeared as though it was just a specific "move" JL was repeating to accomplish this "trick". She said it wasn't magic to her.

Almost all of the people in this room agreed. She said magic to her is something that should seem amazing, look amazing, be impossible, but JL's trick looked just like he spent hours on end throwing balls back and forth into his hands, hiding them in his lap, etc.

She said it would be like learning how to juggle to her. A juggler would be amazing the person with their skill but not with this sense of "how could he do that?"

She then said besides juggling, it would be in her opinion like a person doing 3 card monte. Thats not magic but a technical skilled trick.

This comes from a person that watched this video once and had no idea on how to do the C&B's.

Another person asked if what he saw in one of the cups was a "division" and "why was it that every time JL made another ball appear he turned the cup slightly?".

Again this comes from a person that watched this video once and had no idea on how to do the C&B's.

Someone said to me that the only people he would expect to appreciate the effort JL put into this effect would be magicians.

I myself have never really performed the C&B's during my performances and really haven't studied it to the point in which I can call myself a genius on the topic. But I must say on my first run of seeing him perform it I understood each and everything he was doing. Wasn't fooled by any of it, which doesn't make it bad, but makes me feel like how could this win the "olympics" of magic, and be on national tv for this performance. I think if it was just a magic performance seen on TV I would have not thought much of it but because of the hype, it was sort of ruined. Which I will get to in a bit.

Arnie, you said that you viewed this performance and could only pick up some of the moves? I would watch it again then because if you watched it in slow-mo then everything is picked up extremely easy.

You also mentioned that it is that there are too many things occuring sometimes and the effect appears confusing, but that is just "minor". In my opinion that could be the worst thing possible. If something is confusing and in the end the spectator(s) would be confused. How will they know what happened? What magic occured?

When the people I was with suggested their opinions it wasn't just throwing out ideas or words they knew they could throw out, like "palm", "stunt" because they were puzzled, but what they suggested was what they really thought was happening with a strong belief in what they were saying because the visibly saw it in front of them.

MaxNy was correct wote suggesting that he didnt care for that type of ending. I don't think many people did. I do not think that anyone put him into the "underdog position" though. Especially when the host announces him and says "he's named the world champion magician by FISM".

Maybe just in general as MaxNY said JL had trembling hands and it makes you feel sympothy, but just from the begining of the hosts introduction, the audience didn't seemt to be excited by what they were told he was going to be doing. It seemed as though they actually laughed when he said C&B's. Almost as though they thought the host was joking that a magician would be on the show for that effect.

If the case of JL performing in lousy lighting and some bad camera angles which is what Jonathan Townsend mentioned. The lighting i'm figuring he was aware of before entering the stage to go live. Angles? The camera was straight on. Didn't move at all. He knew where to perform to, just as though he was performing live. If anything was seen left on his lap and he didn't flinch it was because thats his routine, not because of angles.

TheMagicApple - I thank you for understanding what I'm trying to say. I said what I said because I just can't understand why this particular effect got so much attention. I think when you hype something up people get into having such expectations about it and if it is not exactly as you imagined it, it is truly a let down.
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Postby CraigMitchell » 12/21/05 12:17 AM

1 - Is this clip available for download any where ?


2 - "but makes me feel like how could this win the "olympics" of magic"


Very simply - and this is what most people forget - acts which win FISM are magician pleasers. It is a magic contest attended by magicians and judged by magicians. Jason's act is a true magician pleaser & was designed as such.

I saw the act in FISM and it killed the audience - very enjoyable ... but I have no idea as to whether it is as effective for laypeople ? Cups and balls excite magicians - most others don't share in the enthusiasm :)
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Postby Chris Aguilar » 12/21/05 06:15 AM

At the risk of seeming contrary, I'll admit that I didn't care much for Latimer's C&B routine.

As some did, I found it seemed to lack focus and I found some of the sequences a bit confusing. Also thought some of his facial expressions weirdly exaggerated and distracting. The "solid cups" thing seemed like one kicker too many to me.

