UNUSUAL OUT OF THIS WORLD

Discuss your favorite close-up tricks and methods.

Postby Larry Horayne » 07/13/02 01:24 PM

Years ago Harold Martin showed me a very different version of Out Of This World. All I can remember is--the deck is stacked red/black/red/black, etc. to start. The spectator can cut the deck, face up, and, as long the deck was cut to a red and black split, the spectator can shuffle the deck one time. I vaguely remember Harold telling me it had something to do with Gilbert's Principle of Compensation. Anybody ever hear of this?
Larry Horayne
 
Posts: 78
Joined: 07/20/08 09:22 AM

Postby Guest » 07/13/02 01:53 PM

The Gilbreath principle. One of those beautiful mathematical things that even mathematicians scratch their heads over.
Guest
 

Postby Pete Biro » 07/13/02 03:00 PM

In my opinion... Grant's Impromptu OoTW beats them all... shuffled, borrowed deck, no stack.
Stay tooned.
User avatar
Pete Biro
 
Posts: 7124
Joined: 01/17/08 01:00 PM
Location: Hollyweird

Postby M. Sibbernsen » 07/13/02 03:16 PM

I agree with Pete. U.F. Grant's version "Nu Way Out of This World" is excellent. Eugene Burger's small touches to the method makes it even better.

For those who don't mind a little set-up, Paul Harris's "Galaxy" is wonderful.

I sent a video of a my own "Hemisphere", an ultra clean version of a Daryl effect to Richard (via a labyrinthine route) to be written up for publication in Genii. I don't think it ever reached him. Maybe I should send it again. A really nice and "unusual" piece.
M. Sibbernsen
 
Posts: 96
Joined: 03/14/08 09:46 PM

Postby Larry Horayne » 07/13/02 04:26 PM

Thank you, one and all...

www.SandySinger.com
Larry Horayne
 
Posts: 78
Joined: 07/20/08 09:22 AM

Postby M. Sibbernsen » 07/13/02 05:07 PM

Sandy,

Forgot to (try and) answer your original question...

You can find some excellent effects on the Max Maven video set (one per tape) using the Gilbreath Principle. An excellent way to see it in use.

Also, a little booklet called "Gilbreath's Principles" by Reinhard Muller (1979), not only goes into detail about the principle and card effects to be accomplished with it, but also gives a great deal of historical references to the principle.

One such reference is to an Out of This World variant by Marlo and Maurer, in what I believe to be a French journal. You can also find Marlo's first work with the principle in the Nov. 1959 issue of the Linking Ring (one year after Norman Gilbreath first published the principle in the same journal.)
M. Sibbernsen
 
Posts: 96
Joined: 03/14/08 09:46 PM

Postby C. Hampton » 07/13/02 05:27 PM

Pete Biro said:
In my opinion... Grant's Impromptu OoTW beats them all... shuffled, borrowed deck, no stack.
I do the version explained by Harry Lorayne in one his booklets, I believe is called my favorite card tricks.
His version is also improptu. I was wondering if you can point out the differences between the Grant's version and Lorayne's if any.

Thanks in advance.
Carlos Hampton
www.damainquieta.com/conferencias
C. Hampton
 
Posts: 340
Joined: 06/05/08 12:51 PM

Postby M. Sibbernsen » 07/14/02 12:38 AM

Sandy,

Upon further research, I may have found an easy to find source for the effect you were inquiring about.

See "Color Separation" in Garcia & Schindler's book "Magic With Cards".

Best,

MS
M. Sibbernsen
 
Posts: 96
Joined: 03/14/08 09:46 PM

Postby M. Sibbernsen » 07/14/02 01:48 AM

Originally posted by Carlos Hampton:
I do the version explained by Harry Lorayne in one his booklets, I believe is called my favorite card tricks.
His version is also impromptu. I was wondering if you can point out the differences between the Grant's version and Lorayne's if any. Thanks in advance.
The Lorayne version "Out of This Universe", if performed as outlined in his book "Close-up Card Magic" is quite convoluted (but still very good). I suspect most people who perform it may in fact be doing a scaled down variation.

