Coin Matrix - which do you recommend

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Coin Matrix - which do you recommend

Postby Guest » December 11th, 2002, 6:58 am

Which coin matrix or Assembly do you all like the best? Further, which are the best video's out there demonstrating how to do your favorite routines?

Ray Eden
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Re: Coin Matrix - which do you recommend

Postby Ray Eden » December 11th, 2002, 8:59 am

Recently I've been playing with David Regal's handling, but I think my favorite is David Williamson's "Floating Assembly" matrix.

Ray Eden

Guest

Re: Coin Matrix - which do you recommend

Postby Guest » December 11th, 2002, 9:24 am

I'm sorry, but I forgot to add that I'm looking for routines that don't include any gimmicks or gaffs. Just regular coins and/or cards. Thanks again,
Lou

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Re: Coin Matrix - which do you recommend

Postby Tom Dobrowolski » December 11th, 2002, 9:28 am

The original by Al Schneider.

I had the opportunity to see him perform it earlier this year at a lecture here in the Chicago area and it is great. You need to see it to see what started all the variations. As Al Schneider mentioned in the lecture the way the effect was originally performed is quite different than most of the variations since. He has a clip of it on his website.

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Re: Coin Matrix - which do you recommend

Postby Pete Biro » December 11th, 2002, 10:44 am

Once again, the originator is the best!
Stay tooned.

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Re: Coin Matrix - which do you recommend

Postby Jonathan Townsend » December 11th, 2002, 12:13 pm

Originally posted by merlou:
Which coin matrix or Assembly do you all like the best? Further, which are the best video's out there demonstrating how to do your favorite routines?
You can find the original coin assembly in "The Art of Magic" by T. Nelson Downs from 1909.

Many have taken the premise and changed things to suit their needs. It helps to try the original and see how it works for you.
Mundus vult decipi -per Caleb Carr's story Killing Time

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Re: Coin Matrix - which do you recommend

Postby Pete McCabe » December 11th, 2002, 4:39 pm

By the way the original was written up by Al Schneider himself in Genii a while back (across two, or was it three, issues). Can't remember what issue(s), or if they're available from back order, but this is definitely the place to start your exploration.

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Re: Coin Matrix - which do you recommend

Postby Jeffrey Cowan » December 11th, 2002, 5:08 pm

Bob Kohler's Reverse Matrix in Impossibilia by John Bannon. It's clean, efficient, and a typical Kohler killer.
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Pete Biro
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Re: Coin Matrix - which do you recommend

Postby Pete Biro » December 11th, 2002, 5:18 pm

John Kennedy sells a beauty of a gaffed version (coins not gaffed) and Bornstein(SP?) sells "silent coins" that allow you to do pickups on a bar top, glass table, slick surface, no mat needed...

If so many magicians weren't doing Matrix I might consider working on it again.

Remember Goshman's version of Vernon's Queen's Soiree?
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Re: Coin Matrix - which do you recommend

Postby Jonathan Townsend » December 11th, 2002, 10:27 pm

Originally posted by Pete Biro:
If so many magicians weren't doing Matrix I might consider working on it again.
What is Matrix?

Will it still work if i wear shades and don't take my blue pill?
Mundus vult decipi -per Caleb Carr's story Killing Time

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Re: Coin Matrix - which do you recommend

Postby Jeff Haas » December 11th, 2002, 11:45 pm

Jonathan,

Yank Hoe's "Sympathetic Coins" trick, as described by Downs, has always been to me a penetration effect. You spread a handkerchief out, put four coins on the corners, cover up two of them (eventually, after shifting the cards around a bit) and then pick up a coin, make it penetrate up through the cloth, and it ends up under one of the cards. All the coins end up in one corner, under one of the cards, but this is because they supposedly went up through the cloth. There is a lot of handling of the covers and the coins during the trick.

Al Schneider's original "Matrix" is a significantly different effect: Four coins are placed in a square. Each coin is covered up with a playing card. You gesture, pick up two of the cards, and one of the coins has moved from under one card to another. Repeat twice more so all the coins gather in one corner, under one card.

The key difference in Matrix is that after the coins are set down on the table, they are not touched. They are covered up by the cards, and then you uncover them and they have moved.

I haven't liked most of the variations of this effect that have been published over the years, mostly because they lose sight of what made the original so powerful: You apparently do nothing. You cover up the coins, gesture, and then uncover them and they've moved. You don't pick up the coins, flip them in the air, do some funny move where you slide the coin off the card and into your left hand, fan your left fist with the card, and then show the coin gone.

Matrix, like ThreeFly, Ace assemblies, or Twisting the Aces, is one of those very simple, direct effects that spawned lots of variations which clutter up the premise. It's simple and magical, and somehow it invites the kind of flashy tinkering that clutters the pages of many closeup books.

