Copperfield Raid

Discuss the latest news and rumors in the magic world.

Postby Guest » 10/19/07 08:23 AM

Originally posted by Jim Maloney:
A friend of mine had this to say:

"Geez, you make the Statue of Liberty disappear ONE TIME..."

-Jim
And thanks to the current push for a more secure nation - the investigation happens almost twenty years later - long after the statue was replaced by a chocolate replica. (oops was that exposure?)
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Postby Guest » 10/19/07 10:07 AM

Here is the report from the Fox News Website.

HERE

Let me be the first to say I don't believe this for a second.

Gord
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Postby Dustin Stinett » 10/19/07 10:44 AM

We are a fascinating bunch. Its okay to try someone accused of pedophilia in our public court of opinion, but oneparticularly a famous oneaccused of rape and we tread lightly.

I just realized that dont really know what I believe; I only know what Im prepared to believe, or want to believe. And I think that might be the thing Im finding most disturbing when I consider these two cases.

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Postby Brian Marks » 10/19/07 11:11 AM

Originally posted by DustinStinett:
We are a fascinating bunch. Its okay to try someone accused of pedophilia in our public court of opinion, but oneparticularly a famous oneaccused of rape and we tread lightly.
Lets tread lightly on both and make decisions on facts. Lets not speculate.
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Postby Guest » 10/19/07 11:12 AM

Originally posted by DustinStinett:
...I just realized that dont really know what I believe; I only know what Im prepared to believe, or want to believe. And I think that might be the thing Im finding most disturbing ...
IMHO that is a profound awareness. The stories we live inside and the stories we attend can have significant influence over us.
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Postby Guest » 10/19/07 11:24 AM

Originally posted by Dustin:
We are a fascinating bunch...
Ummm, "fascinating" is not the word that comes to my mind, but I nonetheless applaud Dustin's post.

Clay
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Postby Guest » 10/19/07 11:47 AM

Almost every newspaper in europe is writing about David.
Example, swedens biggest daily magazine:
http://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/article1056135.ab
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Postby Roger M. » 10/19/07 12:09 PM

Perhaps a rest?

This thread contains nothing of substance with regards to this incident other than the FBI confirms that some items were removed from DC's warehouse in support of an investigation. No charges have been announced, no facts have been released.

There's really no reason to expect that this thread WILL suddenly start to contain any more than it already does, which is basically nothing........ nobody here knows anything at all, and likely won't know anything anytime soon.

Just because the press is all over the story doesn't give the story any weight, it means it's a slow press day.
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Postby Guest » 10/19/07 01:06 PM

Why, Blair?

If folks would like to spend their time discussing this matter and/or posting local reports, what pain does that bring you? If you don't care, just don't read it.
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Postby Guest » 10/19/07 01:52 PM

hmmm...sexual misconduct.

i'm keeping my mouth shut!
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Postby Guest » 10/19/07 02:12 PM

I'm watching the press coverage every 12 hours or so to see what sort of story THEY are making of it.

let's see... that reference to a safe and cash makes things sound real seedy.

then there's the allusions to sexual misconduct.

then there's the reference to the memory chip in a camera (as opposed to the tapes or discs used for the data).

All sounds clear as mud to me.

And so far it looks like muckracking IMHO.

I hope DC and crew are safe and this entire event resolves quickly.
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Postby Terry » 10/19/07 02:18 PM

If folks would like to spend their time discussing this matter and/or posting local reports, what pain does that bring you? If you don't care, just don't read it.
What purpose does it serve?

Do you feel like a "person-in-the-know" to be able to post some half-assed speculation?

Anything that doesn't contain facts is speculation and makes the poster look like they are celebrating the fact that David has been accused of something illegal.

DC has done more to promote magic than most of the posers around.

He is still a private citizen and deserves the same respect as any other who has been accused, but not arrested or arraigned.
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Postby Guest » 10/19/07 02:22 PM

Is Mike Nifong anywhere near there? Seems the best way to get publicity is to accuse someone famous of a "dastardly deed".

Hopefully this too will pass!!

adrian
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Postby Guest » 10/19/07 03:33 PM

Our mass media has a way of getting people to imagine bad things about the things they report.
This comment should get an award for understatement of the year.

Randy
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Postby Guest » 10/19/07 03:43 PM

I will form my opinion on evidence, if and when any is presented.

It is not unusual for a famous man to be accused of all sorts of things by mentally ill people looking for attention or venal individuals looking for a quick pay off.

