Smooooooooooooooooth

Discuss your favorite close-up tricks and methods.

Postby Pete Biro » 01/20/07 12:35 PM

Stay tooned.
User avatar
Pete Biro
 
Posts: 7124
Joined: 01/17/08 01:00 PM
Location: Hollyweird

Postby Pete Biro » 01/20/07 12:46 PM

Stay tooned.
User avatar
Pete Biro
 
Posts: 7124
Joined: 01/17/08 01:00 PM
Location: Hollyweird

Postby Guest » 01/20/07 02:11 PM

You're absolutely kidding, right? You left off an emoticon somewhere, like a wink or a sly nod of the head?
Guest
 

Postby Guest » 01/20/07 04:18 PM

I miss the days when magicians knew how to perform as opposed to just do tricks.
It's a sad new world we live in.

Gord
Guest
 

Postby Guest » 01/20/07 09:41 PM

Uh, I checked out the uh, clips and uh, not really sure why, but uh, I thought the guy was like uh, really bad.

My 18 month old son has better performance skills. He can at least say TADA! when he finds the card. And what was the crazy Alien Conspiracy Rap song.
Guest
 

Postby Guest » 01/21/07 01:09 AM

Cards+rap=crap
Guest
 

Postby Guest » 01/21/07 01:11 AM

I loved the 'quoting yourself' at the end of this appaling clip.

I may start doing this at gigs.

It's groundbreaking.
Guest
 

Postby Guest » 03/08/07 06:45 AM

I look forward to the DVD.
Guest
 

Postby Brad Henderson » 03/08/07 06:47 PM

If they spent half as much time reading "Our Magic" as they do reading their "Final Cut Pro" manuals, magic would be a better place.
Brad Henderson
 
Posts: 2432
Joined: 01/17/08 01:00 PM
Location: austin, tx

Postby John LeBlanc » 03/08/07 08:09 PM

I invited Chris to join in the discussion. I hope he does. Peer review is an important part of learning.

John
Escamoteurettes -- my blog
John LeBlanc
 
Posts: 866
Joined: 01/17/08 01:00 PM
Location: Houston, TX

Postby Guest » 03/08/07 08:18 PM

Who are "they"? Are "they" the ones who should behave accodingly? Read the proper books and stop ruining it for the rest of "us"? If so..."I" am on "your" side. If "they" don't get something out of "Our Magic" they should get out of "our magic".
Guest
 

Postby Guest » 03/08/07 08:35 PM

I don't think that's Final Cut Pro, based on the title sequences.

He's better than your average duffer at the IBM/SAM meeting, so why the dog pile? There are plenty of YouTube magic clips much, much worse than these.
Guest
 

Postby Brad Henderson » 03/09/07 02:03 AM

In art, a mannerist period is defined as a time frame in which the means of expression become so pervasive nothing ends up being expressed. Today's younger generation has found themselves in/created for themselves a mannerist period. The unfortunate thing, in my mind, is that the focus and developments of the means of expression are completely non-magic in nature, specifically videographic.

While there is the occasional exception (Homer Liwag's Coin One comes to mind) for the most part, the content suffers as a result of misplaced priorities.
Brad Henderson
 
Posts: 2432
Joined: 01/17/08 01:00 PM
Location: austin, tx

Postby Guest » 03/09/07 08:13 AM

Hey Brad is this an excerpt from your upcoming book "My Magic"?

Can I get a galley for review?
Guest
 

Postby Guest » 03/09/07 08:55 AM

But, even before the advent of YouTube and iMovie, young magicians have done this for ages, Brad, don't you think? All magicians have this phase--hopefully, moving beyond it. Now, with YouTube (et al) they get wider exposure.

But nonetheless, when a "kid" (in magic, regardless of chronological age) show promise, he ought to be welcomed and guided, not made fun of in a public forum.

Instead of viewing this as an affront, it's an opportunity for "us" to discover "them" and help "them" become better members of "our community."

