The origin of the Flipper Coin...

Discuss your favorite close-up tricks and methods.

Postby Guest » 12/19/05 12:41 AM

Later today, under this topic, there will be an attempt to shrew some some light on the origin of the Flippercoin, as told to me by Eddy Taytelbaum and Tonny van Rhee.
Stand by... :)
Guest
 

Postby Guest » 12/19/05 01:57 AM

The following is an attempt to throw some light on the 'real' origin of the flippercoin.

It is not the intention, to start a 'new' controversy, similar to the still ongoing Lassen/Schoolcraft controversy, but to give some background, seen from the side of one of the 2 people claiming, having 'invented' the Flippercoin.

Eddy Taytelbaum from the NL, probably not known well to most of the present day magicians (look him up via goggle) did in a mail -on my request- yesterday, put on paper, some more extensive information.

Others might get and publish Swadlings view on this issue !

As a sideremark, Eddys health unfortunately currently isn't too good, so he asked me to extract the important parts re that matter out of his mail, the rest, containing his comments on other subjects and private matters.

Now, here is what he has to say:

The crude form of the trick is mine and you were one of the first to buy one. I am glad you did so at least there is one person who knows.

(Inserted by me, Werner,: This goes back to the VERY early 1960s, before 1962, as I, at that date, made an 8 mm movie capture of me, using that Flipper.
I'll put it on the net today and will make the site, where to se it, public here under this topic)


I gave or sold one to Postma who was a dear friend and when I met him after a while, he showed me the improvement and I was flabbergasted and hated myself for not thinking of it. Maybe I had, but I was not in a position to make a shell because I had no Lathe. I can't tell you the exact date.

Later, at a dutch convention, Postma met Swadling (no date here ), but Swadling should know.
Postma showed it to him and he too was flabbergasted.

I believe, Postma had three or four and sold them to him. Postma never made much of anything, he was just an amateur craftsman too.

At a later convention, they met again and Swadling confided to him, that he made a fortune with Postma's trick. I dont think that Postma objected that he was selling the trick.

Then Swadling made an addition or improvement, if you want, by adding a magnet and making the cut almost invisble. I consider these good additions and good thinking of Swadling. He is a clever mechanic.

Not too long ago, (Postma was still alive) I got a phone call from Tonny van Rhee telling, that Swadling had approached him and was asking if Tonny knew, who invented the flipper ???? coin.
Tonny, being a long time friend, told him, that is was mine.

At that time I told Tonny, that the improvement with the shell was Phil Postma's idea , being curious, I asked Tonny, what this was all about, and he told me, that since Swadling was selling the trick, he would like to enclose a small booklet, telling about the history of the trick and would like to credit everyone involved.

I applauded this guesture.

After a while, I saw an article and in the first instance I thought, this to be the sheet giving credit to whom deserved it, but nothing of this.

Then I acted by writing a letter. Don't know to whom.
Later, I got a letter from you and I consider our renewed friendschip, the best thing in connection with the flipper coin.
This date I remember, because it was near my birthday october 17th (2004).
By the way I just turned 80.

If Swadling knew it was his invention, why did he bother to ask Tonny about the origin???

I never took or asked for more credit then I deserve, and of all people, you are the best one to vote for this.

The coin through the table has never been performed in this way, before I used this method.

Inserted by me, Werner:
What Eddy refers to here, is a CTTT version where you display 3 coins and one of them penetrates the table, that was the basic routine, and this is what will be on the capture I'll put up on the net, though using my own handling for the *get ready*.

You have to understand, that the original version of the Flipper was displayed the 'other way around', meaning the coin has solely a single 'hinge' approx. at less then one third of the coins diameter, and the smal portion of the coin was on top when that coin was displayed.

Therefor this portion always had to be covered by an overlapping other coin, which so gave the appearance of 3 coins, which also was the start up of the routine, displaying 3 single coins, one of them being the Flipper and then stealing one away, bringing the Flipper into position to show still 3 coins.


The old man RINKHUYZEN ( known a 'Rink' to most magicians), a good friend of mine, was also flabbergasted, when I showed it to him, and he insisted, that I published it, so
I granted him permission to do so in the Gen.
No date known to me.

Rinkhuyzen published many more things that have been pirated also, like my four card oil and water, and my three card monte Routine, that inspired these on the market today, but who cares, not me.

