bottom palm

Discuss your favorite close-up tricks and methods.

Postby Don » 01/05/05 05:06 PM

i have so many methods of the bottom palm in my books but they are all action palms. i need a good bottom palm that i can use when the deck is in my left hand dealing position. the routine i want to do uses the bottom palm to palm off the card before i hand the deck out for shuffling. the routine says you can use the gamblers cop, but i dont feel comftorable with it in close up situations when im standing.

i dont want to have to buy a whole book just for this sleight. can someone help me. pyned001@hawaii.rr.com
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Postby Richard Kaufman » 01/05/05 05:32 PM

Good Bottom Palms:
Hofzinser (he invented it). Hofzinser's Card Conjuring.
Erdnase (he improved it). Expert at the Card Table (and look for that little paragraph Vernon was so fond of about the left pinky doing all the work).
Cliff Green (the best modern version). Professional Card Magic.
Each of these books is available in softcover for under $10. You should own all of them, anyway, if you're interested in card magic.
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Postby Hank Miller » 01/05/05 05:32 PM

Try learning the Larry Jennings one hand bottom palm. Nice!
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Postby Denis Behr » 01/05/05 06:01 PM

Originally posted by Hank Miller:
Try learning the Larry Jennings one hand bottom palm. Nice!
Or even better: Learn the one handed palm by Ernest Earick found in By Forces Unseen. It is easier, more economical and can be used for any number of cards.
Is there another way to classic bottom palm cards?! ;-)

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Postby Richard Kaufman » 01/05/05 06:28 PM

The Jennings One Hand Bottom Palm (based on a two-hand palm by someone else published earlier in MUM) has never been described correctly in print. Even when correctly explained, it's still more difficult that any of the three two-handed palms I listed.
Of course, Hank Miller could do all of them to perfection. WELCOME HANK!
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Postby Pete Biro » 01/05/05 06:44 PM

The gambler's cop is PERFECT for standing. That's almost all I ever use and it easier than drinking water.

You just need to quit the fear of being caught... if you have the proper timing, body language NOBODY sees anything, even though corners of the card may be sticking out.

It is the most natural palm I have ever seen/done. I even fooled an old crossroader in Nevada with it.

The key? Be loose, relaxed arm and let it hang/loose ala Vernon's advice.
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Postby Guest » 01/05/05 07:10 PM

Originally posted by Pete Biro:
The gambler's cop is PERFECT for standing. That's almost all I ever use and it easier than drinking water.

You just need to quit the fear of being caught... if you have the proper timing, body language NOBODY sees anything, even though corners of the card may be sticking out.
I'm with Pete on this one. Remember if you're doing this for one table, that another table off to one side may has no idea that your not supposed to be holding a card in that hand.

In the movie
Jeremiah Johnson, Robert Redford and Will Geer are in the mountains hunting elk with a stalking horse, I. E. they are hiding behind a horse, because the elk aren't scared of horses the way they are of men. Here's what Redford asks Geer:

Redford: Won't he see my feet?
Geer: Elk don't know how many feet a horse has!
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Postby Don » 01/05/05 07:34 PM

my inexperience with palming may be getting the best of me, but i cant help to think that if people are real close to me, they will see the card.
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Postby Dustin Stinett » 01/05/05 07:47 PM

Take it from me, the only way to get past that is to start doing it. And heres the bad news: youre going to get caught: not because of bad technique, but because you will be feeling guilty and you will look down at your hand and so will your spectators. When you stop looking, they stop looking. When they stop looking, youll wonder what the hell you were afraid of.

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Postby Don » 01/05/05 08:06 PM

thanks for the input, you guys are great!
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Postby Don » 01/05/05 08:39 PM

one more question before i shut up and listen to the advice. how close were your spectators when you were using the cop?
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Postby Bill Duncan » 01/05/05 11:19 PM

Rage,
Pete is 101% correct about this...

The big thing the Gambler's Cop has, which most methods for stealing a card don't, is an utter LACK of tension during the steal.

One thing that betrays the novice in attempts at palming is the "dead arm" caused by too much tension. The key to the cop is to simply let the cards fall away as you pass the pack (and the spotlight) to another person.
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Postby cataquet » 01/06/05 05:49 AM

I'll join the chorus: Gambler's Cop! Gambler's Cop! Gambler's Cop! :whack:

You can do it completely surrounded. The only bad angle is someone seated behind you trying to look around your left side (in the gap betwen your elbow and hip) :D It works even better when the audience is standing.

