Pabular

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Postby John Pezzullo » 02/28/02 03:40 AM

Currently listed as a 'Hot List' item on Hank Lee's Magic Factory web site is "Pabular - Book One":


The first of a series of high quality clothbound books reproducing every hard to find issue of the magazine acclaimed to be one of the richest sources of subtle, inventive close-up magic. 'Pabular - Book One' presents volumes one and two, the first 24 issues. Over 300 pages of brilliant modern tricks with cards, coins, ropes, cups and balls and much more.


The first issue of "Pabular" was published back in September 1974.

This is definitely something worth buying.

Does anyone know who the publisher is of these collections of "Pabular"?

[ February 28, 2002: Message edited by: John Pezzullo ]
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Postby pduffie » 02/28/02 10:33 AM

Hi John

This is published by Sam Gringrass (Magico) and is in breach of copyright. He paid the owner of Pabular (Nick Bolton) zero money. Nick recently sold the full rights to Martin Breese (UK), who will be releasing the Digital Pabular on CDROM in two weeks time. This will be a fully indexed, hyperlinked electronic edition containing the complete set of the magazine.

There is more to be said about this affair and I suggest you watch for announcements elsewhere soon.

Best Wishes

Peter
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Postby John Pezzullo » 02/28/02 12:06 PM

Peter,

Thanks for the information.

I'll wait for the "Digital Pabular".

Regards,


John
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Postby Dustin Stinett » 02/28/02 12:25 PM

I am curious as to how Mr. Gringrass rationalizes his actions. Personally, I prefer book form, but not if it's going to support an alleged thief. I own many assorted originals, but nothing near a full file. (How many volumes were there? Nine?)

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Postby Pete Biro » 02/28/02 01:21 PM

Isn't Gringras a Rabbi??? :confused:
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Postby Dustin Stinett » 02/28/02 01:34 PM

Oy Vay!
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Postby Guest » 03/02/02 06:19 AM

Yes, Martin was telling me of the CD release at Blackpool, all Pabular on disc as against 2 volumes in hardcover is no contest. I thought Sam was a Rabbi too, would be interesting to hear what HE has to say.

Martin had a similar scenario with The Pentagram.

Paul.
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Postby Steve Bryant » 03/02/02 08:05 AM

Paul,

How do you mean no contest? I would much rather have two books than one CD, even if they cost more. (And I say this even though I have a CD for sale.) I'm not discussing the ethics here (I'm still not fully aware of that issue), just format.
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Postby pduffie » 03/02/02 08:52 AM

Well, here's the latest notice from Martin Breese regarding this issue:

You will be aware that a few magic dealers are advertising and selling the first volume of the Pabular magic reprint. I am told that this has been published by Magico Magazine company headed up by Rabbi Sam Gringrass of New York. I (Martin Breese) own the rights to the Pabular magazine having last year entered into a formal contract with the publisher of the magazine Mr Nick Bolton. Mr Bolton has assured me that Rabbi Sam Gringrass does not own any rights to the magazine and does not have a contract which permits him to publish this magazine. I have been advised by my lawyers that any magic dealer to sell a single copy of this publication is in contravention of the international laws of copyright and offending sales may be reported to the FBI.

If anyone doubts my ownership of Pabular magazine I will be happy to fax them a copy of my contract. If they believe that the magazine belongs to the Rabbi they should ask him to prove his ownership to them. The purpose of this posting is to ask those magicians who believe that dealers and publishers should act ethically, not to purchase the pirated copy of Pabular.

Instead they are most welcome to purchase the completely legitimate Digital Pabular which should be ready on March 12th for $40 dollars post free airmail anywhere in the world. Many of the contributors to Pabular and many distinguished magicians and magical organisations are upset to see that the Pabular magazine has appeared without permission from its rightful owner or from the man who published it. Max Maven, Obie Obrien, Terry Seabrooke, David Berglas, Peter Duffie, David Britland and Pat Page are just a few of those who rallied their support in condemnation of unethical practices in magic. Most dealers have decided not to sell copies of the pirated Pabular and most of the leading Magical Magazines will not be publishing advertisements for this product. If you find anyone selling the hardbound Volume One of Pabular you could register your disapproval of such an act by emailing the company to express your views. I am heartened by the number of my magical friends who have supported me in my stance towards unethical magical publishing. Thank you for your help,

Martin Breese, 164 Kensington Park Road, London W11 2ER UK Tel 0207 727 9426 Email: Martin@abracadabra.co.uk
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Postby Pete Biro » 03/02/02 09:08 AM

I had written the good Rabbi a couple of times to ask permission to quote someting in a book he "reprinted" some time ago and NEVER GOT A RESPONSE...

