Incredible New Coin Gaff Created....

Discuss the latest news and rumors in the magic world.

Postby Nathan Kranzo » 01/20/06 12:20 PM

For those of you who have not seen or heard about CERBERUS it is a brand new coin gaff created by Todd Lassen and Dave Neighbors. They have been keeping it under wraps for some time and now it is finally available.

I am blown away by the concept and the craftsmanship of this new gaff. Way to go Dave and Todd!

The possibilities are endless with this gaff.

For more info and pictures of the gaff got to www.toddlassen.com

All the best,

Nathan
Nathan Kranzo
 
Posts: 63
Joined: 04/27/08 11:42 AM

Postby Guest » 01/20/06 06:23 PM

I think this is just a remake of a gaff that originally came from england a couple decades ago. Might be Bob Swadlings work which makes sense since it's called the *3BS* on Lassens site.
cl
Guest
 

Postby Todd Lassen » 01/20/06 06:43 PM

Thanks Kranzo for the unexpected plug. We appreciate it, especially since very few people have seen it thus far.

Coinlover, I see your only 3 posts were made solely to harass me. I consider it an honor. Anyway, your post above is hilarious. Thank you also.
Todd Lassen
 
Posts: 126
Joined: 01/17/08 01:00 PM
Location: Davenport, Iowa

Postby Pete Biro » 01/20/06 07:13 PM

Todd, I wish you would let your work stand on its own and not knock your competition in your ad copy... :genii:
Stay tooned.
User avatar
Pete Biro
 
Posts: 7124
Joined: 01/17/08 01:00 PM
Location: Hollyweird

Postby Todd Lassen » 01/20/06 07:59 PM

Pete. Pay attention. And look at what happened last time we put something on the market that was new to the coin world. Not to mention my other products. Triple Threat was knocked off immediately and now Magic and Mum magazines are reviewing the knockoff!!! There is no shame!

Look here: http://www.toddlassen.com/coins/csb/lrg ... inglib.jpg

This is a set I first manufactured 6 years ago. The first set went to Doc Eason who has his own routine and patter for this specific set.

Now look here: http://www.coingaffs.com/cop_si_cop_sil_brass_main.htm

This is just ONE example of MANY. If you would like more, I can post more. Like I stated in an earlier post, with 10 million coins in the world, Schoolcraft isn't even original enough to pick out his own dang coins to make his sets.

I hope that is enough explanation for you to get off my case. If you think I enjoy being knocked off on everything that I do, just so I can bitch about it, think again.
Todd Lassen
 
Posts: 126
Joined: 01/17/08 01:00 PM
Location: Davenport, Iowa

Postby Guest » 01/20/06 08:57 PM

Todd, I have been waiting for you to add this to your site for a while now. David has talked about it a few times before on the cafe. Does David have any clips of him using this gaff? Also, Nathan I replied to your post of this on the cafe, But it looks like Mr. Brooks, and i use that term lightly, has deleted it again.
Good work again Todd.

Corey
Guest
 

Postby Nathan Kranzo » 01/20/06 11:51 PM

My pleasure Corey!

Hey Todd,

Apparently someone didn't get the BS joke. It stands for something totally different, but painfully obvious.

I've never met Swadling but he is obviously a great thinker and he should get credit where credit is due.

:) I heard that Swadling actually invented gun powder....and I think the microwave too.

LOL!

Kranzo
Nathan Kranzo
 
Posts: 63
Joined: 04/27/08 11:42 AM

Postby Pete Biro » 01/21/06 12:54 PM

Nte... Swadlding is not that kind of guy who would "claim" anything not his. Others may make comments, but Bob is a very humble guy.
Stay tooned.
User avatar
Pete Biro
 
Posts: 7124
Joined: 01/17/08 01:00 PM
Location: Hollyweird

Postby Pete Biro » 01/21/06 12:57 PM

My point was you should deal with copiests privately and it just TO ME cheapens your ad copy when you mention these things.

You don't need to do it.