Remark by me, Werner: Eddy refers here to the routine that is published under Eddys name and with his permission in Lewis Gansons *The Art of Close up Magic*, vol.1, and which builts the basis for Michael Skinners 3 card monte.
I though recall, Micahel Skinner gave credit to Eddy Taytelbaum, when Michael published his routine, I have the booklet on the shelf, but I trust my memory here, without looking it up, credit was given, but others have pirated Eddys version.


When Anverdi saw it, he came on the market with a version of three or four black disks that has been the forerunner of three fly.
Look up the Anverdi book.

What very few people know, is that this principle comes from a trick that Davenport has sold many decades ago and of which where made and sold a few also (speaking of piracy ).

For those who care to look it up , it is called THE POLES OF THE PUNDIT, as far as I recall.

All I was interested, was to give Phil Postma credit before he died.

Hope this answers the quest.
********************************************
End of the info from Eddy Taytelbaum.

Now it's up to others to get Swadling to give his site of his version...
Guest
 

Postby Guest » 12/19/05 04:15 AM

The capture is ready and extracted for an upload, however the upload site, *You Tube*, currently is upgrading their site, so no access.

I suppose, within a few hours, the site will be up and running again and I'll then upload the mentioned capture asap.

Here are the accompanying remarks to that capture in advance:

1962.. a performance using Eddy Taytelbaums Flipper Coin

This capture was done around 1962 or a year earlier, after I received the Flipper Coin that Eddy Taytelbaum custommade for me, using an old Danish DKK 2.-

At that time it was a preliminary version and wasn't made as the Flipper we know today is...no shell used.

The original preliminary version of the Flipper was displayed the 'other way around', meaning the coin has solely a single 'hinge' approx. at less then one third of the coins diameter, and the smal portion of the coin was on top when that
coin was displayed.

Therefor this portion always had to be covered by an overlapping other coin, which so gave the appearance of 3 coins, which also was the start up of the routine, displaying 3 single coins, one of them being the Flipper and then stealing one away, bringing the Flipper into position to show still 3 coins.

Here is the URL, where you can watch a performance captured in 1962, me, doing a short CTTT routine using the Flipper Coin, made to me by Eddy Taytelbaum.

Of course, today, I don't do the routine anymore, but have replaced it with the one shown at:

http://www.youtube.com/?v=twpv9fv1jqA

and a flipperless version:

http://www.youtube.com/?v=8-aSMN6u7K4

both designed to be done in stand-up situations.

When you watch the capture re Eddys Flipper, please scroll down below the screen popping up at *You Tube*, as there always is mentioned some background re the specific capture in question.
Guest
 

Postby Guest » 12/19/05 04:43 AM

Ahhh, these guys at *You Tube* are fast, as is their immediate display of a capture when entering their site...
They are the best!

Here is the URL to the capture..enjoy and read the comments in the earlier posting re the contents and background of that capture..

http://www.youtube.com/?v=i-XEpet1tuI
Guest
 

Postby Jonathan Townsend » 12/19/05 06:11 AM

Werner, Thanks so much for offering us a glimpse at the history of this wonderful coin gaff.
Mundus vult decipi
Jonathan Townsend
 
Posts: 6536
Joined: 01/17/08 01:00 PM
Location: Westchester, NY

Postby Guest » 12/19/05 06:32 AM

Originally posted by Jonathan Townsend:
Werner, Thanks so much for offering us a glimpse at the history of this wonderful coin gaff.
Thanks Jon, but the real thanks goes to Eddy!

What a shame so few magicians ever have seen him perform in his prime.

I recall once, probably in Genii, to read an article of Obie O'Brian, reporting from his travels to Europe.

He mentioned, that in the NL did met an almost boldheaded elderly gentleman by the name of Eddy Taytelbaum, that did cardmagic better then most he has ever seen.

Can't recall how long this goes back, but this article must have been in the midt 80s..

When reading it, I must admit, I did shake my head in pure disbelieve, as to anybody in Europe Eddy was well known.

He did cash in the first and second prices on all the national (NL) and a lot of FISM conventions in the cardmagic and often close-up magic category in his time, from the midt 1950 up to the 1970s or longer!.

And all of his handling was outstandingly original and sooo smooth, and none of these guys from the States ever had heared of him???

I couldn't believe it!

Look up the FISM Pricewinners at:
http://www.fism.org/PrizeWinners.htm
and
http://www.fism.org/Results1.htm

I first did met Eddy in 1959 at Enschede Holland and therefrom each year at diff. conventions for many years..

