Is 'the pass' in your arsenal?

Discuss your favorite close-up tricks and methods.

Postby Guest » 08/19/03 02:36 PM

Why is the pass seemingly the best way to control a card?!! Why can't the magi do a hindu shuffle or some other control to get the result he wants? Whats all the fuss about the pass? :confused:
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Postby Pete Biro » 08/19/03 03:12 PM

I'd rather use a key card and spend more time working on the performance end of things.
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Postby Jim Maloney_dup1 » 08/19/03 04:58 PM

As a control for a single card, I agree with those that say it's like killing a mosquito with a sledgehammer. There are much more efficient ways to do it, such as the side steal. However, for controlling multiple cards with no outward movement (i.e., not cutting the deck or something like that), the pass is the best way to go. See something like The Cavorting Aces in Stars of Magic. Try doing that with anything other than the pass. It's really just a matter of what fits the effect in question.

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Postby Michel Huot » 08/19/03 06:01 PM

What is the best way to make good coffee...

The best way is the way YOU like it.

Whatever control YOU prefer and you can do perfectly than this is the best one for you. I always use the pass cause I like it and even if people can't see it, it's a way of doing something for me, something I like (that 1% cause the other 99% I give it to the audience)

Hey it's not bad!!! :p
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Postby Michael Kamen » 08/19/03 06:55 PM

I think it just has to do with the timing, the point in time at which you need to control the particular card(s). If a shuffle or series of cuts would detract from the effect you are trying to achieve, the pass is one of the best tools. The kind of pass also depends on the situation and what handling is simplest and most natural. In contrast I find that a key card is very handy for keeping track of the location of a stock of cards when some casual shuffling and cutting is called for in the "bit-stream" of the effect. Without command of several versions of the pass, I think a magician's options with respect to card magic are severly hampered. Of course there are also plenty of great tricks that do not require the pass anyway.
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Postby Guest » 08/19/03 07:32 PM

Originally posted by Gavriel:
Why is the pass seemingly the best way to control a card?!! Why can't the magi do a hindu shuffle or some other control to get the result he wants? Whats all the fuss about the pass? :confused:
Because when your only tool is a hammer,
you see every problem as a nail.

Steven Youell
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Postby Michael Kamen » 08/19/03 07:45 PM

Hey Steve,
Awsome tabled faro!!!
Michael
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Postby Guest » 08/19/03 08:41 PM

Originally posted by Michael Kamen:
Hey Steve,
Awsome tabled faro!!!
Michael
Thank you sir! I plan on continuing to put
out these CD's at a very inexpensive price
so everybody can learn this stuff....

We'll now return this thread to it's normal
programming....

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Postby Jonathan Townsend » 08/19/03 09:09 PM

Originally posted by Gavriel:
Why is the pass seemingly the best way to control a card?!! Why can't the magi do a hindu shuffle or some other control to get the result he wants? Whats all the fuss about the pass? :confused:
That's at least four different questions.

When does the pass seem best to whom? ... usually a good option when NO APPARENT handling is the criteria

The end shuffle is a bunch of motions that may be uncalled for in the routine.

The classic pass is problematic for most folks as it requires MUCH practice to make the move smooth and MUCH MORE practice to make the move invisible.

Such a difficult move that serves few 'display' purposes makes a bad investment for many magicians, and so there is much discussion of 'sour grapes' about the move.

Yours truly gave up on the move proper and instead uses a variation of the Hermann or reverse pass.

Funny thing here is that Lee Asher just released a great move that would almost replace the pass in many common routines.
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Postby mark » 08/19/03 10:17 PM

The pass is one of those moves that seems to have some emotional investment. In an informal survey of the people I normally session/associate with, there are very few that use it, and most of those adamantly insist that there are much better moves, so why waste the time to constantly keep one's pass up to speed? The few that do use it smile, try to keep the pass up to speed, and use the heck out of it ;)
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Postby Nathan » 08/19/03 11:15 PM

Even if you never use a pass to actually control a card (preferably a group of cards) during a performance, careful study of the pass greatly improves general card handling skill. It requires a soft elegant touch to perform a deceptive pass. Certainly this elegance rubs off onto other less demanding sleights.

