How Many Would Like to See my Book SEANCE Reprinted?

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Postby Richard Kaufman » 01/05/03 03:54 PM

Just trying to get an idea if there are more than two people interested in seeing Scott Moore-Davis' book SEANCE reprinted. How many hands up?
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Postby Alain Roy » 01/05/03 04:01 PM

I don't know--I haven't heard of it before. I suppose this makes me clueless. Can you provide a short description of the book?

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Postby Charles Spector » 01/06/03 09:46 PM

I don't want to see it reprinted as I have a copy. I would not want to see its $$$$ value diminished. On the other hand, the information inside is priceless and I believe that it would be a benefit to the magic community to have it reprinted. After all, the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the Charlie.

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Postby Dave Egleston » 01/07/03 12:20 AM

Well, you know me, you print, I'll buy it - I look forward to it

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Postby Eric Rose » 01/07/03 04:12 AM

I'll take one. If you don't get a third person to commit on this thread, I'll take two copies to make up the difference. (I'll just use the KrazyKat method of marketing and sell the extra one on ebay for 3 times the cost :) )
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Postby James Lee » 01/07/03 06:55 AM

I'm afraid that, like Alain, I am not familiar with the book. However, I am certainly interested enough to ask for more information.
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Postby Rick Schulz » 01/08/03 11:21 AM

Tell us more about the book - perhaps list the Table of Contents. I too am interested. :)
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Postby Guest » 01/08/03 05:39 PM

I like to get a copy if it is reprinted. I'd also like to see the third volume of Invocation reprinted so my set would be complete.
Thanks for your time.
Doug
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Postby Guest » 01/15/03 10:07 AM

Richard,
Four votes of "YES" from me, John Blake, Joe, and Steve here at Magic, Music & More.

Oh, and Joe would like to you crank out just a single copy of J.K Hartman's "Card Craft" for him. :D

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Postby Brian Morton » 01/15/03 09:17 PM

I've got it already! Don't do it! :D

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Postby kev » 01/26/03 07:53 PM

I have been trying to get a complete set for awhile now!!! I lose ebay auctions that go as high as 300.00! I missed on that sold for 75.00 because, I was at work! I have my share of books on this subject, but I would love to have Seance Magazine! Gee your killing me!I would willing pay the price, even if it was high, but by God, put it on the market!

If you read this and have and wish to apart with It, let me know!
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Postby Brad A._dup1 » 01/27/03 08:11 PM

If you don't reprint it, I'd suggest making a number of photocopies for the guys in this post.
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Postby Joe Hanosek » 01/29/03 03:19 PM

Considering the good things I've heard, I would very interested in a reprinting.
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Postby John LeBlanc » 01/31/03 06:09 AM

Originally posted by Richard Kaufman:
Just trying to get an idea if there are more than two people interested in seeing Scott Moore-Davis' book SEANCE reprinted. How many hands up?
You can add me to the list.

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Postby Guest » 03/03/03 12:34 PM

Yes, please. :D
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Postby Brad Henderson » 03/04/03 11:34 PM

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... gory=14013

Seance reprint with an opening bid of $200 and buy it now for $500.

Just FYI.
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Postby Brad Henderson » 03/05/03 09:46 PM

Sold today for $500. Oddly the same gentleman purchased 10 of the original issues a few days ago for a mere $40. I think Richard should reprint and sell the guy 10 copies.
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Postby Guest » 03/10/03 01:47 AM

Sign me up, would love to see this back in print.
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Postby Guest » 03/13/03 07:51 PM

I would definitely buy a copy if it were reprinted.
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Postby Ted Leon » 03/26/03 09:44 PM

So Richard, as another who will purchase the book, what's the verdict?
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Postby Necromancer » 03/27/03 12:48 PM

I'm in, too. What do I owe you?
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Postby kay » 03/28/03 05:08 PM

Just arrived inthese forums, count me in! I will surely take a copy if you do another printing!
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Postby Guest » 04/04/03 05:15 PM

I have been searching foir the bound copy for a while -- I use WORKERS stuff -- not collectors editions -- so if you bring out Seance Bound -- OR on CD I would buy at a reasonable price for us guys who work at non-Las Vegas rates of ROI.

Gregg C. H. Mara

PS - if anyone has a beat up copy they want to sell -- let me know I am in the middle of act rewrites and adding two new parts that seance type info is needed.
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Postby Guest » 04/05/03 06:24 PM

I would certainly buy a copy as well and also would appreciate a reprint of In vocation Vol3
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Postby Guest » 04/09/03 04:37 PM

Richard,

A dear friend and fellow performer has tasked me with getting a copy of this book for him if I ever see it available. I did find a steal of a deal of a used copy for myself a while ago, but this freind does not have one. I can tell you for certain that he will buy a copy in a heartbeat. I think he'd probably pay $40 or $50 or so for it.

I've seen this book go on eBay infrequently and for fairly high prices.

