Best Non-Gaffed Packet Trick - Marketed

Discuss your favorite close-up tricks and methods.

Postby pduffie » 07/19/01 04:21 PM

Hi

Good non-gaffed packet tricks - here I refer exclusively to tricks sold by dealers - are few and far between. Let's face it - gaffs sell. What's the best non-gaffed one you've seen?

My award goes to Roy Walton's "Cascade." When Roy first showed me this in the 1970's (before it was marketed) he had to get his shop door fixed as the trick blew me away and I landed across the street :-)

My runner-up award, and close 2nd, goes to Alex Elmsley's "Four Card Trick."

Best Wishes

Peter
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Postby Jon Racherbaumer » 07/19/01 05:02 PM

I agree with Peter regarding Walton's "Cascade" (which I still perform) and would add ""Card Warp," although it's a stretch to include a 2-card trick in the packet category.

Bob Walker also published a non-gaffed routine with a packet called "Topsy-Turvy Torsion Version."

Also, how about "Gamble Amble" (Tannens), based on a George SAnds trick published in Hugard's?

Onward...
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Postby Matthew Field » 07/19/01 05:03 PM

Sam Schwartz's "Backflip" doesn't use gaffed cards, as I recall, and it's a doozy. It was also marketed with mirror-backed cards; not gaffed, just mylar backs.

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Postby Joe M. Turner » 07/19/01 05:34 PM

Originally posted by Matthew Field:
not gaffed, just mylar backs.


Which raises the whole question of exactly what constitutes a "gaffed" card. Is it any card with faked markings or movable parts or double faces/backs? Or is it simply any card that doesn't appear in a standard pack that a layman would buy at the drug store?

JMT
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Postby Richard Kaufman » 07/19/01 11:06 PM

My vote for the best non-gaffed packet trick goes to Jennings' "Look, an Illusion." Second would be Dingle's handling of Jennings' in the hands "Wild Card." Both brilliant
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Postby Guest » 07/20/01 12:52 AM

I would consider Michael Skinner's handling
of Martin Gardner's All The Non-Conformistsas one of the better non
gaffed packet effects.However, I'm not certain if it was ever marketed, other than
in a booklet.
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Postby Guest » 07/20/01 02:26 AM

I want to put in a word for "Color Monte." For pure entertainment value, it hits the mark. It isn't too tough, it lends itself to storytelling, and by the time you've gone through it, the finish needs no explanation. You practically just turn over the last card and watch their eyes bug out and jaws drop! One woman that I performed it for recognized me four years later when I sat down behind her at a football game!
-Strompf-
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Postby Richard Kaufman » 07/20/01 10:58 AM

Hi strompf,
Glad to see you online! How's your bear?
Just for the record, "Color Monte" is virtually a direct copy of a trick published in Ibidem in the 1950s by Bill Elliott called, I think, "Monkey Business."
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Postby Reinhard Mueller » 07/20/01 04:32 PM

Richard,
Here is the the exact specification:
Bill Elliott's "3 card Card Monkey Business" from Ibidem # 16, March 1959, p.3.
It is a development of Marlo's "Quick 4-Way" from Ibidem #15, Dec. 1958, p.2 (object: to show 3 cards a seemingly all alike).
By the way you can use the "Tres Arriba"- move, too!
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Postby Brad A._dup1 » 07/20/01 05:22 PM

pure entertainment


I have to agree with strompf about color monte. It is a nice little packet trick (I have seen the one that Richard is talking about too) I like Color Monte though because spectators who aren't too close can still see the big diamonds.

I have to go buy a new packet, I used mine so much the diamonds rubbed off.

-Brad

[ July 20, 2001: Message edited by: bradmagic ]
Former Vonnegut Character
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Postby Richard Kaufman » 07/20/01 06:10 PM

Hi Reinhard,
Welcome to the discussion boards! Thanks for the exact reference. There are quite a few items in that first volume of Ibidem which I published that surprised me: Norm Houghton's first publication of Hamman's Flushtration Count; the early publication of that Gordon Bruce Pocket Dodge that Karl Fulves later republished ... more, too, I think. Can't remember because all I think about now is Genii!
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Postby Matthew Field » 07/21/01 11:04 AM

I, too, would like to welcome the great Reinhard Mueller. His "Escorial" series of books is of inestimable value to me, especially the Jennings and Gilbreath volumes.

