The Underground Change: New Manuscript

Discuss your favorite close-up tricks and methods.

Postby Jamie Badman » 02/12/02 05:52 AM

Firstly, if this post is inappropriate for this forum them I apologise - please remove it if this is the case. Assuming it's ok to post this, here goes...

====

I have finally completed writing a manuscript/booklet that I've been working on for some considerable time regarding a brand new, very versatile and practical card move I have invented. I have shown this move to a small number of select magicians and their response has been unanimously encouraging. They have all felt that it is something very special in a time where little is truly new any more.

=====

The booklet contains a detailed description of the move, along with ten additional effects which use the move plus two bonus effects which don't use the move but happen to have excellent synergy with 'Misdirection Monte' - the flagship effect of the booklet.

A little about 'Misdirection Monte' - as the title says, it's a Monte effect but unlike anything you've ever seen before. No gaffs but it appears impossible. I have used this effect many hundreds of times, have NEVER been caught and it never fails to draw breaths of astonishment. It truly is impossible! And even better, it's a real pleasure to perform. Honestly, I do this effect for myself sometimes - no kidding - just to see it again!

The full colour booklet includes a number of illustrative photographs and is beautifully designed and illustrated by Colin Miller - a leading London graphic designer - together we have formed a magic 'team' called 'The Underground Collective', under which title we intend to release some quality card work and mental effects over the next few years. 'The Underground Change' is the first item we have for sale.

=====

The booklet is selling for twenty UK Pounds, or thirty US Dollars, including postage. This may sound expensive for a booklet but I promise you, when you see the quality of the product, the work that's been put in to it and you realise the sheer versatility and power of the move then you'll appreciate that it represents extremely good value for money!

This product will only be available from myself, not from a dealer (except at Blackpool where I'm going to try to blag a corner of a dealer's stand to sell a few!).

If you would like to purchase a copy, either send payment to me at:

Jamie Badman
105 Kenilworth Avenue
Reading
Berkshire
RG30 3EH
ENGLAND

Or paypal me: jamiebadman@carrotmail.com

Thanks for your time!

Regards,

Jamie.
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Postby Tomas Blomberg » 02/12/02 06:51 AM

The first time I saw Misdirection Monte I was severely fooled. The second time I thought that I knew how it worked, which only proved that I was fooled again since it's physically impossible to use the move I thought he used. Can't wait to read how he _really_ did it.

/Tomas
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Postby Guest » 02/12/02 08:03 AM

Hey guys! The underground Change is Great! This manuscript should be in you library! Order your right now!
Regards
Jose Muniz :)
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Postby Brad Jeffers » 02/12/02 02:32 PM

Jamie, This sounds interesting. You are correct, that $30 is a lot to pay for a small booklet, which teaches just a single move, but if the move is only half as good as you make it sound, then $30 is a bargain! I would suggest that you submit a copy to Paul Cummings, for review in Genii. I have great respect for Paul's opinion (as does everyone I know) and if he gives it a thumbs up then you've got my money!
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Postby Guest » 02/12/02 03:37 PM

Jamie,
If you say it's that good, and Jose agrees, it MUST be good. Payment has been sent.

Now all we need is a really good recipe for "Mushy Peas" :D
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Postby Jamie Badman » 02/12/02 05:15 PM

Well I hope it's as good as I say; I'm confident enough with it to put my neck on the line over it, at least! I'll be sending a copy to Genii for review shortly. I don't know, however, how long a review takes to make the press; probably several months. Perhaps Paul will be so kind as to at least give some indication of his verdict here in the forum before that time ?!

Anyway, watch this space!

Cheers,

Jamie.
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Postby Jamie Badman » 02/19/02 08:27 AM

There's now a brief video available on:
http://www.underground-collective.co.uk

which demonstrates one effect, Misdirection Monte, which uses the Underground Change.

I hope you like it and that it gives you some idea of what the move can achieve.

Cheers,

Jamie.
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Postby Guest » 02/19/02 04:24 PM

Viewed the video clip. I'm impressed by the routine, and if a single sleight and nothing more is responsible for it, then I'm impressed by the working as well. I can see a way to mimic the effect with a familiar, accessible sleight plus a small additional move; I'm assuming that the actual working is cleaner and cleverer. I'll be interested to read additional assessments.
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Postby Jamie Badman » 02/20/02 02:12 AM

Hi,

Well a couple of things...

