Arising cards..

Discuss your favorite close-up tricks and methods.

Postby smokemist » 01/17/06 03:44 AM

by Ariston? Anyone have experience with this effect? From the description it sounds nice..any reviews?
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Postby Matthew Field » 01/17/06 03:53 AM

Mr Kaufman brought me back one of these from FISM some years ago.

The effect is a named card rises from a deck. Nothing is normal, not the box or the cards, although they resemble (perhaps a bit too closely for copyright purposes) a Bicycle Rider pack.

I have performed the trick a half dozen times -- once for Jamy Swiss and once for the upstate New York Assembly where I lectured on Rising Card methods.

It is difficult to perform, needs quite a bit of practice to get working smoothly. You can't hand the card out, can't perform it if there is anyone standing behind you (and even people to your sides is not ideal).

It is a clever method. I stick with a Devano deck.

This is one of a number of tricks that were hot as a branding iron and quickly faded from view. Remember the dingus which could duplicate a signature so you could destroy a signed card and show it had returned complete with spec's signature?

That's in the same drawer.

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Postby John LeBlanc » 01/17/06 07:28 AM

Originally posted by Matthew Field:

It is a clever method. I stick with a Devano deck.
It is a clever method for an "any card named" card rise -- but that seems to me to be a solution in search of a problem. And, all things considered (including my alternatives,) it's a hell of a fussy solution.

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Postby Bill Palmer » 01/27/06 03:28 PM

Only slightly less complicated than Dr. Hooker's method, but portable.
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Postby Jonathan Townsend » 01/27/06 03:56 PM

Originally posted by Bill Palmer:
Only slightly less complicated than Dr. Hooker's method, but portable.
Where is the Dr Hooker's method in print?

and how expensive is that portable method?
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Postby Richard Kaufman » 01/27/06 06:03 PM

Dr. Hooker's many solutions remain a deep dark secret.
The Ariston card rise was taken off the market because of copyright infringement in its use of counterfeit Bicycle backs (so I've heard). Or, it may simply have been too difficult to make.
Angelo Carbone has a similar method which will allow any named card to rise and it has many of the same restrictions.
If the Neyhart Houlette actually worked, it would be superior to any other in-the-hands named card rise--but it doesn't work, and never did work 100% of the time.
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Postby Carlo Morpurgo » 01/27/06 07:10 PM

Originally posted by Richard Kaufman:
Dr. Hooker's many solutions remain a deep dark secret.
I always wondered if this is really the case
or if instead many magicians actually have a pretty good guess (like Bill Palmer?) but still
prefer to be in awe and respect such a sacred ritual, only performed once in a lifetime (so that basically almost no one knows really what it's all about).

What could Hooker have possibly conceived so striking at that time that someone our times can't even dream of thinking?

I am not fishing for info, just wondering how much "aura", mythology, and god-like status is built around this effect...as opposed to a method that is really quite striking and deserves to be kept secret.

Put it differently: if Hooker's card rise were performed worldwide and daily on television, would it still retain its magnificent godlike status? would magicians around the world be able to figure out the method after the first show ? If it's all about the secret then I guess
it would withstand the pressure, if it's about
the once-in-a-lifetime-ritual-for-select-people...then I guess not...

(just asking...)

Carlo



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Postby Richard Kaufman » 01/27/06 07:22 PM

There are only a handful of people who know some of Hooker's methods. Don't forget that Dr. Hooker used many different methods in his show in order to confuse the audience as to the exact procedure.
Most of the methodology is still a secret.
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Postby David Alexander » 01/27/06 08:55 PM

Joe Berg told me about the Neyhart Houlette he had, complaining that while the idea might have been good, the little tabs on the cards just weren't reliable and didn't hold up in actual use. Like a lot of clever ideas that just don't quite work out, the Neyhart Houlette was fussy and as Richard observed, didn't work all the time.
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Postby Jonathan Townsend » 01/27/06 09:03 PM

Originally posted by Carlo Morpurgo:
... if Hooker's card rise were performed worldwide and daily on television, would it still retain its magnificent godlike status?...
Two interesting questions there.

The first is a magicians only thing that's almost pointless to even address.