Such elegance stemming from extreme technical competance is commonplace is most other artistic fields. I feel that it is something we must all strive for in card magic as well.
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Postby Richard Kaufman » 08/20/03 08:47 AM

Here's what I can tell you from practical experience and watching other magicians over the past 30 years: if someone can do the Pass, they USE it all the time. The only people who complain about what a poor control the Pass is, and all the baloney about killing a fly with a sledgehammer, are people who cannot do the Pass well enough so that people don't see it.
The Side Steal requires TWO moves to complete rather than one. First, you must steal the card. Second, you must replace the card. My Pass, and control of the card to top or bottom of the deck, is over before the Side Stealer has even pushed his card out of the deck.
The Pass is far superior to the Side Steal as a card control.
If you feel like you're going to pee in your pants everytime you have to do a difficult sleight, then the Pass is not for you.
Every single top flight card man I've ever met could do the Pass with the exception of Brother Hamman, who had his own devious manner of deception.
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Postby Guest » 08/20/03 09:12 AM

Originally posted by Richard Kaufman:
The Side Steal requires TWO moves to complete rather than one. First, you must steal the card. Second, you must replace the card. My Pass, and control of the card to top or bottom of the deck, is over before the Side Stealer has even pushed his card out of the deck.
The Pass is far superior to the Side Steal as a card control.
Richard:

I use several passes (non-standard) without wetting my pants and I've had them checked with some fairly knowledgeable card men-- all of who praised it. I say that not to pat myself on the back, but so that you understand that in general, I think shifts are excellent moves and have also spent a few decades practicing them and watching other people do them well.

And, to quote a rather well known video tape:
"It's a great move and it's underused."

But I do disagree with you when you say the pass is superior to the side steal because it can be done in one movement. I think that begs the question of what constitutes "superior". Doing something in one move is ALWAYS better than doing it in two moves? Doesn't make sense to me....

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Postby Jim Maloney_dup1 » 08/20/03 09:53 AM

Originally posted by Richard Kaufman:
The only people who complain about what a poor control the Pass is, and all the baloney about killing a fly with a sledgehammer, are people who cannot do the Pass well enough so that people don't see it.
I'll admit that I can't do the pass. Probably because I haven't bothered to learn because I don't think it's worth the work to learn it just so I can control a single card. The side steal is much more efficient, IMO.

The Side Steal requires TWO moves to complete rather than one. First, you must steal the card. Second, you must replace the card. My Pass, and control of the card to top or bottom of the deck, is over before the Side Stealer has even pushed his card out of the deck.
The Pass is far superior to the Side Steal as a card control.
The side steal just requires a simple back and forth motion and you're done. The action of the right hand in a Side Steal is similar to the action of the left fingers in the Pass. In each case, you need to get the card (or block of cards) past the edge of the deck, and then bring it back square with the deck. The pass may be faster, but that's not necessarily better. The Side Steal is easier to accomplish, for me, and gets the job done just as well. That, IMO, makes it a better choice. The pass has it's uses, like I stated in my original post, but I just think that there are better choices when controlling a single card.

If you feel like you're going to pee in your pants everytime you have to do a difficult sleight, then the Pass is not for you.
Every single top flight card man I've ever met could do the Pass with the exception of Brother Hamman, who had his own devious manner of deception.
Maybe that's true. But the sample space is skewed in your favor. Of course the "top flight card men" (i.e., those interested in perfecting difficult sleight of hand with a deck of cards) are going to work on and use a difficult sleight such as the pass. Doesn't mean it's always the best choice.

