rubber band magic

Discuss your favorite close-up tricks and methods.
Guest

rubber band magic

Postby Guest » January 19th, 2007, 1:05 pm

Am I the only band shark at this forum?
Al Angello

Ian Kendall
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Re: rubber band magic

Postby Ian Kendall » January 19th, 2007, 2:49 pm

No.

Take care, Ian

Guest

Re: rubber band magic

Postby Guest » January 19th, 2007, 3:28 pm

Ian
What tricks do you do, oh man of few words?
Al

Ian Kendall
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Re: rubber band magic

Postby Ian Kendall » January 20th, 2007, 1:38 am

Morning Al,

Fewer these days than before. In the early to mid nineties I never went anywhere without a wrist full of bands (these days they are kept in a pocket...) One happy memory of the time was sitting with Daryl in Blackpool when he noticed the bands. When he asked how many tricks I knew with them I replied 'all of them, I think'. When he said 'show me' I was in hog heaven and ran through the gamut...

I learned early on, though, that for performances it paid to keep things simple, and I've stuck with the same two or three routines since then. I do enjoy playing around with new moves when I see them, but I've not seen anything in a long time that made me want to develop it further.

There's one thing I do that I've not seen anywhere else; it's a five pointed star on your fingers, but the star is in the centre of your hand, not with a point on each finger. I put that on the Virtual Sessions last year.

Take care, Ian

Guest

Re: rubber band magic

Postby Guest » January 20th, 2007, 6:44 am

Not quite a band shark but I drop jaws with rubber bands on a regular basis. I do the broken and restored silliness, the crazy-man and once in a while I'll snort one or let a ring creep up one.
I've thought about buying Dan Harlan's tapes a few times, but I always opt not to for the following reason: I've never been amazed by any band effect other than the tricks I already do. There seem to be plenty of mediocre effects which make people scratch their heads instead of widening their facial features. Do any of you get good reactions consistantly with effects other than the ones I've mentioned above?

Guest

Re: rubber band magic

Postby Guest » January 20th, 2007, 8:48 am

OK guys I have come to the right place. The one handed star is a Marc Fitzgerald trick, and he has a video of it on his web site.

When I do CMH I do it in three steps. First I display the two rubber bands, then I do the trick, after that I do it with the spectator holding one rubber band, then I maks a quick switch (the yellow one), and finish with Alan Wongs "stargazer" this is a devistating finish, because they are sure you have magically made the transformation.

There is a lot of medeoker rubber band tricks out there, but the Vince Mendoza manuscript is the best rubber band magic there is, and when you do his two tricks his principles can be adapted to many many more tricks.

The Dan Harlan 4 DVD set is rubber band magic 101, and you will not use all of his stuff, but it is a must buy to be really good.

The godfather Vinny Marini has some devistating moves that are equal to Vince Mendoza.

Joe Reindfleish, and Daniel Garcia have some good stuff too.

Russ Niedzwieki's "pinnacle" is a must buy if you want the perfect compliment to Vince Mendoza's "rhing thing".

I purchased the Peter Roberts "ring and rubber band plus" which is a fabulous routine he copped from Joe Reindfleish. It is a little pricy, but I love it.
THATS A START
Al Angello

Guest

Re: rubber band magic

Postby Guest » January 20th, 2007, 9:17 am

Originally posted by Al Angello:
OK guys I have come to the right place. The one handed star is a Marc Fitzgerald trick, and he has a video of it on his web site.

When I do CMH I do it in three steps. First I display the two rubber bands, then I do the trick, after that I do it with the spectator holding one rubber band, then I maks a quick switch (the yellow one), and finish with Alan Wongs "stargazer" this is a devistating finish, because they are sure you have magically made the transformation.

There is a lot of medeoker rubber band tricks out there, but the Vince Mendoza manuscript is the best rubber band magic there is, and when you do his two tricks his principles can be adapted to many many more tricks.

The Dan Harlan 4 DVD set is rubber band magic 101, and you will not use all of his stuff, but it is a must buy to be really good.

The godfather Vinny Marini has some devistating moves that are equal to Vince Mendoza.

Joe Reindfleish, and Daniel Garcia have some good stuff too.

Russ Niedzwieki's "pinnacle" is a must buy if you want the perfect compliment to Vince Mendoza's "rhing thing".

