Ambitious Riser

Discuss your favorite close-up tricks and methods.

Postby Guest » 08/24/01 10:05 AM

I am having an extremely difficult time getting this sleight to work. I have the Ray Kosby tape which explains it (briefly). Is there a good explanation in print? Or can anyone please provide me with some tips?
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Postby Richard Kaufman » 08/24/01 11:41 AM

Sean,
I'm mystified by your comment about "Raise Rise" on Kosby's tape, which I directed. We spent a long time trying to get the camera angles for the description just right, and I think we succeeded. There really isn't a lot more to say about the sleight other than that is is EXTREMELY difficult, and requires a good YEAR of practice before it will look deceptive. It is NOT something everyone will be able to do because it requires such skill.
Good luck!
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Postby Guest » 08/24/01 12:35 PM

I've tried to learn it from the tape and can not seem to do it. I think I learn sleights better from reading a very detailed description. This was the case with learning both the pinky count and the riffle pass (both of which I use extensively). I'd seen The Tannen's Derek Dingle tape and the A-1 Darwin Ortiz tape but could not understand the actual mechanics behind the sleights until I read the written descriptions (both by you). Any tips? :confused:
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Postby Raj Madhok » 08/25/01 12:03 AM

I recall seeing a written explanation of "Raise Rise" in Magical Arts Journal..sorry I can't tell you which one.

This is a difficult sleight I've attempted to master over the past several years (ncluding personal tips from Kosby and Nu who both do it well).It just doesn't flow consistently for me so I've put it aside for now until the cramps go away.
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Postby Richard Kaufman » 08/25/01 12:30 AM

I think people underestimate just how INCREDIBLY difficult "Raise Rise" is. I can do some very difficult stuff, including my routine "On the Up and Up," which is a rising card routine using Fred Robinson's Ambitious Riser sleight. BUT, it will be a cold day in hell before I can do "Raise Rise." I just gave up!
I'll put it this way ... I've seen lots of people who can do the pass well, but I have only seen two or three people do "Raise Rise" well. Hmmmmmmmmmm
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Postby Bill Duncan » 08/25/01 02:04 AM

Originally posted by Raj Madhok:
I recall seeing a written explanation of "Raise Rise" in Magical Arts Journal..sorry I can't tell you which one.

Raise Rise is on the cover of a Double Issue

June & July 1987 issue Volume One No. Eleven & Twelve
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Postby Larry Horowitz » 08/25/01 04:27 PM

Ray's Riser is a great trick which I no longer find difficult. I gave up! The orthopedic surgeon says the cramped and mangled fingers should someday revert to normal. I hope so, because Ray has plenty of GREAT stuff worth the time and effort.
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Postby Guest » 08/26/01 12:16 AM

An explanation of the raise-rise move can be found in Paul Harris' Book The Art of Astonishment Volume 1. It is in the trick "Deep Thought"
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Postby Richard Kaufman » 08/26/01 02:53 AM

While I generally don't think that video is the best way to learn stuff, "Raise Rise" WILL be easier to learn from the videotape.
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Postby Matthew Field » 08/26/01 11:05 AM

Originally posted by Richard Kaufman:
While I generally don't think that video is the best way to learn stuff, "Raise Rise" WILL be easier to learn from the videotape.


I have come to the conclusion, expressed to Mr. Kaufman some years ago, that video is best for teaching timing and rope (and rubber band) tricks.

Watch the Jennings videos and see how much (or little) is comprehensible on those beloved tapes.

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Postby Richard James » 08/26/01 12:59 PM

Interesting Topic. However, IMHO, there could be another reason that most people find the trick so difficult to perform - It may be PHYSICALLY impossible for them!

To clarify what I mean, simply have a look at the cover of Kosby tape. Check out the LENGTH of Ray Kosby's pinky ... It's HUGE :eek:


Maybe using a Bridge sized deck will help those that are 'pinky challenged' :D
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Postby Guest » 08/26/01 09:33 PM

I have "Pinky Envy"!
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Postby Richard Kaufman » 08/26/01 10:37 PM

Welcome Richard James from Scotland. Let's forget about the length of Ray Kosby's pinky for a moment. I have a smaller than average size hand (about the size of Vernon's hand, I discovered to my shock in 1982) and my little pinky has no trouble getting to the corner of the jogged cards for "On the Up and Up."
Sean: is it "Stinky Pinky" envy?
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Postby Richard James » 08/27/01 05:16 AM

Hi Richard,

I haven't read your routine for, "On the Up and Up" (where is it published?)so I don't know if the following comment is relevant for your routine ... But

The original Fred Robinson move is performed with your left hand in a different position than that used by Ray Grismer.