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Postby Richard Kaufman » 08/20/03 03:41 PM

The Side Steal can be learned in a matter of weeks, particularly those techniques that are currently favored, like Marlo's Deliberate Side Steal, and it's even easier if you don't do it from a squared deck.
Let us not forget the origin of the Side Steal: it was developed by Leipzig to overcome several weaknesses in the standard manner of having a card selected and returned to the deck. Leipzig's goal was to come up with a new manner of controlling and palming a card that seemed to preclude such a thing in the mind of what he thought was an ever-increasingly educated spectator.
Instead of spreading the deck and having a card removed, the deck remains squared. The spectator (NOT the performer) pushes open the deck with his thumb and peeks at a card, then allows the deck to close. The magician then steals the card into his PALM from the SQUARED deck.
That is what the inventor of the move had in mind.
I have my suspicions that it was Downs who first used the move to control a card to the top of the deck rather than palm it, which is why it appears in "Art of Magic" with no credit to Leipzig (this is entirely speculation on my part).
One nice thing about the Pass is that it keeps the deck square after the card has been replaced.
Finally, the back and forth movement of the right hand, which must first REMOVE the card from the center before PLACING it on top (TWO distinct movements) is in no way analogous to the single action of the Pass.
Once you've learned the Pass, nothing could be easier, simpler, and take less effort than using it to control a card to the top. I've seen lots of cardmen do Passes I could NOT see. I've NEVER seen a cardman do a Side Steal that I could not see.
It's simply an inferior technique.
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Postby Guest » 08/20/03 06:31 PM

I've seen lots of cardmen do Passes I could NOT see. I've NEVER seen a cardman do a Side Steal that I could not see.[/QB][/QUOTE]

So you seen the invisible (passes)-- but never the visible (Side Steals)...?

It's simply an inferior technique.
Richard-- I have very strong feelings about the Pass. Before I even start, I want to make sure that this takes the spirit of a healthy debate, and not an argument. If this is something you don't WANT to debate, for whatever reason-- let me know now...? : :)
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Postby Jonathan Townsend » 08/20/03 06:43 PM

The sidesteal is a great way to get a card or cards away from the deck. It seems a waste of a good move to use a good steal just to put the cards back. When used to setup a colorchange, some good time delay helps.

Anyone else thinking Lee's move would be a beter application than a side steal and replacement?
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Postby Jim Maloney_dup1 » 08/20/03 07:31 PM

Originally posted by Jonathan Townsend:
Anyone else thinking Lee's move would be a beter application than a side steal and replacement?
I dunno. An astute observer could notice the discrepancy in the move and call you on it. I'm sure it'll work for a good portion of the time, but I'd prefer to use a method that's a little more concealed. It also requires that you separate the deck. As Richard pointed out, the side steal was originally designed as a way to control a card after a peek, where the deck is squared. Losing Control simply wouldn't be an option in that instance.

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Postby Jason Wethington » 08/21/03 04:36 AM

Jon are you refering to Pulp Friction or Losing Control? 'LC' is a wonderful move I haven't taken the time to really work on the timing to be honest but I definately see the value. Pulp Friction has replaced the pass in one of my routines, it fits better with the rest of the handling I developed. I can see 'Pulp' replacing some passes because of the cover thats used and the fact that both packets remain horizontal during the action.

I personally use two different passes in my professional work, the Cervon Free Turn and the Classic, I do not use a side steal ever. I watched Bob Bengal do a multiple selection routine in which every card returned was stolen and replaced on top. Perhaps I might miss the peculiar action once but not 7 times. Perhaps in certain applications the Side Steal is a better move... I can't think of any though.
Jason

P.S. My comment about Bob's Routine is in no way slamming his technique I NEVER saw the card being moved, I did see the overt action of the hand replacing the card though.
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Postby Ian Kendall » 08/21/03 07:09 AM

Vaiting a veek...

(which I know refers to a palm, but it is in the spirit of the discussion...)

In the interests of disclosure; I can do a side steal and a few passes, but 95% of the time I will use a classic pass.

This seems to be one of those debates where everyone has a valid arguement, and a more valid opinion :) . For several years at the beginning I was adamant that I did not need to use the pass, and had no interest in learning it (I admit, in hindsight, that this had a lot to do with not being able to do the move...). It was when I was vociferously putting this point across (to Duffie, Wilson, McBride and Gavin Ross, amongst others...) that Paul Weir pointed out that the 'covert cut' (to give it a name) that I had been using all that time was, in fact, a type of pass. I had been railing against the classic pass, because I could not do it. Arse.

