Mac King's Book Test

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Postby Guest » 08/27/03 12:16 PM

I just came back from Las Vegas and saw Mac King's show for the 5th time but he added a book test! I love it! Does anyone know who's book test he is using it was wonderfull. I am thinking it is the mother of all book test! Any help is apreciated.

Best,
Rick Castro
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Postby mark » 08/27/03 05:32 PM

Wow, that must be new, I just saw him a few weeks ago, and he did no book test then.
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Postby Guest » 08/27/03 09:42 PM

Rick,

Mac is a great performer, great thinker and a really nice guy who performs magic for a living. If you were so interested in his book test, why didn't you hang-out after the show to ask him? Much classier than asking about a pro's working material on an open public forum.
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Postby Guest » 08/27/03 10:21 PM

I would have hung out after the show, but I took a non-magician friend with me and did not want to talk shop in front of him. And I don't feel that me asking about his book test will in any way have any negative impact on Mac or his Carrer. I was just impressed by the effect and was wondering who the brainchild of such a great trick this might belong to.

-Rick
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Postby Guest » 08/28/03 10:01 AM

Rick,
I understand the "layman in tow" difficulty.

You write "And I don't feel that me asking about his book test will in any way have any negative impact on Mac or his Carrer."

I agree, it is just creepy to "method hunt" material from a pro's bread and butter.

And, perhaps alternative spellings such as "Carrer" in place of "Career" made it that much more impressive to you.

For someone who "...saw Mac King's show for the 5th time.." couldn't you just wait to ask Mac in person on your 6th visit?
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Postby Pete Biro » 08/28/03 10:08 AM

If it is "The Mother of All Book Tests" be ready to spend between $400 to $500 to get a copy.

But... you have to be a killer performer, like Mac to pull it off...

But why would you want to "do" Mac? You have a closet full of corny, plaid suits? :D
Stay tooned.
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Postby Guest » 08/28/03 11:05 AM

Anyone know where I can get me one of them suits?
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Postby Jeff Haas » 08/28/03 11:34 AM

Take Terry Seabrooke's advice...steal the seatcovers from a Pinto.
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Postby Guest » 08/28/03 12:26 PM

but then if someone backed into you, your bum would explode! :p
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Postby Guest » 08/28/03 12:26 PM

Sorry for spelling "career" wrong the "r" and the "e" are awfully close to each other on the keyboard. As for your remarks, I feel you are being overly protective of Mac King's material. I guess we can no longer ask methods to effects we see, hell why would we need to know? We are only magicians! I would never copy Mac; I have my own performance style.

Plus I would never be seen in public wearing PLAID!

-Rick
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Postby Pete Biro » 08/28/03 12:41 PM

"You like my suit? I had to kill a couch to make it." Kaboom... :whack:
Stay tooned.
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Postby Guest » 08/28/03 02:20 PM

Rick,

If all you say is true, there is an easy and almost perfect solution: Ask Mac. His e-mail is mac@mackingshow.com

My only complaint is about someone shopping for magic in a pro's act.

This is why we so often see one performer who digs-up or creates a new idea, only to discover that a month later, every guy with Cardtoon and a Keyboard is "shopping for his secrets."
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Postby Guest » 08/28/03 06:16 PM

Okay, I don't post often, but here goes. This situation is like when I see posts from people looking to find out "...the particular piece of music that (insert name of current hot performer here) used for (insert name of current hot stage effect here). A performer searches long and hard for the correct music or theme for an effect, and you should NOT be using the very same thing for your Rotary Club show in Podunk, Wherever, U.S.A. Be more original. I'd love to have a "Mac King" suit...it would fit my character (and that character has been mine for 25 years), but I can't. That character has been taken. The same goes for most original pieces of magic. Be as original as you can with your character.

Steve Thomas
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Postby Jeff Eline » 08/28/03 06:29 PM

Rick,

How dare you ask an honest question about an effect you saw another performer do!! On a forum for magicians no less!! You must learn to simply watch a performance, hands folded, and never, EVER let your mind wonder to possible methods. And don't ever ask anyone about the show and it's effects. Who do you think you are... a magician??!!

Because if you do ask your inane questions in public, you will be immediately accused of stealing, you'll most certainly be ridiculed and criticized, and your spelling "mistakes" will be pointed out for all to see. How dare you try to learn! :mad: :mad: :mad:
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Postby Guest » 08/28/03 09:41 PM

Thanks Jeff! You put a smile on my Face. As for the "New Guy" who are you? Mac's Agent? You need to take a chill Pill! I have e-mailed many respectful magicians and they do not feel that my question was in any way "out of line" or "disrespectful".