I purchased the Peter Roberts "ring and rubber band plus" which is a fabulous routine he copped from Joe Reindfleish. It is a little pricy, but I love it.
THATS A START
Al Angello
Two Questions:

1. How much of the above material uses gimmicked rubberbands - particularly ones that you probably cannot gimmick yourself?

2. How much of the ungimmicked material that you mention is not on Dan Harlan's DVD set?

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Re: rubber band magic

Postby Ian Kendall » January 20th, 2007, 10:30 am

Al,

I'm not familiar with Mark Fitzgerald's star, and I couldn't find his site through Google. Does it look anything like this:

www.virtualmagicshow.com/stuff/bandstar.jpg

Take care, Ian

Guest

Re: rubber band magic

Postby Guest » January 20th, 2007, 12:07 pm

Slavatron
Dan Harlan only has one trick where he uses a thumb tip, but he has over 50 tricks on his 4 DVDs, all other rubber band magic that I know of is ungimmicked, with the exception of Alan Wongs "stargazer".

Ian
The trick you are doing is not Mark Fitzgeralds one handed star. You are doing Alan Wong's "stargazer", and you are selling yourself short if you don't have Alan's star shaped rubber band for the big finish. I give away about 1,000 stars a year, with my business card, believe me they pay for them selves many times over. Mark Fitzgerald's web site is http://www.ring170.homestead.com/mark.html he also has another video demo of "back together" which is CMH in reverse.
HAVE FUN
Al

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Re: rubber band magic

Postby Ian Kendall » January 20th, 2007, 12:25 pm

Hi Al,

Thanks for the info - a quick question, if you know. Did Alan originate the star, or did he add the star shaped band for the finish?

I was shown the shape by a Chinese medical student in 1988, and I've never seen it anywhere else. If Alan did indeed come up with the star it would be nice to finally have the correct credit!

Take care, Ian

Guest

Re: rubber band magic

Postby Guest » January 20th, 2007, 12:51 pm

Ian
The trick belongs to Alan Wong. He is a Chinese English men living in Hong Kong. His email address is AWONG@alterta.com Buy your star shaped rubber bands fron him there are a lot of knockoffs out there. Please tell Alan I sent you.
Al Angello

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Re: rubber band magic

Postby Ian Kendall » January 20th, 2007, 1:18 pm

Thanks for the mail address - I've sent a note to Alan to clear some things up.

I'm not looking for the bands - I would never perform it. I'm trying to find out if the star stretch form is a traditional 'cat's cradle' type thing, and Alan added the kicker, or if he designed it in the first place.

I'm not knocking Alan here, there's an important thing to sort. As I was shown the move almost twenty years ago by a med student with no interest in magic (I know this as we had a mutual friend and discussed it) I assumed it was a traditional bit. I had not seen it before or since, and I put a tutorial on it as part of my Virtual Sessions site. However, if Alan did design the form then there are crediting and permission issues at stake which I would like to resolve.

Take care, Ian

Guest

Re: rubber band magic

Postby Guest » January 20th, 2007, 2:10 pm

Ian
The trick is for sale at most on line dealers for $16, Hank Lee has a demo of it on his site. It is simply called "Stargazer" by Alan Wong. Look it up, or google it. I don't know how old it is, but it is not new.
Al Angello

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Re: rubber band magic

Postby Ian Kendall » January 20th, 2007, 2:38 pm

Al, I'm not talking about the marketed trick - I found that on Google. I'm talking about the stretching of a band on the fingers of two hands to create the star.

Take care, Ian

Guest

Re: rubber band magic

Postby Guest » January 20th, 2007, 6:22 pm

Ian
The trick is called "Stargazer" by Alan Wong, not the gimmick the trick. If you have any evidence to the contrary please produce it or stop guessing. I have a mountain of evidence, and you have are silly notion. I am here to spread the word of rubber band magic, not to have a rediculous debate with someone who just tooooo suborn to give in. Why don't you email Alan I'm sure he will get a kick out of you.
Al Angello

Guest

Re: rubber band magic

Postby Guest » January 20th, 2007, 7:44 pm

Gentlemen:
This thread has reminded me that some of the best close-up tricks I have ever seen have used rubber bands.
As none of the ones in mind have been named above, I am prompted to mention a few.

