Knife through coat routine

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Postby Guest » 03/01/04 03:44 AM

Can anyone recommend a good knife through coat routine?
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Postby Guest » 03/01/04 10:12 AM

One of the newer routines is David Groves' "Knife Through the Coat". I think David is a member of this forum. Do a search on "Groves" and send him an email...

Brian B
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Postby Pete Biro » 03/01/04 10:35 AM

The BEST I have ever seen is Glenn Haywood's... you have to really dig to find it. I think he originally learned it from Steve Shepherd in the 1940s.

Steve Gokee had a variation that was great too, but required some heavy setup.

Send me an email: petebiro@aol.com and I can tip the method.

90% of it is sell.
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Postby James » 03/01/04 12:12 PM

My pesonal favorite is Bob Read's. He has the routine in print in either his lecture notes or as a seperate manuscript. Maybe also in his Thanks to Pepys (SP) book. No gimmicks - practically do anywhere anytime.

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Postby Guest » 03/02/04 03:56 AM

I always liked Harrison's 'Spear-it" knife thru coat put out by magic dealers in the 40's. First the blade goes thru the coat and then the whole knife goes thru. Because the blade really does go thru the borrowed coat in this routine, you have to pick the spectator with the right suit material.
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Postby Guest » 04/15/04 11:42 PM

I have to agree with the writer that mentioned David David Groves Knife Thru Coat. I went to Denny's site and the following is what Denny wrote about it. It moght be worth contacting Denny direct to get yours.

This is really a classic. If you have seen Bob Read or Mike Caveney perform this routine then you will know the entertainment value you can get from this routine. Although this routine is very similar to the Bob Read handling (credit is given) there are some extra touches to it to make it worth getting a hold of. If you do not do a knife through coat routine, here's a good chance to learn one. The use of a "target" as opposed to only a sheet of newspaper is very good. Basically, you borrow a spectator's coat and plunge a knife through the coat from the back to the front. Very convincing. Only one knife (ungaffed) is used. You can do this anytime, and under almost all conditions. You could actually borrow a kitchen knife and do this. It will take a bit of practice in regards to timing but it is basically an easy to perform miracle. 11 page spiral bound manuscript, clip gimmick, and 3 paper "targets."

David's Prediction in the Shoe might also be worth checking out

Hope this helps

Ken
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Postby Jim Riser » 04/16/04 01:08 AM

About 35-40 years ago a version of knife through coat was briefly advertised in Genii Magazine. It was Jan's Knife Through Coat. As I recall it was $50 at the time and came with a "gem stone" handled knife. I have heard that it was a great method/routine. Is anyone familiar with this version?
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Postby Jim Riser » 04/16/04 01:09 AM

About 35-40 years ago a version of knife through coat was briefly advertised in Genii Magazine. It was Jan's Knife Through Coat. As I recall it was $50 at the time and came with a "gem stone" handled knife. I have heard that it was a great method/routine. Is anyone familiar with this version?
Jim
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Postby Guest » 04/16/04 01:00 PM

Thanks for the kind words about my Knife Thru the Coat routine.

I learned Knife thru the Coat on the street in the mid '90s, performing it 10 - 15 times a night for months and months. It was Gazzo who recommended that I learn it. He said it worked well on the street.

Over the next couple years, and over hundreds of performances, I refined the moves, incorporated a number of details, and finally, came up with my own innovation: the target. After all, there's no real motivation to use a sheet of sheet of newspaper in front of the jacket. The target solves that problem.

My version fits my own personality and approach to magic: Use gimmicked items as little as possible, and keep it as economical as possible, both in terms of props and finances. My Knife thru the Coat is the most economical of the major versions out there.

As far as gimmicks, some of them are quite nice. The one by Hocus Pocus is real neat, with a magnet that is so strong that it can be handed out for examination. However, when I looked it over, there were two problems with it.

One, the knife was far too sharp, and in the animated movements that we adopt onstage, one could predict eventually cutting oneself.

And two, when I looked at it, the piece of protruding metal separating the blade from the handle was attached to the wrong end. If that knife were thrust through a jacket, that piece of metal wouldn't be on the outside. It's a logical inconsistency. I don't know if they've fixed this problem yet; check it out.

I learned the trick from Bob Read's lecture notes at the Magic Castle library, which were bare bones, to say the least. Bob is a genius, but there were few details in the explanation I read.

The trick goes way back. Bob Read mentioned that it was a common pub trick that went way back, and I haven't read anything further about its origins. They may be lost in history; I'm not an historian.

My version may be available from Denny & Lee's, but I don't know. If you have trouble finding it, you can always contact me at shakkespeare@aol.com. I don't offer any discounts over Denny, though. And he ships out much faster. And I can't handle credit cards.