While the "clear" aspect is clever and Mr. Latimer is to be lauded for trying something different, I was reminded that "different isn't always better".

Just one guys opinion.


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Postby justin » 12/21/05 07:01 AM

Here you go guys.
http://www.youtube.com/?v=YlAvfUKvLCw
Bravo, Jason.
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Postby Terry_Holley » 12/21/05 08:16 AM

Thanks for the link, Justin.

I enjoyed the routine even more the second time around!

Now I know why I didn't care for the introduction!

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Postby Bill Mullins » 12/21/05 08:46 AM

Does anyone know what the music was, or the artist?
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Postby Pete Biro » 12/21/05 10:09 AM

Many thanks... even tho' I've seen him do it maybe 12 times I still enjoy it...
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Postby CraigMitchell » 12/21/05 10:12 AM

Thanks Justin !

Having seen Jason perform live, I don't think the clip really does the effect justice. Far better in person ( as are most things performance wise :) )
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Postby justin » 12/21/05 11:39 AM

I agree,
Jason has taken a classic and made it his own. Not many people have been able to do that. Dai, Slydini,Carney, and a few others cross my mind. Not a bad list to be "bunched" with..not bad at all!
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Postby Jeff Haas » 12/21/05 11:48 AM

The concept of the routine feels very old-fashioned. It's a stage manipulation act done closeup.
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Postby Guest » 12/21/05 11:48 AM

That is an original handling.

However, the very first I saw doing the C&Bs using clear glass tumblers without any gaffs was Phoa Yan Tiong, must have been in the 1970s.

Pure sleight of hand and misdirection.
For once, I don't have a capture of this performance :(
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Postby Guest » 12/21/05 12:26 PM

I agree that FISM is a magician's thing, tricks that "fool" magicians is the concept but does a so-so cups and balls routine deserve to be called "The Grand Prix of Magic"...out of 6 billion people on this planet, are "three" cups and "three" balls the best?

woo...they are clear. Like Werner said...its been done. And to group a 25 year-old magician with Dai Slydini et al, is an overstatement...

again...just my opinion

oh, I have a copy of the routine if anyone is in the Studio City area and wants to see it
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Postby Guest » 12/21/05 12:26 PM

I agree that FISM is a magician's thing, tricks that "fool" magicians is the concept but does a so-so cups and balls routine deserve to be called "The Grand Prix of Magic"...out of 6 billion people on this planet, are "three" cups and "three" balls the best?

woo...they are clear. Like Werner said...its been done. And to group a 25 year-old magician with Dai Slydini et al, is an overstatement...

again...just my opinion
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Postby Guest » 12/21/05 12:34 PM

Originally posted by TheMagicApple:
...oh, I have a copy of the routine if anyone is in the Studio City area and wants to see it
Which routine please, Latimers?

If you are talking about Phoa Yan Tiong, I send you an email !
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Postby MaxNY » 12/21/05 07:14 PM

"expressions of exaggeration" were distracting...maybe on a Porpoise. New ideas need new tools. Your eyes, and your facial experssions are your biggest tools. A perfectly timed smile is the best tool in your toolbox.
"sequences a bit confusing"...isn't "confusing" what we are all about? Give me an example of what sequence was confusing.
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Postby Chris Aguilar » 12/21/05 09:01 PM

MaxNY,

I'm glad to hear that you enjoyed the routine even though it didn't do much for me.
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Postby Larry Barnowsky » 12/22/05 05:37 AM

I applaud Jason for the creation of the technology of his clear cups and balls. His personality is very engaging. However, the routine was much too long, difficult to follow (not figure out), and confusing in general. He reached behind his table too many times and for no apparent reason. After the apparent ending, there was an anti-climatic arranging of props.
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Postby Brian Glicker » 12/22/05 12:24 PM

Much as I hate to disagree with The MagicApple - you don't know what you're talking about. Jason isn't just great, he's one of the best. His close up work at the Castle is wonderful. He has the personality, the chops, the "look" and just about everything else. On top of that he is one of the nicest guys in magic.