The second question, about the fundamental practicality and robustness of Dr. Hooker's methods for the classic rising cards effect is something you may have to address directly to the guy who got some of those methods working for a performance. The guy is into making things work so I'd go with his opinion.
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Postby Jonathan Townsend » 01/27/06 09:10 PM

Originally posted by John LeBlanc:
Originally posted by Matthew Field:
[b]
It is a clever method. I stick with a Devano deck.
It is a clever method for an "any card named" card rise -- but that seems to me to be a solution in search of a problem. ...[/b]
I can think of a few appropriate uses for something like this effect, though to be fair, not from a fifty two card pack of cards. This interest comes from the basic requirement of a routine that reads as fun but the idea of having an IT tangle on the table is less than appealing.
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Postby Carlo Morpurgo » 01/27/06 09:49 PM

Originally posted by Jonathan Townsend:
Originally posted by Carlo Morpurgo:
[b] ... if Hooker's card rise were performed worldwide and daily on television, would it still retain its magnificent godlike status?...
Two interesting questions there.

The first is a magicians only thing that's almost pointless to even address.

The second question, about the fundamental practicality and robustness of Dr. Hooker's methods for the classic rising cards effect is something you may have to address directly to the guy who got some of those methods working for a performance. The guy is into making things work so I'd go with his opinion. [/b]
I am not sure which two questions you are referring to...I am not really enquiring about the practicality and robustness of the methods.
(e.g. you can think of the same perfect show
widely available on dvd). I am wondering whether the effect's fame and mistique are really due to the ingenious methods, or rather mostly due to rumors and the fact that only few people really witnessed it. In a sense what seems to be deep and dark is not the secret itself, but the fact that the effect has been shown only a few times to a few people, as opposed to most other effects.

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Postby Jim Riser » 01/27/06 10:30 PM

Seeing the Neyhart Houlette mentioned is interesting. I have done work on three of the units - all broken solder joints. This has allowed me to assess the workability of the units.

The Neyhart Houlette reads as a perfect solution; but in practicality, it just does not work correctly. The indexing system works beautifully. The problem is in the "drive train". Neyhart utilized a thin silk thread for the power belt. This ran in sharp "V" grove pulleys within the mechanism. If the silk thread belt had a knot in it to join the ends, this knot would bind in a brass pulley rendering the unit useless. Your thumb could crank away all day with no cards rising. This thin silk thread had a way of constantly either slipping in the "V" groove pulleys rather than grabbing the pulleys to do its power transmission task or binding. I do feel that with some redesign work, the Neyhart system could be made workable. The unit came with an ungimmicked matching houlette. Both houlettes were molded from possibly bakelite. Making the molds to reproduce these houlettes would be rather expensive. I do not think enough units could ever be sold to pay for expenses. It is a really cool toy to play with though.

It would be interesting to locate a broken unit and to rebuild it to eliminate the drive problems. Perhaps I'll run across one some day. Making the special card cutter for indexing the cards woould not be terribly difficult. When handled carefully, the decks are pretty durable - when you consider all of the tiny tabs involved.
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Postby Geno Munari » 02/12/06 07:40 PM

Ariston's rising cards are very interesting, but not practical. Angelo Carbone's Notion in Motion are ideal.
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Postby Guest » 02/12/06 10:07 PM

I have seen Micheal Webber do the following:

He handed out a deck of 52 different cards (I think they were Jerrys Nuggets) and let two different people shuffle them.

He never looked at the faces. He had someone name any card in the deck. He held the deck (no box, no thumbtips, coffee stirrers or pins) in his bare hand and made the named card rise from the center of the deck. He handed the deck to the guy who named the card. There were no threads, no loops, just a deck of cards and his right hand.

He did this three times, once with each of us, because each of us suspected the others of being in on it. None of us were. We were all fooled.

He said he might sell it some day, but even though it was simple, it was not "easy"

Micheal? Ready to sell?
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Postby Richard Kaufman » 02/12/06 10:38 PM

The trick you've described Michael Weber doing is John Cornelius's, but it has never been published. It's pretty easy to dope it out, I think: memorized stack and the Eric Mason card rise.
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Postby Matthew Field » 02/13/06 04:10 AM

And Mr Kaufman should know.

As part of that Rising Card lecture for the upstate New York (Capital District) SAM Assembly lecture I gave I performed the Kaufman/Krenzel 'On the Up and Up' and fooled the hell out of everyone.

That and the Gary Plants version are fantastic.

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Postby Guest » 02/14/06 12:35 AM

Richard and Matthew,

Good guess, but not good enough. We SHUFFLED the deck. I am certain I did not do a false shuffle and pretty sure the other two guys didn't either.

There also was no deck switch.