As listed in Close-up Card Magic, the handling sequence of events (and this is *after* the open separation ruse- which is a different effect altogether) is...

1) Deal four Bridge hands, and reassemble.
2) Allow spectator to deal four bridge hands at random.
3) Two freely selected quarters shuffled together, the other two then shuffled together.
4) The two halves shuffled together.
5) Spectator deals the cards at random into two piles.
6) These two piles are shuffled together.
7) Spectator deals three piles
8) Performer predicts number of red and black cards in center pile.
9) Remaining piles shown to be all red, and all black respectively.

Quite an exhausting effect, but also very perplexing. If one is going for a "challenge" piece, this is certainly it. Perhaps it is best suited for formal performances, or as an effect "for the boys."

The Grant Nu Way Out of This World is certainly more elegant, and much closer to the original OOTW. The biggest difference to the original being that the deck is freely shuffled, and the first half of the pack dealt by the magician who looks at the cards (into piles chosen by the spectator).

The Grant version as viewed by Eugene Burger, while wonderful, still suffered from two of the same "problems" as in the original. In his booklet "Intimate Power", Eugene effectively solves these problems through presentation. He also emphasizes the point that with the Grant variation you do not need to use the entire deck. In other words, the deck can be shuffled by the spectator, and a portion (perhaps a 3rd) used for the effect. This makes for an even more economical effect, and perfect for table workers.

With these things in mind, the two aforementioned variations of OOTW are quite contrary to one another. Each has strengths depending on what the performer is looking for.

Hope this was of help.
M. Sibbernsen
 
Posts: 96
Joined: 03/14/08 09:46 PM

Postby Paul Cummins » 07/14/02 03:30 AM

2) Allow spectator to deal four bridge hands at random.
3) Two freely selected quarters shuffled together, the other two then shuffled together.
4) The two halves shuffled together.
7) Spectator deals three piles
8) Performer predicts number of red and black cards in center pile.
9) Remaining piles shown to be all red, and all black respectively.

Since Lorayne published it, I've been doing the routine with only the above steps. It still rocks, but is considerably shorter...

Paul
Paul Cummins
 
Posts: 123
Joined: 01/24/08 01:00 PM
Location: Jacksonvile, FL USA

Postby M. Sibbernsen » 07/14/02 04:42 AM

Originally posted by Paul Cummins:
I've been doing the routine with only the above steps. It still rocks, but is considerably shorter...
Trimming the fat. Much better Paul.
M. Sibbernsen
 
Posts: 96
Joined: 03/14/08 09:46 PM

Postby C. Hampton » 07/14/02 05:53 AM

The Lorayne version "Out of This Universe", if performed as outlined in his book "Close-up Card Magic" is quite convoluted (but still very good). I suspect most people who perform it may in fact be doing a scaled down variation.
No that is not the one I was talking about. The one I used is on page 26 of "My favorite Card Tricks" and is called imprompty out of this world.
Is this the same thin that the Grant version???? :D
Carlos Hampton
www.damainquieta.com/conferencias
C. Hampton
 
Posts: 340
Joined: 06/05/08 12:51 PM

Postby Jeff Pierce Magic » 07/14/02 06:13 AM

Here's the approach that I came up with based on the original. It eliminates one spectator having to deal all the cards (which cuts the time involved in half), and eliminates the midway switch. It also adds a nice display of the seperated cards at the end.

Feedback would be appreciated.

TWO DEGREES OF SEPERATION by Jeff Pierce

CREDIT: Paul Curry for Out of This World.

SETUP: Separate the deck by colors, with all the blacks except two on the top of the red
cards. Insert two black cards toeards the bottom of the red stack. Bend
the top black stack with a downward bend to facilitate cutting the cards latter.
NOTE: This routine will work best if the 2 spectators are sitting next to each other.
You will want to be standing between them at the end.

