Ebay...Paul Fox and Busby Again?

Discuss the latest news and rumors in the magic world.

Postby Glenn Farrington » 09/22/04 11:32 AM

I just got this e-mail from Ebay canceling an auction I was bidding on:

Dear Glenn Farrington,

The following listing:

2270419419 -Paul Fox's Miracle Gimmick

was removed by eBay because a Verified Right Owner (VeRO) Program participant notified eBay that the listing potentially infringes its copyright. We strongly urge you not to complete this transaction.

You can get more information on the VeRO Program at:

http://pages.ebay.com/help/confidence/p ... ro-ov.html

Thank you for your cooperation and understanding in this issue.

Regards,

Customer Support (Trust and Safety Department)
eBay Inc

>>>>>>>>>>

So it begins again...
Comedy's Easy...Dying Sucks.
User avatar
Glenn Farrington
 
Posts: 630
Joined: 01/24/08 01:00 PM
Location: Los Angeles

Postby Robert Allen » 09/22/04 12:09 PM

So Glenn, is this random, or are you known to have personally pissed Busby off in the past?

I'd suggest that whoever has refernces (i.e. cast numbers, etc.) from the last time this was settled on Ebay post them here for people to forward to ebay if they are harassed like this.

The person who's doing this is one seriously disturbed individual. Sigh.

[later]

It occured to me that I have sales literature from Jeff Busby Magic, Inc. from the 1990's when he was still in Oakland, CA. It shows that the Paul Fox Miracle Gimmick was sold for $10 + shipping (which included a book). If he was offering it for commercial sale I don't see how there's any way he can claim control of subsequent resales.
Robert Allen
 
Posts: 616
Joined: 03/18/08 11:53 AM

Postby Guest » 09/22/04 01:09 PM

Hey Glenn,

I'm pretty sure that's my listing. Just got the notice from ebay that it was removed. I was going to post here to see if anyone else was having this problem with Busby again. If you still want it, drop me a pm.

Mark
Guest
 

Postby Glenn Farrington » 09/22/04 03:41 PM

Hey Mark,

I just sent you a pm.

Glenn
Comedy's Easy...Dying Sucks.
User avatar
Glenn Farrington
 
Posts: 630
Joined: 01/24/08 01:00 PM
Location: Los Angeles

Postby Frank Starsinic » 09/22/04 04:12 PM

I bought one of those a couple years ago.
Do I have to give it back?
Frank Starsinic
 
Posts: 331
Joined: 01/23/08 01:00 PM
Location: Davis,CA

Postby Guest » 09/22/04 04:17 PM

I have a friend from high school (it was a long time ago) named Ralph Busby who owns a fox. Does he have to change his name AND sell his pet? Is he in danger of being sued?

Steve Thomas
Guest
 

Postby Robert Allen » 09/22/04 04:30 PM

The short answer is, if his name were Jesus Ramiriz Kowalski Smith he would be in danger of being threatened by the person being discussed here :) .
Robert Allen
 
Posts: 616
Joined: 03/18/08 11:53 AM

Postby Robert Allen » 09/22/04 04:39 PM

Frank, heh heh. Clearly you didn't read the EULA in the micro-dot on the instructions for the gimmick when you bought it, which states that you're only renting it, and it remains the property of the seller and must be surrendered upon demand (sort of how the Gov't views the US passport).

LOL, last night I re-read the ad copy from Busby on this trick: "no false shuffling! No sleight of hand! No dials to set or twist! No memory system or mathematical formula! The gimmick does everything but whisper the names of the mentally chosen cards in your ear!" Yeah, no wires, threads, magnets, or nuclear reactors used either. Sheesh. This is how I learned to despise that guy.
Robert Allen
 
Posts: 616
Joined: 03/18/08 11:53 AM

Postby Michael Edwards » 09/22/04 05:28 PM

It's interesting that the eBay auction on the Owen Magic Supreme Bountiful Bowl which is titled "Paul Fox Candy Bowl Owens" hasn't been pulled yet.