Never let it be said that I have a closed mind, and with this new found revelation I set about learning the pass (this happened in 91). Now I swear by (and occasionally at) it.

It was in 93 in Melbourne that I had a discussion with someone when he said that he could do the pass, but never used it as it was not invisible. We talked about how any pass that the audience does not see is invisible, and if they are not looking at the deck, any pass _could_ be described as invisible (potential flame bait there...)

I do know that there are many routines that require the deck to be under scrutiny during the pass (passing along the vanishing aces, I think it's called) but I would wager that the majority of times a pass is performed for a lay audience it is in conjunction with some (or several) forms of misdirection so that the deck is out of the area of visual interest.

And this is where the concept of superiority of either move comes into question. It's a matter of application. I much prefer trains to planes (speaking as a commercial pilot...) as I am too big for most public transport and on a train I can get up and go for a walk to stretch my legs. However, I cannot get a train to Spain. My wife prefers planes as it is three hours shorter to London, but she cannot fly to Leeds. There are some who prefer the side steal, and if it takes an extra second to control the card, if noone is watching the deck, who really cares?

Added to that, there are many things that can be done with a side steal that cannot be done with a pass (ref Mark Mason's peek steal (and yes, I know it's a steal and not a control per se); the card is peeked, in one very fluid motion the deck is spread on the table and the card is already under the glass. There is _no_ pause).

It's horses for courses. I remember a conversation I had at University many years ago; We were discussing the relative merits of rifles and pistols (and I cannot remember how we got into it) but the debate was leaning towards rifles being the superior weapon until I pointed out that if he had a rifle and I (who was sitting right next to him) had a pistol, the balance would tip in my favour...

Anyway, apologies again for the length but I am standing by for the usual comments/suggestions/howls of derision.

Take care, Ian
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Postby Guest » 08/21/03 10:45 AM

One of the original questions was why one would use a pass.

Answer - to move a card from one place in the deck to another without the spectator suspecting, let alone detecting, that something was going on.

If one tries for a seemingly "moveless" approach to their card work, a Pass is essential, perhaps more than one, IMPO.

I personally use a Turnover Pass (it's easy to conceal) and a Bluff Pass because I like gutsy moves that don't LOOK like moves.

By having a card selected and the deck seemingly squared without any other movement, the heat is off and the surprise of the revelation heightened.

One cannot do a Hindu Shuffle Control without the audience knowing that you are moving the cards around.

In the eyes of many spectators, if you move the cards around, you are doing "something" to the deck that will cause the card to appear where you want it.

And they would be right in thinking so.

The question I have reads more like - should we strive to be "moveless" in our card work, or is there a time and place for fancy moves?

I know my answer to that one (and it may not be what you think, based on the earlier part of this post), but I'd be interested in seeing what the rest of the group has to say.

Respectfully,

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Postby Brian Rasmussen » 10/10/03 12:51 PM

As a sort of rite of passage, I've tried to learn a classic pass before without much success. I know it takes a long time and plenty of practice. But aren't some people just inclined to this sort of sleight over others? Can you really learn it if you want? It kind of makes me think about a shorter person who would like to dunk a basketball someday. Not saying it can't be done, but the majority of people would probably end up failing. I say this because I know of some younger magicians that can do these types of moves and they haven't practiced them for 20 years! Why is that? Besides, isn't a short jumper or layup the same 2 points as the slam dunk so why take a more difficult route in controlling cards if another way is easier and gets you to the same goal?! You don't use a pass to 'pump up the crowd' sort of speak.
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Postby Michael Kamen » 10/10/03 06:35 PM

It is easier to develop many "muscle-memory" skills when you are younger of course. The key thing (i think) is do you enjoy practicing or not? The next question is are you practicing correctly or are you practicing a sloppy mistake over and over again. If the answer is yes to the first question, then all that stands in your way is the answer to the second question.

The pass may be a rite of passage but it is also an indispensible sleight, perhaps *the* indispensible sleight to begin learning serious card magic. My humble opinion of course.
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Postby Pete Biro » 10/10/03 09:08 PM

None of the moves are worth doing WITHOUT proper misdirection. I really think so many card workers forget the body language, the moment (when no one is looking at the deck) and the presentational timing.