Fred Robinson's routine, published in Pabular, has the cards held at your fingertips. This makes the move MUCH easier to perform.

For Fred's routine, you only have to hold the deck using your Thumb and Index finger. This leaves your pinky free to easily reach the outjogged corner and it is also easy to move your other fingers out of the way during the move.

By contrast, in the Kosby routine, the pack is held in more or less standard dealing position. This means that your pinky has further to travel. It now has to curl DOWN to reach the corner in the first place. This is, IMHO, what causes such a cramped feeling when trying to perform Ray's superb routine.

Like yourself, I have only ever seen a couple of people that can actually perform the move well enough to use it under fire. That is Ray Kosby himself and Marc Caplan from Scotland. I have been informed that Paul Wilson also does the routine, but I have yet to see him perform it. Maybe I'll ask him to do it next time I see him :-)

All The Best,

Richard James
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Postby Richard Kaufman » 08/27/01 11:39 AM

On the Up and Up is a separate booklet that went out of print long ago. Perhaps I'll just put the whole thing into Genii one day.
The basic move is Eric Mason's (reinvented by Krenzel and inadvertantly credited to him in the booklet), which appeared an issue or two after Fred's original in Pabular. The deck is held solely by the thumb and first finger at the upper end (since the deck faces the audience), and the pinky does lots of work.
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Postby Guest » 08/31/01 08:13 PM

Man, I'm glad to read that I'm not the only one that got their asses kicked trying to master Raise Rise. Did I say "master"? Hahahha..what I meant was "do anything remotely resembling Raise Rise". I can't even get the pinky out-jogs, much less do the Ambitious Riser. The difficulty of this move is such that it has acheived ultimate respect status for people that can do it that you meet at conventions...it goes like this:"Can you do the Top Shot?"...then,"Sanky has a KILLER pass...how is yours?", and finally.."Can you do the Raise Rise? No? Well, have you ever met anyone who can?"..hehehe. As far as I know the only other person that can do that move besides Kosby is Paul Wilson....good luck!
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Postby Guest » 09/01/01 08:19 AM

Ray Kosby was over here in Ireland a couple of months ago,I was able to meet him at a friends house.He floored everybody by doing Raise-Rise with 2 packs of cards one on top of the other. :)
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Postby Guest » 09/04/01 12:58 PM

i too own the Ray Kosby Tape, and was incredibly impressed by what the man can do... majoritavely it seems to me, with variations on that one 'ambitious riser' move. He has obviously spent much time practising and has gained many effect from this magnificant sleight. But, to qoute Vernon ' Why does 'practise frighten so many people?'. I'm not saying you haven't tried, but how many times have you been stuck on a sleight, and blamed your pinky or something else... only to find a way round it later? See a sleght this powerful as an investment. As Mr Kaufman so correctly states it could take a YEAR. But whats one year out of fifty doing the trick? If you dont want to spend a year then fair enough, there are other equal effects attainable with far less effort, but if you do, put the kettle on, put your feet up and get out those bicycles! :D
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Postby Guest » 09/05/01 06:36 PM

Having mentioned in another post about my attempts at Raise Rise I didnt mention that as I was working on that effect for so long I negleted to watch the remainder of the video.
Having now done so, Ive found that the Flytrap effect seems to help in the learning of the Riser move.
At least now Im getting something resembling an outjogged card. (Now! If I can just get my damn forefinger to work in the squaring movement at the front of the cards at the same time. :) )

[ September 05, 2001: Message edited by: Ronnie ]
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Postby Carl Mercurio » 09/14/01 04:08 PM

I've been using the Eric Mason card rise for some time for walkaround and think it is a fantastic move. And not really difficult at all. The kid from Germany's Flicking Fingers, The Little Green Lecture Notes, I can see his face but forget his name, does the move in a four-ace production with the aces separated by a faro.
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Postby Pete McCabe » 09/14/01 04:25 PM

Add Chad Long to the extremely short list of people who can do Raise Rise perfectly.

