Expert at the Card Table with Allan Ackerman

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Postby Guest » 07/06/06 11:05 AM

Geno,

Are you going for a complete coverage of the material or sort of a "greatest hits" sort of thing.

At 400+ pages and 300+ illustrations, that's quite a bit of material to cover in video form.
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Postby Jim Maloney_dup1 » 07/06/06 11:10 AM

Originally posted by Chris Aguilar:
Geno,

Are you going for a complete coverage of the material or sort of a "greatest hits" sort of thing.

At 400+ pages and 300+ illustrations, that's quite a bit of material to cover in video form.
Aer you thinking of "Expert Card Technique", by Hugard & Braue? "Expert at the Card Table", by Erdnase, only has about 150 pages.

-Jim
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Postby Guest » 07/06/06 11:49 AM

Originally posted by Jim Maloney:
Aer you thinking of "Expert Card Technique", by Hugard & Braue? "Expert at the Card Table", by Erdnase, only has about 150 pages.

-Jim
Ah, that's what I get for posting without the benefit of my morning cuppa joe. Well that and for other reasons I have ECT strongly on the mind these days.
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Postby Larry Horowitz » 07/06/06 11:31 PM

It is my understanding that the tapes will cover the entire book.

Allan said that he was amazed at what he learned in trying to demo and teach that which he has studied and knew cold for years.
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Postby Guest » 07/06/06 11:53 PM

I have heard a whisper that another top card magician is working on a DVD set covering 'Expert Card Technique'.

Would anyone with further details care to elaborate?

Thanks,

Royce K.
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Postby Guest » 07/07/06 04:13 AM

Originally posted by Royce Kirbow:
I have heard a whisper that another top card magician is working on a DVD set covering 'Expert Card Technique'.

Would anyone with further details care to elaborate?

Thanks,

Royce K.
There is also another set being produced from Magic Makers with Wesley James, so as with Royal Road, we're going to see two sets of Expert at the Card Table.
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Postby Guest » 07/07/06 06:09 AM

Magic is doomed.
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Postby Jim Maloney_dup1 » 07/07/06 06:30 AM

Wes flew out to South Dakota to do the filming a few weeks ago. Simon Lovell is also involved, and I believe appears on camera, though Wes is the one performing and explaning all the stuff. Wes is also going to be heavily involved in the editing process.

From what I understand, the tricks from the book were all filmed before a live audience. He also put a lot of effort into placing the techniques, tricks, etc. in a historical perspective, commenting on where things came from and, in some cases, giving updated or improved handlings. He's also quite honest when he feels certain techniques are inferior and tells you why.

-Jim
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Postby Guest » 07/07/06 06:39 AM

Doooooomed, I tells ya...
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Postby Guest » 07/07/06 11:05 AM

Let's see - I can buy a relatively quick knock off of ECT from Magic Makers to save a few bucks...

-or-

I can get a version from a student of Marlo - one of magic's best cardmen ever ?
...

While it's unfair to comment on a production before it's out - I think this one's a no-brainer.
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Postby Guest » 07/07/06 11:13 AM

Or you could actually read the book, like great card men have done over the last hundred years. The dover edition is like 10 bucks.
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Postby Jim Maloney_dup1 » 07/07/06 11:54 AM

Originally posted by Terrence:
Let's see - I can buy a relatively quick knock off of ECT from Magic Makers to save a few bucks...
Having witnessed some of the several months of preparation, I can assure you that this is not a "quick knock off".

I can get a version from a student of Marlo - one of magic's best cardmen ever ?
I'd consider Wesley James one of magic's best cardmen. He learned from Vernon as well as many other NY greats. So I'm not sure you're statement above is really that relevant.

While I'll agree that Magic Makers doesn't exactly have a great reputation, I think you're mistaken in this case.

-Jim
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Postby Guest » 07/07/06 12:14 PM

Although "a few weeks" seems to have morphed into "several months" - it is the timing that concerns me.

And you're right Jim that I may be mistaken - but for myself it's not a difficult choice.
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Postby Jim Maloney_dup1 » 07/07/06 12:25 PM

Nothing's morphed...the filming was a few weeks ago. The preparation began several months before that.

Given that Magic Makers has already made videos of Royal Road and Modern Coin Magic, I don't think it's much of a surprise that they decided to tackle Expert at the Card Table as well. I wasn't privy to the decision-making process, though, so I can't really comment on the timing of the release. However, if they've put in the effort to make a quality product, and what's eventually released is a done well, does the timing of it really matter?