Mental Wires,
Allen

http://MentalWires.com
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Postby Marco Pusterla » 04/10/03 06:00 AM

I would be interested in a reprint.

Thanks!
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Postby Guest » 04/15/03 10:57 AM

Big time!!!

Thanks Richard!
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Postby Guest » 04/16/03 01:31 PM

Since the book was sold with the promise that it would be limited to 1000 copies, I'd say it would not be right to reprint it.

Is anyone interested in one of the originals? Let me know, I might sell mine.

Best wishes,

Chas Roberts
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Postby Steve Bryant » 04/16/03 02:53 PM

Although the "1000 copies" might have been a big hint to buy it before it sold out, the book was not overpriced because of its rarity, so I can't imagine original owners (of which I am one and also owner of a set of the magazines) complaining if it is reprinted. I would be thrilled to see ALL magic books stay in print, forever.
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Postby CHRIS » 04/16/03 03:05 PM

Originally posted by Steve Bryant:
I would be thrilled to see ALL magic books stay in print, forever.
You know the solution to that wish, don't you. Can you hear the chanting getting louder and louder? ......, ..oo.., e.oo.., e.oo.s, ebooks, EBOOKS, EBOOKS, EBOOKS ;)

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Postby Steve Bryant » 04/16/03 09:25 PM

Aaugh, nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo ...
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Postby Guest » 04/16/03 10:04 PM

Well --

If the promise that a book will only be available in limited quantities becomes meaningless, then doesn't that signify that the material contained within will be somewhat less exclusive, and therefore less valuable? We are told that magic books are expensive because of their limited distribution, and the resulting higher percentage of the costs of production. This model justifies a price for magic books that is usually at least twice and in many cases quadruple that of the book trades.

In the case of "Seance", we are talking about a book that was a reprint of exclusively distributed periodicals to begin with. Why not make a book of "the Altar Flame" or some other similar material instead, and produce a new book?

Reprinting books has two very big downsides:

1) It cheapens the value of the originally printed books by diluting their exclusivity, thereby causing a possible lowering of the initial impetus to buy them in the first printing, since the second printings will undoubtably be bigger, better-edited and of higher production quality. (Witness the recent reprint of Earl Nelson's masterpiece "Variations" - the new book is ten times the quality at far less cost.) If consumers decide to wait (since the second printing will be out sooner or later) I suspect that book sales will be adversely affected in ways we'd not like to think about. Imagine the disappearing profits if first printings usually resulted in 60% remainders. Do we really want to take the chance that first printings need to be limited to a few hundred copies, since the consumers will only wait until the better second printings are available? I shudder to think what that will do to already meager profit margins.

and

2) It gluts the marketplace with reprinted material. This has the net effect of stifling the trade and production of new material. Magic is an art form that is intrinsically based on creativity, exclusivity, and secrecy. Does it not make sense to support it that way? What if other art forms were based to a high extent on derivitive works? Would they be as valuable, dynamic, and interesting?

As good as the old classics are, it is my considered opinion that we'd be better off by encouraging more creativity than by simply taking the easy short term profit made by reissuing a previously marketed book.

Sincerely,
Chas Roberts
the Good Magician
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Postby CHRIS » 04/17/03 07:44 AM

Chas,

you made some valuable observations, but I don't agree with all of them. I don't think that reprints would heart the sales of 1st editions because there is typically a significant time gap between the initial release and the reprint. So buying the first edition will give you 3 or 5 or 10 years advance on the material. Further, even if many books are reprinted, some would not be. So there is still this nagging doubt if you can buy that book later at all.

Regarding exclusivity. I don't think one can have it both ways. Either one keeps certain material private or one publishes it and thus makes it 'public'. Even if the print run is 'limited' to say 1000 copies, there is a second hand market, there is illegal copying, there is verbal dissemination of information, a.s.o. Hundreds of ways to spread the information. And finally once the copyright is extinguished it can be reprinted unlimited.

My opinion is that there is a practical exclusivity enforced by the huge amount of material available. I would for example be very interested to know how many have really read and studied the Tarbell Course. I guess many have it at home ( if not you should check out my latest Tarbell CD ) but how many have read it? Or take old magazines, for example The Sphinx. It has 17000 pages in which one will find literally hundreds of gems which are 'exclusive' to the ones that read this material.

We don't need limited editions or 'exclusive' material. Everybody can hunt for and find his own exclusive material in the material that has already been published.

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Postby Bill Mullins » 04/17/03 12:15 PM

Originally posted by Chris Wasshuber:
I don't think that reprints would heart the sales of 1st editions because there is typically a significant time gap between the initial release and the reprint.
I disagree here. If I had bought a copy of Variations shortly before the recent edition were announced, I'd be kinda perturbed right now. The price of the first edition has dropped a good bit since the new release (at least from what I've seen on ebay). See ebay #2168776588 , where an older edition didn't sell at $50. This used to be a book that would have sold at much more than that.


