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Postby Guest » 03/11/03 09:37 PM

We just heard the damdest thing...

Seems Todd Lassen was banned from The Magic Cafe...without so much as an email telling him why...

We heard this from Todd himself.

Seems there was a discussion between him, Jim Riser and Thomas Wayne...

After perusing the topic in question, it seems that Todd is taking a lot of hits from a certain someone on the Magic Cafe site, but is unable to defend himself against those remarks...

As I say, the real pisser here is that according to Todd he was never even given an explanation why he was banned....

very queer...

"Rosie"
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Postby Richard Kaufman » 03/11/03 10:19 PM

Rosie, please tell the amazing Mr. Lassen that he would be quite welcome here.
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Postby Guest » 03/11/03 10:26 PM

will do!
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Postby Bob Farmer » 03/16/03 03:06 PM

The Magic Cafe should be shut down for health reasons.

One of their sterling members suggested that no one should buy my marketed effect, "The Bammo Card Walloper" because the trick could easily be made at home (after, I presume, stealing a copy of the instructions).

Since the member had thoughtfully posted a picture of himself, I replied that, judging from his jacket, card tricks weren't the only thing he preferred homemade.

The Magic Cafe advised me they were deleting my post because it was against the rules to insult another member.

Since The Magic Cafe finds it acceptable for members to promote theft, but unacceptable to criticize such promotion, I asked them to delete my membership.

They obviously have no sense of magical ethics.
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Postby Guest » 03/16/03 11:52 PM

Originally posted by Rosie:
We just heard the damdest thing...

Seems Todd Lassen was banned from The Magic Cafe...without so much as an email telling him why...

We heard this from Todd himself.

Seems there was a discussion between him, Jim Riser and Thomas Wayne...

[...]
Rosie,

Todd Lassen, Jim Riser and I did indeed have a dispute on the MagicCafe board; because we are all men of strong opinions it became somewhat heated. As a result of tempers flaring from all three corners we each overstepped the bounds of Cafe forum rules; we all had our posts heavily edited and we were all warned to knock it off.

In each case I was formally notified and I have just been informed that all other parties involved (INCLUDING Todd Lassen) were formally notified as well.

After a series of exchanges, Todd Lassen posted a picture of himself wearing a t-shirt bearing a message containing thinly disguised profanity - aimed at insulting me. A large number of complaints were registered over THAT behavior, staff removed the picture and Todd was given his "final" warning regarding behavior on the forum. Failing to take that warning seriously, Todd continued to ignore the posted rules and - according to Jim Riser – was subsequently banned.

In spite of Rosie's statement to the contrary, Mr. Lassen has not been "taking a lot of hits from a certain someone" (me). I HAVE posted information about the Johnson Coin Products Company and have promoted them based on my study of their quality and stellar service. Neither I, nor anyone else (to my knowledge) has posted anything derogatory about Todd Lassen or his products, but if he feels he needs to "defend" himself, he should have thought about that BEFORE acting in such a manner as to get banned from the forum. For this he has no one to blame but himself.

Based on my experience with the MagicCafe and other forums (including this one) I would say it is VERY unlikely (read IMPOSSIBLE) that Todd was banned without notice or reason, Rosie, though that does give him a supposed excuse to not admit WHY he was banned. The simple truth is he couldn't follow the rules and he didn't think anyone would do anything about it. Now, in spite of your fondness for Todd, and in spite of your dislike for me, don't you agree that the moderators of that forum (or any forum) have the right to ask a member to follow the rules and, failing that, to discipline them if they refuse?

What amazes me is that you would actually BELIEVE they would ban him without notice. I mean, come on… I've heard some tall tales before, but that one is just too incredible to believe, don't you think?

Regards,
Thomas Wayne
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Postby Dave Egleston » 03/17/03 12:11 AM

Yeah Mr Wayne -

It was a "heated' discussion - but it was a great debate for those of us who are less technical - It made me look up several references pertaining to CNC machines and milling techniques

I missed the picture

I just hope all three of you guys don't stop participating in these forums

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Postby Guest » 03/17/03 12:32 AM

Originally posted by Richard Kaufman:
Rosie, please tell the amazing Mr. Lassen that he would be quite welcome here.
Richard,

Todd is a member of the Genii Forum (#461, August 27, 2001) and has posted a couple of times in the past.

Regards,
Thomas Wayne
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Postby Guest » 03/17/03 12:42 AM

Originally posted by Dave Egleston:
[...]
I missed the picture
[...]
Dave,

Email me, I'll send you a copy.

