Hit Double Lift source

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Postby Guest » 11/30/04 04:00 PM

I've had no luck looking through my magic books in finding an explanation of the Hit Double Lift. I've looked in Card College but couldn't find it (is it in there?). I'd appreciate being pointed to a source (or sources) where the Hit Double Lift is explained. Thanks!
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Postby Jim Maloney_dup1 » 11/30/04 04:35 PM

"The Itinerant Pasteboards", Doc Daley, Stars of Magic.

-Jim
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Postby Chris Aguilar » 11/30/04 07:27 PM

Gregory Wilson covers it well on his Doubletake video.

Or check out page 69 of The Card Magic of LePaul.
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Postby Guest » 12/30/04 05:59 PM

It's also coverd in Daryl's Ambitous Card Omnibus by Steve Minch. Its out of print but sometimes sees the light of day on E-bay.

Dave
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Postby Guest » 01/04/05 02:04 PM

The Hit or Strike method does NOT appear in Card College. I too had wondered about this, and at a recent lecture by Jamy Ian Swiss was informed of why it's not in there. He stated that we must remember that while CC is a great learning resource and well written, it is a collection of sleights put together based on Mr Giobbi's tastes. Mr Swiss mentioned that Mr Giobbi does not use a strike method, therefore, it doesn't appear in the books. In other words, the books, while encyclopeidic in nature, aren't meant to be all encompassing of every technique but rather a collection of what Mr Giobbi considers to be the best techniques out there. I too had often thought of them as being all encompassing, but really, how could they be...
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Postby Jon Racherbaumer » 01/04/05 02:55 PM

TO HIT OR NOT TO HIT

An early objection about the Double Lift was the get-ready. One usually had to furtively lift, hoping to get the correct number of cards. Or, worse, had to push over two cards and pull them back, getting a left pinky break underneath them. Neither approach could withstand a burn. In STARS OF MAGIC (1946) Daley said that the get-ready was a serious drawback because it required misdirection. In other words, you had to do it while nobody was lookingwhich really became problematical when one needed to execute successive Double Turnovers. (Think: Paul Harriss quick reflex trick).

Daley called his technique the INSTANTANEOUS DOUBLE LIFT.

If one wants to be niggling about it, the adjective hit suggests that the move was done with a quick, striking movement. Daley had the deck squared but beveled. Then the right index fingertip PRESSED against the beveled side. Next, the cards, once secured by the right thumb and first finger PULLED the card(s) to the right and THEN flipped them over with ONLY the index finger. The card(s) flipped to an injogged position. This made the second turnover easy. When the card(s) were flipped face down, they were to fall flush.

Marlo dubbed this type of Double-Lift Turnover as a hit type. He used it in conjunction with an apparent Change. This was explained in THE CARDICIAN (1953); however, in the credit section at the end of the book (compiled by early Marlo note-taker, Bert Fenn) cites this credit:

Hit Double Turn Over, Chicago, July, 1949.

STARS OF MAGIC came out in 1946 and Daley probably was doing it earlier than 1946.
Marlo was probably doing his version prior to 1949.

There is little difference between the two techniques, except Marlo did not drag the card(s) to the right and then flip them. He also flipped them flush to the deck both times.

Its likely that Daley-Vernon, and the New York sodality raised their eyebrows when they saw the Hit Double Turnover appear in THE CARDICIAN with no mention of the STARS OF MAGIC or Daley? These sort of things were no doubt flash-points in the contentious squabbles that ensued between Marlo and others.

At this stage it is a matter of conjecture that any of this was done deliberately or with a calculated agenda in mind. Marlo detractors, however, claim that it was deliberate and over the years Marlo ripped off everybody. This is an exaggeration and scrupulous examination of the Published Record discloses a large number of offenders and guilty parties.

Bottom Line: Credit Daley with a squared-deck Turnover. Credit Marlo with the term Hit in conjunction with this move.

Personally, I dont care for any variation of this Hit technique, although I appreciate its underlying rationale.