And finally once the copyright is extinguished it can be reprinted unlimited.
It looks like Disney and the Congress are working to see that copyright is never extinguished again.

Originally posted by Steve Bryant:
Aaugh, nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo ...
Yeah.
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Postby Guest » 04/17/03 12:36 PM

Chris, you've missed the meat of my point. What difference does it make if one waits 3 or 5 or 10 years to buy a book? There is so much material out there I just think it's a shame to dilute the market with reprints rather than new books.

As far as reprints - I agree that the only logical way to go is to make them available electronically. It cuts down on the storage space and allows easier access and searching.

But a lot of these electronically distributed books are poorly produced and not worth the money. Why not use better production values in order to win wider acceptance?

So let's agree to hard copy print only new material (or compendiums of periodicals) and electronically distribute everything else.

Right now there are a lot of smaller individuals putting out a great deal of new material electronically, by the way. Not having the resources to advance large sums of money in traditional production and distribution models is not keeping the vanguard from self publishing.

Andy Warhol and Marshall McLuhan were both right.

Best wishes,

Chas Roberts
the Good Magician
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Postby Guest » 04/17/03 12:38 PM

By the way, I forgot - If anyone is interested in an original printing of the book "Seance" I'm still interested in selling mine.

Best wishes,

Chas Roberts
the Good Magician
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Postby CHRIS » 04/17/03 07:25 PM

Chris, you've missed the meat of my point. What difference does it make if one waits 3 or 5 or 10 years to buy a book? There is so much material out there I just think it's a shame to dilute the market with reprints rather than new books.

I get your point and agree to a certain extent. However not every new material is great. Reprinting an old great book can have a lot of value. Take for example Lang Neil's "The Modern Conjurer" or "New Era Card Tricks" by Roterberg. Two wonderful old books never reprinted. I bet that 95% of magicians have not read any of these two books and that most everyone could learn a great deal from doing so. By reprinting those I think one hardly 'dilutes' anything. Quite contrary it would provide wonderful 'old but new again' material. That is one of the reasons I republish these and other great books.

But a lot of these electronically distributed books are poorly produced and not worth the money. Why not use better production values in order to win wider acceptance?

I am the first to admit that one can always do better and ebooks on average would require more attention to detail than they receive right now. Have you ever seen one of my Lybrary.com ebooks? I am not saying mine are perfect, but I think I spend more time on making them as good as I can than many other ebook publishers. I am also trying to extend the features of ebooks. For example my text-to-speech integration or the integration of a facsimile version or embedding video clips as I did with Card College. We are now working on even more advanced features such as automatic ebook cross links and even better search features.

So let's agree to hard copy print only new material (or compendiums of periodicals) and electronically distribute everything else.

That would be a good start. ;)

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Postby Chris Aguilar » 04/19/03 08:43 PM

Originally posted by Bill Mullins:
[QB]I disagree here. If I had bought a copy of Variations shortly before the recent edition were announced, I'd be kinda perturbed right now. The price of the first edition has dropped a good bit since the new release (at least from what I've seen on ebay).
So what?

Why should we deny future generations acess to hard copy versions of wonderful old books simply because some folks might be concerned that reprinting might "dilute" the monetary value of their first editions?
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Postby Guest » 04/20/03 12:17 AM

I think Larry Becker set a very good pattern with Stunners.

1. Limited hardback run first edition.

2. After a period, issued limited run Softback at a price that supported but was reasonable to both first edition price support -- and TRUE seekers of the work (not a Dover republication.)

3. After several years now -- has a new REVISED edition with updates and suggestions all woprked upon after and added to the first two.


Could that not be a reasonable pattern for Sceance -- a GREAT Quality paperback limited run for workers -- at a market price that keeps the casual; away --

and then for Richard Kaufman (who seems to be pretty good at business) to collect feedback, additional materials and then an another year or so -- issue a supplement of SECOND REVISED edition with the new materials????? Some materials might be contribnuted for republication -- some may require compensation to include -- but as a businessman I am sure Richard knows the rights issues better than any of us on the forum.

ALSO -- DOES ANYONE HAVE A COMPLETE SET UNBOUND THEY WISH TO SELL == Contact me with price.....


(BTW -- ANDY GREGET has a completer set of MAGIC compiled he just got from a collectionj I covet--but cannot afford.)
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Postby Chris Aguilar » 04/20/03 01:34 AM

Originally posted by C.H.Mara:
I think Larry Becker set a very good pattern with Stunners.
I completely agree with you that Becker handled it well.

However, look at all the flack he took from those worried that his reprint would devalue their first edition copies of Stunners,

The poor man was excoriated by many for simply reprinting his own book.

Even though I don't own the new edition, I'm glad that he improved it and re-released it for a whole new generation to enjoy.

I tip my hat to you Larry.
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