You're certainly entitled to make your own choice. I just think that you may be dismissing one video in favor of another based on incorrect assumptions.

-Jim
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Postby Geno Munari » 07/07/06 05:11 PM

Wrong Jim
All Rob Stiff can do is copy. He has nothing original. He thinks it is ok and so be it. The real market place will decide what they want to purchase.

I welcome Rob's video.
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Postby Guest » 07/07/06 05:48 PM

Originally posted by Jim Maloney:


While I'll agree that Magic Makers doesn't exactly have a great reputation, I think you're mistaken in this case.

-Jim
Jim:

Do you really believe your own post? Doesn't the copycat behavior, which could negatively affect the financial rewards of Allan's original project investment, bother you?
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Postby Guest » 07/07/06 06:14 PM

I would love to see a 4 camera shoot go to a DVD where the viewer can change the angle! And,I would like to be the guy who edits and formats that DVD. I want no beef with Wes, but let the television guys do television, let the card guys do cards...guys.
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Postby Guest » 07/07/06 10:03 PM

Dooooooomed.
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Postby Guest » 07/08/06 12:14 AM

forget the arguments.

all i got to say is this: Allan Ackerman vs: Who?

... oh wait who cares, Allan Ackerman gets my vote.

im looking forward to it.
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Postby Jim Maloney_dup1 » 07/08/06 06:27 AM

Originally posted by Steve Hook:
Jim:

Do you really believe your own post? Doesn't the copycat behavior, which could negatively affect the financial rewards of Allan's original project investment, bother you?
As Geno said, the market will decide what they want to buy. If he's not bothered, why should I be?

Mainly, I just wanted to come on this thread and correct a few assumptions that were being made about the production of the video (i.e., that it's not something being slapped together by some kid who knows nothing about the material).

Then again, maybe Joe Pike's right.

-Jim
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Postby Guest » 07/08/06 09:30 AM

Originally posted by rage1:
forget the arguments.
all i got to say is this: Allan Ackerman vs: Who?
Stunned by that one.

Let's see... if you are doing a version of the Cannibal cards or an Ambitious Card routine you are likely using something where Wesley has contributed.

As to the project being well timed...

Since youtube and magic video depot and the L&L videos by Tommy Wonder et al, it seems obvious to do video versions of classic texts.

I'm surprised we have yet to hear of a project to bring The Dai Vernon Book of Magic onto DVD.

But as to this Allan versus Wesley thing, that is IMHO simply nasty. It puts two competent and well intended magicians at odds in the minds of the mean spirited.

Best to both Allan and Wesley.

Any Vernon students out there up to taking on the first of the Ganson books?
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Postby NCMarsh » 07/08/06 10:02 AM

Originally posted by rage1:
forget the arguments.

all i got to say is this: Allan Ackerman vs: Who?

... oh wait who cares, Allan Ackerman gets my vote.

im looking forward to it.
Wesley James has been a major force in 20th Century card magic. If you haven't been exposed to Wesley's work (and, as Jonathan points out, the odds are overwhelming that you have been exposed to it but aren't aware of it), you are in for a treat. I highly recommend Wesley's hardcover from Hermetic press. Take a gander at Hermetic Press and choose "Enchantments" from the drop-down menu.

Wesley is a superb card man who is more than qualified to create this project. Unfortunately, he has chosen Magic Makers as his publisher; and that is a disappointment. I would have expected more of him.

Best,

N.
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Postby Guest » 07/08/06 10:20 AM

True, i didnt know who Wesley was.

I just know how good Ackerman is and how bad magic makers were the last time.
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Postby Ryan Matney » 07/08/06 12:51 PM

You could probably benifit by watching both dvds if you were serious about card magic. Wouldn't it be nice to compare instruction and technique? I need all the help with the DPS I can get.

Jonathan, I'd like to see Johnny Thompson do a Stars of Magic dvd. he could probably do the Vernon Book of Magic justice too.
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Postby Guest » 07/08/06 01:38 PM

James may have been active in magic for a long time, but he's not the first (or even ninth or tenth) person who springs to mind when you think of someone who is an expert on EATCT. Same goes for Lovell.

And then, as some have already noted, the notion of piggy-backing on someone else's idea just isn't the gentlemanly thing to do.

Still, one thing's for sure, neither Lovell nor James are likely to make much dough out of this. They're both bound to get stiffed by Stiff.

