Perfect World

Discuss your favorite close-up tricks and methods.

Postby El Mystico » 01/13/05 08:33 AM

JB Magic in the UK has released "Perfect World", an approach to Out Of This World.
It follows the usual effect, the main benefit is that you don't have to switch packets at the end. Now frankly, I've never had difficulty switching the packets. But if you do, you might want to consider this.

HOWEVER, I have a major concern, which is my key reason for posting.
JB have many video demos on their site - which I think is a major plus. Their video demo of Perfect World is seriously misleading. During the demo, the demonstrator makes a number of comments on the trick - much as you would get from an in store demo. "This is a brand new trick called Perfect World," "if you want to you can use an 8 or a five or whatever," "there are no add on moves," "you pick up one of the halves, they can shuffle if you wish," "again, they can do all this," "resets in less than 20 seconds".

Fine.

BUT he also says, quite specifically "its a regular deck," "these are regular," "don't forget, these really are all genuine" "It is an ordinary deck"

Those considering buying the trick need to be aware that these are four lies.

Before posting, I raised this with them. Their response was "The effect is performed on the video as the audience is meant to see it"

But as the quotes above make clear, this is not a performance. No performer would say "it resets in 20 seconds". This is a demo.

As i said at the beginning, the advantage of this approach is that there is no switch.** EDITED TO REMOVE DESCRIPTION OF METHOD.** You would not be able to perform other tricks with this deck.

The decision is now yours, whether you think the advantage outweighs the disadvantage.

For preference, I would have liked to see JB redo the demo to make it less misleading. They haven't - hence this posting.
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Postby Jonathan Townsend » 01/13/05 09:15 AM

Originally posted by Dom:
JB Magic in the UK has released "Perfect World", an approach to Out Of This World.
Link Please to JBTV

This is clearly a demonstration for magicians. Unless performers are now saying things like this to lay audiences...

The demonstrator says:

1) Regular deck. No problem giving the deck out at the end of the trick?

2) All genuine. No problem using a borrowed deck?

Just how quick do you have to be to watch out for specs turning packets around when they shuffle?

What if someone drops the cards or deals a few face up?

I'm not going to criticize the method without first getting some feedback from folks who perform OOTW for people and about how things tend to go when you let them handle the cards.

Workers comments? Dropped cards? Real issue or just unwarranted worrying?
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Postby Sam Kesler » 01/13/05 09:51 AM

Here's the link to JB Magic. Scroll down about half way for Perfect World. Click on camera icon.


https://vault2.secured-url.com/jbtv/home.asp
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Postby El Mystico » 01/13/05 10:16 AM

Jonathan - that's my point - it isn't a regular deck. They can't be borrowed. They can't be handed out at the end.
You do have to watch for them not to rotate them. You are in trouble if they drop them.
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Postby Guest » 01/13/05 10:28 AM

Originally posted by Dom:
BUT he also says, quite specifically "its a regular deck," "these are regular," "don't forget, these really are all genuine" "It is an ordinary deck"

Those considering buying the trick need to be aware that these are four lies.
I tend to agree with you. If they'd said "It can be shown as a regular deck", that wouldv'e been fine.

Watching the clip, it's fairly obvious (to conjurors) how it's done. Clever idea. But, as Jonathan observed, a spectator doing a riffle shuffle could disorientate the cards.

Not much of an advantage over the numerous ungaffed OOTW methods. Except to amaze conjuros who know OOTW.

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Postby Jonathan Townsend » 01/13/05 10:36 AM

Thanks for the link Sam. I believe folks can learn from the clip and recommend viewing it before jumping in on this thread.

Originally posted by Dave Le Fevre:
...Not much of an advantage over the numerous ungaffed OOTW methods. Except to amaze conjurers who know OOTW.
Dave, I am not sure. I'd like to believe this could floor a room and make a hero of the volunteer. The basic trick is good, and if this version permits a significant clarification and streamlining of the procedure for the audience... then it has merit.

What are your thoughts?
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Postby Pete Biro » 01/13/05 10:49 AM

I think the pickups at the end removing the Kings and re-inserting are confusing and dopey.

Wait 'til you see Michael Weber and Dean Dill's newest "A New World!"

