Restored in the future?

All beginners in magic should address their questions here.

Postby Guest » 04/25/06 06:31 PM

Hello,
My name is Lennart, I'm 18, and I'm from Holland. I'm doing magic for 1,5 years and I came up with a effect:

You borrow a deck...
....A spectator picks a card and signs it....
..the magician tears the signed card in 4 pieces in front of their eyes....the signature is in plain view the whole time....they see the signature gets ripped up....

THEY CAN EVEN RIP THE (REGULAR) SIGNED CARD THEMSELF...they can rip it into 12 pieces ...doesn't matter.....

The pieces (really the pieces with signature on it) are thrown in a river or so ....water where things can float away....
The pieces float away....

What I maybe will say is something crazy like this:
----------------------------------------------
"well <NAME>, You probably won't believe me but....I know from a secret source that in the future....The faaaar future...A boy called Juko (or whatever crazy name), will find this pieces......All of them...weird hae.....they will stay together....
In that specific time area ...the future....there are machines that could fix that card and that signature......and they can clean it up allmost perfectly...."

"Now..in this time.... in Uganda....there's a secret society who's carrying a big secret...
They got a source that's connected with the future.....
In the future it will be possible to travel through time....
Scientists from the future have settled here, in this time...a 'warp-wall'...in a cave in Uganda.....
It's guarded by that society, which is called the Ungawunga society, cause nobody should know this.....It will be a chaos.....They only use the time-system for communication and sometimes to transport things through time....I don't know all about it but...
I'm lucky to be part of that society and I shouldn't tell you this...I just want to show you that this is true....

What I said about the boy hae.....
the pieces found in the future?...which are restored and healed in the future....?

they have allready been send through the time-warp....
Well I can't tell you exactly how this is done....I won't break the rules....

You don't believe me hae....

Well I will tell you this....The restored card is allready back from the future through the time warp......allready been put in your wallet 2 weeks ago behind the zipper compartement....you didn't noticed hae...."

-----------------------------------------------

Now ...you tell them to look....and they will find the restored signed card, behind the zipper compartment, folded up...in their wallet.....with of course their signature on it....

And remember...you borrow the deck.and they only sign it ONCE.One signatureNot another signature in another trick before ..NoOne signature.one card..teared up..thrown in de riverrestored in the spectators wallet


Now what I wanted to know.this is actually a question to any master-magician who knows all about magic: ..Is this already possible? Are there already any methods for that effect?..or is this completely new and still impossible to do?.
Guest
 

Postby Guest » 04/25/06 08:12 PM

Oh man. That sounds totally cool. I really want to learn this.

Will you have a DVD coming out soon?


... oh, sorry. I thought this was The Magic Cafe.

Nevermind.

:)
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Postby Guest » 04/26/06 01:45 AM

Originally posted by Bill Duncan:
... oh, sorry. I thought this was The Magic Cafe.
:D :D :D

Dave
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Postby Guest » 04/26/06 08:09 AM

a possible way could be to have duplicate signatures.....I'm no saying this is the secret...

But is there allready a way to obtain duplicate signatures without having them sign something twice....

So is there a way to copy an unique signature....so the exact same signature will appear on a different card?

Question to all the pro magicians....
Guest
 

Postby Guest » 04/26/06 10:24 AM

It's one of those "too perfect" effects, where the premises and outcome are so ridiculous that it suggests the method.

That is - even if you didn't use a stooge, most people would believe that you did use a stooge, which ruins the effect in the spectator's minds.
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Postby Guest » 04/26/06 01:31 PM

not if you let the audience choose the spectator....
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Postby Guest » 04/26/06 10:25 PM

Lennart,
The problem is that for every bit of overt proof you present in an illusion you help to destroy the illusion you are creating It reminds the audience that you are fooling, them by showing them how you are not fooling them.

The best proofs are ones that are subtle and dont seem to be proving anything. Things the spectators notice themselves when trying to backtrack the method, rather than things the wonder about.

Often having a card signed leads (some) laymen to thing you must be able to duplicate their signature. Youll never be able to provide a proof that will prevent some people from coming up with a method, no matter how outrageous it is, but you can avoid doing things which MAKE them suspicious.

John Carney is fond of telling a story about his mentor doing the old marked coin in ball of wool trick at a county fair. When he unrolled the ball of wool and revealed that the marked coin was (really) inside he asked the spectator to confirm that the marked coin was his.

The man said it wasnt.

But it really WAS.

After the show the magician asked the man why he had said it wasnt his coin, since he could see the mark he had scratched into it was still there. The man said You asked me if it was my coin. And I know that what you did is impossible so even though it looks like my coin, I know it cant be and Im not going to lie for you.

