Seamless T&R card

Discuss your favorite close-up tricks and methods.

Postby Guest » 09/29/04 09:12 PM

I am actually new to this forum. I have only recently 'discovered' it, so to speak.

There seems to be a lot of good suggestions and advice that emulates from here.

As such I though that I might seak some opinions on my take on the torn and restored card effect.

I know that in many ways it has been done to death. I hope that amongst all the people trying to come up with new ways to do the same thing, usually in a way that spectatores don't know the difference, I am able to do something to actually add to the effect.

At least that is what I was aiming for.

Almost forgot.
You can see it here;

http://magicbywest.tripod.com/id3.html

Just click on the image besides the Seamless description.

Let me know what you think.
Thank you.
Glenn West
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Postby Jonathan Townsend » 09/30/04 04:51 AM

Originally posted by gdw:
...
Let me know what you think.
Thank you.
Glenn West
Looks very impressive. Thanks for showing that it can be done.
Mundus vult decipi
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Postby Scott Fridinger » 09/30/04 08:19 AM

I feel so unsatisfied. As a fan of the Hollingsworth version, I never take much of a look at other versions. I checked it out and it looked GOOD, then I clicked on the My Stuff link, and found to my disapointment your little note on not selling it. Good for you, that is a real nice piece you have there, protect it as long as you can.

Scott
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Postby Guest » 09/30/04 09:15 AM

Well, thank you all very much. As I had had said I am open to any and all suggestions about this effect, and if you wish to comment on the other effects there, please do so as advice is what we are here for.

Thank you again.
Glenn
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Postby Pete Biro » 09/30/04 09:15 AM

I think this had been shown and discussed on the Cafe... the hand going out of frame kills it for me... and I believe the need to get a duplicate signed card is not that easy.

For a really simple, effective one check out Torched and Restored. If I can do it anyone can. :D
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Postby Guest » 09/30/04 09:37 AM

Actually the signature duplication method which I included in the origional manuscript has recieved more praise then the actual T&R.

I have found it surprisingly easy now to obtain a duplicate signature right infornt of the audience. And no, it is not the method where you rub off the 'dry erase' signature and have them sign again.

As for My hand going out of frame, just realize that I would be doing the equivalent of retrieving an item from my lap. You just see the edge of the screen instead of the table.

I will never understand why we accept loading from our laps but not if you can't see the tables edge even though you know it's there.

That's my thoughts atleast.
Glenn
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Postby Guest » 09/30/04 09:50 AM

I have also noticed that this is actually VERY easy to do with out the duplicate signature, and even with out an actual dup.

Particularly if you were to follow up with popular (for some reason) signature peeling.

I always liked the idea, but it doesn't leave as nice a souvinier.
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Postby Jim Maloney_dup1 » 09/30/04 11:57 AM

The actual restorations look nice, particularly the final one (though from what I can tell from the video, it seems fairly angley). My main gripe with the effect is the fact that all the restorations happen with the back of the card facing the audience. Although the card is shown at the beginning and end, during the restoration process there is no "proof" that the card being restored is the same signed selection. You're hiding all of the positive identification (the signature, the card's value, etc.). To me, at least, that weakens the effect.

-Jim
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Postby Guest » 09/30/04 12:25 PM

Acually, you'll notice that after each restoration you can and do show the sarc front and back.

This can be done face forward, although it would require a court card, but for reasons that are different then the likes of Hollingworths.

Can't say much more abuot that fact with out tiping a bit of the method. But I do successfully performed this card face front.
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Postby Jim Maloney_dup1 » 09/30/04 12:34 PM

In that case, I'm very curious about the method. If it can be done with the face outward, then I see no reason to do it the other way. Seems counter-productive, to me.

-Jim
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Postby Guest » 09/30/04 01:26 PM

I do it back outwards as more of a safety thing.

If the audience is TOO close they would have a bettr chance of 'spotting' something if the face as forward. But it would be the same handeling.

I have recently worked out a new and more convincing handling which allows for a very open display of four, single layered(re: no folded pieces) pieces that can be counted, aswell as the ability to hold the card by each piece after it has been restored. (as to show that they are actually atavhed and not just held there by your finger.)

I'll be updating the video when I get a chance to film it.

Glenn

P.s. let me know what you think of Signature Swindle too.
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Postby Pete Biro » 09/30/04 02:38 PM

I realize going "out of frame" is the same as lapping... but WHAT IS NEEDED for walkaround is a CLEAN stand up version. No lapping, no dupe signatures... you don't have time when working a room full of people in small groups.
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Postby Guest » 09/30/04 03:18 PM

It is very easy to do with out 'lapping' although I never specified this for walk around. I personally would not even bother with a piece by piece for wlak around.

