The Card Sword . . .

Discuss your favorite platform magic and illusions.

Postby Ray Eden » 08/31/04 05:19 AM

And yet another question . . . I recently performed at a Medieval Faire at an authentic castle in Finland, and have been asked to return for next year. So . . . I'm in the process of developing new material for next year.

Can anyone give me information on where I could find a Card Sword that can actually be used in 'combat' with someone else? In other words, a sword strong enough to be used as a real sword. Any and all suggestions are welcome.

R. Eden
Ray Eden
 
Posts: 332
Joined: 05/25/09 08:57 AM
Location: Tampere, Finland

Postby Brian Morton » 08/31/04 06:38 AM

After having worked with what is widely considered to be one of the better card swords made today (El Duco) for the last six years, and seeing what "real" swords go through in fight choreography (one of my best friends is a fight choreographer for the Maryland Renaissance Festival) I can tell you that if you wanted something to do double duty, you'd probably have to have it custom-made. And it would likely cost an arm and a leg as well, given the peculiarities of the mechanism of a card sword.

Card swords tend to be thicker, and plated with a finish brighter than a fight sword (because it's all about visibility -- it's a stage prop, after all), and fight swords need to withstand a world of punishment. You'd probably not want to have it plated at all.

There are a few handlings out there for ungaffed sword card revelations -- check around and you might find one you like. But the expense you'd be incurring for a sword to do double duty might not be worth the effort.

brian :cool:
User avatar
Brian Morton
 
Posts: 387
Joined: 03/12/08 11:43 AM
Location: Bawlamer, Merlin

Postby Ray Eden » 08/31/04 08:48 AM

Brain,

How do you like the El Deco sword? I took a look at it on the site, and it seems quite nice. One drawback is that it appears to be later than Medieval Times.

I'll look into the non-gimmicked methods that you mentioned. Can you offer any sources that I could start checking into?

R. Eden.
Ray Eden
 
Posts: 332
Joined: 05/25/09 08:57 AM
Location: Tampere, Finland

Postby Gerald Deutsch » 08/31/04 02:35 PM

Some quick thoughts about card stabbing:

1 Milbourne Christopher published "Super Stab" in the October 1948 issue of Hugards Magic Monthly.

The effect briefly is a selected card is shuffled back into the deck, the deck put into its case and the case tossed into a paper bag which the performer holds in his left hand. The right hand holds a large knife which is pushed through the bag and pulled upward and has the selected card impailed. A toss is made with the left hand and the deck flies out and is caught against the bag and all can be examined.

If anyone is interested and can't get this issue let me know.

2 As many of you know. I am interested in "Perverse Magic" and I've often thought of doing the card stab effect by having a card selected, shuffled back into the pack and then explaining to the audience that you are going to toss the deck into the air and stab it with the sword and you will get the selected card.

You do what you said you would but when you stab 51 cards are on the sword and the selected card falls to the floor. "Damn!" you say in disgust.

Can this be done?
Gerald Deutsch
 
Posts: 319
Joined: 01/17/08 01:00 PM
Location: Glen Head New York

Postby Guest » 08/31/04 02:55 PM

Originally posted by Gerald Deutsch:
Some quick thoughts about card stabbing:


2 As many of you know. I am interested in "Perverse Magic" and I've often thought of doing the card stab effect by having a card selected, shuffled back into the pack and then explaining to the audience that you are going to toss the deck into the air and stab it with the sword and you will get the selected card.

You do what you said you would but when you stab 51 cards are on the sword and the selected card falls to the floor. "Damn!" you say in disgust.

Can this be done?
Can and has been done. If you check the Albo books, one of the early ones maybe Volume three, has a section on Card Swords. It includes a German sword that does exactly what you want - 51 cards on the sword! I don't remember the maker, but Conradi, or Bartl come to mind...

Best, PSC
Guest
 

Postby GAMOLO » 08/31/04 03:50 PM

The simplest way to accomplish your goal would be to switch swords. A drop down (like Gufterson used when switching candles) move would seem fair since you are waving the sword around in the air anyway. Calling attention to a spectator(s) to be careful would provide misdirection.
GAMOLO
 
Posts: 81
Joined: 01/22/08 01:00 PM
Location: Potomac, Md.

Postby Brian Morton » 08/31/04 04:19 PM

Ray Eden says:
How do you like the El D[u]co sword? I took a look at it on the site, and it seems quite nice. One drawback is that it appears to be later than Medieval Times.

I'll look into the non-gimmicked methods that you mentioned. Can you offer any sources that I could start checking into?
Well, I know Howie Schwarzman has a method, but I'm about 99 percent sure that it is unpublished. But you may want to check around.

As for the first question, the El Duco sword is great, although the gaff is of a material that might be hard to replace exactly when it breaks (and trust me on this one: it DOES break). However, there's an easy and inexpensive solution (not going into detail as to method, obvious as it may be).

I think the El Duco looks the most realistic of all the swords out there, and especially for the little loop it has at the back of the handle/pommel, which you can tie a red scarf or some such to. This adds historical realism, as these devices were actually used as a distraction in actual fights, and adds to the general misdirection of the prop as well, since it draws the eye away from the most glaring discrepancies between a card sword and a real one.

brian :cool:
User avatar
Brian Morton
 
Posts: 387
Joined: 03/12/08 11:43 AM
Location: Bawlamer, Merlin

Postby Pete Biro » 08/31/04 11:30 PM

Fred Kaps had a couple of swords, one that 51 Cards appeared on, the other a custom made sabre. I don't know where it went, but Dick Koornwinder could maybe tell you.

