Complete Works of Derek Dingle

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Postby Guest » 08/04/02 02:38 PM

This is one of my fairly recent buys. I found the book very intriguing but some of the sleights used are intimidating.

I wonder if someone (maybe even Richard) could point me out to some good routines in the book that don't imply hundreds of hours of rehearsal?(Do your thoughts also peculiarly wander towards Rollover Aces?)

Thanks to all
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Postby Guest » 08/04/02 06:26 PM

Hey I feel your pain. I love the book.The all backs with selection isn't terribly difficult, the quick d three way is nice also. Through and through two is mighty nice. Oil and Vinegar besides a well covered bottom deal is good. Thats just a few. The book is a goldmine.

Noah Levine
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Postby Rafael Benatar » 08/04/02 08:56 PM

Color Triumph, Collectors, Fabulous Jumping Card Trick (Ed Victor's 11-card trick). Quick D-Way is Johnny Thompson's All Backs (credited) with a minor change in handling. All wonderful tricks, most of which I often use.Also Too Many Cards.
Incidentally, something seems to be missing in the patter for 11-card trick. He says, put 6 cards in this hand and 5 in this hand. I think one should add "... and I'm going to make 1 card jump from one hand to the other" (alla Cards Across) for this to make sense.
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Postby Guest » 08/05/02 02:19 PM

D.D.
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Postby Guest » 08/14/02 01:32 PM

Something a colleague of mine pointed out to me at the club the other night...

Technically speaking, "Too Many Cards" is brilliant, in that it teaches you (or at least encourages you to improve) so many sleights.

Those of you who know the routine will know what I mean.

Mark
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Postby Brad Jeffers » 08/14/02 04:02 PM

I love that trick! It's a variation of Larry Jennings "Ambitious Classic", but was inspired by Dingle seeing Bruce Cervon perform his version, which he calls "A Matter of Psychology". I like Dingle's version best, however, when I do the trick, I handle the last two cards in the same manner as Cervon, which has no outwardly appearing difference to Dingle's version, but leaves you with a reversed card in the deck. An interesting aspect of the different handling's, is that in the Dingle version, which uses five cards, there are seven magical moments, while Cervon's method, which uses only four cards, has eight! All three versions are good, but as I said, Dingle's is the best. While on the subject of "Too Many Cards", I will thank Mr. Benetar for the tip he gave a while back concerning his use of duplicate five of spades and a marking pen, to create a unique ending for this trick. A very good, and useful idea!
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Postby Rafael Benatar » 08/14/02 09:47 PM

Glad you liked it Brad. It was actually a duplicate 5H, using only Hearts for the trick. The reason is that Hearts are better suited to that presentation (described at the end of this post for quick reference) and that the writing of the marker shows better on red cards.

Also, I completely agree with Mark. Going over this trick is excellent handling practice.

Here are some more thoughts on Too Many Cards, as well as a full routine developed after countless performances. One thing is you can use it for a corporate show or whatever and have a logo printed on the last card.

In the regular version, the premise doesn't really follow a consistent direction, as it is "ambitious" only part of the time. I leave it as it is but use a presentation to go with it, as follows. Also, some ideas on handling. Here goes:

On handling:
I like the idea of Jennings of showing the 5S repeatedly throughout the trick so the ending registers better. You can show the 5s at every phase. So here's my handling (everything as in Dingle's version with some subtle touches). You're supposed to be familiar with DDs version to follow this.

The Ace
Insert it 2nd from top leaving it an inch injogged. Say"...it's not on the top..:" take packet with right fingers and lift it to show "...and not on the bottom". Bring packet back to horizontal position and say: "it's in the middle." Magic gesture and it comes to the top (double lift).
Turn the double face down, insert the top card 2nd from bottom, injogged as before, and say again, "Not on top..." Now lift the packet to show the underside. This time, since the injogged is not the Ace, the r.h. takes the packet from above by the ends, so the right thumb "happens" to push the card flush in the process and its face is not seen, yet it looks pretty much the same as the first time.Leave the Ace aside.

