Okay! How about....

Discuss your favorite close-up tricks and methods.
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Okay! How about....

Postby Guest » August 27th, 2001, 7:20 pm

How about the hardest effect, move or sleight you`ve worked on? Either a marketed effect or an effect from a book / video?

Mine has got to be Ray Kosbie`s Raise Rise.

Ive been doing this as a background project for a few months now and Im still not getting anywhere!

Saying that though. Ive found an excellent way of squaring the deck with my pinkie! :)

Larry Horowitz
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Re: Okay! How about....

Postby Larry Horowitz » August 28th, 2001, 2:24 pm

The Pass. I've been practising this move for 30 years.

Guest

Re: Okay! How about....

Postby Guest » August 31st, 2001, 8:29 pm

Kosby's Raise Rise=The Holy Grail of Difficult Card Moves. And my pass still stinks too. Hehehe. I'll be happy when I can do a perfect faro everytime without ever having to fidget and wrestle with the deck...

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Richard Kaufman
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Re: Okay! How about....

Postby Richard Kaufman » August 31st, 2001, 9:38 pm

The Most Difficult Sleight on the planet is Dr. Jacob Daley's Double Peek and Bilateral Side Steal in Expert Card Technique: I DEFY you to find anyone who can do it!
Spoot, here are a few tips on the Faro Shuffle. The first is the MOST important:
ALWAYS shuffle from the bottom upward, NEVER from the top downward. It is MUCH easier.
Also, use the pinky as a table on which to rest the packets (this is explained in The Complete Works of Derek Dingle). Using your pinky takes all the pressure off your shoulders and arms, giving you much greater control.
Good luck
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cardstuntman
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Re: Okay! How about....

Postby cardstuntman » August 31st, 2001, 10:31 pm

how about the larry jennings one hand bottom palm. I have tried for a couple of years to get it. I don't get it. whats the cover for it? is it movement? did anyone ever see larry do it? how did it look?
s.p.

Bill Duncan
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Re: Okay! How about....

Postby Bill Duncan » August 31st, 2001, 10:52 pm

Originally posted by Richard Kaufman:
The Most Difficult Sleight on the planet is Dr. Jacob Daley's Double Peek and Bilateral Side Steal in Expert Card Technique: I DEFY you to find anyone who can do it!

I'm not familier with Dr. Daley's technique but Martin Nash had a triple peek side steal to second, third and fourth from the bottom. He used it with a greek deal to destroy magicians (and laymen).
I had the pleasure of seen Martin do this and it was cleanly done.

I don't know if it's the hardest sleight in the world but it's not easy...

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Richard Kaufman
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Re: Okay! How about....

Postby Richard Kaufman » August 31st, 2001, 11:00 pm

Scotty,
The Jennings One-Hand Bottom Palm is the victim of extremely poor written descriptions. It is NOT that difficult to do: Try the following.
1) Do NOT allow the deck to rest flatly on your palm--its inner end must be elevated at least an inch and a half
2) Move your left first finger to the right long side of the deck, beside the second finger--it is NOT at the outer end of the deck.
Even with these two points added, you'll still find it impossible to reach beneath the deck to the inner left corner with your pinky ... so here's the vital tip:
3) Using your left fingers, rotate the deck COUNTER-Clockwise, so the inner end swings to the right. In other words, you're really just extending your fingers WITHOUT opening them. It's tough to explain without a drawing. You'll find that your left pinky can now easily reach beneath the deck to the inner left corner of the bottom card. Next, you have to be able to use the back of the pinky to peel down that one card--not so tough. Then, simply straighten your left second, third, and pinky fingers and the card will automatically rotate into full palm. The deck is held in place by the thumb and first finger only.
Try it and let me know how it works.
3)
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Re: Okay! How about....

Postby cardstuntman » September 1st, 2001, 9:07 am

thanks for the details richard. I have the mechanics of the move. the problem I have is that as poor as the discription is in the c.m.o.l.j. the work on the misdirection is worse. I would like to see someone do it someday or not for that matter. ha. I just saw mike maxwell a few weeks ago and he couldn't give many anything. I have spoke with another fellow who had the pleasure of seeing larry do it and he said it looked like a flourish. that doesn't sound right. any thoughts on the cover? thanks again.
s.p.

[ September 01, 2001: Message edited by: Scotty Phillips ]

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Re: Okay! How about....

Postby Richard Kaufman » September 1st, 2001, 11:21 pm

Hi Scotty,
Many times Jennings did the sleight and it was totaly invisible. He was usually moving his LEFT hand at the same time, letting it swing down to hang at his left side, or pulling open his right lapel with his right hand at the same time, etc. There are lots of ways to use the sleight invisibly.
Think in terms of a larger movement covering a small movement, the basis of most successful sleight of hand, and you'll find a way to provide cover.
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Re: Okay! How about....

Postby Guest » September 2nd, 2001, 6:08 am

The One Hand Bottom Palm...

The Jennings method DOES work, and even moreso with R.K.'s addition. This is the only move I've ever worked on that is kind enough to give me paper-cuts. How Pleasent.

j.H.

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Re: Okay! How about....

Postby Guest » September 2nd, 2001, 9:00 am

Originally posted by Justin Hanes:
The One Hand Bottom Palm...

E.E.'s Erdnasish palm is better.


Where can I find a description of this palm in print?

Thanks,

Peter Grning

Jon Racherbaumer
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Re: Okay! How about....

Postby Jon Racherbaumer » September 2nd, 2001, 1:28 pm

Check pp. 234-235 in THE CLASSIC MAGIC OF LARRY JENNINGS (1986) where LJ applied it to his "Ambidextrous Travelers."