Joe
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Postby Terry » 07/08/06 06:22 PM

What most have missed and others have stated is that the U.S. of A. is a free market society. The Ackerman fans will buy his DVDs and the James fans will buy his. Some may buy both.

Either way, it seems neither of the gentlemen mentioned have lowered themselves to argue about it on a public message board.

Maybe a lesson there?
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Postby Guest » 07/08/06 06:47 PM

Originally posted by Joe Pike:

Still, one thing's for sure, neither Lovell nor James are likely to make much dough out of this. They're both bound to get stiffed by Stiff.

Joe
A couple of comments here. Regarding Joe's post, this isn't the first project Simon has done with Magic Makers. He wouldn't have gotten involved with another project with Stiff had he had problems the first time around. I've heard that Stiff compensates everyone very well.

Originally posted by Geno Munari:
All Rob Stiff can do is copy. He has nothing original. He thinks it is ok and so be it. The real market place will decide what they want to purchase.

I welcome Rob's video.
However, what Geno says is correct and Geno has the right attitude because Geno has confidence in his product. It's the same with L&L's Royal Road. Louis Falanga didn't have a problem with a side-by-side comparison, although Rob Stiff did. Will he with this new set? I guess we'll have to wait and see.

Stiff should have learned by now that he has a better chance of a fair review in the magazines than he does online.
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Postby Dustin Stinett » 07/08/06 07:14 PM

I cant speak for Joe Turner or any other reviewers, but I would love the opportunity to do a side-by-side review of these projects. I couldnt do it for Royal Road for two reasons. First, Genii was only was provided the L&L edition. Second, I was completely unaware of the MM edition until well after I wrote the review, other wise I would have begged to borrow a copy. If I get the opportunity to review Genos edition of ECT, perhaps Ill be begging for a MM edition.

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Postby Guest » 07/08/06 07:44 PM

Dustin,
We had hoped to do a comparision review for MUM but were not provided a review copy for the Magic Makers version of Royal Road To Card Magic.

As I have noted before, it was a bad choice on Magic Makers part because I found things I liked about BOTH versions. But I'm not about do give them a free quote if they don't have faith in their own products.

I'm very much looking forward to both versions of Expert...
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Postby Guest » 07/08/06 07:47 PM

Originally posted by Ryan Matney:
I'd like to see Johnny Thompson do a Stars of Magic dvd.
Ryan,
You should pick up his Classics Of Magic set from L&L. Much of the material is from Stars (including the ACTUAL handling Vernon used for Triumph, not the one that was published for "the masses").

Johnny Thompson is a national treasure.
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Postby Guest » 08/15/06 03:19 AM

Is there any NEW NEWS on the Ackerman Version of The Expert at the Card Table DVD collection?

tcb
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Postby Guest » 08/15/06 11:03 AM

im not sure if i like the thought of all the classic books coming out on DVD, i think i'll pass on this, unless erdnase does it himself.

i think not revealing the magician who is doing it, would keep with the history of the book.not for me though, cheers, brian.
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Postby Guest » 08/15/06 12:19 PM

i myself look forward to both versions of the dvd.
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Postby Guest » 09/30/06 12:57 AM

Watch the master in action, have fun:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d9OsxP2Whic
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Postby Guest » 09/30/06 09:34 AM

Was it just me, or did those cards really change from blue to red, and back to blue again?

T.
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Postby Guest » 09/30/06 12:32 PM

Indeed, around 1:10 the cards are red. They probably did two takes of the routine with different coloured cards and cut the clip together from both sources?!
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Postby Pete Biro » 09/30/06 12:57 PM

That's as good as you will EVER see the 10 card poker deal.
Stay tooned.
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Postby Guest » 09/30/06 04:34 PM

Anyone know where that Ackerman footage is from?
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Postby Guest » 09/30/06 06:46 PM

I have to consider myself lucky to see both men lecture and spend a little time with them. I'll tell you that both Wesley and Allan have a great love for magic and an incredible amount of skill to go with it.
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Postby Guest » 10/01/06 03:38 AM

Originally posted by Bobby Plaut:
Anyone know where that Ackerman footage is from?
I think I remember seeing it in a multi-part German TV-Series called something like "Magic Las Vegas". There were a lot of acts (both stage and close-up) and some interviews. I remember seeing Ackerman doing a version of "Multiplex Reset" and Daryl doing the Jumping Knot and a Colour Changing Knive routine among other things. Somewhere I have it all on tape.

Denis
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