All of the following were performed for me by Michael Weber, over the span of several months, years ago.

1. The Boomerang Band (a cunning-stunt)--this is Michael's famous solution to the myth about the rubber band that could be shot out 15 feet and roll right back to your feet like a wheel.

2. The Guttapercha Connection--After demonstrating the above stunt, Michael said he could make two roll back at a time. He shot the bands, but they didn't roll back. He acted as if he couldn't understand why it didn't work. When one walked down the hall and picked up the bands, ostensibly to bring them back to him for another try at the "failed stunt", they were found to be linked.
(Aside: He just loves getting you during that off-beat, that smug moment of down-time that every one of us all-knowing magi have after we hastily conclude that "know what's going on" and let down our guard like a sucker, but I digress...)

3. Flashlink--one of Weber's items that appeared in "Richard's Almanac": the visual linking of two bands. When they just "hop together" it is the real s***.

4. Rubber Ringer by Bill Kalush. I will never forget the "show" proving the 2nd penetration: the band going straight through the ring. My brain froze.
Weber said, "That's Bill Kalush", turned on his heel and walked off, leaving me slack-jawed with bafflement.
--I still have my hastily-scrawled notes recording the method as Michael tipped it after a bit of begging (a month or two before Mr. K. published it in the "Almanac"...hee hee)...I was so blown away and excited by such a trick, my hands were shaking as I wrote the secret, to the point that the notes are basically indecipherable today.

Oh Baby! Those were the days.

I fully appreciate that I have never seen MOST rubber band magic, so I honestly have no idea about the latest advances, and what wacky, amazing material might be out there.

But I remember those clean, basic, straight-forward effects (done by a maestro) as if I saw them this morning. :)

Guest

Re: rubber band magic

Postby Guest » January 20th, 2007, 8:03 pm

Castawaydave
The "boomerang" rubber band trick is a trick that has been passed down by word of mouth since the turn of the century over 107 years ago. Just how old is your inventor friend? Anyone who tells you he invented this trick is full of baloney. I have a demo, and tutorial of this legendary trick on my web site for free http://www.juggleral.com just click rubber band man, and click the words on the right of the screen. There are two different handelings for this trick. Dan Harlan has one on his DVD collection, and I learned an easier handeling from Don Cox a retired magician from Chatanooga Tennessee. There are VERY VERY few people on earth who know how to do this amazing trick. You must seperate fact, from fiction or you will become as confused as Ian.
Al Angello

Guest

Re: rubber band magic

Postby Guest » January 20th, 2007, 9:01 pm

Dear Al,
Man, you know your stuff. I certainly defer to your superior, near-encyclopedic knowledge. I will just mention a few additional tid-bits...

Mike Weber's handling for the Boomerang Band (the set up) is actually quite different from the one in your clip. It was described in Magicana in "Genii" (sorry, don't have the exact issue in front of me--very early 80s I believe), and in the games-column of the old "Omni" magazine. I first saw him do it around 1982.

I don't remember all the details of the "legendary" story that spawned it, but once (in the 60s?) some guys, including I believe Frank Garcia, made up a story about a bartender they'd seen in Mexico that could do incredible tricks. --This story was fabricated to make Dai Vernon jealous because he had not gone with the group on their trip to Mexico.

As the story goes, the puzzle went unsolved for years, until Senor Weber figured out a way to do it.
And I am pleased to know that there are very very few other people on earth that can do it!!

Best--Dave Cox, S.F.

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Re: rubber band magic

Postby Ian Kendall » January 21st, 2007, 1:36 am

Morning Al,

Thanks for your last email. I think you need to take a step back and reread my posts. You'll notice that I did mail Al as soon as you gave me his address...

I am not accusing Al of anything (as you seem to believe). I'm not disputing Stargazer as Al's trick (as you seem to believe). I'm trying to find out if the tutorial I have on my site is of Al's invention.

There are two scenarios that I can see;

1. Al designed the star formation sometime prior to 1988 - long enough for it to be known by a student with no magic interest at all.

2. The star formation is a classic 'cat's cradle' type from (probably) Chinese culture. Al learned this from somewhere and then applied the removal of the star band to create the magic effect.

