Dove to silk originator?

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Spellbinder
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Dove to silk originator?

Postby Spellbinder » July 25th, 2003, 10:01 pm

Does anyone know the first magician to use tails to perform the dove to silk transformation? I thought for sure the answer would be in Adair's Dove Encyclopedia or in Tarbell, but no luck.
Phineas Spellbinder
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Spellbinder
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Re: Dove to silk originator?

Postby Spellbinder » July 26th, 2003, 6:15 am

Never mind. I put the question to the boys at the Magic Cafe and they came through in fine style, telling me that Channing Pollock was the originator of the vanish (of course! How could I forget?).
Phineas Spellbinder

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Re: Dove to silk originator?

Postby Guest » August 1st, 2003, 2:08 pm

I believe the original idea was from Slydini and he passed to Channing because he was the best to do it. I maybe wrong.

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Re: Dove to silk originator?

Postby Guest » August 1st, 2003, 2:24 pm

Cantu, the mexican magician was the "first to win fame" with an act using doves. The dove to silk was Channing's, I think.

Dale Shrimpton
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Re: Dove to silk originator?

Postby Dale Shrimpton » August 4th, 2003, 5:17 am

I am told that the first lady to do it, was a magician called Maisy Gleason,here in the north of england in the late 50's.

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Pete Biro
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Re: Dove to silk originator?

Postby Pete Biro » August 4th, 2003, 12:43 pm

Channing is credited with the Dove/Silk effect. I will contact Johnny Thompson, who does a "parody" of Channing's act and who knows for sure the sources... several items, now seemingly standards, were first done by Chan... double dove, steal from tails, steal from hat, etc.

Cage vanish of birds was created for Channing by Conrad Haden.
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Re: Dove to silk originator?

Postby Guest » August 8th, 2003, 11:39 am

I spent some time with General Grant this weekend (July31-Aug 2) at Martini's “Funarama” in Maryland. I have watched Grant's act including the silk-to-dove bit a number of times over the past 20 years.

I asked him who developed the silk-to-dove trick. The conservation made it very clear that he did!

The history (according to Grant) is this: Grant developed (and was performing professionally) his dove act including the dove-to-silk trick, in his early twenties. He was a close friend to Irv (Mr. Fingers) Weiner. Both were living in the same town. Irv watched his act many times and was very impressed with the dove-to-silk stunt.

Irv had been a student of the Chavez School of Magic. Channing Pollock was also student of the School at the same time as Irv and the two were friends.

After seeing General's silk-to-dove trick, Irv told Pollock about it and Pollock added it to his act.

Interestingly, Grant had perfected the “necessary” to make the trick foolproof and safe for the dove (the dove is never tossed it is placed). Pollock's method and "necessary" required a toss, which could miss. Pollock missed the toss more than once and as noted above, missed on national TV.

Grant is still performing the silk-to-dove and teaches it in his lecture and tape/DVD.

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Re: Dove to silk originator?

Postby Guest » January 12th, 2005, 1:13 pm

I made a comment on the topic titled "The Greatest Dove Worker Of All Times" or something to that effect.

If I remember correctly, Gen. Grant won the contest for Originality at a magician's convention in 1955 in Bridgeport, Ct. It was either the IBM or SAM Nat'l Convention. He won for the one handed dove to silk effect.

I happened to know Gen. at the time and all the magicians who gathered each Saturday at Holden's Magic Shop in Boston were talking about it. It seems to me that Gen. would not have won for Originality if Channing Pollock had already started using the effect, since most Professional Magicians would have been aware of it and hence no prize for Gen.

I remember seeing Channing on the Ed Sullivan Show in March of 1954 but, I don't remember him doing the Dove to Silk on TV at that time. However, when Pollock returned from Europe he played the Sullivan show again in July of 1960 and did (or attempt) the Dove to Silk but, he missed and the dove skid across the floor. His assistant, and then wife Mimi, covered very smoothly for him by nonchalantly picking up the dove and putting it in its cage. Channing, without missing a beat, finished his act beautifully. The sign of a true professional.

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Re: Dove to silk originator?

Postby Bill Palmer » January 12th, 2005, 8:41 pm

In a lecture in Houston during the late 1970's or early 1980's General Grant told us pretty much the same thing.

I was working a show once with Chen-Kai, when he missed the pocket on the dove to silk. It was the last thing in his act. He did not know he had missed. There was basically no response. So he struck the "star" position a second time and literally "forced" the applause out of the audience. Good showman.

The poor dove was kind of staggering around on the stage behind him.
Bill Palmer, MIMC

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Richard Kaufman
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Re: Dove to silk originator?

Postby Richard Kaufman » January 12th, 2005, 9:08 pm

I saw a guy miss on this at a national convention last year: it looked like he killed the dove. When it was picked up, its head was limp.
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Re: Dove to silk originator?

Postby Guest » January 13th, 2005, 8:08 am

To answer the initial question - General Grant did invent the dove to silk effect. A kind and generous magician, he will be glad to teach you the correct way to do the effect with all the subtleties. --Asrah

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Re: Dove to silk originator?

Postby Dale Shrimpton » January 14th, 2005, 1:03 am

This is one of those, " I have seen it, so i know how it works" tricks. Alas this has resulted in stunned, and dead birds.
I was always told that you put the duve into the u know what, as yu bend down, and that it is never thrown.
Maybe if this advice was given to those spoken of above, there would be at least one more dove cooing.
D.

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Re: Dove to silk originator?

Postby Guest » January 27th, 2005, 7:00 pm

I once heard of an amusment park stage/dove worker miss the vanish then step back on top of the dove as he went to take a bow. Ouch...
I also have heard of a magician working where the ceiling fans were always off... only one night they weren't and his dove flew right up into it...
(Bad magician no throwing doves.)
Once Fortunatly not on stage just at a club meeting when I was teaching a basic dove steal I drop the silk during the explanation part and without thinking bent down to pick it up... with out bending at the knees and poof its a dove mummy on the floor... (the dove was ok but it scared the #%!* out of me.)


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