Today we saw a guy work the Castle Close up room that dumped or stole items from his jacket pocket. NONE HAD MISDIRECTION and just about everybody knew what he was doing every time.

However, when Tamariz goes to a pocket NOBODY notices it.
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Postby Guest » 10/19/03 07:13 AM

Why is the pass seemingly the best way to control a card?!! Why can't the magi do a hindu shuffle or some other control to get the result he wants?
They are two completely different things. Sure, the same thing happens, but it's what seems to happen thats different!!!. In a hindu shuffle the spec thinks the card could be anywhere, with the pass the spec KNOWS the card is in the middle. And yes, I do use the pass, a hell of alot acctually
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Postby Guest » 10/22/03 06:17 AM

I think people only ask this question when they can't do the pass. When they can, the answer becomes obvious: it's a great, direct, invisible way of controlling card.

You don't NEED a pass to entertain but if you are dedicated to good card magic it's something you're going to want to know. If you find the classic too hard then learn a Hermann style pass like the invisible turnover. They are much easier to do undetected.

Someone said that the pass is too much work but that isn't true. When you can do it, it is the easiest control possible. It's no harder to learn than a decent side-slip (and less angley), which is one of the only other really direct, invisible controls.

The pass really adds magicality to tricks. I use it for my opening trick: Fingered Number 3 - the card is put back in the pack, it isn't shuffled. I claim to be able to bring the card to the top.I turn it over, but it's not their card. That is placed on their palm. A few other bits of shennanigans and lo! the card on their hand IS their card. Think of the alternative - the card is placed in the pack and it IS shuffled and I claim I can bring it to the top. Anyone can see that is a possibility if I can control a shuffle. This potentially puts an unwelcome focus on the DL.

I say, forget arguing about why the pass isn't needed and just learn it!
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Postby Guest » 11/08/03 06:51 AM

hitting a mosquito with a sledge hammer? I think not. I want you to remember that because of the fact your moving all the cards, this is a great control for more than one card. Like the 4 aces or more than one selected card. :cool:
so yeah
tommer
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Postby Guest » 11/08/03 12:05 PM

Some people have no lives to be even discussing this.
What the hell difference does it make as long as you get the card to the top of the pack without anyone knowing?
Who gives a stuff?

No move is perfect anyway. They all have their weaknesses. I have never seen anyone do the pass perfectly. You do need misdirection. Even some of the fancy passes invented after 1954 that are allegedly invisible have problems. They may be invisible but the operator gives it away very often because of strange body language, blinking and looking tense.

This is because people who indulge in difficult moves are often the ones who do not have performing experience. They are more interested in manipulating the cards rather than manipulating the people.

I know there are exceptions to this rule. There are no doubt some hot shots that can do the difficult moves and entertain at the same time. I dare say a few of them can even do the pass indetectably with people's eyes glued to their hands. Very often however a layman has the reaction that although he does not know what has happened he knows that SOMETHING has happened.

That is why I think in most cases after doing the pass as a control the deck should be shuffled. I know this is against the normal theory but I am [censored] and by virtue of this cannot be wrong.

If you are a natural handler who does not excite suspicion by flourishy handling then perhaps you are exempt from the shuffling. However in most cases, the pass is done so badly that you may well be better off shuffling since the laymen will be suspicious if you don't. Shuffling convinces the spectator that the card is LOST.

Other controls have their disadvantages too. the Side Steal does look a bit funny and not very open. It is a good thing for showmanship purposes to have a card drawn from the deck and shown to everybody. And it is even less invisible than the pass and definitely needs misdirection.

Having said that the side steal is a useful sleight if it is done as a change of pace and sparingly. The best version is the one by Cy Endfield described by Lewis Ganson.

The Hindu shuffle looks unnatural unless you come from Asia where this is the normal way of shuffling. Incidentally, Chan Canasta only used the Hindu Shuffle although not for controlling a card.

There are many good controls. The pass is actually one of the best but you do have to use misdirection and you musn't blink incessantly or develop nervous tics and riffle the cards incessantly. It also helps if you do not have beads of sweat pouring down your forehead.