An intersting aside; this second scenario would be analagous to the Boomerang Band; my intructions are by Chris Kenner and Dan Garrett - from the introduction

"To the best of my knowledge, this was originally a circus juggling stunt. I had heard of the effect and read about it in Charlie Miler's Magicana section of Genii magazine, but had not actually seen the effect done until last year at John Mendoza's Magic Day where Michael Weber demonstrated it for me. His method was 100% surefire."

This is most likely an old move that had been refined by Mike and then described for magicians.

Now, if scenario one it true, then there is an issue with my tutorial. If scenario two is true, then I think I'm in the clear. This is why I want to know, not to remove credit from Al (as you seem to believe).

I think some deep breaths are needed here - I did not come into this thread with malice, but you are reacting as if I did. You may have come to spread the word about band magic - an admirable passtime and one which I did myself with vigour about fifteen years ago. But other people know a wee bit about band history as well, and to attack Mike Weber without knowing him puts you in the same box as you have put me. (for information, the method described by Kenner was taught to Dan Garrett by, you guessed it, Don Cox). I'm happy to be one of the very few people who can do it.

Relax, Al, and we'll get through this...

Take care, Ian

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Re: rubber band magic

Postby Ian Kendall » January 21st, 2007, 4:40 am

Al,

An addition. I watched your video clip with the Stargazer performance. There seems to be a fundamental difference between our methods; Al's version uses two bands, mine uses only one.

Also, as Dave pointed out, Mike Weber's setup for the boomerang band is different to Don Cox's. To quote again from Dan Garrett's booklet:

[concerning the Genii write up] "The method described there was quiet different from the tequnique taught to me by Don Cox. I showed this method to Paul Sponaugle, who became very proficient at it, and to Michael Weber, whose creative juices took over. Weber was soon able to perform the fear using either hand with equal facility. He developed an original routine in which he shot two rubber bands, one on each hand, simultaneously, having both return. He would then load and shoot both rubber bands on the same hand, only to have the bands permanently linked together. In this, Michael sparked a major revision of interest in rubber band magic. Just thought the "historians" would like to know the story from my perspective. Now, back to Chris and a detailed explanation of the working..."

On the subject of Chris Kenner, the Found Link on your video looks an awful lot like Missing Link from Out of Control. Also, Crazy Man's Handcuffs was originated by Arthur Setterington, not Michael Ammar.

Take care, Ian

Guest

Re: rubber band magic

Postby Guest » January 21st, 2007, 7:08 am

Where to start
This is a lot to digest. The Chris Kenner trick does not feature the one handed display, and although they look some what similar they are handled totally different. There are two different handlings of the "boomerang", Don Cox was thaught his handling over over 60 years ago by an elderly magician friend of his, and the legend goes on. I'm going to take a shower now, and I will get back to you.
Al

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Re: rubber band magic

Postby Ian Kendall » January 21st, 2007, 7:23 am

Hi Al,

Thanks - after I posted I realised that Found Link and Missing Link might be related...I thought that the Kenner version had the one handed display, but on close examination it was a two finger display instead. The setup did seem very similar, though.

After watching your boomerang band method (the Cox version) I have to say that the Weber/Kenner method looks a lot cleaner and easier to set up. I got the booklet from Dan Garrett - you could drop him a line and ask if he has any left (it was fourteen years ago, so maybe not...)

On the subject of the boomerang, Paul Daniels did it on one of his TV shows ages ago - I was talking to Ali Bongo about it (after showing him) and he talked about the impossibility of filming it. In the end they used a long strip of carpet and filmed it in slow motion.

So far I have three successful attempts at getting the band up my arm and into a shirt pocket. Given the number of times I've done it, that's a success rate that is bordering on molecular :D

Take care, Ian

Guest

Re: rubber band magic

Postby Guest » January 21st, 2007, 7:39 am

The method you are talking about requires you to lock your pinky finger, which I could never do, if you try the Don Cox method you will get more torque. I get it up my arm, and in my pocket about 1 out of 3 times.

Chris Kenner's "missing" link is much closer to Harry Lorayne's "snap" than it is to Vince Mendoza's "found link". Those two old tricks are simply not in the same class.


If you make a star with one rubber band, and have no souvenir is it magic, or just nifty?
Al

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Re: rubber band magic

Postby Ian Kendall » January 21st, 2007, 8:43 am

Nifty, definitely.

