The Ultra Move

Discuss your favorite close-up tricks and methods.

Postby Guest » 07/11/02 11:09 AM

Does anyone know if Harry Lorayne's Ultra Move is available for open viewing? My copy of Vol. 2 of "Best of Friends" says it's in Vol. 1, but I hate to spend 60 bucks to get this move. Any help would be appreciated.
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Postby Guest » 07/11/02 11:41 AM

You can get the info on a video for 30 bucks...

The two volume compliation (of Harry's old Tannen's Tapes)seems like a good resource:
check:
http://charliesmagic.com/magical-classics.html
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Postby Richard Kaufman » 07/11/02 07:10 PM

The so-called Ultra Move (Lorayne's title for a sleight that is not his) has been printed in a number of places as open flourish. To do it secretly, just turn your hand palm down at the same time. It helps to hold the deck in a Straddle Grip so your pinky and first fingertip can hold the pushed-over card in position. The first place the sleight was published as a SECRET move was in Arthur Buckley's Book Card Control under the title "The Hypnotist." That was in the 1940s!
Here's a tip for telling which sleights or tricks that Lorayne has published which are not his:
1) If the title of the trick or sleight has any part of his first or last name, or his initials, there's a good chance it's not his item. "Lorayne's Poker Deal," for example, was published decades earlier by Martin Gardner and Ed Marlo
2) If the title of the trick contains some bombastic adjective, such as the "Ultra" this, or the "Epitome" that, there's a good chance it's not his item.
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Postby Guest » 07/11/02 07:11 PM

Thanks for the info on the video regardingthe Halo Move -- but -- I guess I didn't make myself clear: I was hoping to find out how to do the move without spending even 30 bucks -- could someone either describe it or email the directions to me?
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Postby Guest » 07/11/02 07:13 PM

Thanks, Richard, for the directions to the Ultra Move -- now I can use the $60 (even the $30) to spend foolishly (but happily) on another card book!
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Postby Guest » 07/11/02 08:21 PM

If you're interested, ya can get the Buckley book at amazon.com for only 9 bucks
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Postby Guest » 07/12/02 04:09 AM

Dear Friends.

Concerning the Ultra Move; surprise, surprise.

On page 186 of The Secrets of Conjuring and Magic by Robert Houdin (1868), is a move called "To Change A Card With One Hand".
It is the Ultra Move before the Ultra Move was born.

There is nothing new in magic

Best

Michael Vincent

:cool:
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Postby Andi » 07/12/02 04:32 AM

Another, even earlier reference was published by Jean-Nicholas Ponsin in Nouvelle Magie Blanche Devoilee from 1854 or in English a little later in the 1937 Sharpe translation.

--Andi
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Postby Richard Kaufman » 07/12/02 08:13 PM

I knew it was in the earlier books, however I don't believe they describe it as a secret action, or at least that's ambiguous. Since my memory is not what it was, perhaps someone will look it up and quote the actual passage from Houdin's "Secrets of Conjuring and Magic."
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Postby Guest » 07/13/02 03:41 AM

"This is an extremely elegant piece of manipulation; but must be considered rather as a flourish than as of practical utility. However skilfully it is executed, it is impossible to disguise the operation. For this reason, conjurors, so far from affecting to make any mystery about it, rather draw attention to their elegant execution of the movement". Robert Houdin 1868

Harry Lorayne was the first to use this movement as a secret operation and the first to record it in print as far as I am aware.
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Postby Richard Kaufman » 07/13/02 08:48 AM

Michael, go look at Arthur Buckley's book "Card Control" and specifically at the trick "The Hypnotist." There you will find the sleight done as a secret move.
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Postby Guest » 07/13/02 01:25 PM

Hi,

In Loraynes Aftherthoughts he claims he had come up with the move himself, but he mentions Buckley and T Nelson Downs as others who had uesd it. Where Lorayne learned the move in the first place may be one thing, but he should get credit for that he was the first who explored its possibilites. In Aftherthoughts he spends the first forty pages on the Ulta Move and routines using it. Buckley used a few lines and one trick. In this case I think Mr Lorayne can take credit and give the move a new name.