There are a couple of very good controls in the Paul Le Paul book. In fact there are dozens and dozens of good controls to be found in the books.I like the one where you make a fan and when the card is replaced it is hard to put in properly so when you close the deck you automatically have an injog.

Still, use what suits you and what you like best.There really is no rule so this is a daft discussion.

I know an excellent Chinese magician who swears by a thick card. I don't like it but he is the busiest magician in Toronto so who am I to argue?
Use what works for YOU.

I actually use the injog control as described in the Royal Road to Card Magic. I occasionally use the pass as a control but more often for other purposes.

The best advice is actually to have a variety of controls. Say 4 or 5. Designate a certain trick to a certain control. Do not vary this once you have decided.

Your work will have much greater deceptiveness if you do this. If you use the same control repeatedly it is not actually the best policy.

I don't practice what I preach here but I am an unmitigated genius. Still, I do believe the philosophy is correct and I am here to do the preaching rather than the practicing.
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Postby Jonathan Townsend » 11/08/03 12:51 PM

Originally posted by Gavriel:
Why is the pass seemingly the best way to control a card?!! Why can't the magi do a hindu shuffle or some other control to get the result he wants? Whats all the fuss about the pass? :confused:
That is THREE questions.

1) Nothing in and of itself is the BEST for all purposes. The pass serves as a very fast, direct and invisible means of getting the job done without any apparent motion. Card added to bottom half of deck.. deck squared... all done.

2) Sure the magician could and in some circumstances should shuffle the cards. Under such ([additional?]) procedure the selected card can be controlled. My feeling is that ANY extra handling of the cards makes my card tricks look busy. That is my feeling.

3) The fuss is more about venting frustration than legitimate concerns. The move needs to be invisible to the eye and untelegraphed in the mind of the audience. This takes quite a bit of practice. So much easier to point fingers and discuss sour grapes. BTW, I got the feeling I would not get the classic pass to work to my standards, so instead of joining the sour grapes bunch I worked out my own handling of the reverse pass. By design it is not quite good enough to do what some folks cand do with the classic pass, though it serves my needs.
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Postby Guest » 11/08/03 01:09 PM

Actually, if you are going to use the pass it would be better and more artistic to spread the cards for the replacement then get a break before doing the dirty work.

If you just baldly get the spectator to add it to the bottom half of the deck without giving them any choice where to put it then the move is not as effective.

Of course if you have a break anyway it could be argued that you may as well cut or double cut the deck after a pause. Or just go into a riffle shuffle.

If you can do the pass, great. If you can't then do things the easy way. In fact there are times when doing things the difficult way is bad magic.
I don't mean necessarily in this case but in general.

I try to cut down the moves I use. I can do virtually all of the important ones(if they are from before 1954)but I discovered long ago that the less you do the better. You can have too much of a good thing and it looks highly suspicious.

When it comes down to it you really only need to know about 5 moves or so in card magic. Anything extra is just a bonus and novel diversion.
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Postby Jonathan Townsend » 11/08/03 05:58 PM

Originally posted by Psychic:
Actually, if you are going to use the pass it would be better and more artistic to spread the cards for the replacement then get a break before doing the dirty work.
Mark, I agree with that. Seems you are both psychic and right on that.
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Postby Guest » 11/08/03 06:10 PM

While we are on the subject of controls here is an amusing one.
I very rarely use it but it does amuse me nevertheless.
Easy too.

Reverse the bottom card of the deck. Have a card selected. Overhand shuffle asking the spectator to replace his card wherever he wishes.
When he does place the right hand half on top of the chosen card. You now have the reversed card right above the selected one. A kind of key card.

Now when you are ready to get the card to the top shuffle slowly. When you get to the reversed card
"accidentally" drop it to the floor or table. Replace the portion with the selected card on top of the deck as you pick up the card. Bury this card face down in the deck.