Onward...
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Postby Richard Kaufman » 01/04/05 05:49 PM

Here is a quick description of the Hit Double Lift.
Hold the deck in dealing position in your left hand.
With the base of your left thumb, bevel the deck to the right (i.e., the upper cards are spread farther than the lower cards).
Your right hand, held so the palm is facing to the left, approaches your left hand. Your right first fingertip (the fleshy pad) hits the inner right corner of the deck on the right long side.
Your right first fingertip touches the edge of the top card (made accessible by the bevel). Lift it a HAIR, then curl your finger a bit until it touches the second card and lift it as well. Then curl your finger a bit more and allow the edges of both cards to fall together.
Run your first fingertip, now joined by your second fingertip, up to the center of the right long side. Drag the double card to the right until its left long side meets your left fingertips, then tip it over so it lands face up on the deck.
Questions?
When you become proficient with this technique you can pick up both edges with one "hit" and you won't need to pick them up singly and let them fall together.
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Postby Bill Duncan » 01/04/05 10:10 PM

Thats a great description Richard. The idea of moving the finger along the edge towards the front of the pack as part of the lift is Daryl's isn't it?

All handlings of the strike lift suffer from the same fundamental flaw... no one actually turns cards over like that. Naturalness is sacrificed for speed.

As a side note I learned Reflex from Paul Harris at the old Hades studio in Seattle. He used a push off get ready for each DL. Thats the real genius of the routine... Each lift, its get ready, and the palm at the end are covered by superb script-embedded misdirection. After each card was placed onto the spectators pile his fingers would dance around the packet like John Belushi in Animal House while his dirty hand receded out of frame and he did the get ready.
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Postby Richard Kaufman » 01/04/05 11:07 PM

Bill, the handling I described is part of what I saw Jennings use many times. I don't think he was the first person to slide his right hand forward, however, and it certainly predates Daryl.
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Postby Edwin Corrie » 01/05/05 03:57 AM

Didn't one of Daryl's books talk about holding down the front half of the card with the left second or third fingertip so that the gap wouldn't show from the front? That way you get plenty of cover and can lift up quite a lot with the right finger.
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Postby Jim Maloney_dup1 » 01/05/05 07:39 AM

Originally posted by Richard Kaufman:
Bill, the handling I described is part of what I saw Jennings use many times. I don't think he was the first person to slide his right hand forward, however, and it certainly predates Daryl.
The concept goes back at least to Leipzig. After getting his break at the inner left corner, he would slide his the right thumb from that corner up to about the middle of the left side of the deck. (This is also in Stars of Magic.)

If I remember correctly, Vernon's Double Lift is in Stars of Magic as well, so that's three DL's for the price of one book (not to mention the numerous outstanding routines that it also contains).

-Jim
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Postby Steve Vaught » 01/05/05 03:57 PM

Chaucer, I am glad you brought this up. I was a little disappointed getting Giobbi course #3 and discovering no "hit double lift". That is what I wanted to learn at the time. I learned somewhere that I had the explanation of it the whole time ... Stars of Magic. Richard K. did a wonderful job explaining the "move", but if you would like to purchase books, what helped me learn this sleight was the book prior mentioned and "The Card Magic of LePaul". The LePaul book show pictures
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Postby Bill Duncan » 01/06/05 12:04 AM

Edwin nailed it. I learned the lift from the early Daryl books and I'm sure I was thinking of the hold down and just got my wires crossed.

Again, even with these additions, it's a less than optimal technique.

Building a DL that can be burned means neglecting what makes a DL invisible instead.

Try the Nash or Oritz techniques or Steve Draun's work on the Krenzel natural lift. All are better alternatives.
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Postby Richard Kaufman » 01/06/05 09:41 AM

I'm going to tip a sleight from "Mr. Jennings Takes It Easy." There are no illustrations, but you'll get the idea.
Essentially (and this is by no means the full description which will appear in the book), your left thumb slides the top card of the deck a HAIR to the LEFT as the right first finger approaches the center of the right long side. You are, in essence, moving the top card's edge out of the way by a HAIR. Your right first finger now contacts the single edge of the second card and lifts it--just one card to lift here! Your right thumb lands on top of the deck and the top TWO cards are dragged to the right. They align as they are tipped over face up onto the deck.
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Postby Ian Kendall » 01/06/05 09:51 AM

Damn - I tried that a few times just now, and each time I got a triple...