Brad says his "Color Monte" cards are wearing out, and I, too, have had that problem. I've now switched to the Ace of Spades and Queen of Hearts with the $14 special card. I think it plays better.

As an aside, another reason I changed the cards was I once performed it at a party and got a good response from the crowd, but the spectator who was assisting later took me aside and said he didn't know what was going on.

He was color blind!!

Matt Field

[ July 24, 2001: Message edited by: bradmagic ]
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Postby Jon Racherbaumer » 07/21/01 12:51 PM

An interesting side-bar to the Color Monte "thread" is that the fellow who developed the all-important "presentation" that redeems the Quick Three- or Four-Ways of Marlo and provide a killer ap, worked with the CIA in D.C. He subsequently "disappeared" or was "re-located." Emerson and West could never find him to pay royalties on a trick that sold 10,000 to 15,000 units (Who's counting?). In any case, the fellow eventually re-surfaced and was astonished that his trick was a smash. I dunno if he ever got any $$. One would have to ask Art Emerson...

Onward...
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Postby Jamie Badman » 07/21/01 05:31 PM

I have to cast my vote for Peter Kane's 'Jazz Aces'; what you see is what you get. Seems so fair and ends so clean; what more could you ask for ?!

Jamie.
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Postby Rafael Benatar » 07/22/01 07:05 PM

How about Too Many Cards, which I think is Dingle's version of Jennings' Ambitious Classic. Does anyone knows anything else about the origins of that trick? I would also include Twisting the Aces in its original form. Does Oil and Water count? My favorite versions are those of Ascanio and Tamariz. And Jennings' in the hands version based on Kosby's, which I'm currently using Jennings. And if O&W counts, I'd add Walton's Oil & Queens. For table performances I use 2 phases of Ascanio's, and a strategy to move smoothly into Oil and Queens.
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Postby Doug Conn » 07/22/01 11:52 PM

"Sympathetic Cards" (another Emerson and West golden oldie) has a home in my
bag of tricks.

The inventor of the trick escapes my brain
(R.... something)

2 cents,
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Postby Guest » 07/23/01 12:49 PM

I like "Oil and Water" as well.
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Postby Guest » 07/24/01 05:34 AM

In my opinion, Elmsley's 4 card trick is something I will perform for life. No gaffs, and you can give the cards to examine (at the end, of course ;))
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Postby Tomas Blomberg » 07/24/01 10:39 AM

Originally posted by Rafael Benatar:
How about Too Many Cards, which I think is Dingle's version of Jennings' Ambitious Classic. Does anyone knows anything else about the origins of that trick?

In Focus, Phil Goldstein provides some info in the description of Con-Sequence. He says that the starting point was Hamman's Amorphous Ace and that Persi Diaconis had a related effect in the early 1970's.

/Tomas
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Postby Richard Kaufman » 07/24/01 11:16 AM

Jennings' "Ambitious Classic" was inspired by a routine of Bill Miesel's which appeared in Ibidem. The Miesel routine was a packet Ambitious Card using the entire run of, I believe, Spade cards. It had no color-changing climax.
Of course, Miesel is also the source for the no-palming version of Marlo's Open Travelers, later turned by Jennings into the classic Invisible Palm Aces
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Postby Guest » 07/24/01 02:54 PM

Is anyone familiar with a packet trick video which includes an effect called "Kopy Kat Jacks"? I believe it is simply "Cascade". I have performed "Kopy Kat Jacks" for a few years, wondering if I am performing "Cascade". What is the difference, if any?
Scarnecky
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Postby Carl Mercurio » 07/24/01 03:01 PM

My vote for the best non-gaffed packet trick is Bro. John's The Pinocle Trick. I also wouldn't argue with Father Cyp's Wild Card.
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Postby Carl Mercurio » 07/24/01 03:06 PM

Sorry for my last posting. I just saw the "marketed" in the title of the forum. I don't think either the Pinocle Trick or Cyp's Wild Card were ever marketed. :(
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Postby Guest » 07/24/01 07:58 PM

Colour Monte is the only packet trick I ever use. I think whether the cards are gaffed or not a packet trick leads the spec to conclude somehow that they are gaffed. Colour Monte gives a perfectly good reason for keeping these card in a "wallet"etc.because they are quite openly explained that they are special cards and kept just as the original gambler had.