So the Eric Mason method is good enough to get to the finish line, but how do you get the first half of the way with a shuffled deck when you never look at the faces or backs?
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Postby Jonathan Townsend » 02/14/06 04:36 AM

Originally posted by mathtrix:
Richard and Matthew,

Good guess, but not good enough. We SHUFFLED the deck. I am certain I did not do a false shuffle and pretty sure the other two guys didn't either.

There also was no deck switch.

So the Eric Mason method is good enough to get to the finish line, but how do you get the first half of the way with a shuffled deck when you never look at the faces or backs?
Looks like what we see all the time on the Magic Cafe.

Though there it's usually about Cyril or something else on TV.

Thanks for the reminder that it is not safe to show anything nice.
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Postby Richard Kaufman » 02/14/06 09:25 AM

It's possible your recollection is false, or else you are just Michael Weber. :)
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Postby Dave Egleston » 02/14/06 10:44 AM

Originally posted by Carlo Morpurgo:
Put it differently: if Hooker's card rise were performed worldwide and daily on television, would it still retain its magnificent godlike status?"

Wasn't Marilyn Monroe a divorcee'?
Isn't there graffiti on the Grand Canyon walls?
Can you ever duplicate the your feelings of wonder the first time you saw the lovely Nani Darnell disappear from under the suspended satin sheet?

"would magicians around the world be able to figure out the method after the first show ? If it's all about the secret then I guess
it would withstand the pressure, if it's about
the once-in-a-lifetime-ritual-for-select-people...then I guess not...

(just asking...)"

Carlo

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Self answered question.

One show is magic - Two shows would be a lesson.

It's OK for some mystery even in a magician's life.

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Postby Fred Zimmerman » 02/14/06 02:35 PM

Re: Weber card rise.

Edge marks and serious chops?

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Postby Pete Biro » 02/14/06 04:42 PM

Blind Luck? :eek:
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Postby Bill Duncan » 02/14/06 06:26 PM

Originally posted by mathtrix:
...the Eric Mason method is good enough to get to the finish line, but how do you get the first half of the way with a shuffled deck when you never look at the faces or backs?
Has no one considered a pocket index and a palm addition to the shuffled deck?

Seems like a fairly obvious, and simple solution to me. But I don't know the Eric Mason card rise so perhaps I'm missing something?
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Postby Pete McCabe » 02/14/06 08:08 PM

Originally posted by Bill Duncan:
Has no one considered a pocket index and a palm addition to the shuffled deck?

Seems like a fairly obvious, and simple solution to me. But I don't know the Eric Mason card rise so perhaps I'm missing something?
Regardless of whether this is Michael's method, it has a lot to recommend it. The card can be named while the spectator is shuffling the deck, so you'd have all day to get the duplicate out of the index. And the duplicate card could be gaffed to make the rise even more magical.
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Postby John Carney » 02/14/06 08:12 PM

The rising cards......I think its always been my favorite trick. But I have an ideal in my head, and none of the routines I have worked on have lived up to that ideal......so its still not a regular part of my show. I continue to work on it all the time. I haven't given up.

Faucett Ross used to speak in mythological terms of the Hooker card rise. I don't think he ever saw it in person. He probably just read the description in Greater Magic. I used to read that description over and over. It was almost as mysterious as having seen it. It just didn't seem possible. Hooker was a chemist....so I dreamed.......what kind of chemistry could make this possible?

One of the highlights of my magical life has been to witness the Hooker Card Rise at the LA Conference on Magic History. I kind of expect to be disappointed. I was pleasantly surprised! It looked fantastic.....just like the description. It was really a magical effect. One small problem........an entire room had to be built in which to do the trick. It is not practical for everyday purposes.

As a magician, I am intrigued by the any card called for aspect, but I think that for laymen, this is the least impressive part of the trick. The trick is that inanimate objects come to life, rise up and down in the pack and float in the air. The fact that it is a specific card is irrelevant. However......picking a card does give it some sort of presentation point, but otherwise it could be any card if well done.

The reason you don't see rising card routines done by magicians much these days is because it is ground where even the angels fear to tread. A mechanical pack is one thing, but to truly give the impression of the cards coming to life and floating.......that is another thing entirely. It is a very tall order and takes great care to execute well. If you haven't done your work, it is a catastrophe. It does takes some delicacy and a bit of skill, but the real work is in the management.

I'm curious......has anyone seen a really impressive version of the rising cards.....with all the bells and whistles.....that didn't just look like a mechanical trick? Any performers or versions come to mind?