You make great stuff, no question, and in ADVERTISING/CATALOG listings it is best to leave out the PERSONAL stuff... IMHO :)
Stay tooned.
User avatar
Pete Biro
 
Posts: 7124
Joined: 01/17/08 01:00 PM
Location: Hollyweird

Postby Nathan Kranzo » 01/21/06 01:53 PM

Hi Pete,

"Swadlding is not that kind of guy who would "claim" anything not his. Others may make comments, but Bob is a very humble guy. "

That is pretty much what my post was trying to say Pete. If Bob wants to talk I'll listen, but like you said Pete, when others make claims it is wasted breath as it has no weight at all.

Speaking of humble guys...so is Todd. I've known Todd for a number of years and he is not the kind of guy who wants to be involved in this crap, but he wants to defend himself. I understand that venting is not your style Pete. And I also understand your opinion regarding Todd's add/catalog copy. Obviously Todd doesn't agree and has his own opinion. It would be a boring world if we all had the same opinion. : )

All the best,

Nathan
Nathan Kranzo
 
Posts: 63
Joined: 04/27/08 11:42 AM

Postby MitchSchneiter » 01/21/06 04:13 PM

I was fortunate to pick up a Cerberus set from Todd back in September (it is a killer coin gaff!) and Dave Neigbors' Cerberus DVD containing multiple effects with different applications (International 3 Fly, Coins through table, matrix, etc.). If you're into coin work and clever gaffs, this is a must have (As is all of Todd's work!).
MitchSchneiter
 
Posts: 46
Joined: 02/29/08 01:00 PM
Location: West Linn, Oregon

Postby David Neighbors » 01/23/06 12:21 PM

Hi Gang,
Hay thanks Mitch and Niathan. I Am working
on a few more routines with it. I not sure When thay will be ready! But right now I have a DVD of 10 routines with it out! E-Mail me At Coinjurer@earthlink.net For More Info on It! Thanks Gang!

Best David Neighbors
The Coinjurer
www.coinjurer.com
David Neighbors
 
Posts: 19
Joined: 04/08/08 09:05 AM

Postby NCMarsh » 01/23/06 04:09 PM

Todd,

I have a tremendous amount of respect for your fine work and have no stake/interest in the issue and am not a partisan for one side or the other.

I am, however, confused by your claims that Schoolcraft has ripped you off on the nesting shells.

My understanding (and please correct it if it is wrong): Connie Haden had the basic idea, R. Paul Wilson had the idea of magnetizing it, and Schoolcraft -- I believe (?) -- had the idea of using different shims to make the gaff more convincing.

If this understanding is accurate, I don't see why you have any more right to market this gaff than does Jamie.

Given that the underlying ideas belong to others (and my understanding is that Paul Wilson expressly gave his permission to Jamie), why do you consider the nesting shells proprietary?

the very best,

Nathan.
OrlandoCorporateMagician.com Orlando Magician
User avatar
NCMarsh
 
Posts: 1173
Joined: 02/16/08 01:00 PM
Location: Orlando, FL

Postby Todd Lassen » 01/23/06 09:01 PM

Hi Nathan. Thanks for the kind words. Well, there are several issues that I think are relative.

Firstly is the fact that I had been making this gaff and keeping it pretty hush for 5 years. When Troy approached me and asked if I would be interested in releasing it with him, I called Paul Wilson to get his blessing, and I wanted him to have a credit for planting the seed of magnetizing the nest. At this time, Schoolcraft wasn't even aware of it's existence.

After alot of time passed, a DVD was scrapped, and finally Troy had Mark Tams write his notes for the gaff. Troy began lecturing on Triple Threat and gave a lecture at the magic castle. At his lecture he was approached by Jamie and Jamie asked to examine the gaff. Troy allowed him.

About a week later and by coincidence, a friend was staying with me and he had need to talk to Paul Wilson. While he had Paul on the phone, Paul mentioned to me that Dean Dill had called him and had been prying to see who had the "rights" to make this gaff. They had read the credit to Paul in the forward of Troy's notes and decided to approach him.