Firstly, because of the necessity of showing the cards clearly on the table, I was unable to film my hands as well. If you could see my hands in this routine you would observe that they need never come together at any time; no 'passes' or anything like that!

Misdirection Monte is the first effect that I derived after coming up with the Underground Change. The effect utilizes just the most basic aspect of the move. The manuscript describes another aspect which I think has great potential, far beyond the use employed in Misdirection Monte.

Here's a description of another effect in the manuscript...

You describe why it is you keep a plastic wrapper on a card case and illustrate in the following way...

Stick figures are drawn on the backs of two cards (one on each). These cards are turned face up on the table, and one placed on top of the other. They are separated and turned back over - one has no figure on and the other has two figures on it, in an embrace.

Now say you'll show what happens if the plastic cover's taken off the card case (do so)...

The cards are turned face up again, placed on one another some more, separated and one is turned over to show a single stick figure on it again... and the other is turned over to show the other stick figure... but this time, with a swollen belly!

And that's why you need card condoms!

If you were to read the method of this effect, you'd be exposed to the second (primary) usage of the Underground Change.

I think this effect is extremely commercial and of course, the story can be adapted in many ways.

Cheers,

Jamie.
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Postby Guest » 02/20/02 05:08 AM

Thanks for the clarification, Jamie. Knowing that your hands never come together while out of frame in the video confirms that something wackier than I was imagining is going on!
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Postby Jamie Badman » 02/20/02 05:54 AM

No probs Ralph. I guess you were thinking along the lines of a series of curry changes and passes ? I'd be interested in a practical solution that uses these moves since I tried to work this out a while back but found that it got extremely messy!

Cheers,

Jamie.
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Postby Guest » 02/20/02 06:41 AM

Specifically, three Curry changes with a slip of the top card to the bottom following the first change. It achieves your effect (as seen in the tight shot of the video) but unless perfectly executed (which I sure can't do) risks putting heat on the deck. Your routine is beautifully structured to take away as much of that heat as possible, but that bubble could burst quickly, especially with the inelegant handling I've come up with.
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Postby Andru Luvisi » 02/25/02 04:15 PM

Two questions. Am I correct in thinking:

...the underground change only happens once, as you turn the Ace of Clubs face down?

...a get ready is needed that requires counting, such as a thumb or pinkie count?

Thanks,
Andru
http://www.practicenotincluded.com/

[ February 25, 2002: Message edited by: Andru Luvisi ]
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Postby Jamie Badman » 02/25/02 04:26 PM

Hi Andru!

You're wrong! No more clues ;)

Cheers,

Jamie.
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Postby Andru Luvisi » 02/25/02 04:33 PM

In that case, I'm quite impressed.

I didn't post my idea on how to duplicate it since I didn't want to give your work away if I was correct. Seeing as I'm wrong, would you like me to post my thoughts?

Andru
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Postby Andi » 02/26/02 03:56 AM

I have just spent quite a lot of time with Jamie this weekend at the Blackpool convention and watched him perform a lot of magic using the move. All I can say is its a brilliant idea, and the effects that he explains in the booklet are excellent as well!

--Andi

[ February 26, 2002: Message edited by: Andi Gladwin ]
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Postby Guest » 02/26/02 11:56 AM

I got the booklet the other day (well done Jamie.) it's better than expected, and the move is first rate. Not I just have to put some time aside to work on it.

Thanks

Scotto
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Postby Guest » 02/28/02 11:18 AM

Dai vernon used a move that looks similar to this to Fool the life out of Jerry Sadowitz.
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Postby Jamie Badman » 02/28/02 04:31 PM

Hi Axman,

The Vernon move was for transferring a card from one packet to another in the process of turning them over. The Underground Change is a move which switches a single card in or out of play.