/Tommy
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Postby Guest » 07/13/02 02:04 PM

Good points "Bukka"

Curious: Can someone tell me what did Buckley called the move? (My copy of Card Control is somewhere in ohio.)
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Postby Richard Kaufman » 07/13/02 03:32 PM

Harry Lorayne may have come up with technical improvements on the move, and he may have devoted many pages to many uses of the move, but he did NOT invent the move, and he has no right to keep writing "MY Ultra Move" at every opportunity.
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Postby M. Sibbernsen » 07/13/02 03:53 PM

Originally posted by D.Conn:

Curious: Can someone tell me what did Buckley called the move?
Doug,

It is called "A Different Top Change" with the subtitle (an effect the move is used within) as "Mass Hypnotism".
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Postby Guest » 07/13/02 05:09 PM

Richard,

Your information is valid... but (IMO)presented in bad taste (deja-vu.) Your opinions may be better respected if it didn't seem like you have a vendetta against Lorayne (or anyone else you choose to dishonor.) Whatever the reason for discrediting Lorayne, your post sounds like an attack.

Think about it: Someone makes a good point, mentioning that Lorayne (independently) worked out the move (and in print he credited others, the proper thing to do.) He also worked out many applications, etc.

You respond with negativity
I believe folks whove been studying/printing/lecturing & performing the magical arts for 50+years deserve a bit more respect than that.

I have a long-standing gripe of people making personal jabs on public forums. Especially if the attackee is not available to defend himself: (I've never seen Lorayne post online. Much like I never saw Ortiz post online, until your jab.)

Curious: Do you really know Harry's stance on the history of "his" Ultra Move? Have you ever talked to Harry about the Ultra Move?

My viewpoint: I believe the move would have been forgotten if it werent for Harrys efforts.

If this thread is not locked soon (heh) perhaps we'll hear how others feel... Does anyone have a problem with Harry (or others) calling the technique his "Ultra Move"?

Perhaps you'd prefer "The Houdin/Ponsin/Downs/Buckley/Different-Top-Change
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Postby Guest » 07/13/02 06:08 PM

It takes a very special train of thought to see something more than what is. I think Harry's work on the Ultra move has stood the test of time and I am sure the people (who's work in this area inspired Harry) would have been delighted with his improvements/developemnts.

David Roth saw a greater potential in the coin sliding idea of Bertram-Daley-Dingle to develope his beautifull rendition of the Chink-a-Chink.

We need each other to further the art.

Michael Vincent :cool:
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Postby Richard Kaufman » 07/13/02 06:57 PM

Harry Lorayne has a history of printing other people's material under his own name. Since you concede that my information is valid, where is the "bad taste"?
Your notion of my having some sort of vendetta against Harry rings false: have you forgotten we printed a cover story in Genii on him that celebrated his accomplishments?
The only time Harry has admitted he was wrong in printing someone else's material under his name that I'm aware of was in the case of The Illogical Double Lift which Marlo had published earlier. Oddly, even after a mea culpa in Apocalypse, Lorayne then continued in subsequent writings to call it "my" Illogical Double Lift.
Doug, I'm sure you've read Jon's piece "Deconstructing Harry." If not, ask him and I'm sure he'll forward you a copy. Perhaps that will bring you up to speed.
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Postby Richard Kaufman » 07/13/02 07:04 PM

Oh, and Michael, the idea of sliding the coin beneath the thumb base belongs solely to Ross Bertram. After publishing "Motile" without credit to Bertram, he later acknowledged the lack of credit. Dingle learned the technique from Bertram. Roth never claimed the technique as original. It always comes back to Ross Bertram.
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Postby Guest » 07/13/02 10:43 PM

Going off topic to demean a man who has given plenty to magic is in bad taste.

Funny you should mention the Genii article, I loved it I thought it was informative and inspirational. GREAT job Jon.

In fact, that is what exactly came to mind as I was reading your post... Why the hell would you want to bad mouth Harry Loryane. Sheesh...

Your opinions are right.
...
And so are mine.

regards,
Doug Conn
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Postby EdAndres » 07/13/02 10:52 PM

Bukka said:
Buckley used a few lines and one trick. In this case I think Mr Lorayne can take credit and give the move a new name.
With that logic, if you come up with a few new ideas on ANY move you can claim it as your own. Interesting.

Doug Conn said:
Think about it: Someone makes a good point, mentioning that Lorayne (independently) worked out the move (and in print he credited others, the proper thing to do.) He also worked out many applications, etc.

You respond with negativity…
He(Bukka) also said "In this case I think Mr Lorayne can take credit and give the move a new name."

I think that may have been the trigger for a negative response.

Also if you give others "credit" for a move why call it "my".