PRESENTATION: Give the deck a few false shuffles as you ask Spectator 1 and 2
(pick a mother, daughter boyfriend girlfriend, or husband, wife team) ask them if they
believe in intuition. say, "We're going to conduct a little test of your intuitive powers.
Spread through the deck with the cards facing you and remove 2 black and 2 red cards.
(Don't let anyone see the faces of the rest of the deck and make sure there is a
seperation between each pair of cards.) Explain that these are their leader cards as
you table them face up in red black order in front of each spectator.

Tell the 2 spectators that they will work together to test their intuition. Cut the deck
where the two colored stacks meet and hand the black stack to spectator 1 on your left side,
and the remaining red card stack to the spectator on your right. Tell the spectators that
they are to deal the cards face down onto either color, but to deal them onto the color that
they think their partner would choose. Have them deal their cards face down on either the red
or black leader cards until they exhaust their stacks.

HERES WHERE YOU SHOULD BE: You are standing between the two spectators, each have a red
and a black card face up in front of them with a number of face down cards on each stack.

THE FINAL DISPLAY OF SEPERATION: Standing between the two spectators, reach down and pick
up both the face down stacks on top of the face up red leader cards, leaving the leader cards
on the table. Place the right hand stack ontop of the left and drop the stack face down on
the table. Repeat with the remaining stacks on the black leader cards. Drop this on top of
the face down stack on the table.

NOTE: You will notice that you picked up the 2 supposed red stacks together, then the 2 black
stacks and placed these together on table. What we need here is some time misdirection.

Reach down with both hands and slide the 4 leader cards together in a row in the
center between the 2 spectators. Make sure the there is about 3 inches between
each of the leader cards. They should still be in red black red black order.
Pick up the tabled deck and table spread the cards from left to right below
the 4 leader cards. The deck will display in red black red black stack order.
This is quit a visual display of separated colors.

2001 Jeff Pierce Magic
visit my website at:
www.jeffpiercemagic.com
Jeff Pierce Magic
 
Posts: 619
Joined: 01/17/08 01:00 PM
Location: Orlando, FL

Postby M. Sibbernsen » 07/14/02 06:29 AM

Originally posted by Carlos Hampton:
No that is not the one I was talking about. The one I used is on page 26 of "My favorite Card Tricks" and is called impromptu out of this world.
Is this the same thin that the Grant version?
Ah, thank you Carlos. Two different versions of OOTW by Lorayne. This clears up some confusion. I have not read the aforementioned booklet, so I don't know if they are the same. It is certainly possible.
M. Sibbernsen
 
Posts: 96
Joined: 03/14/08 09:46 PM

Postby Ryan Matney » 07/14/02 06:44 AM

I like Harris's Galaxy becuase there are no exchanging of packets and of course the spectator can shuffle.

However,I don't think I have ever used a full deck version of OOTW. I much prefer the small packet versions like Elmsley's "Underworld."

Also, Peter Duffie has an odd offshoot of the plot called "world's apart" and I use that pretty often. It plays well.
Ryan Matney
 
Posts: 729
Joined: 01/18/08 01:00 PM
Location: Hurley, Va

Postby Guest » 07/14/02 01:10 PM

When performing Out of this Universe, after you have the four hands dealt and you have shuffled the three packets back together, it strengthens the effect by pointing out that you have shuffled the deck "4 times" and then another three times making a total of seven times you have shuffled the deck.

After you have the deck divided and you shuffle them together again you then point out that you have now shuffled another 2 times plus one more time making a total of 10 times you have now shuffled the deck. Then once you have them deal the three packets, you state that "Do you think that after shuffling a deck 10 times that you could seperate exactly ten red from ten black cards...that would be a pretty remarkable trick don;t you think?" (Of course they answer yes).

