Best decks for doing a perfect faro?

Discuss your favorite close-up tricks and methods.

Postby Guest » 11/24/05 04:31 PM

As stated in the subject line, what are the best card decks for doing a perfect faro shuffle?
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Postby Guest » 11/24/05 05:47 PM

For me a new one !( And 1000 hours practice )

Mike
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Postby Guest » 11/24/05 06:34 PM

Bicycles usually work well, but Tally Ho's work exceptionally well for me. And of course it helps if the deck is new or in good condition.
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Postby rage » 11/24/05 06:36 PM

the answer to your question is this: with enough practice, you can do the faro with any deck.

the exception is with really old decks.

but really, with enough practice, the faro shuffle becomes one of the easiest things you will ever do once it has been mastered.

so just keep practicing and the rest will be easy, no matter what deck you use.
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Postby Michael Kamen » 11/24/05 07:37 PM

For several years recently, Bikes were being churned out with poorly hewn edges -- possibly in an attempt to save a few bucks they were not changing the cutting blade often enough -- anyway once shuffled you had a deck of randomly-uneven lengthed cards. I found them very hard to faro consistently. USPC seems to have gotten over this problem. After wearing in the initially rough edges, Bikes faro well for me. Decks used for a lot of springing, bending, or crimping I find harder to faro.
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Postby Bill Palmer » 11/25/05 08:37 AM

When I was a kid working at Howard's Fun Shop, Harry Riser came in one afternoon and saw me laboring away at faro shuffles. He gave me a deck of Tally-Ho fan backs. He admonished me never to riffle shuffle these cards, and to save them only for faros. I did exactly that. I still have those cards. The edges are almost as brown as a cup of coffee from constant handling, but they are still perfectly suffleable.

This said, with constant practice you get to where you can faro almost any deck. Some of the plastic cards are a bit difficult and some of the reproduction old west cards are difficult to work with, as well.

If you have Steven Youell's Scruffy, you may find this of help. Three decks I have had excellent results with are Tally-Ho's, Texan '45's, and 500's. You should be able to do this with Bees as well.

I regularly faro shuffle new Bicycle decks, so they really aren't all that problematic, once you have the knack for it. But it is a knack.
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Postby Bob Farmer » 11/25/05 08:42 AM

For new decks of any brand, get a bar of really cheap soap, like Colgate Palmolive's Cashmere Bouquet, and rub it around the edges of the deck (not each card, the deck). Riffle shuffle a few times and repeat. Remove the excess soap with a paper towel. This fills in all of the irregularties and the cards will Faro themselves.

The other much more advanced system is the one sold by Steve Youell as "Scruffy." It really is a near miraculous deck reviver.
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Postby Bill Mullins » 11/25/05 02:24 PM

For me, Bee style decks work better than Bicycle Rider Backs.
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Postby Guest » 11/25/05 07:51 PM

Bob, I tried your idea with the soap but all I

had was some Ivory Soap. Not only did the cards

Faro better , They Floated........Mike
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Postby Guest » 11/25/05 10:13 PM

Originally posted by Mike Walsh II:
Bob, I tried your idea with the soap but all I

had was some Ivory Soap. Not only did the cards

Faro better , They Floated........Mike
I tried this myself, but my faros were only 99 44/100 percent perfect.
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Postby John Wilson » 11/26/05 01:40 AM

Svengali decks work best....HA. Just new decks really, I don't think it matters what brand or whether you've rubbed soap on the edges. New decks or at least decks without edge damage.
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Postby John Carey » 11/26/05 02:50 AM

emus from taiwan or waddington no 1s :D
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Postby Bill Duncan » 11/26/05 01:16 PM

I have found that every pack of Studs that I have ever purchased faro'ed very well right out of the box.

However, I have read recently that the new stock is thicker and less flexible and this may impact that ability. Studs are so cheap, however that it's worth picking up a pack at Walgreens to find out.

I will be as soon as the local store gets in some new stock.
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Postby Pepka » 11/26/05 01:42 PM

Just to agree with Bill, I too believe that Stud brand cards almost faro themselves. The one bad point is that due to their thinness, they also warp much much easier. I usually use bikes or tally's.
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Postby Guest » 11/26/05 04:06 PM

How many seconds can anybody do 8 faros? Just interested.
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Postby Pete Biro » 11/26/05 11:15 PM

I forget the number but the word was either Harry Riser or Persi Diaconis was the fastest. With accuracy, of course.
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Postby John Wilson » 11/27/05 01:12 AM

On a good day I can run through 8 perfect faros in about two minutes. On a really bad day it could take much longer....I take it back, on a good day I am most certainly NOT timing myself performing faro shuffles. :)
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Postby Guest » 11/27/05 06:47 AM

It ain't the deck, it's the technique. I've been lucky enough to sit with Darwin Ortiz and see him take a brand new deck out of the box; then, without any flexing of the deck to work it, go straight into a perfect faro.

Ricky Jay in a radio interview said he used to practice with a friend (maybe Persi Diaconis?) doing 8 perfect shuffles (he didn't say faro in the interview) in less than a minute. I need a week to do that, with another week to recover from the shock of getting 8 in a row.
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Postby rage » 11/27/05 10:51 AM

i could do 8 in less than a minute. really guys, its just practice. ;)
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Postby Pete Biro » 11/27/05 12:44 PM

... and the desire.

Just like a young Japanese magician (a student of Ogawa's) at Dean's last couple of weeks doing 80 or 90 coin rolls non-stop.

