Mysterious book

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Postby magicam » 11/08/05 08:18 PM

pierredan wrote:
Since this book is sold out, there is no point in ... giving a review since it will serve no practical purpose.
I guess it depends on the meaning of "practical purpose," but assuming the purpose of a book review is not always to sell copies (which is quite true), I think there are many other reasons why a book review remains appropos despite a book's sold-out status.

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Postby Guest » 11/08/05 08:40 PM

Let's respect the Secret!
Secrets are one of the most important tools that Magic Fraternity has got to preserve themselves.
I love Secrets!
And since i'll soon be the owner of this precious book, i'll keep the secret.
I can speak about it only with close and trusty friend magicians.
But surely enough i will not post anything about it on the internet.
Let the secrets grow, let our Art rebirth!
Crim
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Postby Eric Rose » 11/09/05 06:35 AM

I almost missed this one. Mr. Minch said that when I called he only had 8 copies left. Whew.

He told me just enough to keep me interested, but I ain't tippin' any of it.

Looking forward to it.
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Postby magicam » 11/09/05 07:38 AM

Jonathan!

Clarity my man!

If ignorance = secrets, you have no worries!

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Postby Jonathan Townsend » 11/09/05 07:40 AM

Ah that wonderful line from the "Rocky Horror Picture Show" about quivering with anticipation.

ROFL

The book has a nice title and will likely prompt many a "What's that?" from folks if you leave it in view.
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Postby Jonathan Townsend » 11/09/05 07:47 AM

Originally posted by crimsonking:
Let's respect the Secret!
Secrets are one of the most important tools that Magic Fraternity has got to preserve themselves.
I love Secrets!...
That, unfortunately is pretty much the problem IN our craft.

I don't like secrets. More a necessary burden than a "bragging rights" thing IMHO. Each brings a responsibility to the giver and to the provenance of the material entrusted.
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Postby Terrence » 11/09/05 01:57 PM

Just to confirm for everybody on the thread:

I called, and the book is now completely sold out.

Congratulations to all who have their copy, and let it be known that I'm supremely jealous - but I can handle it - it's all for the Art.

And what an excellent way to generate interest - hats off!
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Postby Jim Klodzen » 11/21/05 05:29 PM

Recieved mine today. I smiled and thought to myself "Brilliant!"
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Postby Guest » 11/22/05 01:35 PM

I'd love to hear some comments on this "book"
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Postby Bob Baker » 11/23/05 07:45 AM

I received mine and thought, "That's it??"

I'll admit that it grows on you some, but I think that the marketing was more "brilliant" than the book. After all, if you had known in advance what it was, would you have plunked down the $50?

I think not.

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Postby Jonathan Townsend » 11/23/05 08:27 AM

Originally posted by Bob Baker:
I received mine and thought, "That's it??"

I'll admit that it grows on you some, but I think that the marketing was more "brilliant" than the book. After all, if you had known in advance what it was, would you have plunked down the $50?

I think not.

Bob
Okay, so beyond "bragging rights" does the book have any utility?
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Postby Robert Allen » 11/23/05 08:31 AM

Oh come on :) First it was only $50. Docc Hillford has sold super-uber-super-secrets for a lot more than that. Second, there was absolutely no info on what it was about. Third it was by Max Maven. No disrepspect meant to Mr. Maven, but if I was him and saw how much his books have gone for on the 'bay over the years, I would be mightily tempted to release such a book where each page simply had the number "42" on it :) .

This way to the Egress....
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Postby Jonathan Townsend » 11/23/05 08:41 AM

Originally posted by Robert Allen:
Oh come on :) First it was only $50. Docc Hillford has sold super-uber-super-secrets for a lot more than that. Second, there was absolutely no info on what it was about. Third it was by Max Maven. No disrepspect meant to Mr. Maven, but if I was him and saw how much his books have gone for on the 'bay over the years, I would be mightily tempted to release such a book where each page simply had the number "42" on it :) .
Kewl, I guess this means we are in store for a collection of Dai Vernon's kids paintings and drawings he kept on the fridge over the years that inspired him to come up with the material in his "secrets" books. How about the cocktail napkins Lewis Ganson used to take notes ( or authorized copies thereof) for the deluxe edition?
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Postby Robert Allen » 11/23/05 09:42 AM

Strange, but I can almost see a market for the cocktail napkin book you mention :)
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Postby John LeBlanc » 11/23/05 11:09 AM

Originally posted by Robert Allen:
Oh come on :) First it was only $50. Docc Hillford has sold super-uber-super-secrets for a lot more than that.
And some of us paid and were not happy with the value received. Besides, I'm not sure comparing Docc and Max is such a fair rasslin' match.

Second, there was absolutely no info on what it was about.
That's correct. And absent any specific information, I'd venture to say most of us relied on our respect for both Maven and Minch -- respect earned over the course of many years.

Third it was by Max Maven. No disrepspect meant to Mr. Maven, but if I was him and saw how much his books have gone for on the 'bay over the years, I would be mightily tempted to release such a book where each page simply had the number "42" on it :) .
Maybe you would, Robert, but I don't expect Max or Stephen to do so. And Prism certainly demonstrated a level of restraint that should be acknowledged.