His card and close-up work was TOPS..and I mean TOPS!

Apart from this, in later years, he was mostly known for the fine appartus re close-up magic he produced..

Do a goggle search and type in his name, look at Kenna Thompsons site...
www.ktmagic.com
http://www.ktmagic.com/taytelbaum.html

What a shame, one can't upload pictures here at this board..I've some great pics of Eddy in his prime and the latest ones together with Phoa Yan Tiong...

Edited:
I just got a mail from Eddy, he DOES read the Genii board each evening, and I'll ask him again to post here to give his opinion on matters and things...
Guest
 

Postby Guest » 12/19/05 08:20 AM

Correction!!!!!
That capture in question was not done 1963 or earlier, but 1966/67.

I do know this precisely now, due to the table used in the capture, which I just had gotten in 1966, and I recall I did that 8 mm moviecapture right after and the same month I got that table.

Sorry for mentioning wrong dates unintentionally!

I had confused this with another capture taken on that 8 mm movieroll :(
Guest
 

Postby Richard Kaufman » 12/19/05 09:36 AM

The idea of using a Folding Coin to represent two coins in a spread (which is what is being referred to here as a Flipper Coin) appeared in print in, I think, 1909 in a book titled The Art of Modern Conjuring or something along those lines. There is a clear photo of a folding coin masquerading as two coins in a spread of (supposedly) three coins.
The ONLY new thing here is putting the Folding Coin inside a shell.
Subscribe today to Genii Magazine
User avatar
Richard Kaufman
 
Posts: 20009
Joined: 07/18/01 12:00 PM
Location: Washington DC

Postby Guest » 12/19/05 10:09 AM

I don't doubt Richard Kaufman is correct.

The issue however is, accordingly to the above posting containing the mail from Eddy, that Eddy wants to give credit to Phil Postma for the idea of adding that shell!

So actually the origin of the flipper as we know today (WITH the shell), is still to debat.

Swadling contra Postma.

Anybody in contact with Swadling?

Edited: Forgot...
Eddy still might have gotten the basic idea independantly to the one published in 1909.
Guest
 

Postby Guest » 12/19/05 11:50 AM

Sorry for one more posting, I try to leave it to others now..

BUT, don't forget to have a look f.ex. at:

http://www.isawthat.com/taytelbaum/

and better, if you are interested in some of the magic he has been involved and created, simply do a goggle search....

It's a shame Eddy is totally forgotten by most, at my place, he never will!

Se a picture of that guy at:

http://www.ktmagic.com/taytelbaum.html

Picture- of course- from the late 1960s, midt 1970s....
Those where the days my friend, I wish they :) never .....
Guest
 

Postby Bill Duncan » 12/19/05 09:47 PM

I'm confused Werner. This video was shot in the 1960's?

Mike's ending to the CTTT wasn't published until 1981 in Encore II.

Huh?
Bill Duncan
 
Posts: 1352
Joined: 03/13/08 11:33 PM

Postby Guest » 12/20/05 02:04 AM

Originally posted by Bill Duncan:
I'm confused Werner. This video was shot in the 1960's?

Mike's ending to the CTTT wasn't published until 1981 in Encore II.

Huh?
Bill Duncan

You didn't get it my friend :D

The video, which started as an 8mm movie, then converted to VHS-tape and lately to DVD, wherefrom I extracted that sequence, was shot in 1966.

NOTE:

This soley goes for the capture showing a young man (me) using 3 copperlike coins, where a single one penetrated the table.

THAT coin (early version of a flipper) was custommade for me by Eddy Taytelbaum.

This is covered by:
http://www.youtube.com/?v=i-XEpet1tuI

The other 2 captures:
http://www.youtube.com/?v=twpv9fv1jq

http://www.youtube.com/?v=8-aSMN6u7K4

where made a month or 2 ago, using a cheap WebCam and a Schoolcraft (sometimes Lassen) Morgan 1921-Flipper!..

You might also se:

http://www.youtube.com/?v=iozJr2JIc6g

which was the very first capture ever taken with that WebCam, after adjusting distance and sharpness and then just having a go.

That one wasn't intended to get seen by anybody, as I just babbled to myself whilst the WebCam was running, but as it turned out to look rather nicely, I uploaded it also..

Also again, pls. read what is written below the frame popping up at *You Tube*, as there are always some remarks re the contents of that particular capture.

Hope the above does explain your question ?

