Coming soon! New ACAAN - Order of the Holy Grail

Discuss your favorite close-up tricks and methods.

Postby Guest » 12/22/07 01:42 PM

Check out this thread on the Cafe

http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/view ... orum=218&2

Please send me an email if anyone has any questions!
Guest
 

Postby Bob Farmer » 12/22/07 04:47 PM

Frank, I'm annoyed that you've decided to use the expression "Holy Grail" for your trick. That will simply cause confusion with my effect, "The Bammo Dekronomicon -- The Holy Grail of Card Magic Discovered At Last."

I used this expression first for this sort of effect. Perhaps, you could spend another minute or so and come up with something more original.
Bob Farmer
 
Posts: 1664
Joined: 01/17/08 01:00 PM
Location: Short card above selection.

Postby Guest » 12/22/07 09:06 PM

Hi Bob

I would be willing to accept some name suggestions and if I liked it I might make a name change. I respectfully don't see an issue with the my trick's name and how it conflicts with your trick's name.

Another ACAAN trick was also called the Holy Grail by Mike Rose. Your trick's name is not named anything like "Holy Grail" but Bammo Dekronomicon.

Even a new torn and restored trick on the Cafe is named "The Holy Grail". I geuss it is getting out of hand.

By the way, I have Bammo Dekronomicon and I like it very much!

Thanks!
Frank
Guest
 

Postby Bob Farmer » 12/23/07 05:42 AM

There is only ONE Holy Grail of card magic and it is The Bammo Dekronomicon. All others are pretenders and poseurs.
Bob Farmer
 
Posts: 1664
Joined: 01/17/08 01:00 PM
Location: Short card above selection.

Postby Guest » 12/23/07 06:12 AM

Patrick Raymond in Canada make her formidable version, 15 yars ago with two ordinary decks.
with no sleights, no switches,nO gaffed and gimmicked cards .
sorry the clip is in french .

http://www.dailymotion.com/fondouble/vi ... alisme_fun
Guest
 

Postby Guest » 12/23/07 07:30 AM

Bob

I geuss yours is THE Holy Grail as long as you wear baggy pants with deep pockets while performing it!

Frank
Guest
 

Postby Bob Farmer » 12/23/07 08:55 AM

Frank, like your use of "Holy Grail," your reply only adds confusion. Don't steal my line for your trick -- come up with your own idea, it's only polite.
Bob Farmer
 
Posts: 1664
Joined: 01/17/08 01:00 PM
Location: Short card above selection.

Postby Guest » 12/23/07 10:17 AM

Bob

OOTHG only uses ONE deck and multiple cards can be shown at different numbers. Can't do that with Bammo...

I had called this trick "The Holy Grail" eighteen months ago when I created it. I added "Order of" to the title recently when I saw a Torn and Restored Card trick named "Holy Grail" on the Cafe.

Magically
Frank V.
Guest
 

Postby Guest » 12/27/07 10:13 PM

Fellow Magi's

The demo is now available for viewing "Order of the Holy Grail". The version demo'd was NOT a perfect hit so you can see how easy it really is!

The demo can be viewed at:

http://www.precisionmagic.com/News.htm

The download will be available for purchase on January 1, 2008 for one week. After the download period is over, a shipment will be sent to Murphy's which includes complete instructions and deck included. Once Murphy's has them, then your favorite dealer will have them soon after.

Thanks!
Frank
Guest
 

Postby Guest » 12/28/07 12:07 PM

I looked at the demo and I have to make some comments.

You have the person pick a number, then you stick the cards in the box, just to hand them the box and say, "take them out".

The timing is bad. If the sticking of the cards in the box is needed for the effect, this should be done before the number is picked.

If this is not possible, there needs to be more time delay because it really makes no sense in the video.

As far as the whole "Holy Grail" thing, I hate that term used for any effect, I didn't even realize Bob used it with his, because Dekronomicon is so wonderfully Lovecraftian that I didn't need to read anymore.
Guest
 

Postby Mark Collier » 12/28/07 01:15 PM

This is not really Any Card At Any Number much less The Holy Grail.

This is pick a card, put it back where you tell them to, then have them name a number while you are holding the deck.