Lots of magicians have done Card in Orange with a duplicate card, and gotten great reactions, because they didnt invite the audience to suspect a duplicate card in their handling and presentation.

Instead of finding methods that are impossible try to focus on creating the IDEA that what you did is impossible.
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Postby Guest » 04/27/06 04:37 AM

Sour grapes aside, let us know if you have something ready to perform.

A signature duplication gaff was sold some time ago but has not caught on as practical. Others have likely used NCP paper type things to do this, but again, has not caught on.

Best to you, and hope to see something fun when you get it ready.
Guest
 

Postby Guest » 04/29/06 02:10 PM

Where can I find that gaff....
I really want to know if my idea is new....
Guest
 

Postby Guest » 04/29/06 08:07 PM

Originally posted by Lennart Konst:
Where can I find that gaff....
I really want to know if my idea is new....
The basic premise discussed goes back as far as the old advice to save old signed selections for later use.

As to methods of duplicating signatures... there are some pretty good ones out there. Mentalists have been working on subtle ways to get information duplicated for later revelation for a very long time.

What specifically do you wish to claim as novel in your work? A playing card face backed by NCR or carbon paper that writes onto a dupe? A deck of such card pairs?
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Postby Guest » 04/29/06 08:29 PM

All the names (NCR, carbon paper)....I don't know what that is...I'm from Holland you know...
Could you please explain to me how the methods worked?
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Postby Guest » 04/29/06 09:11 PM

In business context, rather than fill in a form several times another approach is taken which till recently was used for credit card charge forms.

Simplest example is a two part form. The two identical forms are stuck together at the top edge and between them a sheet is placed which is saturated in dye or carbon particles on the down facing side. When the user presses down with their pen on the top form, pressure puts the second and third sheets into forced contact leaving an identical mark on the lower (third) sheet which serves as a copy of the upper form.

There have been some technological advances on the nature of the carbon/ink/chemistry of the pressure trans erred image. For example, NCR paper, N(o) C(arbon) R(equired) has no extra layers as the dye is embedded into the lower facing surface of all but the the bottom form copy in the set.

Hope this gets the ideas across without tipping anyone's applications.
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Postby Guest » 05/01/06 02:58 PM

ow ok...yeah that was one method where I was thinking about..

Is there any other method?
Guest
 

Postby Guest » 05/01/06 05:13 PM

Have you considered putting as much thought into the final effect as you seem to be putting into simply meeting some particular conditions?
Guest
 

Postby Guest » 05/01/06 05:14 PM

Originally posted by Lennart Konst:
ow ok...yeah that was one method where I was thinking about..

Is there any other method?
um... yes :D a few.
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Postby Guest » 05/01/06 05:33 PM

I would like to know how they work....
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Postby Guest » 05/03/06 01:51 PM

Even if you found some perfect method for performing this effect, when and where would you ever perform it??? You need a duplicate signature, a stolen and replaced wallet (in which you've loaded a card under their noses), and a large body of water (with a current fast enough to take away the pieces of the selection before the dupe is revealed!). There are plenty of torn and restored plots to pick from (or improve upon if you feel it necessary). Even with a perfect method, your torn and restored plot will not differ seriously from the spectator's perception of other TNR plots. Your suggestion that methods other than a dupe are possible though, that's just silly. If the spectator tears up the card while looking at his own signature and there's no dupe?? Are you suggesting that you actually tear and then actually resore the card? If you can do that then I assure you you have the rest of the forum beaten and you should start your own religion immediately. :)
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Postby Guest » 05/04/06 01:08 AM

There have been a couple of methods marketed. One that I remember was very costly. But we can't tell you how they work, because it wouldn't be right. These methods belong to the guys that created them.

A torn corner is a much simpler and cleaner method. It's not as perfect, but it convinces the spectator that it's the same card.
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Postby Guest » 05/04/06 03:50 PM

haha ok I confess....of course it needs a dupe...but I think if you pull the whole thing off....it will be a killer-effect....cause it's so impossible to them....

what you also could do, is flush the pieces through the toilet...or if you are outside, you can give the pieces to a passenger on the street, like here take this with you.....there are a lot of ways to get rid of the pieces....

I understand you can't tell me the methods.
but could someone please tell me where I can find the methods to buy them or so....
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Postby Guest » 05/04/06 03:54 PM

I really want to know how they all work
cause if I maybe release a dvd with my methods on it....it must be new of course...

my methods are not very costly by the way...
Guest
 

Postby Guest » 05/04/06 04:03 PM

Things go so much better when you offer tricks you perform and have been doing long enough to have worked all the fine details.

Magic that really works is valuable.

Ideas are... not usually so useful or valuable.
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Postby Guest » 05/04/06 04:07 PM

I think my ideas are useful....
But I must work the details out indeed..

so all of the methods now available are unuseful?
where can I find them...
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Postby Guest » 05/04/06 05:42 PM

Has anyone else gotten an alarm and flashing light from their b******t detector yet?