Take care, Ian

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Re: rubber band magic

Postby Harry Lorayne » January 21st, 2007, 8:52 am

Hey Al: Through the years I've been told that I started the current rubber-band magic craze with Snap!, which I first released in HEX way back in 1969. If that's true (is it?) I don't know whether I want to take the credit or the blame! What do you think? Best - HARRY LORAYNE.

Guest

Re: rubber band magic

Postby Guest » January 21st, 2007, 9:44 am

When Paul Daniels comed to Rome years ago,at a restaurant I asked him to show everybody his version of the boomerang rb,and he did it on the floor of the restaurant with great success!And you cannot imagine the expressions on people's faces!You can find his explanation,and also the penetrating rb on his DVD:Inner Secrets of Professional Magic.....
Does someone know how to keep"fresh" the rubber bands?They seem to dry quite easily....

Mark Collier
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Re: rubber band magic

Postby Mark Collier » January 21st, 2007, 9:59 am

Try keeping the rb's in a plastic bag and then in a paper bag inside the refrigerator. You can even put a damp paper towel in the plastic bag with them. The key is to keep them in a cool dark place that isn't too dry.

Guest

Re: rubber band magic

Postby Guest » January 21st, 2007, 10:23 am

Mr. Lorayne
Yes " Snap" started everything, and we all have been inspired by you. How did you like Vinny Marini's "breakaway bracelet" demo? Of course without your early work he would have never got the idea.
THANKS
Al Angello

PS- Mr.Lorayne My last summer invitation to buy you a cup of coffee the next time we visit NYC still stands.

Guest

Re: rubber band magic

Postby Guest » January 21st, 2007, 2:22 pm

Castawaydave
There are lots of different rubber band to rubber band, and ring to rubber band penetrations out there, it is hard for me to tell you which one was used.

Anyone trying to learn the "boomerang" rubber band trick I strongly reccomend the Alliance rubber bands, because they are the best quality on the market, and you will need a good one if you want that sucker to roll up your arm. Size 16, 18, 32, and 33 are the most popular.
Al Angello

Guest

Re: rubber band magic

Postby Guest » January 21st, 2007, 2:43 pm

Ian
If you are making the star with one rubber band, I suggest you look at Marc Fitzgerald's one handed star.

Oh yes CMH was made popular by Michael Ammar, and David Copperfield, but it was Arthor Setterington's "rubber band penetration" long before that, and I believe Mr. Setterington died in 2006 well into his 90's.
Al

Guest

Re: rubber band magic

Postby Guest » January 21st, 2007, 3:11 pm

For the record, David Harkey published Starweaver in the August 1991 issue of Genii. It is an effect that has the performer creating a one handed star from an examined rubberband. Upon raising the star to "hang" it in the sky, the middle strands disappear to become a rubberband star. This clearly predates the marketed effect by at least eight years as the instructions for Stargazer state "Created by Alan Wong All rights reserved 1999". The effects are slightly different but the basic concept of changing a regular rubberband to a star shaped one is there.

The one handed star that is explained is different from the Mark Fitzgerald method by one step. Harkey states that he was taught the one handed star by Jeff McBride who claimed it as his own.

Lastly, I've known how to make a two handed star from a rubberband since I was a kid. That's at least thirty-five years ago. Don't remember who taught it to me but probably a relative.

Guest

Re: rubber band magic

Postby Guest » January 21st, 2007, 3:24 pm

Frank
Thank you for that perfectly clear answer, now that is the kind of answer I can really sink my teeth into.
Thanks
Al Angello

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Re: rubber band magic

Postby Ian Kendall » January 21st, 2007, 3:28 pm

I'm happy with the version I have now, thanks :D

Frank, may I ask if you are Chinese? If a relative taught you the two handed star 35 years ago there's a good chance that scenario B is accurate...

I don't use it as any part of a magic routine - it's just something to do with a band. Years ago when I might have been performing for students I would bring it out for any Goths that may be there, simply because the pentagram is upside down when finished :)

Take care, Ian

Guest

Re: rubber band magic

Postby Guest » January 21st, 2007, 4:52 pm

I learned the "Star within a Star" (the name I gave it; I'll also call it "double star" for short) about 40 years ago when I was in elementary school for a few years in Hong Kong. At that time ALL the kids in school knew how to do it. Many years later I also met some Phillipinos that also knew how to do it and they also said it very common knowledge when they were in elementary school in the Phillipines. Together with the double star was another stunt where you wind the rubber band around your thumb and forefinger of say your left hand and you then "karate chop it" with your right hand and the band "breaks" (I guess you could also look at it as an effect where the band penetrates your forefinger and onto the thumb). It was called "chopping wood". I don't know how to describe it without a lot of words or video but the reason it's usually shown/learned/taught together with the double star is because it starts out the same way as the double star. Then you pull a strand over the thumb and another over the forefinger to get the "wood".

