Larry Jennings' Ambitious Classic

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Postby Bill Duncan » 01/16/03 12:35 AM

I'm trying locate versions of the Jenning's small packet ambitious card routine. Any additions you can make to this list would be appreciated.
Here's what I have in my library:
  • Ambitious Classic -The Classic Magic of Larry Jennings
  • title unknown - Card Cavalcade II / Jerry Mentzer
  • Limited Ambitions - Any Second Now / Martin Nash
  • Too Many Cards - The Complete Works Of Derek
    Dingle
  • 5 Speed - Out Of Control / Chris Kenner
Thanks in advance for any help you can provide.
bill
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Postby Guest » 01/16/03 02:55 AM

Cervon version it's included in "Ultra Cervon" it's a very good version, according to him the original one.
James Swaim version, with a diferent climax it's in "Don't blink" book.
My personal favourite its "Ambitious classic variation" it's written in " The classic magic of Jennings".
Tamariz routine and presentation it's described ( In spanish)in one of the Luis Garcia limited edition books.
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Postby Guest » 01/16/03 03:07 AM

I believe u can find a somewhat simplified version of Larry Jennings Ambitious Classic on one of the Ammar Easy to Master Card Miracles videos ... I'm not sure of the exact volume but it's probably 5 or 6.

steven
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Postby Denis Behr » 01/16/03 09:44 AM

Originally posted by MCUESTA:
Cervon version it's included in "Ultra Cervon" it's a very good version, according to him the original one.
Can anybody verify whether Cervon's version is the original one?
He also performs it on the first tape of his Ultra Cervon Tapes which are really good I think... (and I'm a book guy)

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Postby Randy DiMarco » 01/16/03 10:02 AM

I believe that Bill Miesel published the first small packet ambitious card routine. I dont remember where it was published but I am sure that Richard knows.
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Postby Bill Duncan » 01/16/03 10:14 AM

Miesel's routine used an entire suit, if I recall correctly. Jenning's is generally credited with altering the plot to five cards. This is the routine which became publically popular when Dingle performed his version (with the Too Many Cards theme) on Dick Cavett's show.
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Postby Brad Jeffers » 01/16/03 09:48 PM

I don't think that Cervon claims to have originated the routine, but merely points out, that in The Complete Works Dingle states that the inspiration for his own version, Too Many Cards, came from seeing Cervon perform his version (which he calls A Matter of Psycology). Cervon's version uses four cards rather than five. Jenning's had a four card version also. It's kind of interesting, that although Cervon uses one less card in his version than Dingle does in his, A Matter of Psycology is actually a bit longer (eight moments of magic as opposed to seven, in Too Many Cards.
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Postby Bill Duncan » 01/16/03 11:27 PM

Updated List (thanks guys!)
  • Ambitious Classic -The Classic Magic of Larry Jennings
  • title unknown - Card Cavalcade II / Jerry Mentzer
  • Limited Ambitions - Any Second Now / Martin Nash
  • A Matter of Psychology - Ultra Cervon / Bruce Cervon
  • Too Many Cards - The Complete Works Of Derek
    Dingle
  • 5 Speed - Out Of Control / Chris Kenner
  • title unknown - Jim Swain / Don't blink
  • varient handling - ETMCM series / Michael Ammar
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Postby Guest » 01/21/03 03:55 AM

Hi!

I have seen a variation on Tonio's tape "Confidences" (quite popular here in France, you can get more info on www.commeparmagie.fr).

Unfortunatly my experience in magic is at relatively small level so far and I don't know the original Jennings'version so I can't tell you how different this one is. Let me know if you want a description of the effect
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Postby Richard Kaufman » 01/21/03 09:46 AM

The original version by Bill Miesel, using an entire suite of 12 cards, appeared in Ibidem. It was this routine which inspired Jennings, though he never publically acknowledged this because he forgot. Once I reminded him of this he felt quite bad that Miesel's name had been omitted.
Bruce Cervon's claim is only to be laughed at. Decades after Fulves first printed Jennings' handling, Cervon (then in process of trying to discredit Jennings and force him out of the Vernon Chronicles book project--successfully, I might add) decided to try and claim credit for a number of Jennings' tricks. Cervon's claim is utterly false and without merit.
As far as this plot goes, the Jennings and Dingle handlings are near perfection. Have never seen another version worth a spit.
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Postby Tom Stone » 01/21/03 11:20 AM

Originally posted by Bill Duncan:
I'm trying locate versions of the Jenning's small packet ambitious card routine. Any additions you can make to this list would be appreciated.
Max Maven's Con-Sequence from the book Focus
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Postby Frank Starsinic » 01/22/03 01:52 PM

How about Jumping Gemini by Darwin Ortiz.
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Postby Richard Kaufman » 01/22/03 02:49 PM

Though Darwin Ortiz strangely denies it, "Jumping Gemini" is obviously based on several tricks of Brother John Hamman's. "Ambitious Classic" is not among them.
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Postby Edwin Corrie » 01/24/03 03:06 AM

Bruce Cervon says (in "Ultra Cervon") that the routine came from a Ray Grismer idea, that Larry Jennings was the first to publish a version, and that it was popularised by Derek Dingle (if I remember correctly from my quick check last night - it's all there in "Ultra Cervon").