Ah, ok. Another couple of shots and I'm on doubles.

Eye thangoo!

Take care, Ian
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Postby Richard Kaufman » 01/06/05 12:18 PM

You must still bevel the deck prior to doing the lift. Then you won't get a triple.
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Postby Guest » 01/06/05 01:18 PM

Thank you...I always liked your descriptions.
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Postby Ian Kendall » 01/06/05 01:42 PM

Thanks Richard,

I did bevel the deck, but I'm so used to picking up two cards in a hit type lift that I found it very hard not to when the top card was drawn back.

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Postby Jim Maloney_dup1 » 01/06/05 01:45 PM

Yeah, I had the same problem, Ian. I like the idea, though, so I may work with it some more.

-Jim
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Postby Matthew Field » 01/07/05 03:37 AM

Richjard -- the Jennings Hit Double variant is wonderful. Now just post the rest of "Mr. Jennings Takes it Easy" here one piece at a time, if you don't mind.

Two other nice Double Lifts, of the Push-Off rather than Hit variety, are those by Bro. John Hamman (in "Secrets of Bro. John Hamman") and Steve Draun's absolutely amazing Double (in "Secrets Draun from Underground). Both books, of course, written by the Head Genii.

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Postby Matthew Field » 01/07/05 03:40 AM

And while I'mn at it, there is a whole chapter devoted to fabulous Double Lifts, including Hit variants and an absolutely startling Tabled Double Lift in Anthony Brahams recently published "Close Up Elegance" by Davide Costi.

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Postby Guest » 01/07/05 09:57 AM

Mr. Swiss has a beautiful strike double. You can (NOT) see it on the monday night magic video clips at www.mondaynightmagic.com
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Postby Guest » 01/08/05 03:19 PM

Years ago someone taught me a DL that pushes over two cards with just the thumb, no beveling and the right hand takes them in what looks like a very normal manner at the upper RH corner. The secret work is done by touch with the ring and middle finger of your left hand which with practice can feel two cards plus your RH thumb is kept at the lower RH corner which keeps them registered. The bad news it is all touch but if you invest the time there is nothing out there (my opinion) that looks as natural. Also if you tilt the deck just a little bit it is totally invisible.
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Postby Leonard Hevia » 01/13/05 04:34 PM

This is a fascinating thread. I first learned the Daley Double through my copy of Stars of Magic many years ago. The Double Lift is a move that requires a long time (a lifetime perhaps?)to really master. I still get three cards every so often on the Daley Lift. Gently riffling the deck on the back with your right thumb before the move helps to put a few molecules of air between the cards to prevent sticking. The Daryl dodge with the left second finger to hold those two cards down as much as possible on the right side is wonderful. His Ambitious Card book is wonderful.

Thanks to Richard for tipping that Jennings technique to ensure that only two cards go off. I suppose that a triple hit lift can be acquired with the Jennings technique by pushing off two cards slightly and attacking the third.

In spite of other great double lifts such as Vernon's double and Roger Klause's soft double, I've always returned to the Daley lift because Poker sized cards are a stretch for my small hands to lock that double with the left thumb and second/third finger. God bless Dr. Daley... :)
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Postby Guest » 03/18/05 08:34 AM

If you're looking for a source for strike doubles, don't forget Martin Nash's incredible strike stud double (which is, I believe, what Jamy Swiss - mentioned by S_Ocean - is still using). As I recall, it's in the second book of the Nash trilogy (which is, unfortunately, long out of print).

In addition, there's a set of lecture notes out by a magician by the last name of White (if I were in my magic library I could look up his first name) from Texas. There is a strike double described in there that Mr. Swiss once told me was the best he's seen.

But all of that aside, the _real_ problem with doubles is that they aren't conducive to holding the card(s) up so that an audience can see them...

Chris
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Postby Guest » 03/18/05 08:42 AM

Originally posted by Matthew Field:
And while I'mn at it, there is a whole chapter devoted to fabulous Double Lifts, including Hit variants and an absolutely startling Tabled Double Lift in Anthony Brahams recently published "Close Up Elegance" by Davide Costi.

