Need credit and where it is help...?

Discuss your favorite close-up tricks and methods.

Postby TOBIAS » 05/12/04 02:51 AM

These are a list of passes I know. But am not sure where they are writen up. I would like help to track down the first place they where published and by whom. I hate talking to people and not knowing the names of people and not knowing where I can point the person to the credits, so that they might find the work for them selves.
1) Classic pass
2) Classic cover pass
3) Riffle classic pass
4) Dribble pass
5) Middle packet pass
6) Look at bottom classic pass
7) Classic pass cut
8) Jiggle pass
9) Half a jiggle pass
10) Herman pass
11) Dribble Herman pass
12) Spring Herman pass
13) Midnight shift
14) Malone shift
15) Lepaul spread pass
16) Jack Carpenter conve. pass
17) PS pass
18) Wrist turn pass
19) SWE shift
20) Erdnase one hand shift
21) Table edge pass
22) Wrist tilt Herman pass
23) Water fall pass (cascade control)
24) Pull up sleeves Herman pass
25) Half pass
26) Bluff pass
27) Coach roach pass
28) Float pass
29) Lepaul Invisible turn over
30) Circle shift
31) Justin Haynes stand up pass Herman
32) Side swipe shift
33) Tan Hock Chuan pass
34) Marlo Thompson bluff pass
35) Snap pass
36) Pocket pass
37) GM shift
38) Black pass
39) Sprong hinge pass
40) Hollingsworth floating pass
41) Hong Kong pass
42) Coffin pass
43) Free turn pass

Any help would be great.
Thank You... :genii:
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Postby Guest » 05/12/04 06:19 AM

Sorry, I'm going to have to let this pass! :)
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Postby Adrian Kuiper » 05/12/04 06:21 AM

Unless you're writing/publishing a book or routines, why is it necessary to know the provenance of every move you make?

Will the credit be part of the routine? "That last pass was courtesy of Richard Kaufman, from his excellent work "On the Pass". "This next double-lift is based on a little-known Vernon move that was uncredited in an 1947 pamphlet, all copies of which were destroyed in a barn fire."

Seems like there has to be a better way to "fritter away" your time.

Maybe it's just me....
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Postby Guest » 05/12/04 06:32 AM

This list gives some names as a starting point.
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Postby Jim Maloney_dup1 » 05/12/04 06:40 AM

Originally posted by Adrian Kuiper:
Unless you're writing/publishing a book or routines, why is it necessary to know the provenance of every move you make?

Will the credit be part of the routine? "That last pass was courtesy of Richard Kaufman, from his excellent work "On the Pass". "This next double-lift is based on a little-known Vernon move that was uncredited in an 1947 pamphlet, all copies of which were destroyed in a barn fire."

Seems like there has to be a better way to "fritter away" your time.

Maybe it's just me....
I believe he already answered your question in his post: "I hate talking to people and not knowing the names of people and not knowing where I can point the person to the credits, so that they might find the work for them selves."

Also, I think it's great that he wants to know the history of his magic. It's often interesting to see where things came from, and will sometimes shed a new light on things. Knowing the history behind your magic often leads to deeper and more meaningful magic -- instead of just doing a bunch of moves strung together, you're part of a rich history. Even if it's never addressed openly in performance, there's no question that the knowledge of the subject comes across to the audience. If you don't believe me, find any top performer and see if he's ignorant about magic history. I doubt it.

Finally, what's wrong with simply wanting to know the history for it's own sake? To you it may be a waste of time, but to someone else it may provide endless hours of fascination.

-Jim
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Postby Andi » 05/12/04 08:50 AM

I won't for one minute pretend I know all of the credits that you are looking for, or in fact that I can do all of the moves. I am a Pass fanatic myself though so since I've got a spare few minutes, I've written up thes ones I do know.

I'm not at home at the moment, so sorry some credits are vague - I don't have access to my books.

1) Classic pass

I once read that the first known written explanation of the Classic Pass appeared in the original French edition of New Recreations in Physics and Mathematics.

2) Classic cover pass

This is said to be Ellis Stanyon's move, but there is a little controversy as to whether he actually created it.

3) Riffle classic pass

See Edward Victor's Magic of the Hands for one of the first Passes of this type.

7) Classic pass cut

Although I don't think it was the first method explained, take a look at Classic Pass False Cut in The Complete Works of Derek Dingle Book.

8) Jiggle pass

See Jiggle Pass And Variations - a book by Ellias and Taylor. The contents of this book was also published in Epilogue.

9) Half a jiggle pass

Kaufman and Krenzel's DVD both have handlings.