I do not know if this is the case and I will reserve judgement until I know the facts which may be a long time in coming out and will, unfortunately, not get nearly the purchase that the sensationalized accusations and speculations will bring.
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Postby Guest » 10/19/07 04:55 PM

"what appeared to be two million dollars in cash"

How does something "appear to be" two million bucks?

As for the speculation going on here, it's not hurting anyone. It is amusing, though, to see people telling us to stop talking about it. What purpose does that serve?

///ark
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Postby Jon Allen » 10/19/07 05:53 PM

Here's what the BBC is saying.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/7053314.stm

What I find incredible is the exchange rate!
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Postby Guest » 10/19/07 06:37 PM

Any news on this yet from John Stewart at the Daily Show?

Did they really find the Ompahh Loompahs?
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Postby Roger M. » 10/19/07 07:03 PM

Originally posted by DVkid:
Why, Blair?

If folks would like to spend their time discussing this matter and/or posting local reports, what pain does that bring you? If you don't care, just don't read it.
You miss the point of my post entirely.........it's not about what I want.
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Postby Guest » 10/19/07 07:14 PM

Originally posted by David Alexander:
I will form my opinion on evidence, if and when any is presented.

It is not unusual for a famous man to be accused of all sorts of things by mentally ill people looking for attention or venal individuals looking for a quick pay off.
You appear to have prejudged the plaintiff! If you weren't pre-judging anyone, it would have been sufficient to have written: "It is not unusual for a famous man to be accused of all sorts of things."
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Postby Geno Munari » 10/19/07 07:40 PM

There are two sides to every story.

I don't worry so much about the news in the last two days as I worry about the condition or feeling that David must have.

To be under siege by the FBI, that are just doing their job is not like the green room.

Remember their results are not to judge, but to bring forward the facts. They will be fair and protect all parties.

The fact that 2 mill was in his safe probablly had nothing to do with the complaint, yet it was in a safe, and all the evidence there is evidence.
He will get that back.

It all tells me there is a voice calling people for money, for getting even, a competitor or who knows.
It will all come out.

I believe this whole thing could stem from his buying an island and the seller who did not want him to own it. Check it out. There might be some backlash from this.

David has always been a friend and a stand up person.

It seems that no one remembers you for the good you do, but rather the last bad thing that can be mudslung against you.

I read this forum every day and know there are many big names in magic that use pseudonoms (sic) that read but would never post their names including David. I think you get the drift. This a big issue on this forum and many others. The jist being:you just don't know who is replying, posting etc.

Many comments: Who are all these posters? I have never seen some of these controversial posters names with late numbers in any other media. I mean the names here on the Forum. This is another topic.

I will bet 100 to 1 that every main stream magic person reads this forum and many of them post with a fake name.

Haha. Don't you think the pres of the IBM reads? Or SAM or Magic Mag.I think it is called lurkers. When I was in the game it was called fence sitters.

Yet all of them will use the info when it is to their advantage but never give an up or down vote when someone needs support.

Give Davd the respect that you would like and don't be afraid to speak up. Most importantly,don't be predjiduced. :)
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Postby Guest » 10/19/07 08:06 PM

Originally posted by Joe Pike:
Originally posted by David Alexander:
[b] I will form my opinion on evidence, if and when any is presented.

It is not unusual for a famous man to be accused of all sorts of things by mentally ill people looking for attention or venal individuals looking for a quick pay off.
You appear to have prejudged the plaintiff! If you weren't pre-judging anyone, it would have been sufficient to have written: "It is not unusual for a famous man to be accused of all sorts of things." [/b]
Joe,
Perhaps you will take a moment and read the next sentence in my post that modifies the quote you took out of context. With that sort of skill you should be writing for the National Enquirer. I would expect an engineer to be more precise.
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Postby Guest » 10/19/07 08:48 PM

As Dustin has pointed out, I'm not accusing anyone specific in the Copperfield matter, it's just that not every accusation you read in the media has merit...and if you want evidence for that opinion I will offer the following...

Far more goes on with celebrity "stalking" than ever reaches the media. The vast majority of it is handled by law enforcement and private security consultants who are paid lots of money for their assessement of individual cases.

Since I've known a few celebrities and been privy to their problems, reading mail sent to them, hearing phone calls left for them by people who have "problems," I can speak with experience.