Or, "we" could just scoff and poke fun at "him" behind "his" back.
Guest
 

Postby Guest » 03/09/07 09:00 AM

You know I have been to enough club meetings over the years to see plenty of aged hacks who never perform anytime but too their fellow cronies & who after 50 years still can't manage statements of more than "pick a card" or "not that hand but the clean one" who would be proud to boast the abilities this kid has. We are so quick to trounce one's youthful exuberance & quash the work that they have put in, rather than provide some challenging criticism & positive reinforcement for continued growth.
Guest
 

Postby Richard Kaufman » 03/09/07 09:26 AM

The problem here is one of burgeoning visibility on the Internet. All kids go through periods of doing stuff no one should ever see except their unfortunate parents, myself included.

What's different now is that places like YouTube provide a location where everyone can strut their underdeveloped stuff for all the world to see.

All I can say is, YUCK.

People under a certain age just aren't giving any consideration to what they're making public. Look at that tootsie from New Jersey on American Idol who's now pictured all over the Internet sitting on the toilet and in various other candid poses--what the hell was she thinking when she let someone take those photos in an age where ANY photo or video can end up on the Internet and everyone in the world can have the joy of seeing you half naked, toilet paper in hand, having a tiddle?
Subscribe today to Genii Magazine
User avatar
Richard Kaufman
 
Posts: 20540
Joined: 07/18/01 12:00 PM
Location: Washington DC

Postby Guest » 03/09/07 09:48 AM

Old Man Murphy writes:

"Dang kids, comin' round, messin' up my yard...they should know better. In my day we didn't have no innernet to mess with magic. We only had a few people to mess with. We had magic shops to visit. Counter help to annoy. Family members to assault with our skills. Now these kids are forcin' their crap on the whole wide world web. We have no way to protect ourselves or our magic. Back in the day...We had books. Oh sure many of them were crap...BUT we had to publish our embarissin' crap for others to purchase. Now these kids make it all free. FREE! HUH! Free crap! Go figur! And PRIDE...we had pride...nun of this street magic crap...we had DOVES and THEMES...costumes and art. Remember when magic was considered ART? Ah those were the days...magic shops and themes and art...Oh jeez, I gotta pee and I can't get up from this chair...damned kids!"

:) :) :) :)
Guest
 

Postby Guest » 03/09/07 09:48 AM

Richard I can agree with the whole burgeoning visibility perspective, trust me I hate the public voyuerism on you tube & the all too candid & often false personalities exposed on myspace (my kids are banned from it), but there is a whole new generation of people entering into this field that are aggessively pursuing their interests & I would sure rather see them performing in public with the best of intentions then to have them practice in their room & perform only for their magic buddy.
Guest
 

Postby Guest » 03/09/07 09:49 AM

P.T. that was funny
Guest
 

Postby Guest » 03/09/07 10:03 AM

All kids go through periods of doing stuff no one should ever see except their unfortunate parents, myself included.
What WOULD we have done without our parents? Do you think they had any idea what they were doing by ENCOURAGING us? :)
Guest
 

Postby Richard Kaufman » 03/09/07 10:42 AM

I disagree, Tom. I would rather they NOT be performing publically for millions of people around the planet to see when they are fit only to practice in front of a mirror.
Subscribe today to Genii Magazine
User avatar
Richard Kaufman
 
Posts: 20540
Joined: 07/18/01 12:00 PM
Location: Washington DC

Postby Guest » 03/09/07 10:55 AM

I was getting ready to argue the millions comment. But I see one of these clips has over 2 million views! HOLY CRAP!
Guest
 

Postby Brad Henderson » 03/09/07 11:14 AM

It seems that there is more interest in focusing on the use of pronouns than on the content of the message...which echoes the point.

The point has nothing to do with youth per se, or 'us' versus 'them', though it just happens that the youth is the key element of this demographic.

The point has to do with the means of expression overshadowing that which is being expressed.

If there were a giant stride forward in magical technique, we would find many magicians whose magic consisted of little more than technique for techniques sake. They would be focusing on a means of expression without considering what may or may not be expressed. Likewise, if a magical concept became all pervasive (such as 'themes') we would find ourselves inundated with 'theme' acts, acts that focus more on the use of theme rather than considering if something meaningful or of quality is being produced. (Note this not unique to magic and has occurred in all the arts, however I can speak most competently on that which occurred throughout the history of music. The entire history of music can be seen as the development of and reaction to mannerist periods. This is not from the book "My Magic" as someone so snidely remarked, it is gleaned from texts such as Grout and Barzun.)