Then as Scott points out, box the deck, immediately unbox the deck and count down to find the card that was 'picked'.
Mark Collier
 
Posts: 374
Joined: 01/18/08 01:00 PM
Location: Santa Barbara, Ca

Postby Brian Marks » 12/28/07 02:48 PM

I just invented the Holy Grail of card tricks. Its where Harrison Ford and Sean Connery show up and and find your card in wooden cup being guarded by a 500 year old guy from an SAM meeting.
Brian Marks
 
Posts: 918
Joined: 01/30/08 01:00 PM
Location: Nyack, NY

Postby Guest » 12/28/07 03:05 PM

I agree completely with Mark. This is at best a selected card at chosen number.

Also to add to Scott's observations there is way too much handling of and fidgeting with the deck. Certainly not a step forward.

For selected card at any number it's hard to beat Barrie Richardson's version.
Guest
 

Postby Steve Snediker » 12/28/07 03:33 PM

I'll stick with Bob and Tom's comments...but I'd love to get my hands on a great walk-around magic table like the one you use.

What? It's a piano bench? No wonder you are sitting on the floor.

Seriously, I wouldn't mess with all the "busy-ness" around handling the deck and I certainly wouldn't tout this home brew video as a demo. Presentation really is EVERYTHING, my friend.
Steve Snediker
 
Posts: 85
Joined: 01/17/08 01:00 PM
Location: Northwest Arkansas

Postby Guest » 12/28/07 04:32 PM

Hello -

I understand what everyone is saying BUT

Regarding the card case, I patter that once the carda are in the case that the cards are isolated and cannot be tampered with. The spectators are holding the card case cupped with both hands. I recap what has occurred so far so the opening of the card case later is justified as it has kept the cards "safe" from any tampering.

I did not have enough time to really demo the effect on the video. I want to re-shoot it...

Like I said, I have never been questioned returning the cards to the box by laymen. As magicians we tend to overthink our processes and procedures. Many laymen have mentioned and said "You put the cards in the box so I know you could not touch them". WOW!!

As I always say "I let the spectators decide how I perform my effects. It is YOUR best feedback you can get".

For the magicians that prefer not using a card case, there will be TWO alternative handlings for NEVER using the card case by both Dr. John Aime and Christopher Williams.

They are both excellent and diabolical handlings and will be included in the download and instructions.

I hope this answers everyone's concerns...

Thanks
Frank
Guest
 

Postby Guest » 12/28/07 11:23 PM

Originally posted by Frank Velasco:
Hello -

I understand what everyone is saying BUT

Regarding the card case, I patter that once the carda are in the case that the cards are isolated and cannot be tampered with. The spectators are holding the card case cupped with both hands. I recap what has occurred so far so the opening of the card case later is justified as it has kept the cards "safe" from any tampering.

I did not have enough time to really demo the effect on the video. I want to re-shoot it...

Like I said, I have never been questioned returning the cards to the box by laymen. As magicians we tend to overthink our processes and procedures. Many laymen have mentioned and said "You put the cards in the box so I know you could not touch them". WOW!!

As I always say "I let the spectators decide how I perform my effects. It is YOUR best feedback you can get".

For the magicians that prefer not using a card case, there will be TWO alternative handlings for NEVER using the card case by both Dr. John Aime and Christopher Williams.

They are both excellent and diabolical handlings and will be included in the download and instructions.

I hope this answers everyone's concerns...

Thanks
Frank
I understand that we magicians may look at things differently then laymen, however, we can only comment on what is in the demo you displayed.

Again, you can defend your demo all you want, but as others have mentioned this does not seem to be a step forward for the ACAAN effect. This is a method that may work very well for you, but this type of effect is what is destroying magic, for ME. The price for this one effect, is $35 and the demo leaves me lacking.

Maybe this effect would be better off as a submission to a magazine. I understand you want to make money, but just because you have a "new" method, (which may or may not be, because I don't know what it is), doesn't mean it is worthy of individual purchase.

Now, I am not trying to attack you and I am sure you will get defensive, I am just giving my opinion from what I have seen from a demo linked to a website from a guy I know nothing about.

And I by no means am trying to stop or walk upon your creation of new magic, I just question how you are bringing it to the community. Have you shown the effect to working pros and obtained inputs outside of your "circle" of magical friends?

But who am I?
Guest
 

Postby Guest » 12/29/07 01:00 AM

Scott

I understand your points but I have included a number of top pros and they have contributed significantly to this release. We are going to re-shoot the demo and show the true impact this effect has.

I have given proper credit and have had numerous pros including John Born, Brad Henderson, Christopher Williams abd others to give me postive and negative feedback.

Like all effects, this will not be for everyone BUT it is a ACAAN that will be in the reach of the average magician WITHOUT memorizing a deck of cards and possessing great sleight of hand.