Doug Conn said:
I believe folks who've been studying/printing/lecturing & performing the magical arts for 50+years deserve a bit more respect than that.
I think that also means they should get it.... and give it.

To me Doug Conn's book is a perfect example of how to do it(crediting) right. I guess that's why I am lttle miffed why Doug would let a mis credit be OK.
:confused:
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Postby Guest » 07/13/02 11:33 PM

Side note: Forty pages versus a few lines is a big difference. Anyway, The Ultra mis-credit is not the problem; its relevant to the topic. (Though, if nothing else, the "Ultra Move" just sounds better. Kinda like "Tilt" sounds better than "The Depth Illusion." Heh, heh)

Its the offhand jabs that bug me:
Epitome, Illogical Dbl and Halo cut (etc.) have nothing to do with the topic at hand and the unconstructive comments add nothing to the discussion.

If these matters are important,I suggest folks (research, then) start a new thread or show some real kahunas and write a freakin article for a magazine.

maybe its just me?

Doug Conn

PS: Paul Cummins gets all the credit for his superb crediting in "Tricks of My Trade"
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Postby Reinhard Mueller » 07/17/02 02:51 PM

Re: Ultra Move
See also Professor Hoffmann: Modern Magic [1876] Dover Publ. Inc. 1978, p. 31 To Change A Card (Filer la Carte) Fourth Method (With one hand only) . That description is a translation of the Posins Nouvelle Magie Blanche Dvoile (1853).
Robert-Houdin not Houdin. please! : The Secrets of Conjuring and Magic translation by Professor Hoffmann London, 1878 of Robert-Houdins Les Secrets de la Prestidigitation et de la Magie of 1868, see pp. 186 187 To Change A Card With One Hand. There you can read (!):
This is an extremely elegant piece of manipulation; but must be considered rather as a flourish than as of practical utility. However skilfully it is executed, it is impossible to disguise the operation. For this reason, conjurors, so far from affecting to make any mystery about it, rather draw attention to their elegant execution of the movement.

A taking over in the German literature of cardmagic you find in Carl Willmanns Die Kartenschule ( The School of Cardmagic) , Leizig 1900, pp. 16 18. Die Zieh-Volte (The Pull-Pass). Willmann tells the same about that sleight as Robert-Houdin !

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Postby Reinhard Mueller » 07/19/02 11:21 PM

Re: Ultra Move as a secret move
“To change or smuggle Card”, Fifth Method in Prof. Kunard: “The Book of Card Tricks” (revised ed. c.1915?), [first edition 1888], p.24: The move is performed unnoticed by the spectators, proposed misdirection is: “...,while engaged in conversation or attracting the attention to the other hand,...”.
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Postby mike cookman » 08/10/02 01:10 PM

Is the Ultra Move, or whatever it's called, worth learning? I've not learned it. I have the Buckly book, I'll consult it this evening. Thanks Richard. By the way, the Buckly Card Control book is also available at your local Borders Books and Music.
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Postby Richard Kaufman » 08/10/02 01:17 PM

The so-called "Ultra Move" can be a handy way to simultaneously display a card while moving it to second from the top, in position for a Double Lift, or simply to switch it out. The angles are a problem if you simply raise your hand since anyone not directly in front of you can see what's going on. If you continue to turn your hand so it's completely palm down (a bit more difficult), the angles improve substantially.
I came up with a method for turning the hand completely over without having to make a large circle--by tapping the jogged card with the first fingertip of the other hand and then simply HOLDING IT AGAINST THE DECK as the hand turns over and does the sleight. I gave this to Lorayne for Best of Friends, but he decided to claim the idea as his own and mentioned me only in a brief follow up. Nice guy.
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Postby Pete McCabe » 08/10/02 05:42 PM

Richard,

I have to say one of the most impressive things about Genii under your leadership is how you publish articles on people like Harry Lorayne, who you obviously have some real issues with, but you do so in a way that entirely respects their place in magic without being clouded by your personal experience.

In the closed-society world that is Magic, this is an increasingly rare accomplishment.
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Postby mike cookman » 08/10/02 06:35 PM

Thanks for the tips on the Ultra Move, Richard.I'm going to play with it and see what happens. I'll probably never use it, but it's fun to learn stuff.
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Postby Guest » 08/10/02 09:52 PM

I've played with the Lacking-A-Universally-Recognized-Moniker-For-A-One-Handed-Top-Change (aka The Ultra Move which I believe is the best known name) for quite a while, and have actually used in performance a couple times, with success better than I anticipated.