Any more questions ? :p

OK, whilst I am at it..hope you also saw one of my all time favourites:

Benson Bowl http://www.youtube.com/?v=NGXD6sWwZCc

And some other old stuff:

A session with Bobby Bernard 1984
http://www.youtube.com/?v=7ypxyNsOvqQ

Memories...1963 http://www.youtube.com/?v=M9AKcna0FQ4

Cigarproduction 1966 http://www.youtube.com/?v=YBz57xFBVZY

all dated correctly in the accompanying remarks :p

Edited:
Spellingerrors edited (hopefully most :) )

And...oh what the heck, here is a little move I still use for the Mini Chop Cup routine (captured 1984), maybe it's usefull for you:

Toss vanish smal ball Chop Cup :
http://www.youtube.com/?v=fbRtN3CwqPY
Guest
 

Postby Guest » 12/20/05 05:36 AM

Bill Duncan,

as you -no doubt- did fall asleep by now re all this 'old' stuff, a bit of equally silly cardmagic might get you awake again??

Nothing earthshattering, just oldfashioned classical cardwork..

And again, read the comments below the frame popping up, for credits aso...

On cardpalming... http://www.youtube.com/?v=VEXkXRJ0Anw

Colourchanging Deck http://www.youtube.com/?v=WGTdYiIwDbQ

A gem right out of Tarbell http://www.youtube.com/?v=RwB5IfGqUkY
Guest
 

Postby sleightly » 12/20/05 06:11 AM

For those who would like to see the pertinent work Richard speaks of earlier in the thread (in The Art of Modern Conjuring) see:

http://www.absomagic.com/aomc1910.pdf

No judgments, just the research...

ajp
sleightly
 
Posts: 217
Joined: 01/17/08 01:00 PM
Location: New Hampshire

Postby Guest » 12/20/05 07:45 AM

Originally posted by Andrew J. Pinard:
For those who would like to see the pertinent work Richard speaks of earlier ...
ajp
Thanks for that URL/pdf.

I recall, having seen that type of coin, with the pin, used for a penetration effect through a hat, in an old book from the german magician/dealer Conradi-Horster.

Conradi-Horster was around from 1870 to 1944 and stopped his bizz in 1929.

His book, *Das Universum der Magie* is the very first magicbook I did read, and this was around 1956 or so, but was published 1905 and 1912, se f.ex. http://www.marvelsoft.de/

The picture in the pdf looks almost exactly as the one I saw -as far as I recall- in that Conradi-book.
Guest
 

Postby sleightly » 12/20/05 08:12 AM

I should have this mentioned before, but the idea of the coin through hat also appears in this work. I have added the text to the PDF, but the images appear in the original PDF I uploaded. Look at illustration 2 on the plate.

This book has a great deal of very commercial material (from the era), I would love to find out who the original author was...

I would love to see the original source material from Conradi-Horster if you have access to it...

ajp
sleightly
 
Posts: 217
Joined: 01/17/08 01:00 PM
Location: New Hampshire

Postby Guest » 12/20/05 08:37 AM

Originally posted by Andrew J. Pinard:
....I would love to see the original source material from Conradi-Horster if you have access to it...
ajp
I actually still, do have the book, but it is stuffed away in the garage together with a lot of others 'old' german magazins like *Magie* and deslike...even Harry Stanleys *The Gen* volumes are out there.

Unfortunately, the garage is filled with lots of other stuff and the bookshelf where all these old magic books are, is burried behind all the other stuff.

Currently, and in wintertime, no chance to dig anything out.. :(

Off topic, but JFYI, I have here in the library (inside) even incredibly nicely bound volumes -bound in the old style, they don't do it anymore these days- of *Die Zauberwelt* from Willmann, volumes from 1896 to 1904.

I got these from my fathers in laws (Haakon Edeling) collection after he died in 1995, who got them bound in the 1930s or so....

On topic again, also I do recall the *through the hat* picture, I don't recall the use of that type of coin (without the pin) to be used together with another coin, to simulate 3 coins, as one of the pics on that pdf also shows..that unfortunately Ican't recall having seen in the mentioned book, but it might well have been there too..

When Eddy showed me this type of coin around 1959/1960, I simply looked at it as a variation of a normal folding coin.

When he did his routine, similar in effect then on that demo I uploaded, nobody hadn't a clue -neither me, what type of gimmick he used, and when it was revealed, it somehow was *new* to anybody...
Mind you, this goes over 40 years back..