After you show the 20 cards, then state that "but if anyone ever told you that after shuffling a deck exactly ten times that you could seperate each and every black card from each and every red card, you would be a very remarkable person."

PSIncerely Yours,
Paul Alberstat
http://www.mindguy.com
Guest
 

Postby Guest » 07/17/02 10:46 AM

I also love Lorayne's Impromptu Out of this World, though I made some small modifications to it to suit me better.

Basically, the spectator can supply and fully shuffle the deck. the magicians takes it and puts down a leader card for red and black piles and pulls cards at random from throughout the deck and places them in the pile the spectator says. After 10-15 cards, the new leader cards are laid down, the remaining deck is shuffled and the spectator is able to take cards off the top of the deck and place them into whichever pile they choose. again, 10-15 cards later they can stop where it is revealed they separated the cards properly.

When I perform this, I tend to make a small routine with a color separation theme. I'll usually begin with the Lennart Green angle separation as we both look at the cards to memorize their order and make sure they're all there. A shuffle and a cut later and they're separated into red and blacks. If the spectator supplied the deck, it's a good time to ask them what kind of rigged deck is this, and pretend that you can only do tricks with normal decks and not these magic store ones.

Then I'll do the OOTW above, which keeps them involved as a part of the effect. This has made them an active participant in two effects. Rather than watching magic, they're making it.

Finally, I love to end with Paul Harris' Perfectionist routine. I let them shuffle the separated deck a bunch. Often, when they hand the deck back, I'll ribbon spread it face up and make them shuffle it more since it wasn't random enough. Perfectionist, for those who can't recall, is a great routine where you openly separate the reds from the blacks (after you've just had them shuffle it many times ;) and split each half into 2 more piles giving you 2 piles of red cards and 2 of black. then you shuffle 1 pile of reds into 1 pile of blacks, face up, then the other piles. upon spreading the halves, they are all back to the same color. you do it again, and they separate once more. finally you decide to trick the deck and shuffle the red halves together and the black halves together and ribbon spread them both face up showing they are clearly all red and all black. suddenly they are fully shuffled, red mixed with black, in the blink of an eye.
Guest
 

Postby Mike Fordice » 07/26/02 06:29 AM

I wanted to mention another OOTW plot called "Prediction Out of this World," You'll find it in the book "The Commercial Magic of J.C. Wagner" by Mike Maxwell.

There are a couple of things I like about this routine. (1) it uses a deck shuffled by the spectator
(2) it uses only about half the deck, thus making it a somewhat shorter trick than using the whole effect.

The spectator sucessfully separates reds and black, but there are a few errors. The number of errors (mis-matches) was predicted before you began!

Check it out as an alternative approach.

mike :)
Mike Fordice
 
Posts: 12
Joined: 01/19/08 01:00 PM
Location: Randolph, NJ

Postby CardFan » 07/26/02 09:11 AM

Just wondering where the U.F. Grant version can be found.

Thanks!
CardFan
 
Posts: 73
Joined: 01/21/08 01:00 PM
Location: New York, NY

Postby Guest » 07/28/02 12:13 PM

I found my UF Grant manuscript on eBay, but it took quite a while before someone placed it for auction.
I may be hard to find.
Guest
 

Postby Guest » 07/28/02 01:57 PM

ooops. Typo. "It" may be hard to find.
Guest
 

Postby Dave Shepherd » 07/30/02 03:12 PM

Joey wrote:
Just wondering where the U.F. Grant version can be found.
I got mine just recently from Hank Lee. It only costs a couple bucks (just like the singleton manuscript for the Curry trick).

After seeing Burger's lecture last winter, I wanted to do the right thing. I hope I have: the Hank Lee pages do not mention U.F. Grant's name at all, just the title, "Nu-Way Out of This World."