You really have to WANT to do that kind of stuff.
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Postby Countelmsley » 11/27/05 01:40 PM

I agree with Rage1... Just practice... I can do 8 faros in 50 secs on a good day with a "perfect" deck. It's just one of those things. A knack needs to be acquired. Do it over and over again and it' ll come to you. In my experience, I' d say that once you get those 5 or 6 first cards interlaced, the rest will follow. It' not a question of strength, it' s a question of precision and "looseness".

As for the perfect deck, I'd have to go with good ol' Bicycles.

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Postby Countelmsley » 11/27/05 01:48 PM

Also check out Larry Jennings' s technique in "Classic Magic of Larry Jennings". The left little finger is used as a lever; great advice if there ever was one...
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Postby Guest » 11/27/05 07:47 PM

Originally posted by Seb Talbot:
Also check out Larry Jennings' s technique in "Classic Magic of Larry Jennings". The left little finger is used as a lever; great advice if there ever was one...
Sounds like Marlo to me. The idea of using the left little finger as a "table" for the deck pre-dates Larry's work by some years, if I have my facts straight - J.R.?

Best, PSC
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Postby Jeff Haas » 11/28/05 01:44 AM

I just timed myself...it's about five seconds a faro, starting from having the deck gripped in the left hand, and not rushing the split or the weave.

If you need help on the technique, check out Mike Close's ebook on it. Probably the best place to get the work.
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Postby Guest » 11/28/05 02:48 AM

The Alex Emsley books contain an intersting tip on preparing the cards for faro shuffling.
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Postby Guest » 11/28/05 03:16 AM

I'm a bit amazed about the original question re what the *best* deck is to do a Faro..

AFAIK - I'm not the greatest faro-shuffler in the world, but I manage and can do a decent faro when I want to, after all I've done so for 40 years or so- it's not the deck that does the faro!

I am well aware off, there are certain 'strange' decks that make it almost impossible to succed, but the usually used 'brands' in the States, be it Bicycles, Tally Hoos, Bee's whatever, will always work.
There might -and is- a difference in the 'shape' these cards might be, depending on how used or misused they are, but basically I don't think one in general can say, this or that BRAND is better then the other..it also depends on how the deck is worked in, even if and when a brand new deck right out of the sealed box can be used.

Actually, as it might be known to most cardworkers, the quality of especially the Bicycles have changed enourmously throughout the years.
I've GOOD and old decks, that, when measuring the thickness of them with a high precision caliber in mm's over 52 cards, are 2mm THINNER, (approx. .078 inches) then the latest produced ones..

Using an old cardcase that is over 30 years old, one can't even insert a new deck that is those 2 mm thicker into a such cardcase, so the USPCC is well aware of that fact, they had to alter even the size/thickness of their boxes!!!!

So, also the edges of the newer produced decks are more rough then they where *in the old days'..

So, IMHO, it is impossible to state, that *this or that* BRAND is better for a perfect Faro then any other, as even production quality differs from production to production..

This is easy to understand..mind you, the tool they use to 'cut' the cards doesn't last sharp forever, after having cut thousands of cards, they have to replace it, so when at the start, using a 'new' one, the edges of the cut cards are 'sharper' and NOT that rough, whilst later productions using the same tool might have more 'rough' (I'm here talking about VERY slight differences) edges that would need a *working in* before that deck is 'good' for a smooth Faroa..

Just MHO on this subject...
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Postby Guest » 11/28/05 08:07 AM

Originally posted by Werner G. Seitz:
....Faroa..
Oh sh**, I forgot..it is spelled Farao... :D
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Postby Guest » 11/28/05 08:51 AM

Originally posted by DomT:
The Alex Emsley books contain an intersting tip on preparing the cards for faro shuffling.
But surely you shouldn't have to 'prepare' the cards. If someone hands you a deck you shouldn't have to apply some pro wrestling move before attempting a faro. Just take the deck, split it and go for it.

One of RK's card videos talked about getting the weight of the shoulder behind the cards prior to the weave. This always puzzled me. I couldn't see why you needed to be like Kong to do the work. But if it works for him, who am I to disagree?

On second thoughts, I'm wondering if DomT means align when he uses the term prepare?
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Postby Countelmsley » 11/28/05 08:36 PM

I believe youre right Psychosse; the little fingertip tip is an old marlo idea that is in the faro notes.

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Postby Guest » 11/28/05 11:57 PM

Originally posted by Darren Hart:
Which decks are best for performing the Anti Faro?
Each and every deck... :D
Remember, it's not the deck that does the work... :p
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Postby Guest » 12/11/05 04:57 PM

since this is already off-topic...what type of deck is a "500"
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Postby Richard Kaufman » 12/11/05 07:23 PM

If you can do a Faro Shuffle well, then you can do it with any deck. You'll be able to shuffle from the top down, from the bottom up, no problem. The cards really aren't an issue.
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Postby Guest » 12/20/05 09:53 AM

I asked the same question of Kirk Stiles back in 1980 and he told me, "A perfect faro has more to do with patience and pressure than the cards themselves."

For the past 25 years, his advice has held true. Any reasonable deck will faro (I say 'reasonable' because there's something wrong with faro-shuffling a deck with pictures of kittens...I mean, that's just NOT RIGHT, guys).

Best,
Mick
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Postby Guest » 12/20/05 10:09 AM

You can download some simple videos with faro shuffles and tricks here:
http://www.mastermagic.info/videos/

plus

http://www.denisbehr.de/farostuff.html
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Postby Ian Kendall » 12/20/05 10:49 AM

And there's a free tutorial at www.virtualmagicshow.com/stuff

Take care, Ian
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