Does anyone know the Ray Grismer version alluded to by Cervon?

As for 5-Speed (from "Out of Control"), Chris Kenner openly states that it is Michael Weber's trick, which he (Kenner) decided to publish in retaliation for Weber's publishing of the Missing Link rubber band routine in "Life Savers".

Whew!!
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Postby Frank Yuen » 01/24/03 09:58 AM

As for 5-Speed (from "Out of Control"), Chris Kenner openly states that it is Michael Weber's trick, which he (Kenner) decided to publish in retaliation for Weber's publishing of the Missing Link rubber band routine in "Life Savers".
Hey Richard,

What's the story on this? I've aways gone on the assumption that Kenner writing the above was a joke, that Kenner and Weber gave each other permission to publish their variations on the other's effect. I don't see either one of them as the type to do otherwise.

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Postby Richard Kaufman » 01/24/03 05:07 PM

12 years after the book Out of Control was published, I can't remember the circumstances. I know that the idea of using the rubber-cement dot to adhere two cards is generally thought to be Michael Weber's, and I think Kenner used it in a trick in his book. The trick was Kenner's, though the use of the rubber cement dot was inspired by Weber.
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Postby Philippe Noël » 01/06/10 01:05 PM

Hi Edwin,
You can find a description of the Ray Grismer version in Bruce Cervon's Castle Notebooks Volume 4, page 294 and it is dated 11/26/68.
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Postby Philippe Noël » 01/06/10 01:07 PM

Hi Bill,
Do you know when Dingle performed on Dick Cavett's show.
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Postby Richard Kaufman » 01/06/10 01:23 PM

I couldn't write what follows when Dingle was alive (see my posts above from 2003), however Derek learned the routine from Jennings and made few changes--"Too Many Cards" is essentially Larry's routine and he was damn pissed off (and rightly so) that it was in Derek's book.

The only real difference is in the presentation, and the "Too Many Cards" patter line fit Derek very well.
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Postby JordanB » 01/06/10 01:46 PM

Bob White's version titled "Ambitious Classic Revisited" is in his "It's a Matter of Style" lecture notes and also in the March 2006 issue of Genii Magazine (Penn and Teller cover). It is a very practical handling of the trick. It will also be on the new card DVD.

Jumping Gemini reminds me a lot of Bro. Hamman's Double Pinochle.
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Postby Jonathan Townsend » 01/06/10 02:09 PM

RE the stickies... was shown that as a photographic supply by Charles Kalish - found it mentioned in an Alton Sharpe book - also in use in the ken brook trick Benjamin the Beetle/Herman the Fly.
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Postby Joe Pecore » 01/06/10 02:17 PM

Philippe Nol wrote:Hi Bill,
Do you know when Dingle performed on Dick Cavett's show.

Dai Vernon mentions tin his Vernon Touch column within Genii September 1974 that he was on the show too. I see other references to it being air in October 1974 and that Dick Cavett interviewed Dai Vernon, Derek Dingle and Doug Henning.
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Postby Philippe Noël » 01/06/10 03:23 PM

Hi Joe,
Thank you again.
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Postby Philippe Noël » 01/06/10 03:32 PM

Derek Dingle made a lecture at the Magic Castle in 1970(Vernon Touch). I suppose that at that occasion he saw Jennings' and Cervon's versions of the trick. Cervon's method is dated 9/26/69.
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Postby Paul Gordon » 01/06/10 03:40 PM

Dear Bill,

I have a handling called "Variation Of Ambitious Card Variation" that was first published in my "Lecture Notes # 1" (1989) and reprinted in my book "Card Marvels" (2009).

Best, Paul Gordon
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Postby Joe Pecore » 01/06/10 04:27 PM

Bill,

Ambitious Ace-Two-Three-Four-Five in Card Cavalcade II / Jerry Mentzer

http://archive.denisbehr.de/archive/res ... =220&edit=
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Postby Joe Pecore » 01/06/10 04:29 PM

You might want to check out this Denis' list of "Ambitious Card Theme / Small Packet Sequences & Ambitious Classic" Theme too

http://archive.denisbehr.de/archive/rou ... 31,188,191
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Postby Philippe Noël » 01/15/10 05:32 PM

Hi Bill,
There is a very good version of that trick on Jim Swain's Miracles DVD Volume 4. It is called Ambitious Classic Revisited.
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Postby SteveP » 01/15/10 06:24 PM

L&L just release the Ambitious Classic as part of their World's Greatest Magic series. I just put it on their site this afternoon:

http://www.llpub.com/zenshop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=27&products_id=2662

Also, the demo video I created for it shows Larry doing it, as well as Derek Dingle:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gSPv7wJSJxs
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Postby Jonathan Townsend » 01/15/10 07:11 PM

Thanks Steve, very interesting to listen to the performer and the audience.
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Postby Bill Duncan » 01/15/10 07:46 PM

Wouldn't you know it... I already have those source videos.