Michael Edwards
Michael Edwards
 
Posts: 516
Joined: 01/17/08 01:00 PM
Location: Washington, DC

Postby Pete Biro » 09/22/04 05:31 PM

Michael: Is the "bountiful bowl" a ripoff of the Fox Candy Bowl? (Also do you have a salt gimmick? Fox of course).
Stay tooned.
User avatar
Pete Biro
 
Posts: 7124
Joined: 01/17/08 01:00 PM
Location: Hollyweird

Postby Jim Riser » 09/22/04 06:42 PM

Pete;
I have images of both the Paul Fox large and small salt gimmick. If you need them, I'll "go looking".
Jim
Jim Riser
 
Posts: 986
Joined: 01/17/08 01:00 PM
Location: Tucson, AZ

Postby Michael Edwards » 09/22/04 06:50 PM

Pete:

While Paul Fox developed his Candy Bowl in the 1930's, the fundamental idea certainly goes back before Roterberg and the Bran Vase....and probably to Ponsin in the early 1850s.

Michael
Michael Edwards
 
Posts: 516
Joined: 01/17/08 01:00 PM
Location: Washington, DC

Postby Tabman » 09/22/04 07:28 PM

Michael, don't forget that Jeff Busby published his own Jeff Busby Enterprises copyrighted reprint of Ponsin On Conjuring during the latter part of the 20th century.
-=tabman
User avatar
Tabman
 
Posts: 917
Joined: 03/17/09 02:25 PM
Location: TC and KOZ at the Funny Bone

Postby Michael Edwards » 09/23/04 02:49 AM

I see that the eBay Candy Bowl/Bountiful Bowl auction title and description now have been revised.
Michael Edwards
 
Posts: 516
Joined: 01/17/08 01:00 PM
Location: Washington, DC

Postby Brad Henderson » 09/23/04 03:30 PM

According to ebay:

Unfortunately, eBay cannot require the rights owner to provide you with the exact reason of the request to remove your listing. However, we do require the owner to provide an email address you can use for direct contact. This address should be included in the email we sent to you notifying you your listing had been removed.

So you should have an email of the person accusing you of violating their rights. I'm sure some of us on here can recognize if it is one of the Bee's.

There is a link on this page if you think the item was removed in error. Perhaps it is worth reporting it.

Ebay VERO page

Keep the bee in his hive!
Brad Henderson
 
Posts: 2396
Joined: 01/17/08 01:00 PM
Location: austin, tx

Postby Bill Mullins » 09/23/04 08:49 PM

Is anyone in a position to file a restraint of trade lawsuit against JB? He may not have assets to pursue, but perhaps an injunction to make him stop is in order?
Bill Mullins
 
Posts: 2882
Joined: 01/17/08 01:00 PM
Location: Huntsville, AL

Postby Richard Kaufman » 09/24/04 06:29 AM

Can you think of anyone who has caused misery to so many for so little reason? I continue to seek cheerful news of his demise.
Subscribe today to Genii Magazine
User avatar
Richard Kaufman
 
Posts: 20469
Joined: 07/18/01 12:00 PM
Location: Washington DC

Postby Robert Allen » 09/24/04 10:44 AM

I prefer to think of it as that he's REALLY ertswhile in his expressed desires :) And (as an owner of some Busby-mfgr'd apparatus I might want to sell) I can't say that I disagree with him.

There are too few decent people in the world that scum should be easily suffered.
Robert Allen
 
Posts: 616
Joined: 03/18/08 11:53 AM

Postby Pete Biro » 09/24/04 11:01 AM

You AGREE with Busby?

A guy that never paid for the Paul Fox material. He screwed Danny Dew out of the hardware, then tries to stop ANYONE from making cups that are SIMILAR to the Paul Fox design?

A guy that says you can't sell an item, a used item, cuz he doesn't want you to? When, in fact, he doesn't even have any of them to sell himself.

Example of this. I have a used Chevy to sell on ebay. GM stops me from selling it because they own the name Chevy.