Coming soon!
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Postby El Mystico » 01/13/05 10:51 AM

For me, there are two different issues.
1) This trick - yes, there is a streamlining. But I personally have never had the slightest problem with the switch at the end. And the downside of having a fully gimmicked deck which would need to be switched in and out, is a significant disadvantage. But, yes, I can see some situations and some performers for whom this would be a benefit. I myself used a related idea, once, specifically to fool one magician. He was completely floored.
2) The way it is sold is without doubt wrong. To so clearly stress it is a regular deck will mislead anyone trying to reach a decision about its practicality to them. simply saying "it looks regular" would suffice. Avoiding any reference one way or the other would also suffice. It it the fact that four times he says it is a normal deck that I have a problem with.
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Postby Gary Freed » 01/13/05 10:55 AM

Originally posted by Pete Biro:
I think the pickups at the end removing the Kings and re-inserting are confusing and dopey.

Wait 'til you see Michael Weber and Dean Dill's newest "A New World!"

Coming soon!
Pete,
Any idea how soon, "soon" is?
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Postby Pete Biro » 01/13/05 11:53 AM

In one hour I will be at Dill's Shoppe with the final corrected art (20 pages of ideas and handling) on a CD -- ready to go to the printer.
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Postby mrgoat » 01/13/05 01:11 PM

All magic ads - to a degree - mislead magi into thinking it's some kind of hen's teeth.

But, to totally and utterly lie about a trick deck is surely immoral - if not illegal.

I don't know if America has the Advertising Standards Authority - or equivalant.

Certainly worth raising the issue with them if it is. I have personally complained about several misleading ads and the ASA always resolved them immediately.

There is alot wrong with magic. Penguin and Magic Makers ripping off others effects is one thing. Utterly, totally and demonstrably lying is beyond awful.

This is just nasty.

Although edited, I know the method and it would be a great thing to fool people at your magic club with, but in the real world...I cannot even vaguely see the point of it...
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Postby Jonathan Townsend » 01/13/05 01:33 PM

On a more positive note, I've been wanting to do a clever 'divider' type effect for a LONG time, and have come to wonder...

If you started with a deck of 52 red cards, and were a bit Gilbraith about their setup, then you could let them shuffle and cut, and divide the deck in half, and let them deal...

Now for the parts I've come to wonder about;

1) Can one spread out one of the packets without worrying about repeated cards being too prominent?

2) Can you use something like the Blizzard method to switch out the other half pack at a good moment in this context? IE do you have to spread both halves of the deck at once or can you wait that extra beat or two after the first spread?

3) In my silly mind, a 'perfect' version would put all four leaders out and let them deal cards onto the leaders, move cards between piles, and then have the suits match the leaders. Having the cards also sorted ... is tempting.
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Postby El Mystico » 01/13/05 02:07 PM

20 of the cards are gaffed.
There is no consideration given to repeat cards.
While your blizzard idea is a very interesting one, it would not work in this context.
Wouldn't a perfect version involve just two packets?
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Postby Jonathan Townsend » 01/13/05 02:15 PM

Originally posted by Dom:
...Wouldn't a perfect version involve just two packets?
I don't know. I liked the idea of seperating the suits.

Agreed the simple Blizzard method would not manage four packets.
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Postby Guest » 01/13/05 03:24 PM

Originally posted by Jonathan Townsend:
Can one spread out one of the packets without worrying about repeated cards being too prominent?
Perhaps my opinion on how it's done isn't the same as yours.

I don't see why there need by any duplicate cards. But perhaps I'm missing something - that won't be a first.

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Postby Jonathan Townsend » 01/14/05 05:31 AM

Originally posted by Dave Le Fevre:
...I don't see why there need by any duplicate cards. But perhaps I'm missing something - that won't be a first...
Re-read the post to get the context. I was suggesting a different method than the one offered in 'Perfect World' and asking if a weakness would be easily spotted.
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Postby Guest » 01/14/05 05:49 AM

Originally posted by Jonathan Townsend:
Re-read the post to get the context.
Oops. Sorry.

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Postby pduffie » 01/14/05 07:05 AM

I'm surprised nobody has commented on the illogical finish to Perfect World? Both piles are in the same color-block order - reds on top of blacks! They should be red/black and black/red. If you did 'Out of this World' and forgot to do the switch, this is how it would finish!

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Postby Jonathan Townsend » 01/14/05 07:11 AM

Originally posted by Peter Duffie:
...If you did 'Out of this World' and forgot to do the switch, this is how it would finish!
Does this mean we need to use the same block switch as in the original in this method too?

If so, what then is the ... oh... okay.
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Postby Temperance » 01/14/05 07:22 AM

Thirty quid?!? Are the cards coated in diamond dust or something?