A few more days go by and one of Jamie's emails to his customers was forwarded to me. He stated that he now had permission to make "Triple Threat" and was currently in production of 12 of them. Shortly after he was selling his crudier version at LMVI and also referring to it as "Triple Threat". He was also showing it around and referring to it as "Triple Threat" at the St. Louis convention. It wasn't until later that he changed the name of his knockoff to 3CM, I imagine after he received a lot of heat. I know that some well known magicians were perturbed that he was asking to photograph some of my gaffs in St. Louis and was refused.

When I examined a knockoff that was later shown to me by a guy that had picked it up at LMVI from Jamie. There were quite a few striking differences that let me know that he had cut a GOOD many corners, and time, when producing the item, the main one being that he isnt making an expanded shell with his set. The other main difference was the fact that I noticed that he had put a piece of Teflon tape in each shell. It was my guess that he was just taping the shims inside the shells. Jamie later stated that he was not just taping them in, but that the shims were bonded and recessed into the shells. A technique that I developed a couple years ago and was evident on Troys gaff that he examined.

So secondly, I have to bring up the fact that 2 machinists seldom do the same thing the same way. I have REPEATEDLY been aware that my methods are being duplicated by Jamie. My methods are usually the result of a lot of research and development, and also trial and error. With all of Jamies work, I can easily see where he borrowed heavily from me. If you would like examples, I can list many. But I think if you just read my above post, you will see that he even goes as far as to duplicate THE SAME coins I am using in my original sets. Without getting all puffy, I have to say that I pioneered alot of the items on Jamies website and I have reason to believe that methods I confided in Dean Dill when making his coinswere passed along to Jamie.

Lastly, I can say that politics came into play when Jamie knocked off my Triple Threat and timing puts his production of the knockoff just a short time after examining Troys Triple Threat. So, like I said in my long spewl before Christmas, camps have formed, I have heard their talking points action figures explaining their side of the argumentthat anyone can make the gimmick since the concept wasnt originated by me. And that Jamies version is different than mine. I can tell you that I changed the way I made Triple Threat a dozen times before Jamie ever saw one. Nothing can convince me that the methods Jamie uses arent a direct copy of my methods. Ive been a toolmaker in a real high-tech shop environment for over 25 years (including 4 years at the Denver Mint), Jamie started on a little hobby lathe that he carried around and made coins in a hotel room. Maybe some of you have heard that hypethe legend of room 502 or some crap. Haha.

Everyone is free to draw their own conclusions.

One more thing about ethics. Jamie was selling his knockoff and implying that anyone could order Troys notes to accommodate his 3CM. He even offered links to Troys email on Magic Caf. When Troy and I first talked about releasing Triple Threat, we intended to release the DVD. The set with DVD was going to sell for $350. I would get the original $250 that I have been charging. When the DVD was scrapped, Troy began selling his notes for a paltry $15. I told Troy he went from making $100 on each one to $15, and at my suggestion we set the price for the gaff and notes at $300. This way Troy makes $50 for each set that I sell and he deserves it. His notes are the only written material on the gaffus and he has spent so much time driving himself around lecturing on it, creating the material, and producing everything. Along comes Schoolcraft, offers a link to Troys email, and suggests his customers get the notes from Troy. He offers Troy nothing and sets the price for his 3CM at $350. A hundred bucks more than what I am receiving.
Todd Lassen
 
Posts: 126
Joined: 01/17/08 01:00 PM
Location: Davenport, Iowa

Postby NCMarsh » 01/23/06 11:44 PM

Todd,

Thanks for taking the time to lay this out.

Best,

N.
OrlandoCorporateMagician.com Orlando Magician
User avatar
NCMarsh
 
Posts: 1173
Joined: 02/16/08 01:00 PM
Location: Orlando, FL

Postby Tabman » 01/24/06 07:01 AM

Todd, sounds like they are following you so close if you were to slam on your brakes it would cause a major pileup.