Guess what... "as the Irish woman said, 'fikem'" :D
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Postby Guest » 03/02/02 04:30 PM

Steve, I too, prefer a hardcover book to reading from the screen. But in this case (ethical issues aside), it was considered no contest because the CD is ALL of Pabular whereas the book is just a couple of volumes. For around the same price, I would prefer ALL rather than a fraction.

Paul.
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Postby Cugel » 03/02/02 06:45 PM

Still, I wish Breese would put out a complete bound reprint. A book beats a crummy CD anyday.

Of course, this way he has low overheads and can make a fortune - CD's cost practically nothing to make or mail. Bah, humbug.
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Postby Don Spurrier » 03/03/02 05:18 PM

An interesting thought. Gringras (Magico Magazine) published Vol. 8, #11,12 and Vol. 9, #1 of PABULAR. When Breese does the digital version, will these be included? Let's bounce back and forth. What, then, is the complete file?
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Postby Andy Hurst » 03/06/02 09:19 PM

Originally posted by Andrew Wimhurst:
Still, I wish Breese would put out a complete bound reprint. A book beats a crummy CD anyday.


I guess this comes down to personal preference. Having spent some time back in the mid 1990's supporting electronic document storage systems, I guess I became a fan of electronic medium for things like this.

My magic book shelves are already over-full and ever-growing, and because my 'magic room' has a computer with CD-ROM, I don't mind using the CD versions of these publications. Especially because the ability to quickly search for something is much easier with an electronic document.

Maybe in time more people will come to love the electronic editions of things? In some industries people pay a premium to get something in electronic format. Magic isn't there yet.

I am sure that making 'The Foo Can Journal' electronic only has hurt us, and we may end up releasing a print bound edition (the reverse of what is happening with older publications that led in print format).

As for making more money. Creating an electronic version takes a lot of time, and I'm sure some less scrupulous magicians are nabbing illegal copies. I for one am glad Martin Breese is doing what he is.

I'm also glad that Peter Duffie is putting many books in electronic format.

Horses for courses? Probably. But in time I think more people will come to love the e-format. Less shelf space, quicker searching, etc.

Just my 'not worth a poop' opinion of course :-)


Andy Hurst http://www.foocan.com
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Postby James Foster » 03/08/02 09:56 AM

Today's Magic Times Press Wire (http://www.magictimes.com/presswire/rel ... 03-08a.htm) announces the (unauthorized) Magico release of Pabular.
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Postby Richard Kaufman » 03/08/02 07:46 PM

There is absolutely no question that Martin Breese has a signed contract with Nick Bolton, the original owner and publisher of Pabular, to reprint the magazine. I have seen the contract, as have the editors of The Linking Ring, MAGIC, and MUM.
The Rabbi Sam Gringras, a lowlife if ever I've met one (never paid me half the money for the Peter Kane book I illustrated for him 20 years ago), has yet to produce ANY contract between himself and Nick Bolton giving him the right to reprint any of the original issues of Pabular. What Gringras had at one point was the right to print NEW issues, of which he did a few and then stopped.
Any person selling a copy of the pirate edition of Pabular published by Sam Gringras (aka Magico) is liable for suit under the copyright law.
So ... DON'T BUY IT!!!! Do NOT support theft of copyrighted material.
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Postby Guest » 04/04/02 08:09 AM

Is it true that the CD version does not include any of Jerry Sadowitz's tricks? Have they been removed?

yours,
Scott
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Postby Richard Kaufman » 04/04/02 10:06 AM