TW
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Postby Todd Lassen » 03/17/03 09:20 AM

Hahaha. Thanks for the invite Richard. I appreciate that. I hadn't wished however to carry any of this bit with Wayne over to your board. I will not choose to carry on with Mr. Wayne any further. I would like to state here that..believe it or not..I was not notified when I was banned from magic cafe. Mr. Wayne seems to be privy to more imformation than I...be it good or bad. I did receive quite a slap from Mr. Guinn for posting a picture of myself that some believed was a "thinly veiled" something. I apologized to Mr. Guinn and my further posts were edited until they were meaningless. Shortly after I was banned without notification. A few weeks after I discovered I was banned..and no mention to me..I sent Mr. Brooks an email. I asked that I only be allowed to read the posts without interacting. I know Mr. Brooks personally and have respect for him, but alas, no response. I am aware all moderators have to have their reasons and methods..especially when 2 loose cannons are using their forums for a soapbox. Haha. All in all, I would say..it was worth the price I had to pay. I am finished arguing with Mr. Wayne. I find it to be quite redundant..for many reasons. Any person who should like to believe Mr. Wayne or take his advice with regards to me or my products..that is perfectly fine with me. I encourage you to do so. I am confident of the many great relationships I have established in the magic community and trust that intuition will suffice to decipher wheat from chaff. Enough said.
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Postby Richard Kaufman » 03/17/03 09:29 AM

Thanks for the note, Todd. I can certainly vouch for your products because, even though I don't own any, some of my friends do. I have watched them fry expert close-up magicians who had no idea that gimmicks were being used. I've also had the opportunity to inspect the gimmicked coins and am in awe of your workmanship--as were my friends who purchased the items.
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Postby Jim Riser » 03/17/03 09:46 AM

As someone who can and does make gaffed coins (only to go with other apparatus that I manufacture), I can state that IMHO Todd's coin work is the best - bar none. I have seen them all and Todd's attention to detail is superb. There are many factors that most people never even consider involved in manufacturing quality coins. Todd goes the extra mile and does it right. For those wanting the best, there really is no other option. :D
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Postby Guest » 03/17/03 12:20 PM

Originally posted by Todd Lassen:
[...]I would like to state here that..believe it or not..I was not notified when I was banned from magic cafe. Mr. Wayne seems to be privy to more imformation than I...
Actually, my initial information came from your buddy Jim Riser - I assumed he got that information from you - and HE openly posted that information on the MagicCafe forum. Subsequent inquiry, following Rosie's post above, led me to the fact that you WERE warned and you WERE notified. Why you would claim to have not been notified is beyond my understanding, but surely it is a very hard claim to swallow for anyone who understands how these boards operate.

[...] I sent Mr. Brooks an email. I asked that I only be allowed to read the posts without interacting. I know Mr. Brooks personally and have respect for him, but alas, no response [...]
I'm pretty sure that ANYONE, regardless of their status, can read the Cafe posts (or those on this board, for that matter) without interacting. Being "banned" only prohibits you from POSTING. Of course, you may not be able to read the "secret sessions" forum - I don't know - which are generally reserved for members "in good standing" (or whatever), but that is a very small percentage of the overall content of the board.

Regards,
Thomas Wayne
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Postby Steve Bryant » 03/17/03 12:29 PM

I rarely do coin tricks, but own and treasure two gaffed sets made by Todd Lassen. These are miracle items. The workmanship is outstanding. Audiences have no clue.
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Postby Guest » 03/17/03 02:28 PM

Audiences have no clue
I know what you mean Steve ... Whenever I use a Johnson brand expanded shell people say "Hey dude, that's so bogus! Your using a hollowed out coin." However when using the Todd Lassen product, they say "Holy crap, thats a miracle." and throw copious amounts of cash at my feet. Thank you Todd. I don't know how we ever got along without you.
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Postby Jim Riser » 03/17/03 02:56 PM

It is very possible that Todd can not even read the posts on the Magic Cafe forum. Even though he was banned and their software set to dis-allow his signing in, his computer might well retain a cookie from their forum. If Todd could find the correct cookie and remove it, then he should be able to read; but not post. My guess is that their forum sign in software is still reading a cookie (or something similar) and immediately shutting him out.
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Postby Chris Aguilar » 03/17/03 03:09 PM

Good point about the cookie Jim.

However, as a tech support guy for the software they use (phpBB) I will say it's possible that they have him banned by IP.

If so, no amount of changing his cookie is going to let him browse or post to the board at all.

If I were Todd, I would delete the phpBB cookie just to try it, but I can't guarantee it will help.