Matt Field
Hey Matt,

Get Mike Vincent to show you his fabulous double handling when your next at The Magic Circle. Real smooth .....
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Postby Richard Kaufman » 03/18/05 08:56 AM

There are a number of double lifts in Cliff Green's book that he used on platform work for many years.
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Postby Jonathan Townsend » 03/18/05 08:56 AM

Originally posted by Ivanovich:
...But all of that aside, the _real_ problem with doubles is that they aren't conducive to holding the card(s) up so that an audience can see them...
Agreed. Once one takes the audience into account, a different kind of procedure is almost I went after that issue while working on the card trick called "Now!" and other material developed at that time.

Oddly, the double lift itself addresses this issue. It's the recent fascination with the double turnover that may have misdirected so many cardmen.
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Postby Guest » 03/18/05 09:32 AM

""But all of that aside, the _real_ problem with doubles is that they aren't conducive to holding the card(s) up so that an audience can see them...
""

Chris, I have actually adapted the strike double a bit to allow for "holding or lifting" for audience views. It requires newer cards, but it is adaptable.

Also, I guess the question is, who are you playing for? Close up or stage? The double's fine when its used close up, imho.

I use a double for Luke Jermay's RGM followed by a normal lift. I have tried to mimmick the movemet of the double to match that of a my single, but no one ever questions it because the double is being shown to a single individual while the single is shown to the audience as a whole. Why show a double on stage or to more then one?
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Postby Danny Archer » 03/18/05 02:07 PM

Richard's original description is very good ... for me I use the pad of my second finger when doing the strike double ... I have also found that applying slight pressure with the left thumb helps also ...
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Postby sam_scott10 » 07/17/13 06:18 AM

hey i read you were having trouble with the double lift. -_- its such a pain to try get the hang of but i think time and practice is really all you need. Although i learned the double lift here on this website and it was pretty good. i don't know if you want check it out or not.

http://magicdownunder.com/double-lift/
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Postby erdnasephile » 07/17/13 07:52 AM

Since this Zombie thread lives once more, I'll mention that JIS's chapter on the double lift in Devious Standards is an extremely useful resource.

I use a variant of Nash's Knock-Out double, as well as Bob White's Flash double for particular applications.

I am also keen to get Mr. Racherbaumer's recent manuscript on unloading that double.
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Postby AnthonyBrahams » 07/23/13 02:24 PM

Ross Bertram has some excellent Double Lifts in the Magic Ltd. books, especially the one also on page 43 in David Ben's "Tricks" (a great book).
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Postby El Mystico » 07/29/13 12:44 PM

Oh, this thread reminds me how this forum used to be; until Certain People left, and Certain People joined...
One aspect of the hit double lift is, that frankly, it looks unnatural.
But - it is an issue that Dai 'Mr Natural' Vernon addressed in the third edition of Expert Card Technique.
Ahem...so old it's new...
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Postby Doug Conn » 07/29/13 05:41 PM

Thanks for that "tip" Richard
That's a nice finesse that reads like butter. Ill enjoy toying with the technique (I'm not a fan of the hit/strike, but I think it might have other used: especially with small packets) anyway; tx
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Postby seraph127 » 08/25/13 03:55 PM

Richard Kaufman wrote:Here is a quick description of the Hit Double Lift.
Hold the deck in dealing position in your left hand.
With the base of your left thumb, bevel the deck to the right (i.e., the upper cards are spread farther than the lower cards).
Your right hand, held so the palm is facing to the left, approaches your left hand. Your right first fingertip (the fleshy pad) hits the inner right corner of the deck on the right long side.
Your right first fingertip touches the edge of the top card (made accessible by the bevel). Lift it a HAIR, then curl your finger a bit until it touches the second card and lift it as well. Then curl your finger a bit more and allow the edges of both cards to fall together.
Run your first fingertip, now joined by your second fingertip, up to the center of the right long side. Drag the double card to the right until its left long side meets your left fingertips, then tip it over so it lands face up on the deck.
Questions?
When you become proficient with this technique you can pick up both edges with one "hit" and you won't need to pick them up singly and let them fall together.


This sounds a lot like the method described in The Card Magic of Le Paul.
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