One extra thing that I put in the presentation is a visual explanation of how the "scam" is pulled by performing a chameleon change before laying the diamonds on the table.
;) [*]null
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Postby Guest » 07/26/01 09:47 AM

One of my all-time favorites in this
catagory is Dai Vernon's Royal Monte
published in the Stars of Magic format
by Dr. Daley. This brilliant routine
became the forerunner for many of the
packet effects that followed. Often
over-looked...check it out.
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Postby Steve Bryant » 07/26/01 09:58 AM

The Asher Twist in Lee's hands (and damn near everyone else's I've seen do it) looks stunning. Steinmeyer's 9-card trick is essentiallly a packet trick and is perhaps the best of the self-working card tricks.
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Postby Jim Morton » 07/26/01 04:35 PM

Speaking of Color Monte, when I thought I had lost my Color Monte set, I devised a variation using three of those pesky guarantee cards that come with every pack of Bikes. Since all the faces were the same, the object was to guess the back color. I show three red cards, then three blue cards, and finally show a red and a blue and ask the spectator to guess the color of the third back.

I later found my Color Monte set in a jacket I hadn't worn since the Winter, but I now prefer doing the guarantee card version.
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Postby Doug Conn » 07/26/01 11:32 PM

A lot of attention has been given to the Color Monte / 3 Card Monkey biz...

I think Paul Wilson's version (on his Knock Em Dead video) is worth mentioning. So, there, I mentioned it. I'd tell ya more about the trick, but I wouldn't want to ruin the experience when you see it. If you've seen it, you already know it's good. (If ya disagree, please enlighten me as to why.)

Doug Conn

PS: That "disagree / enlighten' thing is to be read tongue in cheek. (Spending 62 days of my life, arguing about the commercial value of cards with colored diamonds on them is not my idea of a good time.) So far, this board has been a heck of a good time. Congrats gents!
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Postby Guest » 07/27/01 07:57 AM

"Too Many Cards" is indeed one of my favorites. One of our local card experts, Hank Miller, suggests starting with the five and ending with the ace as a better climax. Anyone out there perform it this way?
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Postby Guest » 07/30/01 07:44 AM

(apart from its never being marketed...)

I'd like to mention John Carney's Sanverted: fabulous & simple.
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Postby Richard Kaufman » 07/30/01 12:02 PM

Roger, I've never actually seen ANYONE perform Vernon's Royal Monte, and it's one fo the few things in Stars of Magic that I've never fiddled with.
How good is it?
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Postby Rafael Benatar » 07/30/01 12:21 PM

Thanks, Richard, for the info on Ambitious Card Classic. I'd call it a Jennings effect then. Here's a presentation I sometimes use for somebody's birthday: Use 1 thru 5 of Hearts and a duplicate 5H in which you have written: "Happy Birthday whoever". Begin the effect and, noticing you don't have your wand, use a marker to tap every time. For the finish, ask the spectator to open the marker and wave it over the remaining face-down card without touching, and tell everyone to project their thoughts to the tip of the marker. No one will deny that was what they were thinking.
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Postby Jon Racherbaumer » 07/30/01 12:24 PM

I'm sure that everyone has noticed that this "thread" (on packet tricks) has generated the most responses, namely because almost everybody has an opinion or view about the topic. It's like asking, "What is your favorite dessert?"

However, it is more difficult to explain why you like something or why you think it is a great "something."

If, for example, someone asks, "What do you think about using the subject of death in a magic trick?", chances are the "thread" will quickly break or unravel. Interestingly enough, Robery Neale went against the grain and published a book titled LIFE, DEATH & OTHER CARD TRICKS. This was not only interesting...it was brave.

So...

Any ideas about death-and-magic, folks?

Hmmmmm...