Jeff

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Re: Coin Matrix - which do you recommend

Postby Jonathan Townsend » December 12th, 2002, 12:07 am

Originally posted by Jeff Haas:
... It's simple and magical...
What is your feeling about the Roth coin assembly (- the one coin bit and the rock at end) or the chink-a-chink?
Mundus vult decipi -per Caleb Carr's story Killing Time

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Re: Coin Matrix - which do you recommend

Postby Terry » December 12th, 2002, 5:13 am

Check out Paul Cummin's Matrix routine. It is in the FASDIU Vol 1 notes and the 'Up in Smoke' video. It utilizes 2 bills (instead of cards), 4 half dollars + suprise kicker at the end.

http://www.fasdiu.com/Products.htm

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Re: Coin Matrix - which do you recommend

Postby KenAbbott » December 12th, 2002, 6:34 am

I like about anything that Roth does. I liked the Stonehinge asembly when I saw it on video. But, after going to the library to get some good pictures to laminate, as well as get a good rock for the finally, it didn't seem to go over very well. When I asked around, I was told it took to long to set up the premise, and was too academic.

I now just do the Schneider version. I like his way of magically moving the coins over before lifting the cards. People don't seem to get the notion that you are merely lifting the coin with the card, as the coin has supposedly already moved.

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Re: Coin Matrix - which do you recommend

Postby Mike Powers » December 12th, 2002, 3:27 pm

Be careful about mentioning "kickers", especially directly after Jonathan's post!

Mike

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Re: Coin Matrix - which do you recommend

Postby Mike Powers » December 12th, 2002, 3:28 pm

Check the work of Dave Neighbors in the Matrix area. He has really mined the matrix concept. You'll find many interesting routines in his notes and publications.

Mike

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Re: Coin Matrix - which do you recommend

Postby Chris Aguilar » December 14th, 2002, 8:39 am

For those who haven't seen the original matrix as performed by Schneider, he has posted it on the web!

Check out his website here.

http://www.worldmagiccenter.com

Don't forget to also read his in depth "theory of magic" on the same site.

Wonderful stuff.

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Re: Coin Matrix - which do you recommend

Postby Pete Biro » December 14th, 2002, 10:23 am

Thanks for the link, but I couldn't get the videos to open.. argh :eek:
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Re: Coin Matrix - which do you recommend

Postby Chris Aguilar » December 14th, 2002, 2:37 pm

Originally posted by Pete Biro:
Thanks for the link, but I couldn't get the videos to open.. argh :eek:
Mac user?

If so, make sure to download the latest version of the "windows media player" from microsofts site.

I believe that they have a mac version of it if thats what you need.

Or if you're *not* a mac user, then make sure you go to this download page and get the latest version of the media player. The following link contains downloads for all the latest versions for all supported operating systems. (including macs)

http://www.microsoft.com/windows/window ... efault.asp

Guest

Re: Coin Matrix - which do you recommend

Postby Guest » December 16th, 2002, 8:59 pm

Hi all,

Tabby Crabb made a real interesting matrix routine called "Las Vegas poker chip assembly." It used 4 $25 poker chips instead of coins. They assembled once, and the second time, there was a $100 poker chip instead of the 4 original chips.

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Re: Coin Matrix - which do you recommend

Postby mike cookman » December 17th, 2002, 11:38 am

Paul Gertner's That's Ridiculous is a pretty magical routine.

Guest

Re: Coin Matrix - which do you recommend

Postby Guest » December 18th, 2002, 12:10 am

I agree with Biro, the Schneider original matrix it's the best. I've studied lots of them, but I prefer doing it faster than Schneider, because that way the coins looks like appearing instantly under cards, I prefer using stealing technique by Ubago ( magician never touches coins, and can be done very slowly).
The most difficult versions are Bertram (stars of magic) and Aurelio Paviato's version with reverse ending(the routine he did when he obtained 1st price mundial chapionship.)
Nowadays the reverse method I love is Dean Dill, because the reverse it's not an surprise encore ( like in siamese coins by gallo, a very good reverse concept) in Dill version the reverse it's a challenge final miracle.