The Two
Follow RK-Dingle instructions (impromptu double-backer bit), showing the card injogged (this time you can really show it again). Leave the Deuce aside.

The Three
Look at the audience and say: "Since I see some people looking like this..." (lean your head to one side as if looking under something). This will get some chuckles as people will actually be that way, or at least wanting to."...I'll do it face up so you guys don't break your necks...."
Addresss someone in front: "You'll be the witness but you gotta watch very carefully (I don't do a feint here as I think Dingle suggests). The Three goes clearly face up in the middle. Ask the witness where is the 3. He'll say in the middle. "Face up or face down?" He says face up. Say, "You were supposed to watch carefully" and show the reversed card.Continue, "but if I insert it face down, it turns face up, you're following?" Put the 3 aside. "Only 2 cards, the 4 and the 5. If I put the 5 on top, what card is on top? The 5? That's too many cards (show the 4 on top)" Lay the 4 aside (and the black five with it). You have 1 card left (5H). "Have you ever seen a trick with just 1 card? Ask a lady with nice hands (at least) to lay her left hand on top of that card, which you're holding face down on the palm of your left hand. The card is sandwiched between your hand and hers. Turn over the card sandwich so you're now on top. "And this trick I dedicate it to you with all my love." As you finish that sentence, remove your hand slowly, withdrawing it backwards in color-change fashion.

A full routine,
This is a routine I often use professionally, combining it with other tricks as follows.
Openly take out Ace thru 4 of Spades and 4 high red spot cards and put them on the table. Leave the 5S on top of the deck, followed by the 5H. Table the deck to your left.
With the 8 cards on the table perform the Jennings-Kosby Oil and Water routine or any other 8-card O&W.
Follow with Max Maven's Relative Interchange (described in FOCUS. My handling appears in one of my videos, with Max's permission, of course. Thanks again, Max).
Bury the red cards in the deck and have the Ace thru 4 of Spades in a row from left to right. Point to them: A, 2, 3, 4.... and 5. Upon reaching the end of the row, the l.h. which is holding the deck, shoots the top card (5S) with Paul Harris' Instant Replay (doing the replay also, as described in CLOSE UP KINDA GUY).
Do your favorite version of that trick where you lay A thru 5 and then the order is magically reversed.
Act as if the trick is over. Take the deck and load the 5H under the Spade packet in a squaring motion. By the time you apparently decide to carry on, the deck is already out of your hands and the 5H loaded. Continue with Too Many Cards as described.

A couple of people have e-mailed me asking me about the idea Brad was referring to, that I posted to this forum a while back. Here it is again for a quick reference:

Here's a presentation I sometimes use for somebody's Birthday: Use 1 thru 5 of Hearts and a duplicate 5H in which you have written: "Happy Birthday whoever". Begin the effect and, noticing you don't have your wand, use a marker to tap every time. For the finish, ask the spectator to open the marker and wave it over the remaining face-down card without touching, and tell everyone to project their thoughts to the tip of the marker. No one will dare to deny that was what they were thinking.
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Postby Guest » 08/15/02 02:46 PM

Thank you for sharing your presentation tips, Rafael. The only thing I do differently is to put the Ace second from top both times but, on the second time, immediately slide off the top card to show it's returned to the top.

The only thing I'm not happy with is the block push-off. I'm not sure I'm performing it convincingly enough and, given that the spectator has been "burned" by the travelling ace, you can be sure that they'll be watching the two very closely.

Thanks again,

Mark
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Postby Guest » 08/15/02 11:57 PM

Thanks to everybody for the tips. I learned "Too Many Cards" yesterday evening. Apart from the DD Double Lift which is still not 100% convincing (it takes some time to get just the two cards with the right third finger) I think it looks pretty good. Well, actually I was amazed at the fact that also the Double Lift is not as difficult as it looks and much more deceptive than a double turnover with the Altman trap (the DL I am currently using and I learned from Regal's DVDs).