I've shown the star to several magicians over the years. I remember showing it to Jeff McBride and 1984 and to Dan Harlan roughly 10 years later. Can't remember whether I ever showed them the penetration effect since I had always consider that a trivial effect.

Anyways, Alan Wong's "Star Gazer" shows how to make the one handed star but not the "Star within a Star" that Ian mentioned. I had always suspected that Alan knew how to make the double star as it was an absolutely perfect lead in to his prop and effect.

Guest

Re: rubber band magic

Postby Guest » January 21st, 2007, 5:23 pm

Topspin
Go to my web site http://www.juggleral.com I have a video of me doing Alan Wongs "stargazer". Click rubberband man , then click the words to the right of the screen.
Al Angello

Guest

Re: rubber band magic

Postby Guest » January 21st, 2007, 7:55 pm

Yes Ian, I am Chinese and along with Topspin's recollections it certainly looks like your scenario 2 could be true.

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Re: rubber band magic

Postby Ian Kendall » January 22nd, 2007, 12:16 am

Thanks Frank - I'm happy to find that I'm not so confused after all :)

Take care, Ian

Guest

Re: rubber band magic

Postby Guest » January 22nd, 2007, 10:48 am

Thanks Al for the link to your video.

There might be some slight confusion in this thread about the double star due to the fact that it could be made with two rubber bands (as in Alan's trick) as well as a single band. I thought it was more magical and mysterious if you made the double star with a single band and then "pluck" out the star shaped band. I remember the hard part was finding the right color bands to match the star shaped ones that were provided.

Anyways, I figured the double star has got to be on YouTube somewhere and sure enough a quick search turned up:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=S1TGgFHCFLM

By the way, I remember many years ago seeing the double star explained in a Chinese book on children's amusement. The book was from Taiwan.

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Re: rubber band magic

Postby Ian Kendall » January 22nd, 2007, 11:58 am

Yep, that's the same method I use :)

Al, I hope you realise now that I did not have a 'silly notion' and 'being sooo stubborn to just give in' would have been wrong. Feel free to bring on your 'mountain of evidence', but I feel fairly safe at this point.

Take care, Ian

Guest

Re: rubber band magic

Postby Guest » January 22nd, 2007, 4:16 pm

Originally posted by Frank Yuen:
For the record, David Harkey published Starweaver in the August 1991 issue of Genii. It is an effect that has the performer creating a one handed star from an examined rubberband. Upon raising the star to "hang" it in the sky, the middle strands disappear to become a rubberband star. This clearly predates the marketed effect by at least eight years as the instructions for Stargazer state "Created by Alan Wong All rights reserved 1999". The effects are slightly different but the basic concept of changing a regular rubberband to a star shaped one is there.

The one handed star that is explained is different from the Mark Fitzgerald method by one step. Harkey states that he was taught the one handed star by Jeff McBride who claimed it as his own.

Lastly, I've known how to make a two handed star from a rubberband since I was a kid. That's at least thirty-five years ago. Don't remember who taught it to me but probably a relative.
There's a German book called "Gummiringe: eine Enzyklopdie" by Dr. Edi Brum which is a large collection of rubber band tricks from lots of sources. Starweaver is included, but it's attributed to Eugene Jefferson and the source is given as "Harkey for a Year" (was that David Harkey's Genii column?). The finish where you remove the star is not described.

The original "Elastrix" book has a two-handed 5-point star and a two-handed 6-point star, but they are a bit different.

Does anyone know the originator of the effect where you start with a band around the left thumb and index finger and pull it down with the right index finger, and when it snaps back there are two, one on the left thumb and one on the left index finger? Someone showed me it years ago but didn't know whose it was, and I saw it again recently in a book for the general public without credit. The guy who showed me it thought it was in Apocalypse, but I haven't been able to find it.


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