The chosen card is now on top.
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Postby Bill Duncan » 11/09/03 12:51 AM

While I value the pass as a technique, I do try to find the appropriate control for the effect at hand. For example, in Truimph there is no good reason to use a pass to control the selection. The cards will be shuffled to create the effect, so doing "nothing" to control the card is a useless exercise in technique. At the very least it's an opportunity to avoid using your "favorite method". I think we can all agree that one should vary one's methods?

We might use an overhand shuffle or hindu shuffle control and then perform a couple of different control shuffles (before the fu/fd shuffle) as illustrations of how you "expected" the troublemaker to shuffle the cards. Then do fu/fd to futher illustrate what happened.

In a trick where things seem to go wrong for the magician, the "face up key card" control that Mark alludes to would be perfect as it would foreshadow the theme of the effect.

just my $0.02
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Postby Guest » 11/09/03 12:23 PM

Of course the face up key card control can only be used once in a performance set for obvious reasons.

Of course that is a good thing. It is very tempting to keep using the same control too much.

I do not have strong feelings about doing "nothing" one way or the other. You have to do what suits you. The reason that I am a shuffling advocate after the pass is insurance. I think that people often get suspicious that you know where the card is(you are a magician, after all) and the shuffle helps to dispel that suspicion. A matter of psychology rather than technique.

I should mention though that when I say shuffle I am referring to the overhand shuffle. The riffle shuffle tends to emphasise dexterity to an extent so I don't think it is the right shuffle to use after a control, especially the pass.

I certainly agree with Bill that the control should be appropriate to the trick. That is why a control should be selected very carefully for a particular trick and you stick to it once the decision is made.

This is an intelligent use of technique. I do believe that a good grounding in technical ability is desirable if it is used in the correct way. The trouble is that a lot of people do all sorts of unnecessary moves in a performance just because they have practiced the moves and don't want to waste the knowledge.

As far as I am concerned less is more where technique is concerned. Of course you should know more in order to do less.

Figure that one out.
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Postby Guest » 11/19/03 07:44 AM

I've actually used the Hermann pass from the Amateur Magician's Handbook. I've tried the classic pass many times (never in actual performand) and I just don't get it!

Either the top half skews when I lift my left fingers or it catches my right fingers as it comes up... in any event, it just looks to me like I'm cutting the deck! (I mean I know I [am] cutting the deck... but that's what it actually looks like!)
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Postby Chris Aguilar » 11/19/03 08:28 AM

I'll be the first to admit that my classic pass is utterly lousy. I don't obsess over it as I feel I have plenty of usable and deceptive "non-classic" passes and controls to choose from. I've had (for example) good luck with David Regal's "Two O'Clock Jiggle " pass(I think that's what he calls it). It'a a jiggle variation with the bottom half of the deck masqueradeing as the top half as the move is done. It's similar to a pass found in Lorayne's Card Classics of Ken Krenzel (KE pass?). It's very casual and much easier to learn than the classic pass. I also favor Cervon's "Free Turn Pass" as a nice "action pass".


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Postby Guest » 11/19/03 11:41 AM

I use several versions of the pass in my work, depends on the situation, what I want to accomplish and angles. I use a classic pass, a turn-over pass, a spread-pass, riffle pass and a strange little move I call a spreadless spread pass, all are useful when I need them and in fact in my lectures I do a small explaination/demo of these so as to demystify about the myths of how difficult the pass is. When my lecture is over, they are usually performing a version of the pass with relative ease (and only require a small modicum of practice).

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Postby Guest » 11/19/03 12:03 PM

Paul is correct about the pass not being difficult. I learned it in about 10 minutes. Mind you, it took me two years to learn to do the double lift. I always was a bit different.
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Postby magicbar » 11/28/03 09:27 AM

Shall we double the length of this thread if we continue to discuss the worth of the Bluff Pass?
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Postby Richard Kaufman » 11/28/03 02:22 PM

The Bluff Pass is a killer move, and it fools everyone, laymen and magicians alike. The great thing about using The Bluff Pass for magicians is that the control is done before they know and you are way way ahead. For laymen, of course, it's just another great tool. Thoughtful Applications of The Bluff Pass really make it valuable.
There is a wonderful version of The Bluff Pass done off the face of the deck in Rock's book Card Finesse.
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