It IS true that the CD of Pabular does NOT contain any of the Jerry Sadowitz tricks. They were removed (8 items, I believe).
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Postby Steve Bryant » 04/04/02 12:13 PM

It is also true that Card Zones, with material by Duffie and Sadowitz and published by Martin Breese, is not being carried by some dealers because Sadowitz has objected to the volume being published. Despite some minor sloppiness (references to figures that don't exist, for example), it is nonetheless a handsome book full of great material.
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Postby Andy Hurst » 04/04/02 09:51 PM

Originally posted by Steve Bryant:
It is also true that Card Zones, with material by Duffie and Sadowitz and published by Martin Breese, is not being carried by some dealers because Sadowitz has objected to the volume being published.
I heard that. I don't know the deal, but if thats true, Breese is no better than the Magic Rabbi. Anyone got the full scoop?

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Postby Tom Dobrowolski » 04/05/02 07:34 AM

The difference would be that if Martin Breese has the copyright for the material in Card Zones he has the right to publish it. Rev. Sam doesn't have the copyright for Pabular.
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Postby pduffie » 04/05/02 09:31 AM

Of course Martin Breese owns the copyright on CardZones - he bought the complete rights to all five books years ago. I have contracts that prove it.

Best Wishes

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Postby Andy Hurst » 04/05/02 04:34 PM

I didn't think Martin Breese would do anything he shouldn't.

So basically Jerry Sadowitz is complaining but he doesn't have any right to even if the material in the book is his.
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Postby Bob Farmer » 04/06/02 07:40 AM

CardZones is a great book and as far as I know has been virtually ignored on this side of the ocean -- perhaps because it's a bit pricey. If it was selling for around $35 U.S., Martin Breese would probably sell a ton. Three of my favourites:

1. "Bedazzled" -- a great packet trick that would easily sell for $15 all by itself.

2. "Come Together" -- an excellent version of Walton's "Oil and Queen's" plot.

3. "Stop Sleight" -- a move that allows you to find a selected card at any position in the pack named by the spectator (see the somewhat related idea by Manuel Llaser, "Llaser Open Prediction" in the Aprill, 2002 MAGIC.

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Postby Guest » 09/21/02 11:53 AM

Originally posted by Richard Kaufman:
It IS true that the CD of Pabular does NOT contain any of the Jerry Sadowitz tricks. They were removed (8 items, I believe).
Which in my opinion is an absolute scandal.

Euan
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Postby Q. Kumber » 09/21/02 03:44 PM

Martin Breese removed the Sadowitz effects in Pabilar from the CD because Jerry kicked up such a stink about CardZones.

The scandal seems to be that Jerry isn't prepared to accept legally binding contracts that he signed.
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Postby Guest » 09/21/02 04:47 PM

I wonder if Jerry was in touch with the Rabbi about removing his effects from the pirate Pabular? :)
Paul.
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Postby Guest » 09/21/02 05:16 PM

Quick question, if Jerry's material has been deleted from the CD version...how can this be called, or even considered a complete set?

Mike
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Postby Guest » 09/21/02 06:39 PM

Originally posted by Mike Gallo:
how can this be called, or even considered a complete set?
I e-mailed Breese asking the same thing and got no reply :\

I think It's ridiculous and frankly quite childish of Breese.

Euan
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Postby Guest » 09/22/02 12:45 AM

re;
I think It's ridiculous and frankly quite childish of Breese.

Is this a case of damned if you do and damned if you don't?

I would think Card Zones was printed before Jerry knew and started to complain. Since Martin COULD do something about Pabular he did, putting the material originators wishes above his own legal rights. I would hardly call that childish. It may well have been done at the last minute also.

I didn't realize until reading this thread Jerry's material HAD been removed, so it isn't a complete Pabular collection. But, there are so many effects and contributors one would hardly notice. Unless you specifically bought it for Jerry's effects :) .

Now, not replying to your e-mail, that was simply not polite. Perhaps he misread the tone of your e-mail.

