Linking Rings

Discuss your favorite platform magic and illusions.

Postby Steve Vaught » 03/11/03 08:26 PM

I wanted to see if someone could help on the forum. I have the "Brad Burt Teaching Video" on the set of 8 rings. I also have the Whit Haydn comedy routine. I will be doing several outdoor shows this summer. I want to end my show with a Linking Ring Routine to music. I have cancelled out Mr. Haydin's routine because of so much audience participation and I dont like using all 8 rings. I am looking for a routine that will employ
1)few rings as possible
2)audience examine
3) something I can perform for the most part silent with music in the back.

Someone recommended the Richard Ross book. Those in the "know", does his routine meet my restrictions?
Thank you for your response
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Postby Pete Biro » 03/11/03 08:38 PM

Get Dai Vernon's Symphony of the Rings... uses six rings and works very well silent to music.

I use five rings, single, key and three joined. This way I can link/unlink with single and key, and do figures with the key and three linked.

Passing rings out? I only hand the 3 linked out to see if spec can get apart.

I think examining rings is old fashioned and a bit of a waste of time... if doing to music, how do you time it??

You could also do Koran's routine with 3 rings, 1 key and two singles.... music is fine, but no examining sequences.

Richard Ross book is excellent but I believe only three rings.

Let us know what you wind up doing.

I hope you are proficient with rings already, it takes a long time to be convincing.

I have been doing my five ring routine since 1950.
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Postby Anthony Brahams » 03/12/03 02:24 AM

1. Ken Brooke sold a routine for three rings.

2. Also good, Chris Capehart's 3-ring routine in Stars of Magic, later releases.
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Postby Pete Biro » 03/12/03 06:20 AM

The Ken Brooke routine was Al Koran's (Stevensmagic.com) still has the manuscripts. He's out of the jumbo rings, but any set of three will work. The 12 inch Owen rings are superb. (Lightweight and last several lifetimes).
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Postby Steve Vaught » 03/12/03 08:58 AM

Thanks for all of the input.
Mr. Biro, I was just looking at the card rise in the Tarbell Course. I am considering adding that to my repretoire at the restaurant. I am using a couple of effects with a pencil. I wanted to stay on that "Pencil" theme. Also using Paul Rosini's effect with pencil and half dollar.
...anyway...
(I think examining rings is old fashioned) Wouldn't that be the "convincer", that the audience can see there are no openings.
I want to have a classy ending to my outdoor family shows with music.
As I type I am looking at L&L Publishing. They are advertising Vol.4 of Revelations video's has The Symphony of the Rings. Do you Mr. Biro or anyone else know if this covers the complete routine in detail.
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Postby David Oliver » 03/12/03 10:00 AM

Steve -

I have to agree with Pete and Anthony with regards to Vernon's Symphony and Chris Capehart's routines. I have seen many people do the Symphony over the years (some did it justice, some just hacked away at it), and the structure of the routine is such that they always got a great response no matter the performer (not sure if that is good or bad for us?!). Luckily for me, I have been priviledged to watch Mr. Capehart in person doing his rings, and it is also a phenominal routine. If you get the chance to ever see him - go!

As for the Richard Ross routine using three rings. It does... and it also uses six. The book "Richard Ross - The Ring Routine" (1982 - Manfred Thumm, The Magic Hands) has two routines. One for three rings, and the other for six. Both are intended to be done silent to music, with a couple of touches that allow some audience interaction if the situation allows. Although my early attempts at doing the rings were with the Symphony, the silent routine I have been performing since 1982 is based on the Ross three-ring routine. I am quite happy with the results, and have been able to do it in virtually any performing situation (inside, outside, surrounded, etc.).