Although it is not a one-handed variation, students may enjoy reading (or re-reading) Roger KLause's two Bottom Palms published in CARD CAVALCADE FINALE (1979), pp. 47-60. In Roger's hands, these cannot be detected.

Onward...

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Tom Stone
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Re: Okay! How about....

Postby Tom Stone » September 2nd, 2001, 2:21 pm

Originally posted by Jon Racherbaumer:
Check pp. 234-235 in THE CLASSIC MAGIC OF LARRY JENNINGS (1986) where LJ applied it to his "Ambidextrous Travelers."

Hi Jon,

I think that Peter is wondering where he can find "E.E's" version, and by extension, who this "E.E" is.

My guess is that it is Ernest Earick (spelling?), as that is the only name I can think of with those initials and have an interest in techniques like that. But my guess might be wrong. Justin?

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Re: Okay! How about....

Postby Ed Oschmann » September 3rd, 2001, 3:52 pm

Ernest Earicks one-handed bottom palm can be found in his book-By Forces Unseen (Hermetic Press) in the Routine Bureau d'Echange. This is indeed a palm worth taking the time to master, however, his variation of the Marlo/Jennings "convincing control" is REALLY worth mastering. It is by far IMHO the best work on this type of control. It is not that difficult to master and easily the most deceptive (and practical)move in my arsenal.

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Re: Okay! How about....

Postby Guest » September 3rd, 2001, 5:29 pm

Originally posted by Tom Stone:

Hi Jon,

I think that Peter is wondering where he can find "E.E's" version, and by extension, who this "E.E" is.

My guess is that it is Ernest Earick (spelling?), as that is the only name I can think of with those initials and have an interest in techniques like that. But my guess might be wrong. Justin?


Yes Tom, your guess was correct.

Jon, I've been playing around with Jennings' bottom palm, but since I have experienced difficulties trying to get it invisible, I thought I'd give E.E.'s "new" variation a shot.

Thanks Ed for pointing me in the right direction.

Peter Grning

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Re: Okay! How about....

Postby Carl Mercurio » September 3rd, 2001, 8:09 pm

Spoot...Another good way to faro is the Eddie Fechter technique. See Magician Nightly. It's for out-faros only. And it's not meant for use in a 26-26 split, but for faros when you don't need to do the whole deck it's the best I've seen.

Ed Oschmann
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Re: Okay! How about....

Postby Ed Oschmann » September 3rd, 2001, 10:15 pm

In regards to the Jennings one-handed bottom palm. My right arm covers the right side of the deck as I'm reaching for a marker (or some other object)with that hand. My arm obstructs the movement of the card being swung out from the deck.
Hope this helps?!

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Richard Kaufman
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Re: Okay! How about....

Postby Richard Kaufman » September 3rd, 2001, 11:14 pm

Two Notes:
First, I just want to correct something that Justin Haines wrote. I did NOT add anything to the Jennings One-Hand Bottom Palm technique that I described--that is exactly how Jennings did it. The description of the sleight in every book in which it has appeared is simply wrong. This is true of MOST of the sleights explained in both The Classic Magic of LJ and The Cardwright.
Second, in regard to Ed Ocshmann's description of Convincing Control as being something credited to "Ed Marlo/Larry Jennings," I thought this myth of crediting Marlo for this sleight had been put to rest in Jennings '67. I will repeat it, however, for those who have not read it there: The basic sleight belongs to Edward Victor. The move as we know it was created by Larry Jennings and STOLEN by Ed Marlo. Period!
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Re: Okay! How about....

Postby Guest » September 4th, 2001, 8:19 am

Originally posted by Ed Oschmann:
My right arm covers the right side of the deck as I'm reaching for a marker (or some other object)with that hand. My arm obstructs the movement of the card being swung out from the deck.
Hope this helps?!


Thanks Ed! I'll try it.

Speaking of Convincing Control (and similar stuff). "Versatile Cardmagic" by Frank Simon is full of great spread-control material.
I love this type of control and have tried to develop different applications for the move (multiple locations etc).

On a side note, Tom Stone will publish a cool variation of his in the next issue of channel One.

Peter Grning

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Re: Okay! How about....

Postby Ed Oschmann » September 4th, 2001, 10:17 pm

Apologies Richard. Difficult to fathom truth from fiction especially in regards to Marlo. Just tried to cover the bases. :confused:

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Re: Okay! How about....

Postby Richard Kaufman » September 4th, 2001, 11:43 pm

No problem, Ed, some things just set me off. As far as Marlo goes, Convincing Control, Atfus, and The Shank Shuffle all REALLY piss me off. In the case of Convincing Control, Al Sharpe described a sleight he'd seen Jennings do to Marlo over the phone. Marlo then worked out his handling and published it with no credit to Jennings.
In the case of Atfus, the sleight is Alex Elmsley's and was published, I think, in The Gen. Later Marlo improved the technique, adding breaks where Elmsley used crimps, but the mechanics and end result were identical, of course Marlo gave NO credit to Elmsley.
As far as The Shank Shuffle, this was a farce from the beginning--a bold-faced attempt to steal credit from Herb Zarrow.
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Guest

Re: Okay! How about....

Postby Guest » September 5th, 2001, 9:08 pm

Thanks for the tips fellas. My faro is still hurting though..hehe. Carl, is the technique you referred to called the straddle faro? Someone was showing me this technique the other day....it sounds similar..

Rick Franceschin
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Re: Okay! How about....

Postby Rick Franceschin » September 7th, 2001, 11:31 pm

One move that I still can't do consistently is D'Amico's one handed double lift. I can get maybe two clean ones out of every ten tries. Any suggestions?


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