The problem with the mannerist period in which we find ourselves in magic today is that the techniques which have been developed are "extra-magical," meaning they have nothing to do with magical techinque/style/content per se. At least with most mannerist periods, after they pass, the artist still has recourse to the techniques developed to apply to their art in a conscientious manner. One could argue that magicians will still have the video techniques, but as we all know, making something look good on video does not make that thing good itself. (And we cannot ignore that the beginning on this mannerism may have roots in one or two clever performers realizing that video techniques could enhance their magical performances if carefully used. Sadly, even this version of videographic mannerism has become so omnipresent, so carelessly used, that we have magic shows that viewers click off because their is nothing else for them to care about, or because it simply looks "fake," to them.)

But even throughout the oscillation between mannerist and revolutionary periods in the arts, we see common principles of sound structure and aesthetic that define what music had staying power - even the music which changed the way we listened forever. It was the artists who had both vision and grounding that spoke to the people and advanced their scene. It seems to me, that the number of those in magic who have taken the time to find their grounding is fewer and fewer.

And with the means of production at everyone's fingertips, the models being set for emulation may result in a more ingrained, longer lasting mannerist period than when the number of models are fewer.(This last sentence is speculation, and something I am both concerned and curious to see play out.)

Brad "going to release 'Our Magic' on DVD for the good of all" Henderson
Brad Henderson
 
Posts: 2432
Joined: 01/17/08 01:00 PM
Location: austin, tx

Postby Guest » 03/09/07 11:49 AM

A while back I was inveigled into attending a lecture by the then current magician/flavor of the day. The lecture was attended by about 50 people. I saw no other professionals in the room except the fellow I was with and me. (He had been invited and as I was his transportation, I had to go along.)

The magic taught at the lecture was strictly for the amateur with virtually nothing for a working pro because it was all magic that one played with, not magic that was to be performed. This was made clear to me in a chat with a seatmate.

I learned in discussion with him (an adult male) that he did not perform magic for his family and friends, or anyone it turned out. He performed in front of a mirror, exclusively. I asked a few others around me and found the same situation. While a few might occasionally perform for family and friends, their most constant audience was themselves in a mirror.

I called it "Mirror Magic," and saw it as a harmless variant of the hobbyists approach to magic as a diversion, a way of putting ones day-to-day routine at arms length for awhile.

Unfortunately, there are now a number of people who have no idea that magic as a performance art form is about the interaction of an interesting personality with that of an audience. It is not about the demonstration of skills or tricks with easily-acquired covert juggling skills aquired in front of a mirror. Of course, for the amateur the goal is praise of his technqiue by his fellows, not the entertainment of his audience.

YouTube and its clones have given an outlet for the ignorant and self-absorbed who have no business stepping away from their mirrors. The number of viewings for some of these videos is sad news in that a great many people are being educated as to what magic is, not what it can be in the hands of a competent performer.
Guest
 

Postby Guest » 03/09/07 01:05 PM

If they spent half as much time reading "Our Magic" as they do reading their "Final Cut Pro" manuals, magic would be a better place.
The point has nothing to do with youth per se, or 'us' versus 'them', though it just happens that the youth is the key element of this demographic.
:eek:
Guest
 

Postby Brad Henderson » 03/09/07 02:08 PM

Yes, they...those people who have created/participate the mannerist period of magical videography. It is an indefinate pronoun used to describe a group of people - you know, the people we are talking about. (And as none of them are posting at present, it would be a 'they' or 'them' not 'us' or even 'you.') I am sorry I do not have the time nor knowledge to list them all by name. But I think anyone who has seen the crop of DVDs released to the magical marketplace, the bevvy of clips on youtube, and the teaser videos for magical effects know exactly what this thread is about, and if you can think of a better inclusive word to describe that group - I will happily defer.