13) Midnight shift

See Graveyard Shift - Richard's Almanac (Winter Extra 83-84)

14) Malone shift

Gary Ouellet's book, The Pass contains a description of this.

15) Lepaul spread pass

You might mean A Flourish And A Pass from The Card Magic of Le Paul

18) Wrist turn pass

Marlo's Magazine Vol 2 and Tops Magazine (see MINT Volume 2)

19) SWE shift
20) Erdnase one hand shift

Both 19 and 20 are from Expert At The Card Table

21) Table edge pass

It's on the Cardician DVD - not sure where else

23) Water fall pass (cascade control)

In Card Finesse Volume 2, Racherbaumer mentions that Miller shared it in a letter to Fawcett Ross in 1936. I believe the Card Finesse explanation is the Paul Choose handling endorsed by Miller.

24) Pull up sleeves Herman pass

Jay Sankey has the Sleeves Up Pass - I saw him do it in one of his lecures and am not sure if he published it.

25) Half pass

I'm told that this was published in Testament de Jerome Sharp in the late 1700's.

28) Float pass

See Green Magic Volume 1

29) Lepaul Invisible turn over

This was published in The Card Magic of Le Paul

30) Circle shift

This is Larry Jennings. It was published in Richard's Almanac and later in Jennings '67.

33) Tan Hock Chuan pass

See Card Finesse and Heirophant

34) Marlo Thompson bluff pass

Card Finesse Volume 1

35) Snap pass

This is Jon Racherbaumer's from the Heriophant

37) GM shift

See Richard's Alamanac for this Gene Maze pass.

38) Black pass

See Ultimate Card Secrets by Dai Vernon.

40) Hollingsworth floating pass

This is in Drawing Room Deceptions

43) Free turn pass

This is Bruce Cervon's from Ultra Cervon

--Andi
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Postby Carl Mercurio » 05/12/04 08:52 AM

Here's a couple of others for your list.

1. Top Card Cover Pass, Clinton Burgess, Stanyon's Magic

2. All Around Square, Bruce Cervon, Ultra Cervon.

3. Slow-Mo Pass, Simon Lovell

You might consider sending an email to Randy Wakeman, who is a pass maven...or Jamy Swiss...
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Postby Jim Patton » 05/12/04 09:58 AM

An earlier description of what is, effectively, the Wrist Turn Pass may be found on p. 70 of Camille Gaultier's Magic Without Apparatus. Beginning in the middle of that page a method for concealing the pass, credited to J. N. Ponsin and apparently originally published in his Nouvelle Magie blanche devoilee, is outlined.
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Postby Guest » 05/12/04 11:16 AM

14. Richard Kaufman's Secrets Draun From Underground, 1993, pp. 42-43
23. Genii, Vol. 6, No. 6, June 1972
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Postby Joe Z » 05/12/04 12:24 PM

I believe the first mention of the riffle classic pass was in Elliot's Last Legacy published in 1923.

Joe Z.
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Postby CHRIS » 05/12/04 01:50 PM

Why don't you go to my Magic Lineage Project , go to 'moves' and scroll down to 'Pass' and 'Riffle Pass'. You will find some answers there.

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Postby TOBIAS » 05/12/04 06:04 PM

Thank you all so very much. I want to know for my self and for people I talk to magician wise. I also would love to hear of any other passes I might have missed. I love home work. I am an entertainer (magician) for a living. Although I love hearing the stories of old. And knowing where some thing comes from means you respected the person enuff to remember.

A great man once said,
"A man that doesn't know his past has no furture..."

Your in better magic,
TOBIAS
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Postby Ryan Matney » 05/12/04 09:16 PM

Tobias, Maybe you should learn a few tricks too. :D


Bill Malone also published the 'pulling up your sleeves' cover for the Herrman pass in MAGIC around 97. Is this what you mean?
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Postby TOBIAS » 05/13/04 01:04 PM

Ryan Matney

I do Magical Entertaining as a trade. This is my only job, and I have been doing it for a number of years. Although when I jumped into magic I learned from a number of different places. I never bothered learning names. I didn't know that many magicians. Now that I am getting know in this field I find it important to speak properly. I would hate to say some thing out of context. So please know that I am well practiced and have a very good working knowledge of this craft.

But thank you for the concern...

Yours in better magic,
TOBIAS

P.S. I am shooting a instructional DVD on my effect, practice ideas, and work. I will be doing lectures and just want to know where things come from. I do as much research as possible. I would hate not to credit some one or miss credit some thing. OH by the way these passes are not in this DVD. I was just doing some home work.

Thanks again :genii:
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