While you're still researching, check out the newly released "Lord and Master of the Rings" DVD by Jim Cellini. Cellini is known for being one of the best street performers ever. His ring routine is second to none (and being a street performer, you know it can be done out of doors). It is performed silently to music, only uses two rings, and there are moves in his routine that I have never seen anyone else do. The rings literally MELT through one another during MULTIPLE passes - not just in a move here and there. (I saw Jonathan Neal do his own beautiful 2 ring routine at the Castle in the early 80's with thick gold-colored rings, and I don't remember how similar the two routines may be. Mr. Biro?) The Cellini DVD is very well done, and the moves are clearly taught by Cellini. Some friends and I had the opportunity to spend some time with Cellini a couple of years back, and he did his rings for us - again and again. Pure genius.

Hope this helps.

- David Oliver
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Postby Guest » 03/12/03 10:32 AM

One of the magic teach-in videos (Stevens?) has routines from Richard Ross, Jay Marshall, and two other pros whom I cannot recall at the moment. The Ross routine is the 3 ring, if I recall correctly.

There is a very nice 3 ring routine in Lewis Ganson's ART OF CLOSE-UP MAGIC (Vol. 1, I think). It is based upon moves from Vernon's Symphony of the Rings. It is designed to use large rings in close-up, but I have done it for large audiences very successfully (adding two moves of my own, but adding no extra rings). It will work well to music, and can be timed out very easily, as there is no audience touching of the rings. The Ganson books are in fresh print now from L&L, and I am told that they are much superior to the earlier Supreme editions that most of us have on our shelves.

Jon
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Postby Steve Vaught » 03/12/03 12:13 PM

Thanks for responding so thoughtfully!
You have given me several ways to go.
I have been performing Whit Haydin's comedy routine for a couple of years. I thoroughly enjoyed the routine. But, I am limited on magic for outside & surrounded. I have an opening but I am wanting a nice classy closing w/ music. OK I know I'm repeating myself. I will probably go the Mr. Vernon's routine.
Thanks again
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Postby Guest » 03/13/03 09:48 PM

Check out the routine taught by Dan Harlan at the end of his Rubberband man Video. It uses Two rings and Two ropes from a set of linking ropes.
I have been thinking about using it myself. It would be fantastic set to music.
Good luck,
Ronald R. Romiski
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Postby Guest » 03/14/03 09:32 AM

The linking ropes is a trick should be banned from magicdom.
To paraphrase Comic Book Guy, "Worst trick ever."
HR
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Postby Steve Bryant » 03/14/03 10:06 AM

The linking ropes is a trick should be banned from magicdom.
To paraphrase Comic Book Guy, "Worst trick ever."
Wow. I thought the linking ropes looked great in Don Lawton's hands. Also Peter Glovickski's. (sp?)

Yet I feel that way about Professor's Nightmare. If God himself were to show up and do it by real magic, it would still strike me as a lame, boring trick.
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Postby Jon Racherbaumer » 03/14/03 11:22 AM

Check out Bob King's pitch of the Linking Ropes. This is a much different "animal" from steel rings. The spek ties the ropes...or so it seems...and the linking and unlinking look great in Bob's hands. I'm only a scribbler who dabbles with pasteboards, but I bought a set as an offeratory and appreciation.

In other words, don't underestimate this trick.

Onward...
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Postby Guest » 03/14/03 01:45 PM

You've gotta be kidding, Steve! Laymen love Professor's Nightmare. It may be overdone, but it's a classic for a good reason - it's a clean, visual effect. Maybe you need to work on your presentation. :p

As for the linking ropes, the late Wayne Raeke from Baltimore had a version that I wondered about for about 20 years until I got the manuscript that explains it. However, I've never performed it myself - I only do linking rings with my beautiful Owen 12" set.
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Postby Steve Vaught » 03/15/03 07:28 AM

I received Mr. Vernon's video yesterday. After work last night-everyone was in bed-I pulled my recliner close to the TV and was delighted in my first experience with seeing and hearing "The Professor". I have Stars of Magic and I know video's is not the biggest medium on this forum, BUT I LOVED getting the opportunity to watch and listen to a legend. For me, that is one of the best reasons for video. You get to see the mannerisms, the spirit behind the person. I was only interested in the Rings, but there was so many other items that was such a pleasure to see. As I watched Mr. Vernon perform the Rings, he did one move where the ring looked like it melted through the top ring, all the way down to the bottom...cascading or something. It brought back a memory when I was a little tyke watching Doug Henning on TV. I was to little to remember the whole routine. Did he perform Symphony of the Rings?
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Postby Frank Yuen » 03/15/03 09:15 AM

Yes, Henning did use the Vernon routine.