Guest

Re: Coin Matrix - which do you recommend

Postby Guest » December 31st, 2002, 2:56 am

There are lots of Matrix , or Coin Assembly routines....
3 of My favorite Coin Assembly would be
Mark Lefler's "Reversi" (which can be found in Collected Almanac by Richard Kaufman) :)

Homer Liwag's version of Chink A Chink which all four coins suddenly appear at one coner of the square.(can be found in Chris Kenner's Magic Man Examiner) It's a good follow-up for David Roth's Chink A Chink or Ammar's Shadow coins :p

and...
Yoshihiko Mutobe's "3 Coin Assembly" (which can be found in Magic of Japan by Steven Magic Emporium) It's amazing!! You got to see Mr. Mutobe do it. :eek:

If you are Serious Coin Worker, you must check them out. ;)

Guest

Re: Coin Matrix - which do you recommend

Postby Guest » December 31st, 2002, 6:15 am

I do a slightly modified version of Motile, written up in Bobo. Four half dollars, two cards, no handkerchief quasipenetration as in Sympathetic Coins; very clean. Humans like it.

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Re: Coin Matrix - which do you recommend

Postby GAMOLO » December 31st, 2002, 4:08 pm

I prefer the Al Schneider routine myself.

TIP: Frequently, you will find yourself about to follow someone who has just done a coin matrix/assembly.
On those occasions, rather than bagging the concept, since the audience has been warmed up to it, I pull out the old Joe Givan's idea of using buttons instead of coins. The moves are the same, and Joe's idea of having (prior) sewen four buttons onto one of the corners of the face side cloth is a dynamite climax that really elicits a laugh....and the audience gives you credit for having "built" on the effect that the performer before you displayed.

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Re: Coin Matrix - which do you recommend

Postby Jonathan Townsend » December 31st, 2002, 5:19 pm

Originally posted by George Wang:
There are lots of Matrix , or Coin Assembly routines...3 of My favorite Coin Assembly would be...If you are Serious Coin Worker, you must check them out. ;)
Anyone got any good presentations for this effect? I tried to ask above (the remark about the movie of the same name) and would like to know what works for others. :) -Jon
Mundus vult decipi -per Caleb Carr's story Killing Time

Guest

Re: Coin Matrix - which do you recommend

Postby Guest » February 21st, 2003, 1:45 pm

My favorite matrix routine is Dean Dill's "Tonight Show Matrix." One of the strongest close up routines in existence!

It can be found on his Intimate Close Up Magic video, which has an accompanying book. :rolleyes:

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Re: Coin Matrix - which do you recommend

Postby Richard Kaufman » February 21st, 2003, 6:09 pm

I like Al Schneider's original, and he explained it in extreme detail in our February and March issues for 2000.
The best reverse assembly is, as George Wang has noted, Mark Lefler's "Reversi" from the second Symposium book, and I reprinted it in "Richard's Almanac." This is an assembly with four ungimmicked coins and two cards, yet it has an instant reverse at the end and is nothing short of brilliant.
Routines with cover (and there is a nice chapter on this in Bruce Elliott's book "Classic Secrets of Magic" called "Two Covers ... Four Objects") are very different from those with no cover. Roth's "Chink a Chink" is the seminal no cover routine with coins. It is a brilliant and purely visual piece of magic. It needs NO patter. The routines which Michael Ammar and Chris Kenner have performed, the so-called "Shadow Coins" ARE essentially Roth's original routine with little variation.
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Re: Coin Matrix - which do you recommend

Postby sleightly » February 21st, 2003, 10:18 pm

I'll second Richard's comments about Mark Lefler's "Reversi". The most efficient (and elegant) handling for this premise. A true gem that outperforms in the real world. Thousands of performances later and I count it as a real worker!

ajp

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Re: Coin Matrix - which do you recommend

Postby Jonathan Levey » February 22nd, 2003, 12:42 am

Paul Wilsons "Unholy Gathering" is a nice change from the original matrix's.
The effect in brief: Four holes are punched in each corner of a signed playing card and then the magician proceeds to slide the holes (one at a time) so they all gather to one corner, the card is then handed out for examination).

Another nice matrix (with backfire), which only uses four un-gimmicked coins and no cards is Jason Alfords "Spare Change"... I think it was once published in an issue of "MAGIC" Magazine. But I can't remember which issue.. (It looks almost just as good as shadow coins, but without the gaff and has an instant reverse at the end.
Sincerely,
Jonathan =)

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Re: Coin Matrix - which do you recommend

Postby Guest » February 22nd, 2003, 4:15 am

What do you guys think of Kohler's routine "Two Ahead" (published in Bannon's Impossibilia)?

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Re: Coin Matrix - which do you recommend

Postby Jacky Kahan » February 23rd, 2003, 2:15 am

Tom Stone has a great coin assmembly,"Impromptu Assembly" It's a quick flash effect. One of my favourites...It's published in one of his Warpsmith books...

cheers
jacky

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Re: Coin Matrix - which do you recommend

Postby Robert Kane » February 23rd, 2003, 8:28 am

Very interesting thread. It has sent me back to my books and videos.