It is possible to do however. As for the signature, the dup is not neccisary nor is it hard to accomplish in walk around.
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Postby cataquet » 10/01/04 12:11 PM

Pete, I stand by JC Wagner's T&R card. It probably started everyone off (searching for the complete restoration), so there is an obvious weakness. However, you can do it virtually surrounded and the reset is minimal. Any card can be chosen. Moreover, everything can be done at the fingertips, and the card is virtually 'face towards the audience' for most of the routine. In my book, the pluses far outweigh the minuses. However, others may disagree.

Complete seamless restorations just scream that you switched the cards. You are adding angle problems. A card has to be forced. A signature has to be duplicated. You are adding more moving parts. More things to go wrong.

Don't get me wrong. I am sure this is a great effect under the "right" circumstances. The problem is that those circumstances occur only a very small proportion of the time.

Bye for now

Harold
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Postby Guest » 10/01/04 12:27 PM

Actually this effect is performable under all the same circumstance as almost all other T&Rs. I have actually done this surrounded. I know that sound obsurd, but it is only the last piece that has any angle sensitivity and that is easily taken care of through misdirection and audience management, as are many other aspects of many other effects.

As for the sig Duping it is very easy and also not neccisary.

It is also easy to do this impromtu.

I have been told that it is one of the acceptions with angles in T&Rs as it has far less problems then most as there is no need to be unfolding the card to perform the restorations.
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Postby Bill Duncan » 10/02/04 11:58 AM

I like the Wagner version of Paul Harris' "The Ultimate Ripoff" and suggested it as an alternative to the Harris handling when I published my notes on the effect and my script in Tubthumping.

Both are great handings for walk around performance. Both require a reason for not restoring the last piece, and in Wagner's version a way to ditch the extra stuff... That's my contribution.

I maintain that Harris' routine is the best T&R effect around for general use and should be learned by everyone because it's just a strong with someone's borrowed business card, or an index card at the office, or a take out lunch menu or...
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Postby Guest » 10/05/04 11:58 AM

Hey, what happened, some one just mentioned a certain name ;) Is he still taboo around here?

I believe we were just being warned that he does plan to make a return as one of hi 'hundereds aff alias' I believe were his words.

Just curious.
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Postby Richard Kaufman » 10/05/04 12:01 PM

Curiosity killed the cat.
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Postby Guest » 10/05/04 12:54 PM

I'm sorry?
I'm just forwarning that he is to return so if you suspect you probably suspect right.

I don't want to get in trouble. Just trying to help.

thanks
Glenn
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Postby Richard Kaufman » 10/05/04 07:08 PM

If you don't want to get into trouble, then don't mention him again--it's pretty damn simple.
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Postby Guest » 10/05/04 07:41 PM

Ok I'm sorry. I personalyy am happy with never having any one mention him again.

However you did ask for it to be brought to your attention if we ever suspected him of coming back.

Just trying to help.

Glenn
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Postby Guest » 10/11/04 11:35 AM

Glenn, Seamless is very beautifull !
Do you think you will release it ?
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Postby NikMikas » 10/11/04 05:30 PM

For all you nay sayers here, let me tell you that I have seen Glenn do this stand up, and almost surrounded. All while fooling a group of magicians. This effect is the closest thing to magic I have ever seen.
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Postby Guest » 10/11/04 06:47 PM

Thank you Nik.

I'm not sure, but I imagine this is the Nik I know from TO, yes?

If so drop me a line, I have Shanes address but not yours.

Thanks again
Glenn
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Postby Guest » 10/12/04 12:56 PM

I purchased this awhile back when it was available from Glenn...I'm glad that he stopped selling it.

His method of getting around the signature is very nice, and the whole routine flows very smoothly. It does make sense, not creasing the cards before the tear, which is why the routine has a very nice hands off feel to is.

It looks very good, and the laymen like it. That's what matters to me.

Zach
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Postby Bill Hallahan » 10/12/04 01:18 PM

I like it. Nice routine.

A hypothetical "real" magician would do a seamless total restoration, so I think this looks great.

I like Paul Harris's routine too.