Cheers,

Jamie.
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Postby Guest » 03/04/02 07:07 AM

I realise the moves are not the same but that they have a similar "look/feel" about them.
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Postby Richard Kaufman » 03/04/02 06:22 PM

I think the move Vernon used has been published by Harry Lorayne. It is incredibly deceptive.
The Underground Change is not related.
I received the manuscript a few days ago and, for $30, it makes me think what a bargain books like Williamson's Wonders and Gary Kurtz:Unexplainable Acts are since they contain dozens of routines and sleights (not just one) for the same amount of money.
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Postby Bill Duncan » 03/04/02 08:54 PM

Is the Vernon move in question the one described on page 75 of Further Lost Inner Secrets (volume three)?
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Postby Jamie Badman » 03/05/02 02:31 AM

Hi Richard,

Perhaps Williamson's Wonders ($35 on your site) and Unexplainable Acts ($30) cost that to buy in the U.S. - I'll take your word on that - but in the UK they cost the equivalent of more like $45. For someone to order one from the US by air, from your own site this would cost another $25 - taking the price of the books to $55.

Even to purchase these in the US costs another $5 on top of the price...

My charge of $30 for the manuscript INCLUDES postage and packing. This amounts to just over $4. So from my perspective at least, it's not quite a fair comparison. You're really paying more like $26 for the product. The reason I left it as an inclusive price was that it wasn't worth the hassle of me working out various shipping rates, emailing back and forth etc to establish final price.

The way I look at it is, I know that a lot of the material in the manuscript is eminently usable. I remain convinced that people reading about the move, how it's done and what it can achieve, will actually use it. The accompanying effects are strong. I know this by experience; I have used them on the public and have received tremendous reactions. Particularly Misdirection Monte, The Card Condom and the Ace-Assins followup to Monte (which with a little bit of thought can be tied together patter-wise very nicely). My point being, that I think people will actually USE this stuff. I have quite a few books (500 at the last count) and many of them I don't use anything from. Some of these books you need to pay a lot of money for. If you learn Monte and use it often then surely $30 is a small price to pay in comparison to the years of use you'll get out of the effect ?

If people buy the manuscript and honestly feel they haven't received value for money, they can send it back to me and I'll credit back their money (minus my shipping costs and PayPal charges if applicable). I don't think I can make it any fairer than that ? And if you have it reviewed for Genii, you have my permission to repeat this statement there if you feel it's appropriate.

Cheers,

Jamie.
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Postby Jamie Badman » 03/05/02 02:36 AM

Hi Bill; don't have the Vernon books to hand (I'm at work) but, yeah, the move is described in one of them - sort of. The effect that Vernon showed Sadowitz was he had Sadowitz cut the deck in to four piles. Vernon then turned over each pile to show four indifferent cards on the face of each. He then turned each pile back face down and upon turning them face up again there was an ace on the face of each.

Sadowitz wasn't told how it was done but he reconstructed what he thinks might have happened based on the move described in the Vernon book. He published his thoughts in The Crimp and on a video that he made. To achieve the above effect, both the printed Vernon move is required plus a related variation in conjunction with one another.

It's a lovely effect - and when I saw it the first time I couldn't believe it! The only problem with it, is it's really only a one-on-one kind of effect because angles are extremely awkward.

Cheers,

Jamie.
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Postby Andi » 03/05/02 03:29 AM

Howdy...

If I remember correctly, the move is titled, "Given The Slip" and was in Further Lost Inner Secrets.

--Andi
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Postby Guest » 03/05/02 03:32 AM

I think the move is called "Given the slip" and is in the vernon chronicles somewhere.
I would like to point out that I made the comparison purely from a research point of view. I realise the moves are different but Jamies (excellent) move reminded me of the vernon's which I had forgotten all about.
The underground Change looks fantastic and looks like it has many, many variations.

[ March 05, 2002: Message edited by: Axman ]
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Postby Guest » 03/05/02 03:33 AM

must have posted at the same time! great minds think alike eh? Or fools seldom differ............
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Postby pduffie » 03/05/02 03:39 AM

The "Given the Slip" move was published by Stanley Collins in "Collin's Card Conceits" (1925), pages 28 & 29.

Best Wishes

Peter
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Postby Matthew Field » 03/05/02 07:44 AM

Jamie Badman tells me that I'm the only person who doesn't think this manuscript is worth $30, but I don't.

"The Underground Change" is an extension of Marlo's "Breakless Curry Change" with some good tricks and lots of minor variations, plus two unrelated tricks by others already published elsewhere and other padding in 29 pages including the cover.