My version is NOT the best but is practical, easy and you carry ONLY one deck.

I believe $34.95 is cheap for all the detailed workings, deck and secret that you will get.

Precision Magic will be offering a download for $20.00 on January 1, 2008 if you want to save some money.

OOTHG may not be a true ACAAN like the Berlas effect but it does accomplish 80% of the ACAAN premise without HEAVY sleights or memorization.

I can tell you that I did not do this for the money. It involved countless hours of writing, re-writing, editing and all the time I took to create and modify my routine. Sure, it will be nice to make some extra money but I wanted to publish this routine because I believed in it.

I appreciate your comments and fully understand your viewpoint.

Best regards,
Frank Velasco
Guest
 

Postby Guest » 12/29/07 02:00 AM

Originally posted by Frank Velasco:
OOTHG may not be a true ACAAN like the Berlas effect but it does accomplish 80% of the ACAAN premise
I don't think it's valid to say that your "card at any number"-routine accomplishes 80% of the premise, just because you can use four fifth of the ACAAN-acronym.
Or how did you work out this number?

Denis
Guest
 

Postby Guest » 12/29/07 07:34 AM

Problem with using superlatives when advertising a product (such as Holy Grail) if it turns out that the effect is not close to a Holy Grail, you are kind of shooting yourself in the foot from the get go.

In this case, it appears not even to be *any* card at any number!
Guest
 

Postby David Britland » 12/29/07 09:39 AM

I'm currently posting some thoughts on The Berglas Effect (ACAAN) on my blog. First article is already there with more to come shortly.

Cardopolis

First trick is called The Bogus Effect. A one deck method that lives up to all the usual advertising hype while being just as disappointing as the latest marketed trick on learning the method. But at least it's free ;)
David Britland
 
Posts: 71
Joined: 01/24/08 01:00 PM
Location: England

Postby Guest » 12/29/07 10:30 AM

David Britland's take on this plot is very clever and very practical.

A dealer ad for it might read something like this:

The whole deck is riffle spread face-up across the table to show all the cards are different. It can be legitimately cut and riffle shuffled at this point.

A spectator Focuses on one card, but does not reveal its identity.

He doesnt write it down or take it from the deck -- he never touches the deck, just gazes at it to form an image in his head.

A second spectator THINKS of any number from 1 to 52, but says nothing, writes nothing. He is the only person in the universe who knows the number.

At this point, the deck can be legitimately riffled shuffled if desired. The spectator can cut the deck multiple times to randomize the position of the card. (which they haven't revealed at this point)

BEFORE the first spectator reveals his card, the second spectator reveals his number and he -- not the magician -- counts to that point in the deck

ONLY AFTER this has been done -- ONLY AFTER the count has finished -- does the first guy reveal the name of his card.

Before and after cards can be shown to show different cards at different numbers!

No Sleights at all. You don't switch the card counted to for the thought card. The spectators can do the counting and turn over the card. They can even turn over cards that don't fall on their number (before and after).

No calculations or memorization needed at all.

Only ONE deck is used. YES..Only one deck! No need to carry multiple decks around.

No rough and smooth, no cards stuck together. No stooges. No assistants. No wires, no magnets, no thumb tips, no elves hidden up your sleeves or down your pants. Resets instantly.

One spectator can count the cards into the other spectators hands. Do it surrounded there are no angles.

Guest
 

Postby Guest » 12/29/07 11:21 AM

Guys....

Like I said before, I have never been questioned returning the cards to the box by laymen. As magicians we tend to overthink our processes and procedures. Many laymen have mentioned and said "You put the cards in the box so I know you could not touch them". Impossible!!

As I always say "I let the spectators decide how I perform my effects. It is YOUR best feedback you can get".

For the magicians that prefer not using a card case, there are TWO alternative handlings for NEVER using the card case by both Dr. John Aime and Christopher Williams. They are both excellent and diabolical handlings and will be included in the download and instructions.

You have TWO choices for performing OOTHG: Card case and non card case routines...

I still prefer the card case method because I present logic and reasoning to put the cards BACK into the case, pause, re-cap and have the spec take the cards out.

Even though the video is rushed and does show the above example, we are planning to re-shoot the video soon.
Guest
 

Postby Guest » 12/29/07 01:47 PM

thanks a lot David !!
Guest
 

Postby Guest » 12/30/07 09:54 AM

Due to two releases coming out with the name Holy Grail and the sacred nature of the name, we have decided to change the name....Stay tuned...
Guest
 


Return to Close-Up Magic