When I wrote up the manuscript for KTTC, I put a lot of energy into describing the exact moment when you perform the sleight. It's a 1.5-second moment, and I go into great detail on it--where your eyes are, where each hand is, what your attitude is, etc. I used to be a journalist, so it's very clear.

I must emphasize that, although there are a couple gimmicks included in my version, they're common objects that can be refilled easily. Some people are disappointed that they don't get some whizbang gimmick. But hey, gimmicks break and get lost. I want gimmicks that can be easily replaced.

These days, I love Knife thru the Coat, and perform it whenever I can. However, my real excitement these days comes from using it as cover to steal a large object and produce it at the end of the trick. Spectators' coats act as great cover for big production items, whatever those might be.
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Postby Guest » 04/16/04 01:36 PM

The ungimmicked version really is the best way to go. I learned it from Bob Read's book although I haven't done it for years.
There is a very good description of the stunt in Ken Brooke's book "The Unique Years"
I think Ken must have sold his version at one time.
Ungimmicked.
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Postby Guest » 05/28/06 05:22 PM

Does anybody know how far back this plot goes? I'm a big fan of the Bob Read routine. So far, the earliest reference I can find (albeit in my small library) is John Ward's version, published in Chap's Scrapbook, in 1939.

In Wards description, the jacket was hung over the back of a chair.

Also, David Groves mentions he innovated the use of a target instead of using a sheet of newspaper, but I believe Wayne Dobson was using a bull's-eye target for the effect in the late 1980s.

Either way, its a great piece of magic.
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Postby NCMarsh » 05/29/06 04:53 AM

I'm surprised by how early your reference is...I had always assumed that the knife through coat grew out of Emil Jarrow's "Hanky Panky"...with someone saying "this is a great trick, how can i make it more entertaining?...ah, replace the cigarette with a knife and the handkerchief with a borrowed coat..."

Best,

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Postby Pete Biro » 05/29/06 08:09 AM

JIm: Jan was really Steve Gokee. His was great, hard to do. Swing magnet for cleanup. Big, big blade. I had one but sold it.

I learned the Steve Shepherd version from Glenn Haywood which I market through Stevens.

It also included the Ken Brooke handling.
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Postby Guest » 06/15/06 11:04 AM

Originally posted by Martin Perry:
...Also, David Groves mentions he innovated the use of a target instead of using a sheet of newspaper, but I believe Wayne Dobson was using a bull's-eye target for the effect in the late 1980s.

Either way, its a great piece of magic...
I wasn't aware of Dobson's use of a target. It was actually Steve Valentine (awesome magician now on CROSSING JORDAN) who told me that my target was an original innovation, and Steve is originally from London.
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Postby Guest » 06/15/06 12:21 PM

A local (bay area) guy was using a bb gun target rather than a sheet of paper here early 80's at least. Kinda of logical and he never published it etc just did it.
Steve V
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Postby Guest » 06/15/06 02:20 PM

there is a link to a clip of Wayne Dobson, on his website

http://www.waynedobson.co.uk/
choose DTRIK MAGIC RANGE

5 items down, advert for the DVD
- Dobson's Choice: TV Stuff Volume 2
-LINK
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Postby Mark Collier » 06/15/06 04:41 PM

The name has slipped my mind but I bought a Knife Thru Coat in the 1980's that used a BB gun target. It used two throwing knives one of which was hidden in an emboidery hoop and then covered with the target
I remember the guy, tall, thin, long dark wavy hair, had some other items on the market. I thik his last name started with P.
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Postby Guest » 06/15/06 08:06 PM

David Powell
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Postby Mark Collier » 06/15/06 10:26 PM

Exactly. Thank you.
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Postby Guest » 06/16/06 03:58 AM

Originally posted by Brendan_Kirk:
there is a link to a clip of Wayne Dobson, on his website

http://www.waynedobson.co.uk/
choose DTRIK MAGIC RANGE

5 items down, advert for the DVD
- Dobson's Choice: TV Stuff Volume 2
-LINK
Yes, I really like that routine, it's fun, its fast and it impacts. Great stand up routine for any show. Easy to do - and that makes it even greater. First time around nobody notices what happens, and since you only show it once - you are home free.

Have to say I haven't seen the other versions, but Wayne Dobson's routine has just about the amount of fun that suits my character - except I would not go into the "fake speaking part" (don't know what thats called in English when you fake the other persons answer and voice). I like the part of holding the target in front of your head, and bringing it down low.
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Postby Guest » 07/26/06 10:59 AM

Just found my old Dave Powell Knife through Coat.

Look for it on the collectors for sale section.

Stickley
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Postby Pete Biro » 07/26/06 11:40 AM

Dobson's routine is very entertaining, stright forward and I like it... much like the Ken Brooke handling but with the added bits with the target.
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Postby Guest » 07/28/06 09:36 AM

Tony Clark has a fine impromptu version.
Bob Taxin
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