But then again what was I thinking? Why would I ever want to know the methods to anything? God forbid I may actually contribute improvements to something. I am done with this. Forget I asked. What was I thinking!

And as for my spelling, this is a MAGIC forum not an English forum!
-Rick
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Postby Guest » 08/28/03 10:08 PM

Re: Genii forum / routine request

I think its okay to ask what routine another professional is doing / using. Why break hundreds of years of tradition now? ;)

Ideally the person asking has a decent set of principles and ethics.

Unfortunately...
This criteria will eliminate many magi.

Fortunately...
The Genii forum is populated with good guys

regards,
Doug Conn
www.dougconn.com

PS: I hope I spelled everything write ;)
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Postby Guest » 08/29/03 06:33 AM

My 2 cents having seen Mac twice:

Ironically, of all the top pros out their for whom one might ask about a trick's method, Mac is the pro with the least to fear about secrecy, as he is all about peformance style and humor. Don't get me wrong, he appears to love to amaze (..."no way"..."yes way")--great magic, great humor.

That said, if one reads his lecture notes, it is clear that even though he has absolutely nothing to fear, he does not like to tip his work. His notes teach quality routines related to his, but not his working bread and butter.

However, as long as no improper future use is intended, there is nothing wrong with asking about method on a magicians' only forum.

(btw, am I the only one who always looks for method, but in the end, it's the performance that matters to me. if I guess the method, but the performance is great, I still love it, and if I'm baffled, but the performance is bad, I'm disappointed.)

:cool:
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Postby Guest » 08/29/03 10:07 AM

How interesting. You choose to use overstated humor and exaggeration in place of addressing the core issue - which is:

If you see something you like in another performer's act, the first place you should go to find out more is "THE GUY WHO'S ACT YOU WERE WATCHING."

So, instead of avoiding the issue - why not ask Mac? I gave you his e-mail above.

This is not a protected professional forum. It is a social gathering place for a community of magicians, pro and amateur. Professional forums are not accessible by the general public. Do a Google search on almost any topic in the Forum and you'll be directed right to it.

So, if you really feel the need to dissect the clever material someone has chosen to perform in their act, why don't you start by posting the details of your act, Rick?
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Postby Guest » 08/29/03 04:29 PM

The comments about copying others are soooooo well founded and everyone should re-read them. I have told so many magicians that I have seen doing the "invisible deck" that they are doing ripped off material stolen without permission from Don Alan. Most of their comments were "well the lines work for my audience so I am keeping them" or "others use them why can't I?". Amazing, simnply amazing, and they will keep on doing it too.

Although a few years back there was a so called comedy magician working the comedy circuit that was doing Fileding Wests act VERBATUM. I hauled him aside and he actually had the nerve to try to tell me that it was all his original material (including Bob the bird). I warned him and left. A few months later I get a frantic phone message from my manager (while I was on a long three month tour) saying that I need to call this schmuck as he is threatening law suits against me.

I call him and he says "Where do you get off telling all the clubs that I am doing stolen material, I am going to sue you!" to which I said "Dave, you go ahead and keep doing it and when I get back down to Vegas I'll let Fileding know and he can take whatever action he deems appropriate. If you have trouble with that, then by all means go ahead and sue me but know that Feilding's act is copywritten by the Screen Writers Guild, so if you really want a war, you keep this up" and I hung up.

Short story made even longer, he killed himself later (not due to this however) BUT I am told that he stopped the act as no one was hiring him BUT his now ex business parner actually defended him which really makes me sad because he IS a well known, working magician.

PSIncerely Yours,
Paul Alberstat
AB Stagecraft
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Suppliers of unique Mentalism world-wide
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Postby Herman Koster » 08/30/03 03:55 AM

I remember Mac performing in Holland and lecturing the day after. He explained everything in great detail that was in his lecturenotes. Then someone asked about his rope routine (with all the tiny pieces knotted). Mac said: ''if it's in my act, it's not in my lecture.'' Great answer and it let people know not to steal original ideas or presentations if the originator doesn't want it.

I had the great pleasure of seeing Armando Lucero perform at FISM here in Holland. Of course I'm thinking ''How in the world is he doing some of his stuff?'', but I don't want to know. It's so rare to have a feeling of witnessing true magic, that I don't want to spoil it by knowing the method, just because I'm a magician and I should know everything. Just treasure the moments you feel like this.

About the booktest, I don't know what version Mac uses, but it doesn't matter, because Mac obviously found a version that works for him and that doesn't mean it would work for anybody. Just do reasearch and study as many versions as you can find if you really want to perform it. Don't just ask what version he's using if that's all you want to know (I hope this makes sense)

And please let us magicians become less interested in other people's effects (unless there in print or for sale)

Take care,

Herman Koster,
The Netherlands

use the bricks to build your home, don't just steal the home. :)
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Postby Jeff Eline » 08/30/03 07:05 AM

Paul & Herman,

I agree with everything you've said. And I would venture a guess that everyone on this forum would agree as well. No one likes a thief and everyone should be striving for originality in his or her magic.