He could get in using an anonymous proxy even if banned, but that's another story. :)
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Postby Ryan Matney » 03/17/03 03:47 PM

erdnase2000 posted:
Whenever I use a Johnson brand expanded shell people say "Hey dude, that's so bogus! Your using a hollowed out coin."
Wow, have you really had laymen say that to you? What routines were you doing at the time?
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Postby cwilcox » 03/17/03 04:19 PM

Originally posted by Ryan Matney:
erdnase2000 posted:
Whenever I use a Johnson brand expanded shell people say "Hey dude, that's so bogus! Your using a hollowed out coin."
Wow, have you really had laymen say that to you? What routines were you doing at the time?
Pretty sure that was sarcasm.

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Postby Ryan Matney » 03/17/03 04:24 PM

I hope so :D
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Postby Guest » 03/17/03 09:28 PM

Originally posted by Chris Wilcox:
Originally posted by Ryan Matney:
[b]erdnase2000 posted:
Whenever I use a Johnson brand expanded shell people say "Hey dude, that's so bogus! Your using a hollowed out coin."
Wow, have you really had laymen say that to you? What routines were you doing at the time?
Pretty sure that was sarcasm.

CW[/b]
Yeah..but he keeps it in his special hollowed out thumb!
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Postby Terry » 03/18/03 05:55 AM

However, as a tech support guy for the software they use (phpBB) I will say it's possible that they have him banned by IP.
Everyone excuse me for sidelining this discussion for a moment.

Wert, with a cable modem, I was told one has a static IP, but with dial up's the IP changes every time. True/False/Partially Inaccurate?
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Postby Guest » 03/18/03 06:57 AM

With a cable modem, you do only have one IP, unless you manually go and aquire a new one. I think it might have something to do with the fact that a cable modem is always "connected", even when the computer is off.
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Postby Guest » 03/18/03 06:58 AM

A static IP is usually something you pay extra for, if it's even available. If you're on cable or DSL, you may have a "practically" static IP if your computer is always on, but disconnecting or restarting the computer will get you a new one. I generally have the same IP for weeks at a time, but that's not a real static IP.

I vote for the cookie.

Best,

Geoff
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Postby Guest » 03/18/03 07:16 AM

I bow to ur expertise!!
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Postby Chris Aguilar » 03/18/03 04:22 PM

Originally posted by Geoff Latta:
[QB]A static IP is usually something you pay extra for, if it's even available. If you're on cable or DSL, you may have a "practically" static IP if your computer is always on, but disconnecting or restarting the computer will get you a new one.
Generally, one can also block a range of IP's if one so desires from phpBB. The cafe is using a very ancient version of phpBB (which is slow as molasses), but in the most recent revs, one can ban by username, ip address, hostname, or e-mail address (and wildcards can be used to disallow all registrations with a "yahoo" or "hotmail" address.)

Actually, I recall a friend or mine was actually banned there a while back. My memory could be wrong, but I do believe that deleting the cookie didn't help him at all in terms of logging in (or setting up a new account), but he was able to browse the forums. Any attempt to login as the banned username on his part simply generated a cookie that wouldn't allow browsing. The ban eventually wore off and he was able to post again.

I don't know if Steve Brooks is still doing temporary bans, but I do know that the version of phpBB he is using has that capability.
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Postby Steve Hook » 03/19/03 08:58 AM

Another vote for "He Whose Credibility Is Already Highly Established", Mr. Todd Lassen.

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Postby Todd Lassen » 03/19/03 10:47 AM

Well, I promised...but...I wonder if it is possible to ever have the last word with Mr. Wayne. I must test...just this once.

Since my pea brain can't figure how to work the quote thingy....
Thomas Wayne wrote:


"Subsequent inquiry, following Rosie's post above, led me to the fact that you WERE warned and you WERE notified."

WRONG! I received an email from Guinn stating it was an oversight. I can even prove it. Haha. The "fact" that you were "led" to was WRONG.

"Being "banned" only prohibits you from POSTING."

WRONG AGAIN! WRONG, WRONG, WRONG AGAIN Mr. Wayne...AND I can prove it.

That is all..promise.
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Postby Richard Kaufman » 03/19/03 11:10 AM

Mr. Lassen and Mr. Wayne:
You are both welcome here, but I do not wish to see any more posts regarding what goes on regarding being banned from the Magic Cafe.
And I do not wish to see whatever arguement you had running over there continued here.
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Postby Guest » 03/19/03 01:09 PM

Originally posted by Richard Kaufman:
Mr. Lassen and Mr. Wayne:
You are both welcome here, but I do not wish to see any more posts regarding what goes on regarding being banned from the Magic Cafe.
And I do not wish to see whatever arguement you had running over there continued here.
No problem Richard; I was done talking about that mess a couple of days ago.