IMPOSSIBLE

That's why I really don't understand ebay letting this happen.
Stay tooned.
User avatar
Pete Biro
 
Posts: 7124
Joined: 01/17/08 01:00 PM
Location: Hollyweird

Postby Disparity1 » 09/24/04 11:10 AM

Originally posted by Pete Biro:
You AGREE with Busby?

Um, I think Mr. Allen was saying that he agrees with Mr. Kaufman.
Disparity1
 
Posts: 58
Joined: 03/20/08 04:45 PM

Postby Robert Allen » 09/24/04 11:13 AM

No, I don't agree with Busby, I said I don't disagree with Richard :) .

As for ebay, they are screwed up. Sadly they are also the only game in town due to their mindshare. I go through bouts of intense hatred of them everytime they change their user interface and everytime I have to re-log-in because they tossed their cookies. Given their demonstrated stupidity in customer service and software development, I have simply written off this latest incidence of Busbyism to poor record keeping on their part, and/or to turnover in whatever department administrates Ebay 'justice'.

Hmm, I should have been more clear in my earlier post that "he" referred to the person who posted the previous message in the thread, ie. Richard Kaufman, not the "he" under discussion, Jeff Buzz Bee. :rolleyes:
Robert Allen
 
Posts: 616
Joined: 03/18/08 11:53 AM

Postby Pete Biro » 09/24/04 11:14 AM

OK :o
Stay tooned.
User avatar
Pete Biro
 
Posts: 7124
Joined: 01/17/08 01:00 PM
Location: Hollyweird

Postby David Alexander » 09/24/04 11:24 AM

One of the downsides of the Internet is the free play area offered to the bullies and mentally ill of the world. I've had my own go-rounds with Busby and found he is more interested in his idea of "winning" than in doing business...making a living...living in the real world.

For perhaps the most egregious example of Internet crazies, google "Gordon Roy Parker" and follow some of the thread. This guy took over alt.hypnosis some years ago and has inflicted himself on any number of open forums. Fortunately, we have Richard, Dusting, and Jon at the gate to protect us from the crazies of the world, for which I express my thanks for a usually thankless job.
David Alexander
 
Posts: 1550
Joined: 01/17/08 01:00 PM
Location: Aurora IL

Postby Jeffrey Cowan » 09/24/04 01:57 PM

I seem to recall that a year or two ago Ebay took action and eliminated Busby's ability to cancel auctions on such grounds. I also think that someone on this board (Bob Farmer?) had discussed the issue with one of Ebay's in-house lawyers before Ebay acted against Busby.

Perhaps it is time for those with a "power rolodex" to again contact Ebay's legal department and let the appropriate person(s) know that Mr. Busby is up to his old tricks . . .
-- Jeffrey Cowan
www.cowan-law.com
Jeffrey Cowan
 
Posts: 185
Joined: 01/17/08 01:00 PM
Location: Santa Monica, CA

Postby magicam » 09/24/04 02:10 PM

Understandably, I think, Ebay probably does not want to be in the business of mediating ownership disputes or arriving at legal conclusions re same. It is safer to remove an auction than anything else, so they take the path of least resistance. Abuse of the sort alleged against Jeff Busby is the price sellers have to pay, it seems.

But I do recall the same sort of thing Jeffrey Cowan mentions, and wonder what Ebay would do if it were proven to Ebay that Busby had no right to block such sales. In addition, has the Chevy analogy or something like it mentioned by Pete been raised with Ebay? I agree: how can anyone block the sale of a used good, absent a prior contract the buyer signed prohibiting the resale of the item in question (a pretty rare thing, I would think and probably only used in the trade secret arena)?
User avatar
magicam
 
Posts: 794
Joined: 01/28/09 09:40 PM

Postby Robert Allen » 09/24/04 03:50 PM

I have been waiting for someone party to last years battle to speak up with some contact info or case numbers or something, but so far no one has volunteered any info.