Sorry, Jamie. I think $30 is too expensive for something like this.

Just one card magic lover's opinion.

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Postby Guest » 03/05/02 08:28 AM

Judging from the online video, the move is quite beautiful and deceptive when properly routined. Once everyone willing to pay $30 for it has ponied up and faded away, I hope market forces allow broader distribution to rabble such as myself.
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Postby Jamie Badman » 03/05/02 09:44 AM

Ok, a breakdown:

To print (materials + ink): $6 per copy.
To mail: $4 per copy.

Now there's two of us doing this - so we end up with $10 each.

In addition I'm sorting, binding, packaging, mailing etc - this has been very time consuming. At the end of the day, it's not really worth it for me at $10 per copy profit; I certainly won't do it again. I've spoken to dealers - who want a minimum of 40% to distribute it. Well that leaves me with virtually nothing left.

At the end of the day, the move IS beautiful and the applications are extensive. The effects in the manuscript are practical and interesting and Mathew has suggested that two of them are unrelated to the change but that is not true - they combine with Misdirection Monte synergistically so well that I thought them to be of interest. Certainly when I do Monte I often follow up with one of these two effects; in the manuscript I describe how to move from one effect to the other. I think that to be able to do this strengthens the second effect considerably. I don't think this is irrelevant; in fact it's something I'd like to see discussed more, personally.

I bought the new book from Kaufman & Co yesterday - The Lost Notebooks of Hilliard. This book cost me $110 from my local dealer. This is a tremendous amount of money to spend on a book. Why is it so expensive ? Apparently because it cost a lot to construct, both in terms of effort and time. Well my manuscript took a lot of effort to put together too - I could have just churned out a bunch of stapled, photocopied notes and charged $15-$20 a copy, made a profit and not needed to have worked so hard but instead I chose to put together something which I believe is attractive and of high quality. The move itself deserves that much at least; I'm damn proud of it and I wanted to showcase it.

If any of you buy the manuscript and upon receiving it and reading about it, if you don't like it, send it back. I'll refund you your money minus my shipping costs and Paypal losses. I'm THAT confident that you'll like it, despite Mathew's comments. I have had feedback from a number of people who have purchased it and Mathew's comments were the first negative ones. I'd hate his post on here to misrepresent the whole issue. The only other negative comment, of course, was from Richard on here a few posts back, about the price. As I pointed out, his figures weren't quite accurate as he'd neglected to point out the $25 shipping charge he charges to send his books to the UK.

Anyway, I'm tiring of this now. I'll say no more except that if you buy something for $30 and within it you find something you use for the rest of your life then wasn't it worth it ?! How many of your books can you say that for ?

Jamie.
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Postby Guest » 03/05/02 09:49 AM

I'd like to agree and say that $30 seems more than a fair price for a move that is of use to you.
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Postby Guest » 03/05/02 10:04 AM

Jamie --
I agree we all should give the price issue a rest. You've created something beautiful and, according to at least some in the know, substantially new. No small accomplishment. Good luck with it and with negotiating the weird boundaries of art and commerce.
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Postby Jamie Badman » 03/05/02 10:08 AM

Thanks guys.

Ralph; believe me - in future I'll stick to art - commerce ain't worth the hassle!

Jamie.
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Postby Richard Kaufman » 03/05/02 10:11 AM

Jamie,
We're all learning new ways of communicating critiques of products in a very public way because of online discussions like the one that's now going on here in this thread on The Genii Forum. Never before in history have so many people been able to offer diverse opinions instantaneously!
When one publishes anything, or produces a trick or videotape for sale, you throw yourself open for criticism--that is part of the reality of being a producer of merchandise.
It used to be that months would pass before reviews would appear in magazines and you might get some letters--that was your only source of public feedback.
Now, things are very different. People are yapping about stuff online IMMEDIATELY!!!
Don't take it personally. The game is played differently than it used to be.
We're all learning how to respond.
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Postby Matthew Field » 03/05/02 10:17 AM

Originally posted by Jamie Badman:
Anyway, I'm tiring of this now. I'll say no more except that if you buy something for $30 and within it you find something you use for the rest of your life then wasn't it worth it ?! How many of your books can you say that for ? Jamie.