Regards,
Thomas Wayne
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Postby Dustin Stinett » 03/19/03 02:48 PM

Originally posted by Geoff Latta:
I vote for the cookie.
Me too - especially vanilla wafers!
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Postby Guest » 03/19/03 05:09 PM

Originally posted by Richard Kaufman:
....
And I do not wish to see whatever arguement you had running over there continued here.
....
While I agree with Richard, it really is too bad that the Magic Cafe is so tightly controlled. To me (and, I would guess, to many of us) the technical details they argued about, background on machining, etc., was completely fascinating. It also breathed some extra life into the profiles of these men for those who haven't met them personally.

I personally would have liked to see it go on and on. (Without anyone involved getting their knickers deeply twisted, of course.) Of everything I've read so far on the Magic Cafe, this was the most interesting; a deeply detailed argument concerning technical, anecdotal and historical matters by men who really know what they're talking about. That it was a little abrasive? Whatever. I've never been in an argument that was worth repeating that wasn't.

Oh well...FWIW.

Best,

Geoff
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Postby Guest » 03/19/03 05:10 PM

make mine chocolate chip please
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Postby David Acer » 03/19/03 09:14 PM

mmm... cookies at the caf.
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Postby Bill Mullins » 03/19/03 09:38 PM

Vanilla wafers with peanut butter are the best cookies. Period.
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Postby Danny Archer » 03/25/03 01:55 PM

Both Thomas Wayne and Todd Lassen will be dealers at the upcoming LVMI/Coinvention conventions in September (lvmi.net for dates and info) ...

best two out of three falls?
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Postby Guest » 03/25/03 03:28 PM

Right now, I don't own any of Todd's coins, but I have heard great things about them. I ordered Bob Kohler's "Ultimate 3 Fly" a few weeks ago and I am sure I will not be disappointed with neither the effect or the craftsmanship.
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Postby Guest » 03/25/03 06:03 PM

I think the people who run the magic cafe forums are complete control freaks who can't deal with any opposing opinions other than their own. I, too, was banned for speaking my mind. I rarely go back unless I am researching something. Brooks and Guinn seem to think of the cafe as a "home" which seems to contradict what the idea the internet means(a place to voice one's opinion and have true feedback, not be censored). And this is one reason I represent myself anonymously; I still believe the message is more important than the messenger. Here's a quote from the self-rightous Steve Brooks, in fact, I used this for my signature in the last days before I was banned:
"Is there censorship here? Of course there is."
? Steve Brooks, owner and manager of the MagicCafe.com internet forum.
This is not what I believe in, quite the opposite. Yet this will probably be censored, too, along with several of my other posts here. Fight censorship! Accept and allow differing opinions, it builds character!
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Postby Richard Kaufman » 03/25/03 06:58 PM

Mr.e, the only thing I needed to edit was your flatulent description of The Magic Cafe. But it really doesn't serve any purpose for people who used to chat on the Magic Cafe to come over to the Genii Forum and call the Magic Cafe dirty names. We don't care! :)
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Postby Guest » 03/25/03 11:21 PM

Originally posted by mr.e:
I think the people who run the magic cafe forums are complete control freaks who can't deal with any opposing opinions other than their own. I, too, was banned for speaking my mind. [...]
That's funny, I ALWAYS speak my mind over there; I'm pretty sure just about everyone else does too. I've had many, MANY posts edited or downright deleted and I've received more than my share of warnings. Notably, one of the biggest squabbles I've ever had was with none other than Scott Guinn, whom I believe is the head of staff; suffice it to say I've tread right up to the line of unacceptable behavior many times.

Never been banned, though. I think it takes a lot more than just "speaking your mind" to get banned from there. Just my opinion, of course.

Regards,
Thomas Wayne
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Postby Guest » 03/25/03 11:41 PM

Regarding the Cafe...

The Magic Cafe "monitors" pretty much destroyed the place. Initially, there was a lot of very good discussion by some very competent people, but censorship sailed like a bludgeon, and the "Duh" factor prevailed. Most everybody cool left, or rarely posts. Much has been archived though...

Brooks and Guinn deserve themselves.

As far as circumventing IP bans, which is what I think what the Cafe is doing - seeing as it's happened several times to me - use Proxies (as enigmatically inferred by "wert").

Check out http://www.proxys4all.com/
Most educational for those who are interested in maintaining their anonymity whilst in Cyberspace.

Ranktle
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