I actually prefer a couple touches in that one to some of the improvements that Eugene taught. I do prefer Eugene's final display, though.
Dave Shepherd
 
Posts: 423
Joined: 01/17/08 01:00 PM
Location: 15 miles w. of Washington, DC

Postby Paul Mocarski » 02/07/09 04:58 PM

The routine referred to by the original poster is Worlds Apart by Peter Duffie. Ben Harris applied this principal to "Invertz" in Off the Wall. In Harris' routine, along with the color separation you locate the cards of two spectators in a novel way. My experience is that you must stress throughout how mixed up the cards are or the spectator may not realize what happens at the end.
Paul Mocarski
 
Posts: 8
Joined: 02/07/09 04:53 PM

Postby Harry Lorayne » 02/07/09 05:15 PM

Just saw this very old thread and I know that nobody will read this, but I don't really care; I'll feel better when I post this. I got a bit of a laugh when people described my Out Of This Universe, and talked about "trimming the fat." They referred to when I start the routine, ask if the spectator knows how to play bridge (which is entirely immaterial), and I demonstrate by dealing two rounds (that's EIGHT cards) then say then you can deal haphazardly, etc. Then I scoop up those few tabled cards, the impression being that it simply doesn't matter. And we're talking about all of about 7 seconds, if that, when I do it. Trimming the fat? Please! You're missing the damn point. Aah; feel better now. HL.
Harry Lorayne
 
Posts: 951
Joined: 01/22/08 01:00 PM
Location: NY

Postby Harry Lorayne » 02/07/09 05:17 PM

PS: One poster said that omitting that 7-second, or less, demo/explanation makes the routine "considerably shorter." Sure, by a few seconds, BUT NOT AS GOOD!!
Harry Lorayne
 
Posts: 951
Joined: 01/22/08 01:00 PM
Location: NY

Postby David Alexander » 02/07/09 05:27 PM

Harry, Close-up Card Magic was one of the best "investments" I ever made when I bought a first edition back in 1962 when $10 was a lot of money to a 17-year-old.

A few years further on I built my close-up card repetoire on a few things Jay Ose taught me and your book. I didn't need anything else as what Jay taught me and what I got out of your book was more than enough.

I worked for the Trader Vic Organization at their Century City restaurant for almost three years and your material was a great help. Now, several decades later, I still rely on several of your routines learned in those early days. Many thanks.
David Alexander
 
Posts: 1550
Joined: 01/17/08 01:00 PM
Location: Aurora IL

Postby John McDonald » 02/07/09 06:40 PM

Wow this thread started 7 years ago......record?
Best John
John McDonald
 
Posts: 318
Joined: 01/17/08 01:00 PM
Location: Chester, UK

Postby Paul Mocarski » 02/07/09 07:04 PM

Harry: I've done Out Of This Universe as described in the book and have had great reactions. The first time I did it, I chose not to do any follow up routines because the reaction was so strong and the amazement level was so high. I didn't want the next item to end up being a let down.
Paul Mocarski
 
Posts: 8
Joined: 02/07/09 04:53 PM

Postby Paul Mocarski » 02/07/09 07:08 PM

I was surprised it took seven years for the anonymous poster to get an answer to their question. Someone did mention Worlds Apart, but didn't explicitly state that this was the effect. Hopefully "Anonymous" is still lurking out their someone and has their answer. If it's not Worlds Apart, I don't know what routine it would be. Is anybody aware of any other routines along the lines of Worlds Apart or Invertz? In my small library, they are the only two I am aware of.
Paul Mocarski
 
Posts: 8
Joined: 02/07/09 04:53 PM

Postby Philippe Billot » 02/08/09 10:31 AM

Please, who can tell me where and when John Kennedy's version of OOTW was published ?
Philippe Billot
 
Posts: 924
Joined: 01/17/08 01:00 PM
Location: PARIS - FRANCE

Postby Jim Maloney » 02/08/09 12:29 PM

It was in Genii, back in the 80's, from what I recall. It was called "Red and Black". I have an exact reference somewhere...I'll see if I can find it for you.