Edited:
What I call 'outhouse' is by my american friends called garage. So the earlier 'outhouse' above is replaced now by a garage...it's just a shame as my 'garage' has a normal sized door so I can't pass through with my car..
Aren't americans strange??
They have garages where a car can't get into? :D
Guest
 

Postby Jacky Kahan » 12/20/05 10:33 AM

Hello,

regarding : "Art of Modern Conjuring", i have a few questions :
-who can tell me more about this book? origin? year?
-is it the same as "The boy's book of conjuring" ?
-i also have another not anonymous version by Henri Garenne "Art of Modern Conjuring" but with a different table of content
-also. Why is the order of the table of content not chronological?

thanks...

Jacky
www.magicbooks.be
Jacky Kahan
 
Posts: 391
Joined: 03/16/08 04:55 PM
Location: Belgium

Postby John LeBlanc » 12/20/05 11:15 AM

Originally posted by Werner G. Seitz:
but it is stuffed away in the outhouse
Ah, the abiguities of the English language. Not that I'm suggesting there's anything wrong with having reading material in the outhouse. And I'll be the first to admit an old magic book sure beats a new People Magazine.

John
http://www.escamoeurettes.com/blog/
John LeBlanc
 
Posts: 866
Joined: 01/17/08 01:00 PM
Location: Houston, TX

Postby Guest » 12/20/05 11:47 AM

Originally posted by John LeBlanc:
Originally posted by Werner G. Seitz:
[b]but it is stuffed away in the outhouse
Ah, the abiguities of the English language. Not that I'm suggesting there's anything wrong with having reading material in the outhouse. And I'll be the first to admit an old magic book sure beats a new People Magazine.

John
http://www.escamoeurettes.com/blog/ [/b]
Yes ;) :D , a friend just notified me what 'outhouse' means in the english language..
Sorry....
What I should have written was 'garage', but you se, here in DK a garage always is for a car normally (my definition) also most ppl stuff things into their garage too.

But basically I always interpreted 'garage' as a place for ones car, with not much space for other stuff, IF the car also was inside.

What we here in DK call an 'outhouse' actually is mostly a smaller house (this one is 12 m2) with windows and a normal door.

Ppl use it often for having a workingbench and that kind there.

Here an outhouse even can have heating aso and of couse electricity..

Anyway...one is always learning, and good for that..
I now will always call my 'outhouse' for a 'garage', even it's illogical to me, because my car never could pass through the normal sized door :D :p
Guest
 

Postby Pete Biro » 12/20/05 01:35 PM

They are often, in Rural Areas, referred to as "Out Buildings" (tools and work areas).
Stay tooned.
User avatar
Pete Biro
 
Posts: 7124
Joined: 01/17/08 01:00 PM
Location: Hollyweird

Postby Randy DiMarco » 12/20/05 03:30 PM

Around here we call these out buildings "sheds". Garages are for cars.
Randy DiMarco
 
Posts: 146
Joined: 03/13/08 03:45 PM

Postby Jonathan Townsend » 12/20/05 04:17 PM

Originally posted by Randy DiMarco:
Around here we call these out buildings "sheds". Garages are for cars.
Is is still a shed when you furnish and heat it? Inquiring minds want to know.
Mundus vult decipi
Jonathan Townsend
 
Posts: 6536
Joined: 01/17/08 01:00 PM
Location: Westchester, NY

Postby Evan Shuster » 12/20/05 07:37 PM

Originally posted by Jacky Kahan:
regarding : "Art of Modern Conjuring", i have a few questions :
-who can tell me more about this book? origin? year?
-is it the same as "The boy's book of conjuring" ?
-i also have another not anonymous version by Henri Garenne "Art of Modern Conjuring" but with a different table of content
-also. Why is the order of the table of content not chronological?
www.magicbooks.be
I have this book and was happy to learn of the year of publication, mentioned in Richard's post (my copy has no date). The table of contents (not the book) is divided into categorical sections (ie -- once you get to the 3rd chapter--: Cards Tricks, Coin Tricks, Handkerchief Tricks, Tricks With Chemicals, Parlour Tricks, Hat Tricks, etc...). Each section is made up of related effects which are listed alphabetically. This accounts for why the order of the table of contents is not "chronological" -- (I assume you mean in order, by page number). Interesting tidbit... my edition of the book was given to me by Willard Smith, from his personal library, shortly before he died.
Evan Shuster
 
Posts: 701
Joined: 01/17/08 01:00 PM
Location: Seattle


Return to Close-Up Magic