The first time I ever saw the move was Chad doing it just for me while playing pool at a bar. I was entirely baffled, of course. How could you even imagine what he's doing -- it seems completely impossible even when you know exactly how it's done.

Chad can also do the notoriously difficult S.W.E Elevator effect from Chris Kenner's "Out of Control" equally well. I wonder if Chad is the only person in the world who can do both.

While we were there, a waiter came over to take our drink order, saw the end of some trick, and asked if one of us (Me, Chad, and Bill Malone) would do a trick for him.

Well, it was either Chad or Bill(!) and Chad went. He fanned the deck for the spectator to merely think of a card. Chad pulled the king of spades from the deck -- is this your card? No.

Chad put the KS on the pool table. What was your card? The Three of Hearts.

Chad blew on the back of the KS and it flipped over. It was the three of Hearts.

After the stunned waiter went off, Bill asked Chad how he was able to make the card flip over just by blowing on it. Chad said he didn't know -- it just came to him, he tried it, and it worked.

The three of us spent the next 15 minutes blowing at cards, trying to get them to flip over. I'm pretty sure none of us succeeded even once.

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Postby Guest » 09/14/01 05:35 PM

Carl,

I believe you are thinking of Pit Hartling.
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Postby Carl Mercurio » 09/14/01 05:40 PM

Mark,
Thanks, yes, I just blanked on the guy.
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Postby Guest » 10/12/01 06:43 AM

I can't help but notice that Chad long is emerging as a serious heavywieght at magic. He seems to have the full package. Killer tech, great personality and direct effects. I wish I was Chad long.
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Postby Richard Kaufman » 10/12/01 09:18 AM

The idea of doing the Eric Mason Rising Card sleight using four Aces separated by Faro Shuffle is Earl Nelson's and appeared many years ago in Richard's Almanac.
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Postby Carl Mercurio » 10/12/01 09:30 AM

Richard,
There is another variation of the Eric Mason card rise in which two perfectly squared cards are pushed up by the pinky. An indifferent card is at the face hiding the selected card, which is then switched out. Who gets the credit on this idea?
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Postby Guest » 10/12/01 08:12 PM

Originally posted by Carl Mercurio:
Richard,
There is another variation of the Eric Mason card rise in which two perfectly squared cards are pushed up by the pinky. An indifferent card is at the face hiding the selected card, which is then switched out. Who gets the credit on this idea?


Carl --
I don't know the Eric Mason move, but what you described sounds a lot what I've been doing for decades (oh God, I'm not exaggerating!) with the two-handed plunger rise. I've found it's a cinch to make two cards rise together, either perfectly registered or with the rear card slightly lower and easily squared up. Sets up a great sucker gag.

--Ralph
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Postby Richard Kaufman » 10/12/01 08:34 PM

Carl,
What you're talking about sounds like a combination of The Eric Mason rising card move done with a double card, followed by the ancient Push-In Change. No one can, or should, make such an obvious claim.
On the other hand, there is a visual change in the original On the Up and Up booklet by Krenzel, where you push up a single card--the wrong card--and then you rapidly (faster than the eye can see) push up another card in front of it. This is one of the most eye-popping things I've ever performed.
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Postby Guest » 04/04/02 08:41 AM

By the way, I believe the photo on the cover of Impossible Card Magic is someone elses hand. I have a normal length pinky.

Ray
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Postby Richard Kaufman » 04/04/02 10:07 AM

C'mon Kosby, we all know that your pinky is about three feet long.
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Postby Guest » 04/04/02 05:29 PM

That's why its called IMPOSSIBLE card magic

Kosby has the perfect magic marketing idea. Create a fantastic move that looks great that can be sold and taught to thousands but few will make it commomplace and old because it is so hard. ;)

I have spent a few months trying hard to get Raise Rise down and have had little luck. However, the video is clear and goes into more then enough detail from several angles.

The only detail I have missed is the skill.

It is joining the muscle pass and hot shot card in the 'I suck' basket.
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