-Jim
Books and Magazines for sale -- more than 200 items (Last updated January 10th, 2014. Link goes to public Google Doc.)
Jim Maloney
 
Posts: 706
Joined: 07/23/01 12:00 PM
Location: Central New Jersey

Postby Joe Pecore » 02/08/09 01:12 PM

Philippe Billot wrote:Please, who can tell me where and when John Kennedy's version of OOTW was published ?


Genii March 1989 (Vol 52, No 9) page 560
Share your knowledge on the MagicPedia wiki.
User avatar
Joe Pecore
 
Posts: 1710
Joined: 01/17/08 01:00 PM
Location: Northern Virginia

Postby Philippe Billot » 02/08/09 01:26 PM

Thanks for Jim and Joe.
Philippe Billot
 
Posts: 924
Joined: 01/17/08 01:00 PM
Location: PARIS - FRANCE

Postby 2061x » 02/27/09 01:34 AM

Can anyone mention where Peter Duffie's Worlds Apart was published?

Thanks.
2061x
 
Posts: 17
Joined: 01/17/08 01:00 PM
Location: Left Coast

Postby Paul Mocarski » 02/28/09 05:50 PM

Card Zones, page 84 is where Worlds Apart can be found.
Paul Mocarski
 
Posts: 8
Joined: 02/07/09 04:53 PM

Postby bikoz » 03/24/09 06:22 AM

Joey Corpus wrote:Just wondering where the U.F. Grant version can be found.


Here, for $3 only (eBook):
http://www.lybrary.com/this-world-p-3146.html
bikoz
 
Posts: 1
Joined: 03/24/09 06:16 AM
Location: Bordeaux, FRANCE

Postby Lucas Sanou Reed » 06/15/09 08:54 AM

I find that Derren Brown's version of OOTW is simply stunning. Personally, I think that it's one of the best out there since the spectator shuffles the cards and makes two piles (not four) of red and black. No stopping after 26 cards. Yet the piles found to be all red and all black. The balance of the effects are largely psychological and require "people handling"

-From a shuffled deck (by a spectator)
-Very straightforward without, without the "confusion" of Paul Curry's or U.F. Grant's version (I mean the switch of colors in each pile)
-100% Impromptu
-No gaffs nor gimmicks
-No stack or setup whatsoever
-Repeatable

The trick can be found in Derren Brown's DVD "The Devil's Picturebook - The Professional Card Repertoire of Derren Brown" along with eleven other tricks, some with psychological twists. You can only buy it from his website www.derrenbrown.co.uk. It's located in the password protected products page. It's cost is 40 GBP which is 65 USD.

Check out this website for a full description of the contents:

-Sleights and technique required to know in order to successfully perform the tricks.
-Moves and sleight taught within the DVD.
-The name of the trick and a brief of them synopsis.

Website: http://forums.ellusionist.com/showthread.php?t=17003
Lucas Sanou Reed
 
Posts: 18
Joined: 06/15/09 06:59 AM
Location: Spain

Postby The Magic Apple » 06/16/09 12:57 AM

I hear there is a book coming out that is entirely dedicated to Out of This World....I wonder it will actually be released??
TheMagicApple.com
818-508-9921
Follow us: @The_Magic_Apple
The Magic Apple
 
Posts: 807
Joined: 01/23/08 01:00 PM
Location: Studio City, CA

Postby Dustin Stinett » 06/16/09 01:52 AM

You tell us Brent!
User avatar
Dustin Stinett
 
Posts: 5650
Joined: 07/22/01 12:00 PM
Location: Southern California

Postby The Magic Apple » 06/17/09 01:55 AM

soon I hope...soon (this year for sure)
TheMagicApple.com
818-508-9921
Follow us: @The_Magic_Apple
The Magic Apple
 
Posts: 807
Joined: 01/23/08 01:00 PM
Location: Studio City, CA

Next

Return to Close-Up Magic