...that's what I thought!
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Postby Guest » 07/30/01 01:36 PM

Death and magic? Hofzinser's Rose Mirror (The Apotheosis of the Rose) is pure poetry, but of course thats to be expected!
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Postby Jim Morton » 07/30/01 01:57 PM

Originally posted by Jon Racherbaumer:
Any ideas about death-and-magic, folks?


I LIKE it, but I am a very morbid guy. :D

I enjoyed Mr. Neale's book. I like the idea of provocative magic. Too often magicians shy away from anything that makes the audience uncomfortable, or prods them to think. Death is a good one to explore because it is such a taboo subject these days. People can no longer even bring themselves to say that someone "died" anymore. Nowadays people talk of loved ones having "passed." To me, this has always sounded awful. Gallstones pass; people die.

When magicians do push those boundaries, and force their audiences to examine their values, the results can be spectacular. As an example of this, witness Penn & Teller's American Flag routine.

Jim
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Postby Guest » 07/30/01 07:34 PM

Jon,
Regarding Death and Magic..... I have seen quite a few magicians die a slow death in front of an audience. I don't think that is what you were referring to though!
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Postby barrygitelson » 07/30/01 09:09 PM

When I went to my first magic convention, the year escapes me, it was an IBM convention aboard the Queen Mary in Long Beach, I had only been studying magic for a few years. One of the first performers I met was Larry Jennings who thrilled me with what he could do with a deck of cards. A few months ago I went back to it and read ... and learned his "Classic Ambitious" and would have to say it is now my favorite non - gaffed packet trick. Time to read some more of those old books on the shelf.
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Postby Rafael Benatar » 08/06/01 05:41 PM

quoted from Richard's post

I've never actually seen ANYONE perform Vernon's Royal Monte, and it's one fo the few things in Stars of Magic that I've never fiddled with. How good is it?


Thanks to Roger Klause's post, I've fiddled with it for the first time and here is what I think. It's deviously clever. Wonderful ways to conceal the extra cards used while showing nothing but single edges. However, I can see why nobody uses it: Calls for very neat handling. Needs a set-up that is not open. You end up with the extra cards in gamblers cop. Nothing wrong with any of that, but put it all together and it gets a little awkward. Also, what happens in the trick is only clear because of the patter which is a bit far-fetched. Yet, I want to try it out with in front of an audience. I think the quote next to the title says it all: "A lesson in artistic card handling."

[ August 06, 2001: Message edited by: Rafael Benatar ]
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Postby Jamie Badman » 08/17/01 01:10 PM

Personally I think there's nothing that surpasses Love and Death emotionally in life. Doesn't it follow that to use these in Magical Presentations means that one way or another you'll get a reaction. Love's probably not so bad but with Death, you stand more chance of invoking a mood you'll not be able to subsequently shake off. It doesn't seem quite appropriate to follow a presentational story involving death with a snappy little sponge ball number or dippy duck nodding down and picking a card!

Very situational and awkward. Doesn't mean there's no place for it; just means that it's not easily accomodated.

A friend and I have developed a magical effect that can be presented with a morbid edge but the surrounding story sets that aspect of it in such a way that we hope it's not offensive but more sad-romantic. Let's face it, women love pulp romance and there's a fair few heroes die at the end of those (or so I've been told!) but they'll still keep on reading... so there's definitely a place for the morbid.

I suppose using Tarot in effects is similar in some ways. Also incorporating satanic references. There's a great effect in one of the recent Crimps (Issue 51 perhaps) by Jackie McClements which has a very satanic ending that's worth checking out if tricks involving The Dark One crack your walnuts!

Jamie.
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Postby Gordolini » 08/25/01 07:52 AM

Roy walton has published a great trick in his two volume trick books, "The Complete Walton". The trick is called "Oils and Queens" and was shown to Roy by Jerry Sadowitz. The effect is as follows:

8 indifferent spot cards are shown - red, black, red, black...
Then one pile of 4 cards is dealt onto the table face down. That leaves the magi with 4 cards, which when turned over are shown to be all black. This means that the 4 cards on the table are all red. Wrong... they're all Queens.

Great trick and good reaction with the ending.
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