In the meantime, please try not to let pedanticism disguised as egalitarianism get in the way of a point I think was fairly clearly made - the use of the pronoun, notwithstanding.
Brad Henderson
 
Posts: 2432
Joined: 01/17/08 01:00 PM
Location: austin, tx

Postby Guest » 03/09/07 02:19 PM

Richard, I agree sorry I wasn't clear enough in my communication, I too would prefer if their performance was not made public through you tube or the net . I was refering to their desire to perform publicly at all, I think it was Eugene Buerger who stated "performance without an audience is nothing more than mental masterbation", feel free to correct me if I am wrong.
Guest
 

Postby Richard Kaufman » 03/09/07 05:03 PM

I don't recall what Eugene wrote, but I would say that performance without an audience is called practice.
Subscribe today to Genii Magazine
User avatar
Richard Kaufman
 
Posts: 20540
Joined: 07/18/01 12:00 PM
Location: Washington DC

Postby Guest » 03/09/07 06:07 PM

Rehearsing an act is a necessity if one has the goal of being a successful entertainer. You rehearse the act completely, imagining an audience so that you can block out the act, learn where things should be placee, refine the placement of props and gimmicks so they are in the most efficient places possible. You shouldn't have to fumble around for anything. You should just reach and you should find it. This takes time and many complete rehearsals to achieve.

This also helps with the timing of the act. In the past I've seen amateur performers who had practiced segments of their acts have no idea of the total length of their acts when asked.
Guest
 

Postby Guest » 03/09/07 06:23 PM

Pedantic? What does that mean? ;)
Guest
 

Postby Guest » 03/09/07 06:24 PM

Oh I just looked it up in my OED...it said see Brad Henderson's posts!
Guest
 

Postby Guest » 03/09/07 08:07 PM

Hey guys, its me..Chris Brown. Thanks for the critiquing. And no i don't use any camera editing. And yes i DO perform...but this was just the attention grabber. People on youtube aren't appealed to performers, they are appealed more to the tricks. Which is why I'll be PERFORMING in my dvd. Anyhow thanks for the feedback, i appreciate it, and i'd like to have more.

Thanks again.

Chris
Guest
 

Postby Richard Kaufman » 03/09/07 08:42 PM

I should add that I have not watch the clip in question on YouTube, merely commenting on the general phenomenon.
Subscribe today to Genii Magazine
User avatar
Richard Kaufman
 
Posts: 20540
Joined: 07/18/01 12:00 PM
Location: Washington DC

Postby Brad Henderson » 03/10/07 12:52 AM

P.T.,

Your spot at the children's table is reserved here:

www.themagiccafe.com

On this forum, we are trying to discuss an issue relating to magic and its growth. Come back when you are ready to contribute.

Brad
Brad Henderson
 
Posts: 2432
Joined: 01/17/08 01:00 PM
Location: austin, tx

Postby Guest » 03/10/07 01:16 AM

Who appointed you the arbiter?
Guest
 

Postby Brad Henderson » 03/10/07 01:25 AM

If PT wants to engage in name calling rather than discussion, then the children's table is where he belongs.

There is an issue under discussion. If he wants to derail it, so be it. But it will not go without commentary.
Brad Henderson
 
Posts: 2432
Joined: 01/17/08 01:00 PM
Location: austin, tx

Postby Guest » 03/10/07 04:39 AM

You are absolutely right Brad. (I hope this humble act of admission can be a lesson for all. Consider it my gift to you.) We should discuss this over lunch. In person. I hope you are as engaging over a Cobb Salad as you are online...

Now it is up to you to take the high round and start treating people with respect. You can start by answering Chris Brown...he is the "they" of whom you speak. Ignore me as I am just tyring to get in your hair...er...um...well you know what I mean.

BTW- WHAT is wrong with the children's table? BH you need a child in your life to remind you of the beauty and wonder that surrounds us. I offer to pay for the Cobb Salad...the hugs will be FREE! We can sit at the children's table. You can make balloon animals for the kiddies and I. Maybe we can teach you about humility.

(The Children Chorus... "YEAH! Balloons! AND Humility! YEAH!")

In the meantime...You have been given the opportunity to RE-rail the discussion...which you seem to have declined...rise to it man! Now is your chance...

We are all waiting to hear what you have to say that will advance magic...and help Chris to become one of "us".
Guest
 

Postby Guest » 03/10/07 06:24 AM

Smooth.
Guest
 

Postby John LeBlanc » 03/10/07 08:35 AM

Chris Brown wrote:
Anyhow thanks for the feedback, i appreciate it, and i'd like to have more.
I think that demonstrates good character. And I think he was being honest.

John
Escamoteurettes -- my blog
John LeBlanc
 
Posts: 866
Joined: 01/17/08 01:00 PM
Location: Houston, TX

Next

Return to Close-Up Magic