Unfortunately, that's not the issue with Rick's question. He asked about an effect in someone's show and it's pedigree. He didn't say he was working on a similar act or he wanted to include it in his next show.

I find it no different than walking into a magic store and saying to a bunch of guys... "Hey, did you see that levitation Blaine did? Was that the Balducci??" Should that person be pilloried for even asking the question? I don't think so.

Which is really my problem with the whole discussion. Rick's question seem to warrant one of a few responses:

1. Yes, Mac King uses the Karmilovich's Mother of all Book Tests.

or

2. No, he doesn't use that method. I think he uses Hoy's - or He's come up with his own method.

or

3. I don't know

Instead, he's insulted as being classless and creepy and ridiculed for his spelling mistakes.

The beauty of this forum is the level and quality of discussion and debate. Unfortunately, every now and then, some use it as an opportunity to insult and degrade other magician's. That's the core issue!!

Jeff - (my real name)

PS - and I don't buy the whole argument that this is a public place. No layman is going to take the time and energy to search this forum for possible methods of tricks in shows. And if they did - how much would they learn by reading that Mac King uses the Mother of All Book test??? Not much!
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Postby Herman Koster » 08/30/03 11:51 AM

Dear Jeff,

Please don't see my remark as an attack, because it isn't supposed to be one. Also, I don't really care if someone makes a typo.

My reply isn't really specified to Rick either, because I know a lot of magicians would ask a question like that. It just bothers me sometimes that we as magicians can't stand NOT knowing how some tricks work, and most of us are trying to find a solution.

I used to work in a magicshop here in Holland (13 years) and it always was the same. As soon as eg. Copperfield performed Misled, a lot of magicians would want it. David Blaine does the levitation, a lot of magicians want to know how it works. They don't even want to take the trouble to read and study our art, they just want answers asap. And most of the time, after they buy the trick, know how it works, it ends up in a drawer somewhere. They're just satisfied they know the secret.

I hope some day magicians will find out that it's not only the secrets that make the magic (they just help a lot)

So Rick, I hope you are not offended by my reply, it's just my feeling toward magic. And my answer would be 3. (I don't know) Good luck with your research.
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Postby Kendrix » 09/01/03 03:51 PM

Reading this thread makes my head hurt. This is so much a "Tempest in a Teapot". I think Rick's question was very innocent and shows who can entertain and who is worrried about "the props". See thread "Prop magicians are boring".
I will tell you that everyone, repeat everyone, slips and "rips off" other people's lines. Copperfield, Burton, and on and on do it. In the heat of the moment when certain circumstances come up, it is almost an involuntary response. If you have never done it, you haven't performed much or your act is silent.
As far you "New Guy", lighten up on Rick's spelling. It is no indication of intelligence or content.
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Postby John Smetana » 09/02/03 09:54 AM

Originally posted by Kendrix:
I will tell you that everyone, repeat everyone, slips and "rips off" other people's lines. Copperfield, Burton, and on and on do it. In the heat of the moment when certain circumstances come up, it is almost an involuntary response.
Do they really? And is that a good thing?

Best thoughts,
John Smetana
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Postby Guest » 09/02/03 10:48 AM

Do they really? And is that a good thing?

nope, it's not a good thing but as long as its involuntary it can be excused.

Speaking of lines (& Mac King) a few years ago, I was doing some street performing and during my rope routine, out slipped Macs "naked Houdini rope escape" line...

I immediately stopped the show,, turned towards Nevada & said three "Hail Macs"
... and
then I went to eat a Big Mac (associating the gut pain of said burger as a penalty for using Macs line... okay that didn't really happen, but it coulda.)

Anyway, the guilt I felt kept me from ever saying the line again. My thoughts: If you're stealing lines (and not feeling guilty) please stop performing publicly. Sidenote: If you're using other magi's lines (especially pro stuff that is obviously proprietary) it's okay... but only ONCE... after that, repent and MOVE ON(ward.)

That (IMO) is okay
Doug Conn
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Postby Kendrix » 09/02/03 12:26 PM

John S. No, it's not a good thing. I never said it was. However, these are not cures for cancer, ways to stop heart disease or cure people with depression.
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Postby themaestro » 09/07/03 07:38 PM

Originally posted by New Guy:

If you see something you like in another performer's act, the first place you should go to find out more is "THE GUY WHO'S ACT YOU WERE WATCHING."
Ahem. That should be "WHOSE." :D
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