I'm going to withhold judgement on this unpleasant little book for a little while longer.

John
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Postby Erik Hemming » 11/23/05 02:12 PM

Re: The Protocols of the Elders of Magic

It's a thing of beauty.

Production, as usual, was exquisite.

Mr. Minch advertised exactly what it wasn't.

His response to orders--mine at least--was precisely worded, and exactly right.

Mr. Maven executed it with erudition, and a black, mordant glee.

(The title, itself, may be worth $50.00.)

It was a satisfying read and makes me grin every time I think of it.

Deep thanks to all involved.

gordo
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Postby Jacky Kahan » 11/23/05 03:15 PM

Interesting.. on ebay ... prices already vary between 75$ and 275 check here

Jacky
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Postby Matthew Field » 11/24/05 05:54 AM

I love the fact that two of the sellers can't even get the title correct.

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Postby John LeBlanc » 11/24/05 09:02 AM

Originally posted by Matthew Field:
I love the fact that two of the sellers can't even get the title correct.
Hmmm, I must have missed that. The only changes I see (at least in the auctions for the Maven book) is that some do not include "The" in the title.

Here\'s a link to only the magic book auctions, instead of a listing including that other book.

John
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Postby Guest » 11/24/05 10:06 AM

I'm very very disappointed by all the people who are selling or will sell their "PROTOCOLS" on ebay.
It is your right to sell your book..
but it seems to me very early to see the book on ebay right now.
It's a shame..
i think that all the people who are selling their "PROTOCOLS" are not true magic lovers.
It was designed to be a secret..
so at least you should have waited some months or maybe years, before selling it.
But i think the best thing to do was for the 500 owners of the book..never to sell it and..
to keep the SECRET!!
It's only my humble opinion but i feel that there is no more culture of the secret.
I expected to see some U2 ticket for sale on ebay the same day the ticket went out..but never and never i expected this little book on ebay so early.
I think that the people who are selling this book now, shouldn't deserve to buy other secret books.
It is only my humble opinion and i'm waiting for opinions of yours, also in contrast with mine.
Let me know what you magic lovers think.
Best regards.
Crim
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Postby Richard Hatch » 11/24/05 10:17 AM

Originally posted by crimsonking:
I'm very very disappointed by all the people who are selling or will sell their "PROTOCOLS" on ebay.
It is your right to sell your book..
but it seems to me very early to see the book on ebay right now.
It it my understanding that one of the reasons the book sold out so quickly is that several people ordered multiple copies, as many as 5 in one case. No doubt this was done in some cases as an investment, with the intent to resell at a profit. Which is what seems to be happening on eBay now...
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Postby Guest » 11/24/05 11:08 AM

Crimsonking

Well, I bought three copies.

One for a friend, one for my permanent library and one for speculation (such as Cards as Weapons which I do not own because of the outrageous price this is going for).

Maybe I'll sell my spare copy now, maybe in a few years; maybe it will make a special gift one day.

I did not receive them yet, so I cannot confirm or deny that It was designed to be a secret.

It seems to me that if this book was really meant to be limited distribution and that no copies would be offered for sale on eBay, it should have been limited to one book per customer.
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Postby Guest » 11/24/05 11:39 AM

Originally posted by crimsonking:
It was designed to be a secret..
If it's so important that it be kept secret, then why was it published?

Dave
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Postby Guest » 11/24/05 12:07 PM

Maybe one thing is right.
That it should have been limited 1 copy per customer.
When i speak about secrets, i want only to say that it would be a nice thing if there were more secrets in this Art and Craft.
I think Magic is a field which gives great space for secrets.
Secrets are the base of this wondeful Art.
I mean.. it is nice to buy copies for magic friends etcc..
but i don't like the idea to sell the book so early on ebay.
Now i'm speaking strictly for "THE PROTOCOLS" book.
It would have been nice if all the owners had waited a little longer before selling their copies on ebay.
I live in Italy and i'm still waiting for my copy.
I would have loved if all the owners would have ketpt their secret a little longer.
Just that.
If you think about it..
what a wonderful thing would be if only 500 people in the world would know the "PROTOCOLS" secret.
Maybe who among you who have received your book, don't think the secret is worth.
But i think that the concept of keeping a secret would be great!
In these days too many people can "buy" all the magic secrets if they want.
this would have been an exception.
Too late.
Maybe in the future..
maybe..
Crim
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Postby Jonathan Townsend » 11/24/05 12:22 PM

First, the item was not designed as a secret to be held precious by a few. It was a publicly offered and advertised item.

There is a post elsewhere asking about the cost of trust and the price of secrets.

Bemoaning that one one can buy secrets with dollars and treat magic items as property?

Or just whining that kids on the internet will be downloading the scanned book on torrent or P2P systems before you get to revel in having a secret?