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Postby Richard Kaufman » 02/14/06 08:52 PM

Carney, you have a great perspective on things. Thanks.
To answer your question, nothing, and I mean NOTHING, has seemed as magical as the recreation of the Hooker Rising Card at the History Conference. We witnessed magic (as we have so many times at the Conference).
But, then again, none of us saw Thurston make cards float across the stage--perhaps that would have looked astonishing.
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Postby Steve Bryant » 02/14/06 09:16 PM

I agree with John Carney: the rising cards is definitely my holy grail. I love playing with Gary Plants' version, but so far haven't had the courage to foist it on laymen. Is anyone having real world success with it? My most successful version to date was the "Millie Riggs" haunted house version that Eugene Burger described in Spirit Theater, but that, like the Hooker, essentially required a trick room. Lovely impact, however.
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Postby Pete Biro » 02/14/06 11:24 PM

I used to do the Nemo and the Martin mechanical deck for platform work, and the Devano, the one with the catgut sleeve pull (with borrowed deck), Ted Biet's, and an electrically operated deck I created (I gave one to Kaps who loved it) and have not done, but have a one-off version given to me by Fred Robinson.

I am a rising card freak... :D

I also worked out a comedy variation where a card rose thru your finger based on a Clayton Rawson idea.

I have one of a few copies with over 500 various rising card effects in an book by Klingsor.

BUT... I COULDN'T GET BACK ACROSS THE BORDER FROM A JOB IN MEXICO IN TIME TO SEE THE HOOKER AT THE CONFERANECE.

I have tried to talk John Gaughan into doing it again somewhere but he broke it all down and it is stored in bits and pieces... :(
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Postby Pete McCabe » 02/14/06 11:59 PM

My favorite magic trick of all time (possibly apochryphal) was Orson Welles at a garden party, who had a card chosen and replaced, then had it rise from the deck and float away into the sky, using a weather balloon. I realize that the spectators would only be fooled for a short time, but what a time that would be! The moment when the card left the deck and began to rise in the air would be unforgettable.

John's point about the selected cards is interesting. I could see taking a shuffled deck and producing the aces, one at a time, with the last one rising from the deck. This seems like a pretty obvious idea, now that I think of it, but I don't recall ever seeing anyone do it.
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Postby Ryan Matney » 02/15/06 12:48 AM

My own opinion that I came to awhile back is that the best versions of rising card (and haunted deck for that matter) all use thread. None of the other methods match IT work for me.

However, I don't particularly like working with thread so I don't currently perform a version of the rising cards. I have to say though, it is the one iconic magic trick that I most wanted to be able to do while dreaming of the miracles I would one day learn and thumbing through the magic catalog and watching magicians on TV.

I think the Vernon routine is the best way to do it. Three cards selected, 2 rise from the deck and the last one rises out of the deck and through the air, up to your waiting hand.
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Postby Guest » 02/15/06 08:11 AM

I haven't seen this trick performed a lot with the exception of Don Alan with the Devano deck but I think the most impressive that I've witnessed was Henry Evans a few years ago at FFFF.
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Postby John LeBlanc » 02/15/06 08:53 AM

Originally posted by Ryan Matney:
However, I don't particularly like working with thread so I don't currently perform a version of the rising cards.
It's comforting to know I'm not the only one around here with a love affair with the rising cards.

Have you studied Jeff McBride's "Kundalini Rising" routine? That might change your mind a bit about thread.

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Postby Bill Duncan » 02/15/06 10:46 AM

Pete,
We can make the Welles method practical and a complete fooler, but it will take a crew.

Perform the effect in an arbor under a bough of trees (or overhead grape vines maybe?). There needs to be enough space for the card to pass through the trees and enough Kevlar thread to provide some real distance.

Cris Angel could probably get is done.


I even have a presentational concept
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Postby John Carney » 02/15/06 10:52 AM

I think Ryan is correct, the Vernon routine is the best way to do it. Three cards selected, 2 rise from the deck and the last one rises out of the deck and through the air, up to your waiting hand. I did this routine (as well as his description of Larry Grey's with the card through the handkerchief) for years. It is very practical.

I want to use regular playing cards.....Jumbo cards are not real things to laymen....they are props. Several times during the process, I would like the cards to be shuffled and handled by the audience, implying that they are ordinary.

What is more difficult is a multi-phase routine:

A couple cards rise traditionally.
Another rises reversed and visibly rights itself
Another rises up, then sinks down, as if shy....then suddenly jumps out of the pack
A card sealed in a pay envelope rises and opens, the chosen card rising from it (ala' Nemo)
A card crawls out and takes a bow (Al Baker)
All the cards fly out of the glass, ala' DeKolta

I feel like this is a complete routine.......a beginning, middle and end. With some cute diversions along the way. Most routines are over in a couple minutes. The conditions don't change and the animations don't get more progressively more impressive as the routine goes on....they just repeat.