Magicam, I think I understand what you mean, but what Busby is doing is no different than if one of the Ford family told Ebay to pull all Mustang sales from the ebay auto sales. Ebay is plenty big and has lots of money, and has many attorneys on tap (they need them, given how they ride roughshod over their customers). There's absolutely no excuse for this kind of BS, particularly since it wasn't that long ago that Ebay was apparently threatening Busby with litigation for false claims such as this.

I too anxiously look forward to the day that Busby shuffles this mortal coil. He's like one of those neighborhood dogs that comes around and defecates on your lawn, but only when you're not around. And that is aside from the various and sundry scams he ran on his paying customers in years past.
Robert Allen
 
Posts: 616
Joined: 03/18/08 11:53 AM

Postby magicam » 09/24/04 04:20 PM

Robert, if you're correct about Ebay's army of lawyers (and you probably are), and if Ebay has had past run-ins with Busby, then it is surprising that Ebay would not put a stop to it.

A friendly admonition to all those who express a death wish for Jeff Busby: is that really necessary or justified? So far as we know, he's not a serial killer, just a common thief and thorn in the side, if these allegations are true. Since when did we execute thieves?
User avatar
magicam
 
Posts: 794
Joined: 01/28/09 09:40 PM

Postby Jonathan Townsend » 09/24/04 04:45 PM

If you know ebaY is going to pull a Paul Fox related auction, then what specifically is your purpose in posting one?

If you want to taunt Jeff Busby, post your items on this BBS and let Richard and his staff handle any busbycussions.
Mundus vult decipi
Jonathan Townsend
 
Posts: 6605
Joined: 01/17/08 01:00 PM
Location: Westchester, NY

Postby Robert Allen » 09/24/04 05:08 PM

Magicam, I believe this one point is worth making crystal clear:

If you go read Richard Kaufmans post, I do not read that as wishing anyone ill. Nor, specifically, does my post. I'm just saying that when natural illness befalls whoever it is that's trying to screw people who are trying to legally sell their own posessions on ebay, *I* won't be shedding any crocodile tears.

Although I'm not a particularly religious man, I was brought up to believe that going out of your way to make life difficult for someone, let alone a total stranger, and for no good reason, is decidedly "un christian", and therefore, to be avoided. Treat others as you would have them treat you, etc.

"Since when did we execute thieves?" Well, I hear they used to cut their hands off, but unfortunately that's less popular in civilized countries. And strictly speaking this may not be theft, but rather some form of fraud.

Jonathan, this latest problem is 'out of the blue.' False accusations of copyright violation were shown to be lies some time in the past year and since that time have not been a problem to people selling on ebay. As for why not sell here; certain items such as the PF cups made by Busby are worth a pretty penny due to their (chuckle) rarity, and so it's natural to want to sell them at auction on ebay. Perhaps whoever is doing this harassement was in the nut house for an interval, or on heavy medication, and have gotten out on parole or stopped taking their meds, causing the recurrance of the problem.
Robert Allen
 
Posts: 616
Joined: 03/18/08 11:53 AM

Postby magicam » 09/24/04 05:36 PM

Ah hell, Ive been in a feisty mood the past few days so why not

Robert Allen wrote:
If you go read Richard Kaufmans post, I do not read that as wishing anyone ill. Nor, specifically, does my post. I'm just saying that when natural illness befalls whoever it is that's trying to screw people who are trying to legally sell their own posessions on ebay, *I* won't be shedding any crocodile tears.

Well youre right on one thing, Robert. When RK wrote I continue to seek cheerful news of his demise, he literally isnt wishing that Busby falls ill just expressing joy at the prospect of his death. And when you write I too anxiously look forward to the day that Busby shuffles this mortal coil, that reads like youre looking forward to the day he dies. Perhaps that not what you really meant, but how else could anybody reasonably read it?

I thought the gist of my point was clear enough, but in the interest of avoiding a further parsing of words, Ill restate it: concerning people whose crimes arent heinous, I dont feel that having a death wish for them or expressing joy over their deaths however and whenever they occur - is really necessary or justified.