Pity would be wasted.

is "Crimson King" a reference to the group and album of similar name?
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Postby Guest » 11/24/05 02:20 PM

I'm not bemoaning at all.
I just expressed my opinion.
And i'm very open to all of yours opinion.
I don't want to make you change idea.
For what concerns me, my "PROTOCOLS" will never be on sale.
The name Crimsonking comes from...
oops.
It's a secret!
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Postby John LeBlanc » 11/24/05 04:39 PM

Originally posted by Dave Le Fevre:
If it's so important that it be kept secret, then why was it published?
Maybe the secret of the book isn't the point. Maybe, in part, it's a demonstration to see who has the integrity to abide by a simple request.

Not telling the secret takes no more effort than telling the secret. So what's left is integrity.

John
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Postby Guest » 11/24/05 05:20 PM

I think Mr. John LeBlanc posted a great message.
It was the point i was trying to make.
Maybe i focused too much on the "secret".
The point is Mr.Minch asked a very simple thing.
Why ruin it all selling the "PROTOCOLS" on ebay after 2 minutes!
Yes..
Integrity..
Integrity!..
and Secret!
Crim
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Postby Jonathan Townsend » 11/24/05 05:36 PM

Originally posted by Jonathan Townsend:
Originally posted by crimsonking:
[b] ...Maybe i focused too much on the "secret".
The point is Mr.Minch asked a very simple thing.
Why ruin it all selling the "PROTOCOLS" on ebay after 2 minutes!...
Agreed about secrets Crimson, as Del Ray and others have demonstrated.

Also agreed about things being better if people did treat secrets differently. I've written about that elsewhere. Look for the questions about the value of a surprise and the cost of a secret.

Puzzled though about what Mr Minch may have asked. If it's not too much to ask... what did he ask that you feel was not honored? [/b]
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Postby magicam » 11/24/05 11:24 PM

Jonathan T. wrote:
is "Crimson King" a reference to the group and album of similar name?
I think the name of the group was actually King Crimson - not a bad band either.

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Postby Robert Allen » 11/25/05 09:46 AM

Well I'd like one, if for no other reason than the punnish title, but I'm not going to pay scalpers for it. I'm sure curious as to whether this isn't some form or interesting social experiment by Mr. Maven.
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Postby Bill Palmer » 11/25/05 10:03 AM

I purchased a copy of the book as soon as I learned that it was going to be published. It arrived this morning.

Knowing Max as well as I do, I knew that he must have had something of value to offer the magic fraternity. Considering how much of value he has given us in the past for so little money, in many cases, I felt that even if only one secret were revealed, it would be worth it.

The contents of the book were not revealed to me ahead of time. However, they were not a secret to me, either. Nevertheless, to find the depth to which Brother Maven has researched this secret was worth the price of the book to me.

It may not be to someone else, but hey! Different horses, different courses.

Ars longa, vita brevis.
Bill Palmer, MIMC
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Postby Guest » 11/25/05 10:12 AM

Originally posted by Magicam:
Jonathan T. wrote:
is "Crimson King" a reference to the group and album of similar name?
I think the name of the group was actually King Crimson - not a bad band either.
They did have a track called (if memory serves) At the Court of the Crimson King. So Crimson King and King Crimson would both be valid references.

Dave
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Postby NCMarsh » 11/25/05 01:19 PM

This wonderfully unpleasant little book arrived at chez Marsh this morning...

Had I known the secret, I may not have purchased it. That would have been a mistake. Mr. Minch's comments about knowing the secret before reading the book are, in my view, dead on -- it is a lot like hearing the punchline before the setup.

The amount of work that went into this is staggering.

N.
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Postby Eric Rose » 11/25/05 02:21 PM

I received my copy and immediately set to reading it. A few pages in I realized what I was reading and became absolutely giddy. I could barely wait to turn the next page. I can honestly say it was one of the most inspirational reads I've done in ages. It thoroughly invigorated me.

Thank you, Mssrs. Maven and Minch, for the work, the production values, and the secret. I am proud to add this book to my library.

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Postby Guest » 11/25/05 04:44 PM

I don't understand something!
On ebay there is a copy of the "PROTOCOLS" which is going for 250 dollars.
In the description it says that it is the only copy signed by both the author and the publisher.
Is it possible?
Very strange.
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Postby Dustin Stinett » 11/25/05 10:05 PM

You left out a key word: "...only known copy..."

That could easily mean that it is the only known copy as far as the sell is concerned.

Had I asked Mr. Minch to sign my copy as well, I suspect he would have agreed. In fact, I didn't think of it, I was so happy to get the number I wanted!

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Postby Guest » 11/26/05 08:30 AM

Dustin,

What number did you ask for?

I'm still waiting for mine.
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Postby magicam » 11/26/05 03:07 PM

Dustin, you are correct in how you have parsed the words of the Ebay seller when it comes to the "only known" phrase, but IMHO it still wreaks of misleading or sensationalistic advertising, and is an insult to the intelligence of buyers. I wonder what Minch thinks knowing his signature is being hawked in such a manner? Clay
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Postby Dustin Stinett » 11/26/05 05:14 PM

Clay: I agree--it's a typical marketing ploy I see all the time. The perpetrator simply gets to say, "Well, I didn't lie."

Dustin
(Who loves, and received, the number 13).
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