Update: I think I do like J.C. Wagner's Torn and Restored best... so far.
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Postby Richard Kaufman » 10/12/04 08:47 PM

[censored] was on this thread for a little while masquerading as "Doc Green." He's gone now. Everyone please keep an eye out. I think we can safely say that he'll be back.
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Postby Robert Allen » 10/12/04 09:00 PM

Originally posted by Richard Kaufman:
I think we can safely say that he'll be back.
Like an irritating, but lame, rash.
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Postby Guest » 10/13/04 06:51 AM

Thank you.

I thought that might be him. I didn't want to say anythng just yet though.

Let us get back on topic now.

Is there any one actually having trouble with spywear and the like with my site?

If so please feel free to let me know and I will do what I can to fix it.

Thanks
Glenn

P.S.
I imagine that this last section will be removed, and rightfully so, as we do not need it on these forums. I missed the last comments made by 'Doc Green.' I wouldn't mind being filled in as to what was said as I am documenting any such libel and slander just incase.

Again me e-mail is opendoorgw@yahoo.ca if you wish to help.

Sorry, Mr. Kaufman, for having more on here then need be.

Thank you
Glenn
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Postby Steve Hook » 10/13/04 02:42 PM

Originally posted by Glenn West:

Is there any one actually having trouble with spywear and the like with my site?

from
Freeware Home

"Tripod's new ad tricks are driving Norton Anti Virus nuts! Tripod has introduced, on their free-hosted website pages, a new way to get their ads "in your face" & NAV is "detecting" it as a "Trojan dropper". It's annoying, it's messing with browser settings, but it's NOT a malicious Trojan so NAV should NOT be scaring you! What Tripod is doing is changing your browser's "View" setting to open the "channel" frame on the left & then filling it with Tripod advertising links, here's a screenshot of a Tripod page. It clearly says "Tripod" BUT it won't go away until you close the channel frame in your browser. It's advertising, it's annoying, but it's harmless. It's also an excellent opportunity for NAV to scare you so that you'll happily spend some more money on updates!"

I did an extensive search and it does not appear that Tripod puts adware or spyware on a viewer's computer, Glenn. :)
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Postby Guest » 10/13/04 03:32 PM

Thank you very muck Steve.

I was worried there for a bit. I didn't want to adding to the problems with vrius'.

I might be moving my site around to a place with less popups though.

Although, depending, I might just forget about the site all together.

I took my products off the market a few months ago and I don't think I'll be doing much new untill I get the DVD going. (The DVD is mostly for fun, I enjoy media arts and film production)

I've also been shifting more of my focus on my art since I moved home.

It's been fun working on drawings for manuscripts and what not.
I've been reworking Seamless' manuscript for the benifit of those who already own it. Might be a while still as I'm drawing all the photos now for clarity.

I'm enjoying it though. This is also probably pretty uniteresting to you guys. I ten to ramble.

Thanks again for the research Steve.

Glenn
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Postby Guest » 11/27/04 11:01 PM

What I dont understand is...If Seamless is not for sale then why bother soliciting comments on it? Why defend or the superiority of the method? Since the "method" is not for sale, what difference does it make if it is "less angley" or the dupe signature is clean and quick. You sound like you're trying to sell a product that's not even for sale. Sheesh!
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Postby Guest » 11/28/04 12:54 PM

As I had mentioned it is schedualed for a re-release and also I imagine that many seak critisism for thier work and likewise identify the pro's and cons aswell.

I have done similarly with other works of mine as it is a process that helps to better said work. I have also been there for many others doing the same.

Glenn
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Postby Guest » 02/04/05 07:23 PM

Well it looks as though the manuscript may be avaliable again soon.

It will be re-written and will have new pictures. Still not sure if they will be illustrations or actual pics, but we'll see.

Hopfully the DVd will be able to follow after that.
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Postby 2061x » 02/05/05 10:19 AM

Glen,

Looking forward to it, please keep us posted.

Lamb
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Postby mark » 02/05/05 02:19 PM

Spirit, whether marketing an effect or not, can we not help one another with our collective experience? A critique of any effect is quite helpful, most especially critiques provided by knowledgable and objective minds. I wouldn't hesitate for a second to ask people like Bill Duncan or Pete Biro if they might be so kind as to give their opinions, additions, or corrections. Please don't feel that improving one's magic is necessarily bound by commerce. Seamless looks pretty good to me, though the 'out of frame' thing sort of throws it for me as well. This is probably one of those instances that magic is hard to perform for a camera. Just my .02 worth, hope no offense is generated.
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Postby Guest » 02/05/05 05:48 PM

I agree. That was actually the original reason I posted it. Thanks, and don't worry no offence is taken by me at least ;)
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