I think this routine will definitely stay i my repertoire and I'm going to take a look at Rafael's handling too.

Just one remark: are you content with Dingle's patter? I think it is a bit too confrontational, I think it might somehow offend the spectator. Any opinions?
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Postby Guest » 08/22/02 01:48 AM

In relation to the trick "Too many cards" I think the best version its the Jennings "Ambitious classic variation" from his book "Classic magic of Jennings". "Too many cards" was the first version I learned yeras ago, Cervon version it's better than Dingle, but I rely in Jennings own variation, the method it's much more ingenious than Dingle, and besides it has a very good presentation theme.
Take a look at it.
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Postby Richard Kaufman » 08/22/02 08:18 AM

The Jennings version is the ORIGINAL version. The others are variations.
Jennings created his routine after reading Bill Miesel's routine which appeared in IBIDEM where he used the entire Spade suit of 13 cards and did an Ambitious Card routine with that packet. It did not have a color change at the end.
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Postby Guest » 08/22/02 11:58 PM

I remember after reading Cervon version of the effect: "Too many cards" from Cervon book "Ultra ervon" he complained that versions of "his effect" was published previously by another magicians, and for that, assumed that the original idea was his, or created by Jennings and Cervon in their Vernon formation period. Thamks Richard.
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Postby Guest » 09/07/02 03:02 PM

I would like to add my thumbs up for the Dingle book. An excellent and, I would imagine, easily overlooked chapter is the one on the pass.

These passes are extremely difficult to explain (I've never seen Dingle do them so I'm not even sure if I'm doing them as intended!), but I have obtained great resuslts with the half jiggle pass inparticular.

Persevere with this chapter!

Besides the pass, I also like his Universal Card using the BoTop change and Outflushed (beautiful unload of extra cards here).

Lots of other goodies in there too!
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Postby sleightly » 09/08/02 06:00 AM

I'm late coming to this discussion, but I would also heartily recommend this book as a great course of serious study. Dingle uses technique to further effect in ways that take audiences to a whole different place.

BTW: Speaking of the D.D. Double Lift... A while back, Josh Jay published in his column in MAGIC (May, 2002) an "Experttalk" with John Bannon on the Double Turnover. I found it interesting that this material was almost exactly the same as the DD Double Lift.

I wrote to Josh (he never responded) and sent a letter to MAGIC (they never printed it), but I thought the pertinent material might be of interest here...

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Dear MAGIC magazine:

I thought your readers might like to know that the double turnover technique published in Josh Jay's column as John Bannon's is almost the exact double turnover as taught on page 6 of Derek Dingle's Complete Works (Richard Kaufman, 1992) as The DD Double Lift.

I noticed this immediately because I have been performing this version of the double since around 1992 with a few technical modifications. There are some minor variations in Bannon's turnover (no snap), but for almost all purposes it is the same. Even the photos match Kaufman's illustrations!

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

For those interested in my minute change to the handling read on...

The modification I made to fit my personal handling is a minor one but one that makes a significant difference in audience perception and card handling consistency. If you were to thumb off a card legitimately, it would not keep a "pivot point" against the palm at the inner left corner, but rather would thumb off almost evenly top and bottom from the pack (only a very slight arc). The firm control by the right hand allows for the double push-off to look like an actual single push-off, so why not use it?

Hope this contains some signal...
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Postby Glen Guldbeck » 12/21/02 05:20 PM

I have been a long time fan of Dingle's book. One routine I use all the time is his handling of Gypsy Curse. For me, the count grip is more natural than the biddle grip (which I believe is used in the printed directions with trick?). It has a great suggested patter which Michael Skinner was very fond of performing (see Munari's tapes).