Did I tell you I had all my material removed from reprints of Expert Card Technique? :)

Paul
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Postby Guest » 09/22/02 11:09 AM

Originally posted by Paul Hallas:
I would think Card Zones was printed before Jerry knew and started to complain. Since Martin COULD do something about Pabular he did, putting the material originators wishes above his own legal rights. I would hardly call that childish. It may well have been done at the last minute also.
No, because he left Jerrys material out in order to punish him for speaking out about Card Zones :\
That's what I meant by saying he was being childish. Or so it says in the recent issue of the crimp anyway.

Euan
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Postby Guest » 09/22/02 11:27 AM

re:
"No, because he left Jerrys material out in order to punish him for speaking out about Card Zones :\
That's what I meant by saying he was being childish. Or so it says in the recent issue of the crimp anyway."

To punish him? lol. What kind of punishment is that?

If you don't want your earlier material using you don't want it using. Of course, Jerry says all sorts in the Crimp I believe and because of the "style" and expletives one cannot be sure whether he is serious or not.

Martin and Jerry can do what they want, I'm outta here. :)

Paul.
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Postby pduffie » 09/22/02 11:28 AM

Hi Euan

I wouldn't believe everything that is printed in The Crimp. In fact I don't believe anything that's printed in The Crimp now.

However, I can confirm that these items were a last minute removal because I have a beta version of the CD and the content is complete. The beta version is without hyperlinks and it was during this final stage that the items in question were removed.

Does Mr. Sadowitz mention faxes in the Crimp?

Best Wishes

Peter
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Postby Guest » 09/22/02 02:24 PM

Hello Peter

Well obviously I don't believe everything in the crimp as most of it is meant to be a **** take. There's no mention of faxes but he does talk about emails and legal action, with regards to Card Zones anyway. Also I don't know the full story so can't really comment further than to say that I'm not happy with the situation.

On the Pabular side of things Jerry states

"Martin Breese, in order to "punish" me for speaking out about the illegal book 'card zones', has maliciously removed all my trick contributions from the new cd-rom edition.
I believe this is the first example of literary genocide from a magic publisher, and while nobody in the magic world gives a s***, ask yourself how you would feel if the contributions belonged to Vernon, Derren Brown, or anyone whose material you respected? or you?" - The Crimp issue 54b page 504

Well speaking for myself I respect Jerrys material, I think it's excellent and I feel it's a great loss to have it erased from history such as it has been. Imagine the same thing happened to Alex Elmsley, there would be absolute uproar.

Kind Regards

Euan
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Postby Guest » 09/22/02 03:33 PM

re;
I feel it's a great loss to have it erased from history such as it has been.

Has it? Has someone been going around collecting all the relevant original issues and burning them? The material still exists in print Euan.

I respect Jerry's card material too. It is a shame this has happened but collectors who have the original magazines probably have a smile on their faces right now.

Paul.
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Postby Guest » 09/23/02 09:52 AM

Well Paul, for all the people who are too young to have been around to buy Pabular when it was originally printed (ie me and countless others) it has erased it from history. No doubt a lot of the people who are buying the cd-rom are getting thier first taste of the magazine and so are totally unaware that anything is up with it.

That was my point and I'm sticking to it ;)

Euan
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Postby Denis Behr » 09/23/02 11:34 AM

I wonder whether there are any news concerning a (hopefully really complete) reprint (you know... the thing with paper) of Pabular or is this something that will not happen in the next few years?
Here in Germany there are several dealers who carry the unauthorized reprint - maybe because of a lack of information about the facts of this issue - but of course that's not what I am really looking for...

Greetings,
Denis
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Postby Richard Kaufman » 09/23/02 12:00 PM

Denis, I had an option with Martin Breese to print Pabular in two large hardcover volumes, but with the sales of Magico's illegal reprint, plus the sales of Martin's own CD-Rom at such a low price, I decided that it would too big a risk because of the uncertainty of how many would sell. You see, it would cost almost $20,000 to reprint Pabular in book form--a lot of money!
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Postby Guest » 09/23/02 12:18 PM

Well I would buy it :)

Euan
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Postby Denis Behr » 09/23/02 01:35 PM

Richard, I see the point. But I think there are a lot of book lovers out there that would be interested. And the illegal reprint is not complete (what percentage is covered in it?). Neither is the CD-Rom. And after all: I'd buy a copy... :)

Denis
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