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Postby Steve Vaught » 04/08/03 11:05 AM

o.k. I have been spending my time the last several weeks working on the routine.
...a question...
1) I personally don't care for when Mr. Vernon just throws the three rings up in the air, as if they were magically linked together in the air. I wanted to link the three the way Lewis Ganson did in his routine( you bring the single behind the rings letting one drop from chain of three and repeat with second single)
How does that variation sound? It looks and feels good to me, although I am interested in opinions from more seasoned workers.
2) Also, I feel it is a necessity to have the rings examined. How does this go over with timing it in your music? Do you walk out to a spectator? Should you have some one standing close by. Is there a concern for a break in the flowwwww of the music?
For the second question I am not interested in ideas but people with actual experience with the routine to music and audience participation at the same time.
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Postby Pete Biro » 04/08/03 04:11 PM

I just does not matter if you throw the rings up and link them or use another handling...

USE WHAT YOU FEEL GOOD WITH.

I do a talking version and couldn't imagine doing it silent to music (for me) but have seen MANY do it that way with great success.

You asked if Celini's was the same or different as??? I can't answer as I have not seen his routine. But...IMHO using only two rings really doesn't make a lot of sense as you are limited to so few moves.

I learned a five ring routine out of necessity. I had a limited amount of space to carry things when in the Army... I wanted to do the Vernon routine, but found I could use one less ring and do all I wanted. Link and unlink. Figures (for the gags).

As far as Whit's routine? I wouldn't do it, as he does it (and others) and I prefer to do my own material. :cool:
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Postby Guest » 04/08/03 05:12 PM

Try with the Roger Klause "In concert" book or video tape. Uses a little number of rings and is very efective.
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Postby Guest » 04/08/03 06:20 PM

I see where several here are fans of Whit Hadyn's routine as am I. As long as someone else is doing it...I'll explain.

I tried for a long time to make this routine work for me and for some reason still unknown to me I just never could make it play as strongly as I knew it could.

I had abandoned the idea of using the rings because I wanted a routine that was versatile and still some elements of audience participation but could be performed to music.

The answer for me was Jeff McBride's ring routine from his Commando act tape. The first time I performed it I knew I would never go back to Whit's, good as it is. I found out through experience Whit's routine just didn't suit me.

Besides the ring routine on Mr. McBride's tape you get a whole act that will pack into a small case and go virtually anywhere with you.

I'm surprised noone has mentioned it sooner. It's excellent and has several applause cues built into it.

I've had great experiences using this routine I hope you do as well.

Kindest regards,

Pete Mills
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Postby Glenn Farrington » 04/11/03 10:58 PM

Richard Ross...Richard Ross...Richard Ross.
Comedy's Easy...Dying Sucks.
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Postby Pete Biro » 04/12/03 09:04 AM

Al Koran, Al Koran, Al Koran :)
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Postby Guest » 04/12/03 09:33 AM

Al Baker had a ring routine in Magical Ways and Means that used, I think, three rings and a reel instead of a key. Might be worth a look. It would avoid the usual linking-type moves, and the rings can be hanging, linked, and then visually unlink.
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Postby Glenn Farrington » 04/12/03 10:33 AM

Beatlejuice...Beatlejuice...Beatlejuice
Comedy's Easy...Dying Sucks.
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Postby Pete Biro » 04/12/03 03:55 PM

Flicking Fingers, Flicing Fingers, Flicking Fingers (book 'em Glenn) :genii:
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Postby ADG » 04/12/03 10:47 PM

Greetings Steve......seems like no one has seen or mentioned Terry Lunceford's beautiful 3 Ring Routine done to an outstanding piece of classical music. It's poetry in motion! It's one of the best that I've seen done to music. Sometimes it's rather difficult to find a piece of music that flows or compliments all of the ring moves or displays. I might add that Richard Ross also does a nice version with music....Alex
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Postby Guest » 04/22/03 04:36 AM

Dear Biro I was just talking with Tamariz (who sends you greetings) and told me you're one of world most informed in linking rings.