One young actor I knew was being stalked by a nut who wanted to hurt him. The "fan" wrote him really sick letters about both loving him and wanting to dismember him.

A producer who was a good friend was being hounded by a nut from Canada. When I heard a recorded phone call that was left for my friend it was clear that the caller was delusional. My advice was to involve the FBI and the RCMP and the problem was resolved quietly.

Beyond my own experience with friends who've received attention from obsessed individuals, anyone who has lived in California for any period of time and reads a newspaper or watches television will be aware of celebrity "stalkers" who think celebrities love them, are married to them, or think they've been cheated by the celebrity. The range of delusions can be wide.

A young actress named Rebecca Shaeffer was murdered by a mentally ill man who was obsessed with her. He'd previously stalked five other female celebrities before fixating on her.

Rebecca Shaeffer's death (and that of several others) prompted the passage of anti-stalking laws in California in 1990 that protects not only celebrities but ordinary citizens as well. Within a short time every other state followed suit.

Satisfactory Gord?
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Postby Guest » 10/19/07 10:03 PM

I should have been more precise. I think it's fair to say:

It is not unusual for a famous man to be accused of all sorts of things.
But that the illustrations you used to expand that observation were value-laden and one might infer it invalidates the plaintiff before we know anything about the matter:

It is not unusual for a famous man to be accused of all sorts of things by mentally ill people looking for attention or venal individuals looking for a quick pay off.
I know you weren't stating anything as fact, but I was observing what inferences might be drawn by a reader. That's all. In light of your comments about not wanting to pre-judge matters, I thought it was an interesting juxtaposition.
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Postby Guest » 10/19/07 11:52 PM

Oy.
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Postby Guest » 10/20/07 12:14 AM

Jay Leno just tore David a new one during his stand up routine tonight. Refered to him as "David Cop a feel" then continued on a role with jokes about him.
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Postby Guest » 10/20/07 01:00 AM

I feel that this whole situation has been handled horribly by the FBI. Since when is it public knowledge what so called evidence is removed during a search? It is absolutely the business of nobody that David Copperfield had a large sum of cash in a safe at the warehouse. This info being "leaked" to the press is reprehensible. All this does is to inform any punks thinking of robbing a casino that there might be easier pickings at the DC warehouse. Such idiots in the future could ruin all that DC has collected over the years in search of the "hidden warehouse treasure". I feel that "leaking" such info to the press is a huge invasion of DC's privacy. It appears to me that the whole raid was set up to get the FBI some attention rather than to get to the truth. The FBI did not seem to be protecting DC by their actions. A quiet search could have been done without alerting the press. The FBI people know fully well that such publicity can harm a person's career and reputation, yet certain points of information have been "leaked" in a supposedly secret investigation. Perhaps a review of FBI procedures is in order.

I do not know DC; but certainly feel that he has been hurt by all of this unnecessary publicity. It's a shame that the public does not have enough to keep them busy without clammering for info on celebrities. The facts in the case of the mysterious female vs. DC will perhaps never be public knowledge. They need not be; but let's modify FBI search methods and policy to protect people until a jury finds someone guilty of something.

Jim
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Postby Matthew Field » 10/20/07 03:52 AM

Originally posted by Jon Allen:
What I find incredible is the exchange rate!
Have a chat with me about this, Jon. I get a pension (Social Security in U.S. terms) in dollars! When it gets converted to pounds -- you can imagine.

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Postby Guest » 10/20/07 05:03 AM

What I find amazing, and no one has mentioned it yet... is that according to the news story... A DOZEN Seattle-based FBI Agents raided the warehouse.

Really? TWELVE? It takes TWELVE agents, all from the Seattle office, to travel to Nevada to raid a small private building in Las Vegas in an investigation for something like a "sexual misconduct" charge?

What kind of armed resistance force were they expecting to find? TWELVE?

Your Federal Taxes at Work.
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Postby Guest » 10/20/07 07:10 AM

Dustin & David

You are both right, I jumped to a conclusion. My sincere apologies.

I have deleted the post.

Gord
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Postby Guest » 10/20/07 07:23 AM

When people look at this sort of activity by the FBI and the media they should remember the name Richard Jewell, the security guard who was supposedly the Olympic Park Bomber. His name was "leaked" to the press which conveniently took pressure off the FBI to find someone to blame for the outrage. Speculation, innuendo, outright character assassination and trial by media ran rampant. While he collected large sums of money from NBC and other media outlets for their moronic and massively biased reporting, it clearly ruined the guy's life and no doubt contributed to his early death recently. I don't think he saw 50.