Quick D-Way, The Collectors, Slow Motion Coin Vanish, Too Many Cards, and Slow Motion MacDonald's Aces are also also wonderful routines.

I treasure my autrographed copy.

Glen :)
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Postby Guest » 02/02/03 03:13 PM

Silver quick and slow motion coin vanish come to mind

DJM
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Postby Guest » 03/06/03 07:18 PM

Dingle's work with the fan force (not really a force) is fantastic. you won't always hit it, but with refinement, you can get it about 75 percent of the time. When you succeed, it is real magic.

DJM
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Postby Guest » 03/07/03 12:24 PM

And what's the difference between the Krenzel and Dingle DLs?

Krenzel's work seems to be overlooked by too many magicians (with the exception of the Bullet trick), but the DL is right at the beginning of Classics.

HR
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Postby Richard Kaufman » 03/07/03 08:04 PM

Harley, you're correct, the Dingle handling of the Double Lift is almost the same as the Krenzel handling (there might be one more buckle and snap, but it really isn't much of a difference at all).
Dingle developed that handling for one reason: at that time he could not do the Double Lift he actually uses for magicians. He uses the (now published) Stuart Gordon Double Lift, which back in the late 1970s and early '80s was a deep secret. So, he worked out the DD Double Lift (as I called it) and we included it in the book.
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Postby David Penn » 03/07/03 09:06 PM

Richard:
Where is the Stuart Gordon double lift published?
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Postby Richard Kaufman » 03/07/03 09:36 PM

The first place it was published was in Larry Jennings' book, "The Cardwright." I know it has been published since then--and I'm pretty sure I've published it because I recall Earle Oakes' drawings for it.
Other than that, I'm having a brain freeze!
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Postby cwilcox » 03/07/03 10:27 PM

Don't have the book with me at the moment to check, but isn't the Stuart Gordon double in Cardshark?

CW
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Postby Terry » 03/08/03 05:53 AM

Stuart Gordon double in Cardshark?
Included in trick - Museum Piece, pg 106, 6th paragraph. Stuart Gordon double turnover.
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Postby Ed Oschmann » 03/08/03 11:48 AM

I could be wrong about this but I'm pretty sure that I learned the Gordon double lift from Jenning's '67. The write-up in Cardshark confused me, but the description in the Jenning's book was very accurate.
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Postby Guest » 03/09/03 12:29 PM

I had a brief conversation with DD, in the hotel lobby, when he was in Portland a few years ago. I asked him if he could really do all the tricks in his book. He said no way (not his words, he used an expletive), but he did say that at one time or another he did all of them. He said that he had to practice two weeks to ready his performance for that show. I found DD a friendly person and really enjoyed his performance. Tom (oldguy)
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Postby Guest » 03/09/03 10:07 PM

Ohhh yes! the Dingle book.....Rock on! Years ago I used to get completely lost in my room playing with Starwars figures these days It's the Dingle book. (When I have the time)

All backs with selection.....Oh yea!
Collecters......Rock and roll...They play big for both cardmen and real people alike, this is one of my criteria these days. Why work on perfecting two seperate repotoire? The Dingle book is a pure example of how technically demanding magic can often be quirky, entertaining magic with a little bit of thought, just because they read tough doesn't mean they play tough and are only of interest to the initiated. This book is a true card enthusiasts dream, even if you haven't the balls of brass to perform most of it in public, the material therein makes a great, late night Kitchen table training tool to get those fingers a flicking. If you screw up "Super interchange" There's no-one else around to see it(Apart from the dog and he can't do any of Dingle's stuff anyway))

forgive my ignorance, But did Derek continue to create effects during the time he was somewhat out of the "public+ magic eye" I know that there were videos released a while ago but I have never actually seen them. Do they contain new material?

DeanX

ps Nice cover too. Stylish, simple and elegant. I'm interested...was that a deliberate measure Richard? Reflecting Dingles approach at the time?
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