I had a version of the above in my Book of Secrets.......at least, it is close. My latest version more closely resembles the above, but still has a few snags. The methods tend to conflict with one another. Also, some types of thread are better for different phases. For rising, you want invisible. For DeKolta it must be strong. A threaded DeKolta pack has tell-tale dark threads running over the top of the pack. If you use a mechanical card shooter, then it has to be in a hat or such......and on, and on........its tough to live the dream.

I have done the four aces rising out of the pack and think this is a good compromise.

These days, I have one card selected, then call for various cards (my call) to rise and cavort....it appears as though I could call any card. Somewhere in the middle, I ask the spectator what card he selected and this rises. Then I continue with the routine.

When I finally feel comfortable, I feel like this will be a signature piece for me. For now, it is a good goal and exercise.

Has anyone seen an old timer do it the old fashioned way and make a great impression?
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Postby Pete Biro » 02/15/06 11:22 AM

Yes. AL FLOSSO... The Coney Island Faker used a poker-size Martin mechanical deck. I loved his bit with the last card...he would hand the goblet (which I now possess) to the spectator and with the delay built in to the deck he had time to do some talk... when the card didn't rise as he commanded he told the spectator "SQUEEZE THE GLASS... SQUEEZE THE GLASS..."

Then, when the last card, a King, began to rise he would say... "Here comes the king... here comes the king..."

Only as Flosso could do.

He also nailed me badly with a bottom deal.

He also was FIRST with the Purse Frame. He started with a hole in a leather purse that gradually wore bigger and bigger over the years I(Producing the wand) until all he had left was the frame.
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Postby Pete Biro » 02/15/06 11:48 AM

I used to use the Cardini watch reel to rise a card out of the deck. Wish I had not sold it now. Also rigged a Thornton windlass in a holder with a deck threaded ala Charlie Miller. That way it was self-contained with the reel inside my jacket to do the Dekolt card fountain in hand with a glass.
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Postby Jonathan Townsend » 02/15/06 12:15 PM

John, that sounds like an excellent act the likes of which has not been seen in MANY years. It would be great to have a practical "Dr. Hooker" type act. The last part, the DeKolta thing might need something extra to spin the cards away, or perhaps just a deck switch (blizzard) for the fully prepared pack?

Have folks checked out Bruno Copin's work animating cards? His animations, the Finn Jon Esoteric setup and the Nemo card rise principle might all work together nicely. IE one envelope anchored and the rest on a nice Pen type ITR.

The old flip around gaff was a beauty. Ken Krenzel in his On the Up and Up Had an idea for duplicating the effect that is non-gaffed, but also not as bizarre/visual. Perhaps borrowing another leaf from Copin's book, the covered (fan or handkerchief) change would work? Ah what the heck.. may as well add the horizontal card rise (card appear at face of the deck) and moving pip cards to the mix.

Best of luck with your project.
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Postby Pete McCabe » 02/15/06 03:12 PM

Bill,

I was actually trying to get the Welles method working for a friend's wedding. It turns out that three plain old latex balloons filled with helium will rise two playing cards taped together and 100 yards of carpet thread (the strongest I know of). The thread was taped to a card which had double-stick tape on it, which was on the bottom. I would just pull the two of hearts from the deck and have it signed, then cut it back into the deck, so the taped card sticks to the selection. A fellow magician would then release the balloons (which blended in with the decorations at the house), and the card would float away.

Then my friend changed his plans and got married indoors at the Bronx Botanical garden. But the idea could definitely work.
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Postby John Carney » 02/15/06 06:01 PM

The last part, the DeKolta thing might need something extra to spin the cards away, or perhaps just a deck switch (blizzard) for the fully prepared pack?

Have folks checked out Bruno Copin's work animating cards?

horizontal card rise (card appear at face of the deck) and moving pip cards to the mix.
Jonathan,
handling that threaded pack is like wrestling a greased pig. It doesn't want to stay squared. Deck switches are tricky. I've done the deck switch described in my book, but was trying to eliminate the deck clip..... then there's the tell tell threads across the top of the white edge of the deck.

Using the Germain changing card in glass is definitely something I would like to add, as well as the moving pip card.......but outside of a parlor setting these might not show up well.

I have not heard of Bruno Copin's work. Any idea where I might find a copy?

thanks for the suggestions.

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