I am a big fan of Gerry Griffen's adaptation of Matrix from his Metal Miracles video. Gerry's version has some neat "convincers" or perhaps a better word is concealments which make it a joy to learn and perform.

As Ralph Bonheim aptly states, "Humans like it."
I like it too. :)

At the recent WMS, I also had the opportunity to see Dean Dill in action at his dealer table. His Matrix work is simply stunning.

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Re: Coin Matrix - which do you recommend

Postby Ira Rush » February 25th, 2003, 10:26 am

Aside from the Matrix routine by Al Schneider...

You may want to take a look at a routine by Derek Dingle called "Four Coins in the Countin" which appears in "Dingle's Deceptions" and a some what more streamlined version that appears in "The Complete works of Derek Dingle".

It also appears on the video "Dingle's Deceptions", and it is great to look at.

It is a very, very tough routine to learn, but no gaffs, no gimmicks, just pure magic.

Take a look, I think you may like this one!

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Re: Coin Matrix - which do you recommend

Postby Jonathan Townsend » February 25th, 2003, 10:41 am

Originally posted by merlou:
Which coin matrix or Assembly do you all like the best?
I don't know...the two by two assembly is cute. nothing to do with matrices though.

Just how is the trick with four tokens and four covers supposed to relate to matrices? Or for that matter the movie with two sequels due out later this year?

For better or worse, at least the "Queen's Soiree" has a plot. Taking this to the next step of using envelopes and having the cards assemble inside the envelope(s) offers some context. The coin plot really needs some work.

Here are some musings...
Associating the trick with the movie or the math might offer entertaining possibilities. The green closup pad might be played up as circut board. The array of four coins might be augmented by a couple of rows or columns of coins, or even by another 'matrix' for some uses.

What are your thoughts?
Mundus vult decipi -per Caleb Carr's story Killing Time

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Re: Coin Matrix - which do you recommend

Postby Marc01 » February 25th, 2003, 10:01 pm

I was a subscriber to Richard's Almanac,so I have the complete collection.I was unable to find the Mark Lefler's Routine Reversi.
Was it added as a bonus to the binded volume?

Marc

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Re: Coin Matrix - which do you recommend

Postby Chris Aguilar » February 26th, 2003, 8:27 am

Originally posted by Marc01:
I was a subscriber to Richard's Almanac,so I have the complete collection.I was unable to find the Mark Lefler's Routine Reversi.
Was it added as a bonus to the binded volume?

Marc
Yes, it's only in the "complete Almanac" as far as I know. (In that book, Richard says it was meant for the regular issues, but didn't make it in for some reason)

Very very clever routine.

Guest

Re: Coin Matrix - which do you recommend

Postby Guest » March 7th, 2003, 8:19 pm

Bill Malone also does a Matrix effect on his "On the loose" series.

I am not sure if it was the same as the original one though.

Unholy gathering is really cool.... I have yet to perform it because I have yet to get the hold puncher... :p The normal hole puncher which punches two holes won't do.

Oh a side note, I wonder if "Hollow" the moving holes effect is actually the same thing?

Guest

Re: Coin Matrix - which do you recommend

Postby Guest » March 7th, 2003, 9:43 pm

Thanks for the heads-up on Lefler's reversi.

Lefler's routine is at page XLV which is about 30 pages in from the very front of the book, including the copyright and other misc pages. It's the last trick in "The other Richard's almanac" and is just one of several really killer routines in that section, including some good advice by Ken Krenzel on the turnover pass, and another routine called "Cheating the Greek" which I've been working on for a few weeks now.

I just looked Reversi up tonight and spent an hours on it, which is enough time to convince myself that this is really a great trick. I can't wait to spend some time on my poor left hand classic palm and adding it to my repetoire.

Many of the the local magic hounds around here in Minneapolis/St. Paul area are very familiar with Al Schneider's Matrix since he lives in the area and this is a nice addition to a set containing his wonderful Matrix routine, which is one of my favoirites. Does anybody who can do Lefler's routine well have an mpeg from the spectators viewpoint of their work on this really well though out illusion?

Every time I look through that book I find another gem that's obscure enough to seem 'new' to just about any of the IBM or SAM'ers in the area (including myself, I admit). I'm mostly a card and dice guy. My coin work, especially a really natural classic coin palm needs some work, but simple knock-em-dead coin tricks are intriguing me more and more. This provides an excellent opportunity to really start working with coins again. What other masterpieces am I missing in the Almanac?

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Re: Coin Matrix - which do you recommend

Postby Carl Mercurio » March 12th, 2003, 9:04 am

I used J.C. Wagner's "Poor Man's Matrix" at the bar and get a very good response.


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