I ask you:

1/ Jack Miller routine was the basis of Vernon Arlequin 5 ring routine.?
2/ The wheel link it's a classic one or it's Miller idea.
3/ The relation between Chefalo routine and Slydini it's minimal?. In my modest opinion Slydini routine use of 2 linked rings it's not 100% efficient. (I think Cellini version outcomes the problem better.?
4/ You know if Vernon final (putting key ring and normals one in spectators hand)it's based in old pastimers idea of giving a woman with gloves the key ring for the slit.?
5/ Do you think Jack Miller's routine and Ninja Rings it's more magician oriented than layman oriented.I think so?
6/ I've tried in Miller's routine ring tru arm, I think it's not possible (for me) doing it capably. Any suggestions.
7/Where Ken's Brooke complete routine it's described.? Was Odin's one.?
8/I 've been told than Han Pin Chien one was marvellous (used 6 rings, was Vernon initial source, he made an airplane?.) it's written where?.
9/ Tan Hock Chuan from Singapur has another very interesting you know it?. It's similar to Tommy Wong one?(has lots of strange figures not known for nobody).


I like you firmly believe Vernon's routine it's extraordinary and it's the very best one has to learn first.


Thanks
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Postby Pete Biro » 04/22/03 07:06 PM

Thanks for your kind words, and if you see Tamariz, give him my best.


I will have to do some checking on your questions. I will be back in touch... thanks... :genii:
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Postby Pete Biro » 04/23/03 11:46 AM

1/ Jack Miller routine was the basis of Vernon Arlequin 5 ring routine.?

I really don't know as I never saw the Harlequin routine of Vernon's.

2/ The wheel link it's a classic one or it's Miller idea.

The name WHEEL LINK does not ring a bell with me, sorry.

3/ The relation between Chefalo routine and Slydini it's minimal?. In my modest opinion Slydini routine use of 2 linked rings it's not 100% efficient. (I think Cellini version outcomes the problem better.?

Agreed

4/ You know if Vernon final (putting key ring and normals one in spectators hand)it's based in old pastimers idea of giving a woman with gloves the key ring for the slit.?

Where have you seen this in print?

5/ Do you think Jack Miller's routine and Ninja Rings it's more magician oriented than layman oriented.I think so?

I agree... laymen are baffled by the striaghtforward routines, the "juggling" might impress them, however, as it shows your skill.

6/ I've tried in Miller's routine ring tru arm, I think it's not possible (for me) doing it capably. Any suggestions.

I don't use it, but keep working on it

7/Where Ken's Brooke complete routine it's described.? Was Odin's one.?

Ken was mainly doing Vernon's but with some gags.. HIS COUND was the greatest, but I have nasty arthritis in my wrists and cannot do the count anynmore.

8/I 've been told than Han Pin Chien one was marvellous (used 6 rings, was Vernon initial source, he made an airplane?.) it's written where?.

Don't know Chien routine, but understand Vernon's six ring routine was based on Cardini's--who discovered the oversize ring working at Gamages when rings were badly made and not all same size.

9/ Tan Hock Chuan from Singapur has another very interesting you know it?. It's similar to Tommy Wong one?(has lots of strange figures not known for nobody).

Today's audiences would have a difficult time watching figure after figure unless you were a great performer with a strong presentation.


I like you firmly believe Vernon's routine it's extraordinary and it's the very best one has to learn first.