Sorry you're tiring of this, Jamie, but I'm not finished. If you look at books like Steve Draun's "Screts Draun from Underground" for $30, Andrew Wimhurst's "Down Under Deals" for $25, or Paul Cummins' "From A Shuffled Deck In Use" for $25 or any of R. Paul Wilson's booklets (to give just a few examples) I think you'll see what I mean about value versus cost. Each of these books contain stunningly original material of great variety, as well as never-before published tricks.

The economy of magic publishing is tough, as you've explained, and everyone deserves some return for hard work. Lee Aaher publishes booklets with new material and photo illustrations for $15. If that's what you had charged for your manuscript, I'd be silent.

I paid $60 for Derren Brown's "Absolute Magic" book and another $60 for his 2 1/2 hour card video ("Devil's Playthings") and I'm glad I did. It's not the price, it's the value compared with other material in the marketplace.

Your move is described in 2 pages with another 4 or so for "Misdirection Monte." Much (not all) of the rest is, to my eyes, padding. $30 for 6-10 pages is too much to charge.

But, as you say, it's a matter of opinion. Unfortunately, I will look at any future publications from your company with a "wait and see" attitude.

Maybe my expectations were overly high, but them again, I consider myself an optimist. I hope you continue to create and share, Jamie, and that's my ultimate wish. The rest is offered as cnstructive criticism.

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Postby Jamie Badman » 03/05/02 10:52 AM

Ok, so when I said I was going to say nothing more, you know I didn't mean it didn't you ?!


Richard:

Yeah, I realise how instant feedback is now; scary! The hardest thing is that it's easy to react wrongly because all you see are words on a screen. Face to face discussions allow for so much more complex interactions and accurate interpretations. I think I reacted wrongly on TSD a moment ago; I'll not remove the post because I think it's interesting and it'll remain a lesson to me. Here, I hope I'm doing ok but not seeing any faces, who knows ?!


Matthew:

Steve Draun's book is $35 ? Not in the UK it isn't. It's 35 pounds. That's nearer $50. I have it and I use no material from it at all, except for the Midnight Shift. So I paid $50 for the Midnight Shift. You know what ? I'm happy with that! I've learnt one thing from it that I'll use for the rest of my life and that's worth $50 of my money. If you learn the Underground Change, I think you'll use that for the rest of your life too - I know I will. That's worth $30 straight off, in my opinion.

My bookshelf is full of books I paid a lot of money for and from which I use absolutely NOTHING. They represent a poor investment.

I don't think the Underground Change is something that will gather dust; at least not until it's learnt.


All:

Here's a thought... for those of you out there who are still reading this... if I were to offer the manuscript in Adobe PDF format and reduce the price to, say $15 a copy, would you buy it ?

Or would it get bought by just a few people and then emailed around so that everyone gets it ?

If I thought I could trust the former then I'd do that; it would reduce so much of the effort and cost. So... what do you say ?!

Cheers,

Jamie.
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Postby Guest » 03/07/02 07:26 PM

I mention this only because I think it's interesting how one idea flows into another. Reading about the routine Vernon did for Jerry Sadowitz reminded me of this. Martin Nash included my routine (Incognito Joe) in his book ANY SECOND NOW in 1977. I also have a similar routine where the mixed up deck was cut into 4 packets. A King shown on each and set aside – then, the deck shown all one way – then, the Kings shown to be the 4 Aces. It can also be done without the “Triumph” shuffle. If anyone has seen it in the Nash book and would like to see the “4 packet” version, I'll be happy to send it along. But don't expect it to be written like Stephen Minch did in the book!
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Postby Guest » 03/12/02 05:22 PM

the Underground Change is the same move that Allan Ackerman put in his book, Here's my Card. And that book was only $4.00. The way Badman uses it is exactly the same way Bill Kalush has been using the Ackerman move for about 20 years.
Also, the Misdirection Monte routine is not new. It can be found in one of Bill Simon's books.
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Postby Andru Luvisi » 03/12/02 07:13 PM

I just skimmed through "Here's My Card" a few times and it didn't jump out at me. Could I trouble you for the name of the section it is in or the page number?

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