It is one of those difficult to master moves to which I frequently put in time -- usually when driving -- in hopes of eventual Mastery.

However:

Why do the move at all? Why not simply push forth a double, display it, and let the cards drop back to dealing position (a la Ultra Move), and push off the top card?

--Randy Campbell

P.S. to Richard Kaufman: I also developed, when working with and unable to properly do the Ultra Move, the "Pointing" finesse. I cede my rights, however, to you. Or Harry.
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Postby Guest » 08/11/02 07:14 PM

Randy,

You are so right...why do the ultra move at all, the Allerton move is soooo much easier and acomplishes the same thing!
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Postby Richard Kaufman » 08/11/02 07:25 PM

Mikey, I always knew you were a trouble-maker!
It's a matter of application. I believe Lorayne did develop some material in "Afterthoughts" that takes good advantage of the Ultra Move.
BUT, that was really an attempt on his part to mirror what he did with the book "Rim Shots" and the so-called HaLo Cut. The Breakless Bottom Slip cut is a far more versatile move and his applications are really good: the Ace cuttings blew us away when he first did them (as did "Goin' Fishin'"). Lorayne considered "Rim Shots" and "Afterthoughts" to be "sister" books, and they're pretty much identical (and should have been one book). BUT, Ultra is not as good as HaLo, and the routines with Ultra are not as good as the routines with HaLo.
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Postby Guest » 08/11/02 09:25 PM

Mike:

I've got the Close up Magician book, and can't figure out what move you mean; is it the turnover switch utilized in Eyepopper (p.24)? or the move in Transendence? (p. 27)

Or something altogether different?

--Randy Campbell
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Postby Guest » 08/12/02 04:14 PM

Richard,

Me a trouble maker...no-way, I'm the last of the nice guys. Obviously you are confusing me with Lou ;)

And yes, I agree...the HaLo cut is probably more versatile, and much easier to get by without the use of mega-misdirection (despite the claim of another magician claiming to have taught it to Harry)but all in all the Ultra-Move when done well, and at the right moment is still an A.K.
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Postby Guest » 08/12/02 04:18 PM

Randy,

Sorry, I'm having a pre-mature senior moment! I can't remember off the top of my head where the Allerton move is published (come on Richard, help us out)and to say any more about it would be to expose it...maybe I'll post more on it on alt.magic secrets...lol
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Postby Richard Kaufman » 08/12/02 09:36 PM

Can't recall where the Allerton Move is published. So, briefly, here it is:
Spread the deck between your hands. A card is touched. Break the spread at that point so the touched card is on top of the left-hand spread. At this moment your left thumb is holding the touched card in position, but it is ALSO contacting the left edge (side) of the card directly beneath it.
As you raise your left hand so the face of the spread is toward the audience (so they can see the touched card), your left thumb simply pulls the touched card to the left, behind the second card. The audience sees the SECOND card and assumes it's the touched card. As you now lower your left hand, either reverse the left thumb action or square all the cards. Spread off the top card and you have switched it.
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Postby Kevin Baker » 08/13/02 12:30 AM

And, as with the Ultra Move, the move can also be done by simply turning the left hand palm down as the top card is drawn back....
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Postby Guest » 08/13/02 08:15 AM

Well,

Since this topic is about Harry Lorayne, he has a version of the Allerton move in Trendsetters, called Primal Screen. If the Ultra Move (and after this long discussion Lorayne will for ever be remembered as the originator...) is a good but not brilliant move, what do you think of Primal Screen? I tried it a couple of times, its easy to do bad!

/Tommy
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Postby Guest » 08/13/02 08:58 AM

Hi Tommy,
I can do that move as smooth as silk...But that doesn't mean it isn't seen! In my opinion, there's just no hiding it. Lorayne likes it so much he kept it off of every single one of his 12 video tapes! It looks better in print, I suppose!
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Postby Bill Wheeler » 08/13/02 12:50 PM

Originally posted by John Blaze:
Lorayne likes it so much he kept it off of every single one of his 12 video tapes!
Actually Harry Lorayne performs the Ultra Move on his videos; I know this for a fact, because that is where I learned it. Some magic flyer I have nearby says it is on the 4th volume.
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Postby Guest » 08/13/02 01:45 PM

You are correct, Bill. However, Tommy brought up "Primal Screen". That is the move I was talking about. The Ultra Move is a good utility sleight. Not to be confused with Primal Screen.
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