Vernon routine is simple for the audience to follow, it is just long enough and when learned you will always have a great routine as long as you make the presentation your own style. I prefer, for talking act, a five ring routine, and when you want a short one, Koran's 3-Ring routine. I would never work without the Linking Rings. :genii:
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Postby Guest » 04/23/03 02:28 PM

Peter Biro,

Don't know if others have mentioned it but I just wanted to tell you how much I appreciate your insights, suggestions and humor. You are truly one of the brothers who gives a lot back to all of us.

Bill
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Postby Pete Biro » 04/23/03 06:24 PM

Most appreciated your kind words... I try to be accurate, but my failing brain doesn't always work.

I really enjoy the two way stuff here (as I did on Magic and Gemini before) and get more out of it than I put in.

Meanwhile, can we get rid of that emoticon with the hammer? :whack:
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Postby Guest » 04/24/03 12:04 AM

Dear Biro:
Thanks for your reply:
1/My english it's not as good as I wanted, I was asking for "Heel Link"; Having the gap of key in contact with the heel of palm (Jack Miller book).
2/In relationto the old idea of having a gloved lady holding in her fisted the key gap. It's described like many old little known ideas in an old spanish magic cyclopaedia "lecciones de ilusionismo" by Florensa 50s years.
3/When you talk about Brooke's COUND you're meaning COUNT. If you go to Fism 2003 I'll be glad to meet you, youll have to see my partner version of that count, in Tamariz words it's beter than Brooke's.
4/I believe that oversized ring was a classic idea prior to Cardini. Do you know if Vernon used that dodge in his routine?. (we all know Vernon published easier versions than his).
5/Have you tried Fawcett Ross additions to Vernon routine, I think they're very good?.
6/When you talk about 5 rings routine . You're refering to a routine using: 2 linked, 2 singles, one key (like Mac Comb's routine), or your talking of your configuration: (3 linked, single, key).
7/Charlie Miller makes reference to Tan Lock Chan routine ? Uses 2 linked, 3 singles, 1 key. (I supposse this is also Han Pin Chien combination ?)
8/In close up I've one routine [3 minutes]with 4 little rings (it fits in my inner jacket pocket, (combining Takagi, Laurant, Jack Miller, Vernon, Klause & Slydini concepts).
9/ After reading Daley notebooks I remenber Blackstone father routine: a classic one but well thougt, for being in that monumental work not very known.

I ever use Linking rings as a final to my stage show.
I agree with Tamariz opinion: Linking Rings it's the ever very best effect. Opinion almost shared by Finn John (Later I'll tell you why)


Thanks
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Postby Pete Biro » 04/24/03 10:59 AM

I will be at FISM... Your English is better than my Spanish. Adios. :cool:
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Postby Guest » 04/24/03 05:51 PM

A different ring routine using only 4 rings is Jack Dean's "FouRings" which is available from AB StageCraft - http://www.stores.ebay.ca/ABstagecraft

PSIncerely Yours,
Paul Alberstat
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Postby Guest » 04/29/03 12:37 PM

I heard, from a very respected source a few years ago, that Vernon's ring routine actually belonged to Cardini, who was not very pleased that Vernon wrote it up as his own.

Is there any truth to this rumor?
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Postby Pete Biro » 04/29/03 03:44 PM

It is my understanding that much of that story is true, and that was why Cardini didn't speak to Vernon. Sadly, neither is alive to back up the story.

Frankly, every time someone inventes something "new" with the rings, it is found to have been in print years before.

How many ways can you do things with this prop? :rolleyes:
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Postby Guest » 04/30/03 01:02 PM

Hey Pete Biro,
Would you care to share some of the gags for the figures?
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Postby Pete Biro » 05/03/03 03:27 PM

Don't take this personally, but since the figures I do and the gags I use are in my CURRENT repertoire, I really don't wish to broadcast them all about and have everyone knowing/and/or doing my material.

I know that no one else can be "me" (who would want to) but still, these are so personal, to me, that they may not play well in other people's hands.

My real opinion?

Do research in the published handlings and moves for the rings, then work out your own personal slant and presentation.

And remember, it takes years to hone some of these kinds of things. :)
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