This whole thread seems so cozy and bogus. :rolleyes:
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Postby Guest » 05/04/06 07:06 PM

We haven't gotten to the paypal offer for the manuscript, the secret initiation rites or the DVD release yet.
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Postby Guest » 05/05/06 08:01 AM

Originally posted by Steve Hook:
Has anyone else gotten an alarm and flashing light from their b******t detector yet?

This whole thread seems so cozy and bogus. :rolleyes:
It's just a typical cafe type thread that has wended its way over here.
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Postby Guest » 05/05/06 08:18 AM

Originally posted by Chris Aguilar:
...It's just a typical cafe type thread that has wended its way over here.
The truly sad part is that most have not read Expert Card Technique, so pointing them to the first trick in the Stranger Card Section would not help.
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Postby Guest » 05/06/06 08:28 PM

ok I now found a way to do the effect 'restored in the future'...

now they can sign the card and immediately rip the card up.....I never touched the cards ....they rip their own signature..

and then you can restore them or throw them in the river or so....

I don't lie....

so should I start my own religion or should I just sell it....
Guest
 

Postby Guest » 05/06/06 08:48 PM

Originally posted by Lennart Konst:
ok I now found a way to do the effect 'restored in the future'...

....

I don't lie....

so should I start my own religion or should I just sell it....
Ah, the other shoe drops.
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Postby Guest » 05/06/06 09:32 PM

Originally posted by Lennart Konst:
ok I now found a way to do the effect 'restored in the future'...so should I start my own religion or should I just sell it....
Doing the thing for muggles and letting them enjoy the magic is a great start.

When you are sure it works... time to do your research and get the thing reviewed by "peers". In this case try folks who have explored the subject extensively and would know if your method and approach are new. Then, if your work is new, enjoy the acclaim of magicdom and have a great time at conventions and lectures.

A little bit of good news for you: those who truly do care about this stuff are also good about keeping secrets, so is okay to ask them and explain your work.
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Postby Guest » 05/07/06 11:19 AM

Originally posted by Lennart Konst:
I really want to know how they all work
cause if I maybe release a dvd with my methods on it....it must be new of course...
Lennart,
If you haven't been doing the thing long enough to have all the answers you are asking for, then it is WAY TOO SOON to be thinking about selling it.

There are far too many unfinished tricks on the market already. Spend a couple of years working on this, show it to some people you trust and to as many laymen as you can find who will sit still long enought to watch. Ask the laymen what they think.

Pay attention to what they say.

Then, take the best ideas, observations and feedback and sell it to Cris Angel or David Blaine for a TV special.
Guest
 

Postby Guest » 05/07/06 02:09 PM

how much can I get for that
Guest
 

Postby Guest » 05/07/06 03:19 PM

Originally posted by Lennart Konst:
how much can I get for that
*sigh*
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Postby Guest » 05/07/06 03:25 PM

Originally posted by Lennart Konst:
how much can I get for that
Older and wiser.

Go for the wiser.
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Postby Guest » 05/07/06 04:10 PM

Originally posted by Jonathan Townsend:

Doing the thing for muggles
JT:

I thought there was a gentleman's agreement at Genii Forum last year to not use the lame m-word?

If there isn't, there should be.
:D
Guest
 

Postby Guest » 05/07/06 04:17 PM

Originally posted by Lennart Konst:
how much can I get for that
I still say we're getting played by "Lennart Konst". Richard, is he actually emailing from The Netherlands? Idaho? Toronto?

The good news: Each post is getting funnier and funnier.
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Postby Guest » 05/07/06 04:30 PM

seriously... don't you guys know what the Netherlands is....Holland man....Europe you know...Amsterdam...coffeeshops...

yeah that little country....and I don't lie..
for how much can I sell it to David and Chriss?
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Postby Guest » 05/07/06 04:58 PM

Nice troll.

If not, yeesh.
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Postby Guest » 05/07/06 05:01 PM

no serious
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Postby Guest » 05/07/06 05:50 PM

Originally posted by Steve Hook:
...I thought there was a gentleman's agreement at Genii Forum last year to not use the lame m-word?...
When magicdom spawns an author as widely read as J. K. Rowling to offer a perspective and some language for that topic... we will have more options.

Till then the ball is in her court and the word is hers.

Back on topic, yes Lennart some of us know where your country is we have folks like Tommy Wonder and Dan LeFay to thank for keeping it on our map.
Guest
 

Postby Guest » 05/07/06 05:55 PM

Guys do you believe me or do you think I'm bulling...ow and Jonathan ...you speak very difficult English (for me)....you are the only Englishman I just can't understand...
Guest
 

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