As was said, the lack of arm movement is the dead giveaway: the arm just hangs there instead of dropping to the side. However, so is the quick look to make sure that no one can see the card - Oops, now they can.
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Postby Richard Kaufman » 01/06/05 09:36 AM

The so-called Gambler's Cop is best used when you are standing, performing for people who are also standing. Or, when you are sitting, performing for people who are also sitting.
In other words, when you and the spectators have the same eye level.
Doing when you're standing and they're sitting is more dangerous.
However, the Gambler's Cop is VERY difficult to do well. Not only is it tough to actually cop the card smoothly and without any fuss, a great deal of practice is required to learn how to hold the hand in a natural manner. Then you have to learn how to replace the card. I've seen VERY few people do the Gambler's Cop well.
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Postby Pete Biro » 01/06/05 11:17 AM

Actually, Richard, you don't see it when it is done well, hence, lots of folks (me included) have copped on you and you never knew it.

I do it all the time for no reason at all and it has nothing to do with the effect I am doing, just do it as an excercise and for the fun of getting away with it. :cool:
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Postby Hank Miller » 01/06/05 12:19 PM

Thanks Mr. Kaufman! (WELCOME HANK!) I would agree. That most (a lot) of magicians do the COP badly. The untimely shift of the deck is a dead give away. Not natural in any sense. But, in the hands of a pro, it is a thing of none detectible beauty. It is nice to see a routine that is performed using the COP. Then learn during the explaination of the trick that the COP was used.

Side note: My vote... use it. Gambler COP!
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Postby Philippe Noël » 01/06/05 01:13 PM

Personally I am very fond of the Improved Erdnase Bottom-Palm that you can find in The Card Magic of Lepaul."One of the most nearly perfect sleights ever devised" Paul Lepaul.
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Postby Don » 01/07/05 06:56 PM

i actually found the expert at the card table for five bucks. the bottom palm in it is very nice indeed. thanks richard.
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Postby Guest » 01/07/05 09:56 PM

You may wish to check out John Carney's recenly released DVD on Palming. It covers the Erdnase bottom palm (the one with the left pinky doing the work) quite nicely.

Richard-- In response to your earlier post, I thought I had read somewhere that you were woking on a republishing of the Professional Card Magic of Cliff Green. Is that going to be released soon?

-- Frank
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Postby Richard Kaufman » 01/07/05 10:53 PM

The short answer to your question about the new version of Cliff Green's book is simply "no." I have no time.
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Postby Guest » 01/27/05 09:26 AM

I haven't bought the John Carney DVD yet (its on my list and I've heard good things)... But if you can still find it Mike Close's Power of Palming VHS is one of the best sources to learn to palm... Or if your here in Baltimore Howie Schwartzman... ;)
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Postby mago » 01/27/05 02:28 PM

Rage, you just caused me to search through my magic books to find the bottom palm that I have used for years for a single card and or numerous cards.

I found the source. "Card Cavalcade Finale on page 47 by Roger Klause.

Go forth and palm.

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Postby Guest » 01/31/05 11:38 AM

Let me humbly introduce a third way of palming to the discussion...the lateral palm.

IMO the tension in the hand it even smaller and the technique therefore more natural. Plus - with regard to a simple bottom palm - it is possible to lateral-palm the bottom card(s) from dealing position with either hands.

The disadvantage of the lateral palm is its angle-weakness when performed standing...(but when you're sitting, consider this ingenious move!)

Do I get lateral support?
Who else uses this palm? Is it an alternative to classic palm or the cop?
Cause I don't really like the gambler's cop and very rarely use it.

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Postby Bill Mullins » 01/31/05 12:30 PM

Originally posted by Juddl:

Who else uses this palm?
Dan Garrett, Steranko, Lennart Green, among others
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Postby Matthew Field » 02/01/05 10:26 AM

I also favor the Gambler's Cop, but there's some nice Vernon work on the Bottom Palm in Stephen Minch's "The Vernon Chronicles" Volume 1 (which I just happen to be in the process of re-reading).

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Postby mark » 02/01/05 11:24 AM

Having attended a workshop with John Carney in 2004, I learned some great techniques for palming and the DPS. When his "On Palming" DVD was released, I was very interested in the content. I can easily recommend it as a fine source for many of the sleights mentioned here. Great work on top palms, bottom palms, the cop, side steal, and others. His instruction is better than ever. Highly recommended.
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Postby Guest » 02/01/05 03:27 PM

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Juddl:

Who else uses this palm?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dan Garrett, Steranko, Lennart Green, among others
Of course.

Who else (in this forum) uses this palm? Is it an alternative to classic palm or the cop? I'm asking for your opinions.

(end of corrected transmission)
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