-=tabman
User avatar
Tabman
 
Posts: 917
Joined: 03/17/09 02:25 PM
Location: TC and KOZ at the Funny Bone

Postby Doomo » 01/24/06 01:35 PM

I saw examples of Todds work, simply the best. He produces top quality, period. As far as the Triple threat goes, I have seen both products... This from a biased source... Schoolcrafts is good... Todds is better ... and first...
RFA Productions yeah... It is cool stuff.

www.rfaproductions.com
Doomo
 
Posts: 299
Joined: 03/13/08 03:23 PM

Postby Hannibal » 01/24/06 03:06 PM

Sorry to break into this thread but;

Todd, I've been trying to reach you ... please contact me.

We now return you to etc etc.

Hannibal
Hannibal
 
Posts: 23
Joined: 03/02/08 01:00 PM
Location: Charlotte. NC

Postby Guest » 02/02/06 03:34 PM

I recently bought the Cerberus and David's DVD. I hadnt seen much talk about this set around, so I thought Id throw together a few notes of my own, for whatever they may be worth:

The Cerberus gaff is a genuinely intriguing device. Like everything else of Todds Ive seen, its extremely well designed and made, and is indistinguishable from a normal coin when it needs to be. It can be shown very freely back and front, provoking no suspicion, and each piece comes with an ungaffed duplicate that matches it perfectly.

In terms of function, its a true utility weapon, lending itself very effectively to many of the classic plots of coin magic and encouraging further exploration. Its certainly one of the most versatile pieces in my own collection, and has already pushed my thinking in a number of new directions.

David Neighbors DVD, International Coin Routines, deals extensively with his approach to the Cerberus set. Davids teaching style is highly energetic, and he comes across on the disc as a furiously inventive mind with a deep love of magic. The ideas come thick and fast, and careful attention has obviously been given to the logical development of each escalating series of effects. This is something that has always impressed me about his work. Production values are pretty average for this type of disc (i.e. functional but not slick), and the camera set-up works against Davids misdirection at times. However, the material is strong and the explanations clear.

Its worth mentioning that, while the effects are grouped on the DVD under six headings, two of the sequences consist of three separate routines each, bringing the total up to ten. Heres a brief rundown of the effects:

1) 3-Fly: A very clean international VCA, with the hands staying entirely separate for the first two phases. This features a really nice backfire-style kicker and flows smoothly into two subsequent routines, culminating in an unexpected transfer of all three coins to the performers pocket. Three hard-hitting tricks in one, and a good basic foundation in the use of the gaff.

2) Merlin the Alchemist: This is a really nice sequence, making excellent use of the Cerberus sets visual potential. It starts off with something of a Spellbound flavour, but then veers hard left with some beautiful transformation effects that occur instantly as the coin is lifted from the tabletop at the magicians fingertips.

3) Coins Through Table: Some very creative handling of the gaff here allows specific coins to pass individually. Theres a very pretty backfire ending and double-kicker to clean up.

4) International Matrix Routines: Three effects that work well individually, or flow together very smoothly into a single routine. The classic Matrix concept, performed with a decreasing number of cards and some backfire endings. A terrific lesson in routine structure and another well conceived application of the Cerberus set.

5) Succession Reverse: A different angle on the Matrix idea, with the twist that the Cerberus permits multiple coins to travel simultaneously. One coin joins another, both jump instantly to the third, then all three hop to join the last. Finally, all four coins leap back to their starting positions.

6) Succession Assembly: Again, multiple coins pass simultaneously, but the addition of a backfire into a purse brings a beautiful circularity to the effect.

The Cerberus allows the above effects to be performed without a lot of heavy lifting. A decent CP and FP are pretty much all that are required. All in all, Im really happy with the gaff and disc, and can offer a whole-hearted recommendation of both.

http://www.toddlassen.com for the gaff.
coinjurer@earthlink.net for the DVD.


A couple of points for the real name crew:

My name is Cy Dethan. Im a freelance writer and editor from England. Before that, I performed magic professionally for three and a half years. I've been studying magic for most of my life, and Im primarily drawn to coin work. Other than being an occasional customer, I have no personal or professional relationships with either David Neighbors or Todd Lassen.
Guest
 


Return to Buzz