Copperfield is successful, wealthy, world famous and the perfect target for this sort of thing. Believe little to nothing that you read or hear about this matter because everyone involved in this will be speaking to their own agenda. The media will play their usual game and sensationalize anything they can to boost circulation giving purchase to rumor and speculation, too often reporting nonsense as fact when it is nothing of the sort. The truth may come out or it may not. Given what I've seen over the last few years, I think David is in for a rough road unless he gets his story out in front and very quickly.
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Postby Guest » 10/20/07 08:20 AM

Well said.

As for the money, the only thing I wonder about is whether he'll be in trouble for keeping a large amount of cash like that. Isn't it technically illegal to keep more than about $10,000 in cash outside of a bank? It has something to do with regulation of the national money supply. That said, I can certainly see the desireability of keeping some cash on hand like that.
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Postby Guest » 10/20/07 08:25 AM

Thank you.

As I understand it, deposits of more than $10,000 are reported by the bank to the government. If you take more than $10,000 cash out of the country, it must be reported to the authorities as you leave. The amount may have changed recently, but that's my current understanding. I'm happy to be corrected if someone has more current information.

When I helped Randi with his book on faith healers I had two sources tell me that Peter Popoff has $2 million PLUS a lot of expensive jewelry in his home walk-in safe. Randi reported it, but to my knowledge, nothing happened. Popoff did later declare bankruptcy, but I don't know if the contents of his safe were ever inventoried.
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Postby Pete Biro » 10/20/07 08:57 AM

Re the Leno joke. One of Leno's top, long-time writers IS A MAGICIAN and friend of mine.
Stay tooned.
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Postby Rick Ruhl » 10/20/07 09:41 AM

David use the 'cop-a-feel' joke on himself when he did the ring flight to shoelace back in the 90's.
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Postby Brian Marks » 10/20/07 10:51 AM

Its Leno's job to make fun of what's in the media. Not a big deal.
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Postby Guest » 10/20/07 11:01 AM

My understanding, purely from reading the papers over the years, is that in these kinds of situations, the police/FBI descends on the scene like a plague of locusts. They use a lot of guys because 1) they don't know what they're going to find, 2) some guys are along for the training, and/or 3) everyone's happy to get out from behind their desk. Having descended, they take anything and everything that might be useful: money, papers, and especially computers. It's just the formula. And I don't think it's "leaked" to the media, because I see the inventory recounted so often by spokesmen on the news.

So I don't think Copperfield is receiving particularly unusual treatment here. The fact is, to be accused is not a fun thing in America. But I'd rather be accused here than in any other country.

///ark
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Postby Guest » 10/20/07 12:28 PM

It is illegal to transport more than $10,000 in currency (or travellers checks, etc) into, or out of, the U.S. without filing a form with the U.S. Customs Service. (Similar laws have just passed in the European Union).
But there are no laws saying you have to keep your money in a bank, or limiting the amount of money you can have lying around your house. In the war on drugs, there are some alarming asset-seizure laws. Cash, cars, and other assets are routinely seized, and the eventual dismissal or even acquittal of the criminal charge often does not result in the return of the assets. These laws carry no presumption of innocence. They're ridiculous. And why cash would have been seized in the Copperfield raid -- which is not drug related -- is a real mystery.
I'm also not sure why Randi would have reported Popoff having money in a house safe, unless he believed the money was obtained illegally. There's nothing illegal about keeping huge sums of money in your home.
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Postby Guest » 10/20/07 12:42 PM

I found this at a Las Vegas Newspaper Website (Review Journal):

A Seattle woman told police that Copperfield had raped her in the Bahamas, the Fox News Channel reported Friday.

Seattle police referred calls to the Seattle FBI office, where a spokeswoman declined to comment because of the ongoing investigation.
The magician owns an island resort in the Bahamas called Musha Cay at Copperfield Bay, which he bought last year.

Federal agents on Wednesday searched Copperfield's Las Vegas warehouse on West Russell Road and the theater where he performs at the MGM Grand. Copperfield performed his two scheduled shows that night.

Latimer Bardens
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Postby Guest » 10/20/07 12:57 PM

Originally posted by Jonathan Townsend:
then there's the reference to the memory chip in a camera (as opposed to the tapes or discs used for the data).
I'd say that's most likely tech-idiot speak for a memory card. Just think... film.
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