Sigh.
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Postby swamy » 03/01/10 02:18 PM

Too Many cards effect is inspired by Bruce cervon's effect "A Matter of Psycology". It is being mentioned in the book "Complete works of Derek Dingle"
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Postby Dustin Stinett » 03/01/10 10:06 PM

Simply put, since I learned the Dingle version from Derek back in the 1980s, I can say that his was virtually identical to a Larry Jennings version (of which there are many) and not Bruces. (This is just one of the things Bruce and I would argue about over the years.) Bruceswhich I prefer by the wayuses (ostensibly) four cards, not five. While Derek recalls (and credits) seeing Cervon and the Professor do the trick, what Derek had to see was the Professor doing LJ's 5-card version. Otherwise, logic dictates that Derek would have reinvented Bruces 4-card version (a version, by the way, Larry had as well).

In Fulves description in Epilogue (where two versions are explained, not just one), he notes that the trick appears to be in general circulation in the US and Europe, but the clear implication is that LJ invented it. Mike Maxwell, in The Classic Magic of Larry Jennings credits the underground for naming the trick (the version in that book is slightly different, and this is where the 4-card version also appears).

But the bottom line of all this is thatas noted earlier in this threadBill Miesel deserves the lions share of the credit. Hes the first guy to have published a small packet Ambitious sequence (Ambitious Ten in the June 1957 Ibidem). Furthermore, Miesel credits P. Howard Lyons for giving him the idea via a trick of his published in the March issue of that year called Three Up. This was a sequential ambitious effect using an Ace, Deuce, and Three with the deck proper.

I never felt Bruces claim had any merit. Im curious if anything about such a trick appears in any of his notebooks recently published. Because I would think, given his proclivity for writing everything down, that if Bruce was working on it, and LJs name didnt appear on it, it would be in one of those books. Can anyone who has them say?

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Postby swamy » 03/02/10 06:47 AM

Is it proper to say that the Ambitious Classic plot is a packet version of the Ed Marlo's Elevator plot using a deck of cards.
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Postby Richard Kaufman » 03/02/10 10:33 AM

No, it has nothing to do with the Elevator plot.
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Postby Jonathan Townsend » 03/02/10 12:06 PM

Has a handling of this been explored with mispipped cards so you get a couple of "since two's company and three's a crowd - i'll put the three away and ... look still an ace, two, three, four and that five we'll save for last" moments?
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Postby Denis Behr » 03/02/10 12:50 PM

Richard Kaufman wrote:No, it has nothing to do with the Elevator plot.

Except maybe the presentation about a "family of acrobats" which can sometimes be seen with both plots.
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Postby Dustin Stinett » 03/02/10 02:15 PM

Jonathan Townsend wrote:Has a handling of this been explored with mispipped cards so you get a couple of "since two's company and three's a crowd - i'll put the three away and ... look still an ace, two, three, four and that five we'll save for last" moments?

Not that I'm aware of, but I wouldn't be at all surprised if someone tried to "improve" the trick with a gaff.

One of the great aspects of Ambitious Classic is that it can use pretty much any deck. I've done it with some pretty scuzzy cards; you just have to be a little careful (use pull-downs instead of push-offs and/or slide-outs due to sticky cards).

I think it is the perfect packet trick. It lends itself to a lot of presentational hooks, has a lot of magic happening, it uses no gaffs or duplicates, and you can do it anywhere.

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Postby Philippe Noël » 03/02/10 02:22 PM

Hi Dustin,
On 11/26/68 Bruce Cervon recorded in his Castle Notebook Vol.11 an effect called "Ace to 5 combination". He credits Ray Grismer.
This version is very similar to one of the two published by Jennings in 1975 in Epilogue. In Ultra Cervon, Bruce explains page 22 that his version called "A Matter of Psychology" evolved from reworking an idea of Ray Grismer. Before I read Ultra Cervon I had never heard that Ray Grismer was associated with The Ambitious Classic. I do not know what to think.
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Postby Edwin Corrie » 03/02/10 08:03 PM

I haven't seen his L&L DVDs and so don't know if it's the same as the Ambitious Classic Revisited previously mentioned in this thread, but James Swain has a nice version of the Jennings routine in "Don't Blink", called Family Circus.
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