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Postby cataquet » 01/14/05 07:46 AM

Although I'm sure someone has written this up somewhere (as I can't believe it's original with me), but about 20 years ago, I used to perform OOTW with a stripper deck. It was just a matter of stripping out the appropriate half before the reveal. At the time, I thought this was just a bit of fun with a stripper deck. I thought at the time this was as gimmicked as you can get for OOTW. Now this. :rolleyes: Incidentally, Max Maven has a wonderful routine with a stripper deck in one of the colored books.

As for Mark Mason, go to MagicCafe and you'll see he has a long history of misleading presentations. A few people joke that if he says "A" then "not A" is true. So, if he says the deck can be examined, then it can't.
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Postby pduffie » 01/14/05 09:01 AM

BTW - I know Mark Mason and I don't think he's 'deliberately' scripting any videos to be misleading. But his extra shove - over-enthusiasm? - to convince viewers can give a misleading result (as is the case here). Despite what's being said on Magic cafe, he stocks some very good tricks. Good tricks speak for themselves and require little hype.
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Postby Richard Kaufman » 01/14/05 10:27 AM

I haven't seen the ad, however if magic dealers were to be condemned for false advertising then there would have been very few ads or catalogues published in the last 100 years.
OF COURSE THE CARDS ARE GAFFED! What would he be selling if not gaffed cards? (Particularly considering that one of J&B Magic's specialties is tricks using gimmicked cards.)
I certainly don't condone false statements in advertising, however common sense should always prevail.
Whenever I see Mark Mason demonstrating at a convention you can barely get near the table because his tricks are so good and the prices are so reasonable.
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Postby Pete Biro » 01/14/05 11:27 AM

It is an interesting way. HOWEVER, the "A New World" by Dean Dill and Michael Weber puts this one "on the trailer" as they say in racing.

Dill/Weber solved it all, one row of cards for each color, no changing with second indicator cards, and two (or more) different ways of presenting it... and a NO-MEMORY Aronson Stack system built in. AND MORE.

Instruction book (16 pages plus covers) went to printer last night.

Dill and Weber will WIN the War of the Worlds with this one.

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Postby El Mystico » 01/14/05 12:41 PM

Richard - I expect dealers to push as hard against the boundaries as they can. But I think outright lying needs to be highlighted for the benefit of brother magicians.

Peter - I hadn't spotted the need for a switch at the end! another drawback! Now, it may well be that the lying is down to over enthusiasm, but that doesn't explain why, when I poited it out to them, they werent prepared to refilm the demo.

and Pete - Weber and Dill on Out of this World - sounds like an unbeatable combination!
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Postby Pete McCabe » 01/14/05 01:57 PM

Jonathan:

David Regal has "Out of this Borough" in Constant Fooling Volume 2, in which the cards end up separated by suit as well as color. It's not quite what you're describing but you might find it interesting.
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Postby Guest » 01/14/05 03:33 PM

Originally posted by Pete McCabe:
David Regal has "Out of this Borough" in Constant Fooling Volume 2
Also in Ego, Issue 1, Volume 1.

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Postby Guest » 01/22/05 08:09 AM

For a version with no gaffed cards, spectator shuffles the deck and no switching of colours in the middle, see Barrie Richardon's excellent book Theater of The Mind. To me, that is the "Perfect out of this world". Simplicity and practicability is the key. What do you guys think?
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Postby John Pezzullo » 01/24/05 03:36 AM

Originally posted by Richard Kaufman:
I haven't seen the ad, however if magic dealers were to be condemned for false advertising....
If this was the case, which dealers would have been sentenced to life imprisonment?
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Postby El Mystico » 01/24/05 09:35 AM

As the chief critic on this one, I'd like to give a big thank you to both Ian and JB magic, who have now changed the ad on this one. It is a rare step to take, and makes them all round good guys.

I'd like to restate - my problems were never with the trick, but with JB's marketing. And I'm sure, as Peter says, the original misleading statements were just due to overenthusiasm for the trick.

Is it a Perfect World? Is it the best version? I think the answer depends on individual performing situations. Like most of us, I am very keen on the original version. however, this one does have the clear advantage of being able to show the cards mixed at every stage, before the climax.

My biggest concern with the original marketing was the claim that the deck was regular; However in reality, if you were performing other card tricks with the deck, you would need to do a deck switch. Currently on The Magic Cafe is a brilliant deck switch which would work perfectly for this: using it would increase the practicality of the trick enormously for many. You'll find it here
http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/view ... 59&forum=2
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