Oh, by the way, his cups and balls are amazing.
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Postby Guest » 12/22/05 03:27 PM

Brit: you "clearly" don't know what you're talking about. I can "see" right through you
ha ha

Happy New Year and Merry ChristmaKwanzaChukkah to everyone!!
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Postby Arnie Fuoco » 12/22/05 05:04 PM

As I said previously, I thought this was outstanding. I may be viewing this through a magicians eyes but I'm also trying to frame the performance. Here is a young man on a network show (not cable) that is a series. His appearance , music, presentation are quite pleasing. We certainly can disagree about the performance however, I don't think anyone thinks he bombed. Since we are magicians critiquing this performance it begs the question; "how many of us can ever achieve such a feat especially in our 20's."
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Postby George Olson » 12/22/05 06:30 PM

Does anyone remember Shawn Farquers (SP) solid cup routine at the PCAM 2000 here in PDX?

That and the signed card in an unopened card case were the talk of the day....

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Postby RogerPierre » 08/02/08 06:10 PM

First of all, until you do an appearance on US primetime or late-nite television, you do not know what pressure is -- personally, my 12 minute act got cut to 9 as they opened the curtains for me on The Tonight Show, "You are down to 9!" -- and you have been told that you will be cut off for a commercial, even for a second over -- elsewhere, much looser, no commercials -- Go one YouTube and watch the act he did several months before in France or on one of the Asian networks. And I can't blame him for putting together an act that uses gestures, when you know you'll be doing it for non-English speaking audiences. And they looked better on French TV -- you don't know what reaction he was getting from the audience on Craig's Show.

We in magic are considered to be a novelty act, even Jimmy Grippo (Carson's favorite magician and friend) only did The Tonight Show twice!


Just an aside --
I bought a set of Solid Cups back in the early '70's!

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Postby Shawn Farquhar » 08/11/08 02:05 AM

Hi Roger,

Super curious to know what set of solid cups you bought in the 70's. I was aware of a single solid cup routine from Japan but in all my research have never seen a "set of solid cups" before mine. Do you still have them? If so, do you know who made them. If not do you know who you sold them to?

Sure would like you to enlighten me further. I will be selling my original FISM award winning routine in the very near future and would love to give credit where credit is due. I am one to acknowledge when something is original ...

Cheers,

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Postby Nicholas Carifo » 08/11/08 02:28 AM

Shawn,

First off... I saw your act for the first time in Louisville. Fantastic.

Second, by way of your previous post requesting info on solid cup routines. Tho not a set of solid cups, sometime around the late 1980's I purchased a chop cup routine on the market done with a bell and it's clapper (instead of a ball). This was a brass bell who's finale was a solid brass bell ending. I no longer have it, nor remember who developed it, but most probably purchased it at that time from either Tannens or Hank Lee.

You may already be aware of it, of course.

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Postby Richard Kaufman » 08/11/08 08:49 AM

The solid cup routine (with a single wooden cup) was devised by Shigeo Takagi in the 1970s and sold in Japan. It was later marketed in the United States by Beff Jusby, and then I put it in the Takagi book.

The idea of using a solid Okito box belongs to Karl Fulves and was published in the Pallbearers Review in, I think, the early 1970s.

I'm sure someone had the idea of doing cups and balls and ending with solid cups a while back. It's just not that much of a jump.
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Postby Joe Pecore » 08/11/08 12:42 PM

Paul Harris published "uncanny" in Las Vegas Close-up (1978) which uses a solid, unopened can of Beanie Weenies as the cup.
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Postby Richard Kaufman » 08/11/08 03:31 PM

The Takagi routine predates that. And the Fulves solid Okito predates that.
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