Meanwhile, Clarke Crandall had a great card sword with no gimmick, but the sword was actually a short scimitar.

But, the way to do it with a non-gimmicked real sword is soooo simple.

Email me at petebiro@aol.com if you are really seriously interested.
Stay tooned.
User avatar
Pete Biro
 
Posts: 7124
Joined: 01/17/08 01:00 PM
Location: Hollyweird

Postby Guest » 09/02/04 08:32 AM

Though Card on Sword is a great effect... how many swords do you see these days.... wouldn't it be more fun to bring this effect up to date by using something more modern... a couple of years back there was a card to cell phone antenna, not a bad idea; but lets brain storm here to see what else could be done try coming up with a theme for the routine and go from there. Ill kick it around and get back to you on it this could be kind of fun

Take Care

Ken

BTW at first didn't I realize you said it would be performed at a Medieval Faire, (sorry :o ) I still say there has to be something other than a sword to perform this effect with... aside from being original, you'll be adding some fun to your creativity level
Guest
 

Postby Pete Biro » 09/02/04 09:47 AM

A sword is common at faire's, but you could have a deck thrown at a SHIELD and one card sticks to it.

Top of a pointed helmet. (Marketing rights reserved)!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :kermit:

Stuck on viking horn hat.

End of a whip.

Torture items?

End of chain.

In a pig's mouth.

On a pig's tail.

Keep thinking...
Stay tooned.
User avatar
Pete Biro
 
Posts: 7124
Joined: 01/17/08 01:00 PM
Location: Hollyweird

Postby Rick Schulz » 09/02/04 11:07 AM

In a modern context: have the card appear at the end of an umbrella; on the back of a PDA, end of a fishing pole (pretty universal regardless if the time period), on a letter opener.
Rick Schulz
 
Posts: 175
Joined: 01/17/08 01:00 PM
Location: Ft. Worth, TX

Postby Guest » 09/02/04 02:44 PM

to Continue with the modern theme how about some of the following ideas -

Card to/on Mike Cord Having a card selected and returned to the deck the deck is shuffled and thrown into the air the performer whips his mike cord in the air around/through the cards and when the dust settles one card is seen hanging from the cord note the card would have a hole in it just large enough for the cord kind of a double conundrum (thats my word of the day)

Pen/Pencil or your Finger as opposed to a sword -and depending on your audience (night club shows) you could get it wrong at first having the wrong card penetrate the wrong finger... :mad: ooops!!!

A Balloon Sword for use with a Jumbo Deck

How about a Card on Sword Picture printed on a T-shirt first the shirt is seen without a card then the card is selected then the deck is thrown in the direction of the performer upon inspecting the shirt the card is now seen printed on the shirt. Or for kicks and giggles it could be a signed card that is actually later found pinned to the shirt in the place where the magician with sword is pictured this would be easy enough using any of the old card pinned to jacked/shirt methods.

I know back to the drawing board - I'll keep thinking :confused:

Ken
Guest
 

Postby Pete Biro » 09/02/04 04:13 PM

My Card caught in a Rat Trap.
Stay tooned.
User avatar
Pete Biro
 
Posts: 7124
Joined: 01/17/08 01:00 PM
Location: Hollyweird

Postby Ray Eden » 09/03/04 02:03 AM

Yes . . . many other card locations come to mind. My reasoning for maintaining the card with a sword is that the primary focus of this faire is Medieval fighting. Many, many tournaments are held throughout the weekend, so it plays better into the central theme.

R. Eden
Ray Eden
 
Posts: 332
Joined: 05/25/09 08:57 AM
Location: Tampere, Finland

Postby Jeff Haas » 09/03/04 12:12 PM

Why not use a spit from the BBQ fire?
Jeff Haas
 
Posts: 917
Joined: 01/17/08 01:00 PM
Location: San Mateo, CA

Postby Guest » 09/03/04 07:11 PM

rayeden

I'm sorry I saw that too late, at any rate it was kind of fun kicking the ideas around... good luck with your card sword

Ken
Guest
 

Postby Ray Eden » 09/04/04 08:50 AM

No harm done . . . Pete Biro came through for me again and offered a solution to the sword that can actually be used for a choreographed combat, so I did get a solid answer to my question.

After initially asking the question, I remembered that Lance Burton actual does the Card Sword with choreographed combat. I'm assuming that he's using a custom made piece for this using the 'normal method', but its been a while since I've watched the piece. Guess I'll have to dig out my video tapes.

R. Eden
Ray Eden
 
Posts: 332
Joined: 05/25/09 08:57 AM
Location: Tampere, Finland

Postby Pete Biro » 09/04/04 10:41 PM

Glad to be a help. :cool:
Stay tooned.
User avatar
Pete Biro
 
Posts: 7124
Joined: 01/17/08 01:00 PM
Location: Hollyweird

Postby Guest » 10/20/04 06:21 PM

I just saw this on ebay you might check it out: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... eName=WDVW
Guest
 


Return to Platform & Stage Magic