Some people may disagree with this view, so Ill hasten to add that its just my opinion and try and leave it at that.
User avatar
magicam
 
Posts: 794
Joined: 01/28/09 09:40 PM

Postby Pete Biro » 09/24/04 05:51 PM

I find it difficult to forgive someone who blatantly fouls those he deals with. If he would stop, but he keeps it up and up and up, one might let it go. But he chooses to not let it go.
Stay tooned.
User avatar
Pete Biro
 
Posts: 7124
Joined: 01/17/08 01:00 PM
Location: Hollyweird

Postby Richard Kaufman » 09/24/04 06:57 PM

I'm working on a laptop in China, but even from here I can take great pleasure not only in deleting the latest post from [censored] (masquerading as Mr.Kindness), but also in razzing Jeff Busby.
Since Mr. Busby constantly rants about my wishing his death in the nutty e-mails he spams out to people, I am only giving him the pleasure of agreeing with his paranoid delusions.
Subscribe today to Genii Magazine
User avatar
Richard Kaufman
 
Posts: 20469
Joined: 07/18/01 12:00 PM
Location: Washington DC

Postby Glenn Farrington » 09/24/04 08:24 PM

Somebody call Frank Black. We might need the Millennium group in on this one.
Comedy's Easy...Dying Sucks.
User avatar
Glenn Farrington
 
Posts: 630
Joined: 01/24/08 01:00 PM
Location: Los Angeles

Postby Glenn Farrington » 09/24/04 08:26 PM

My last comment was funnier before the post it was refferning to got deleted...but trust me...if you had read it...you'd still be laughing...it's all about..............................timing.
Comedy's Easy...Dying Sucks.
User avatar
Glenn Farrington
 
Posts: 630
Joined: 01/24/08 01:00 PM
Location: Los Angeles

Postby Pete Biro » 09/24/04 08:49 PM

hee hee hee... Kai Dong Hot Choy (I think that's right phonetically, except mayby "hot" is wrong), anyway, can the webmaster bounce [censored] messages back with every known virus?

Oh, the Chinese line above means, I think, "The Egg Bag." My opening line with the Malini routine.
Stay tooned.
User avatar
Pete Biro
 
Posts: 7124
Joined: 01/17/08 01:00 PM
Location: Hollyweird

Postby Steve V » 09/24/04 09:50 PM

When Mr. Busby does go into that great unknown I claim dibs on all his rights.
Steve V
Steve V
Steve V
 
Posts: 642
Joined: 01/20/08 01:00 PM
Location: Silver Springs, NV

Postby Guest » 09/24/04 10:36 PM

What if everyon, including me, who had Fox stuff -- everyone who has stuff that "looks like Fox Made it" and/or Modeled after Fox orginals --- were all of a sudden -- on the same day -- list their items on E bay???

Let's guess that 2 or 300 items were so listed by 200 or so magicians -- maybe E bay would notice????

GC

PS -- we could set reserves pretty high because of the Market scarcety created by B....... After all he does not have a protected monopoly. And if he went after 20-or 30 of us -- he could be accused of maliscious harrassment in pursuit restraint of trade -- and damages due to 20 or more pulled sales might be interesting to calculate.

As my father says (and he's been waiting 92 years) "come the revolution.......
Guest
 

Postby Pete Biro » 09/24/04 10:38 PM

Steve V - Busby HAS NO RIGHTS... to get rights for something you need to PAY FOR THEM. IN FULL.
Stay tooned.
User avatar
Pete Biro
 
Posts: 7124
Joined: 01/17/08 01:00 PM
Location: Hollyweird

Postby Steve Mills » 09/25/04 10:00 AM

Sometimes....

You just run out of cheeks!!
The more I learn about people, the more I like my dog. – Mark Twain
Steve Mills
 
Posts: 228
Joined: 01/17/08 01:00 PM
Location: Saint Charles, IL

Postby Steve V » 09/25/04 10:48 AM

Too bad! I'm claiming them anyway! I also claim everything made by General Motors!
Steve V
Steve V
Steve V
 
Posts: 642
Joined: 01/20/08 01:00 PM
Location: Silver Springs, NV

Next

Return to Buzz