Working Professional's Cups

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Postby Guest » 12/03/02 09:12 AM

I have a set of these cups in brass. These were originally endorsed by Michael Ammar (Pre Johnson era), and were sold at one time by Jim Sisti.

Does any one have an idea why these are no longer available? I heard rumors of a "Paul Fox conflict," but have no idea.

If I remember correctly, it was a metal worker named Kevin Care who turned these marvelous cups out. It would be really nice to get some copper ones, for the sake of gratuitousness.
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Postby Mike Powers » 12/04/02 05:36 AM

Hi Ron,

Check http://www.jamesriser.com/Magic/JamesRiserMagic.html
Mr. Riser makes some very nice stuff. The cups are excellent and expensive.

Mike
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Postby Jim Riser » 12/04/02 09:37 AM

Ron;
It is my understanding that these great cups are no longer being made. The last I heard was that Hank Lee in the Boston area had the few remaining sets for sale.

Whatever the case, you may rest assured that a "Paul Fox conflict" with Busby is not the reason the cups would have been discontinued. Jim Sisti settled the Busby situation - ebay is the only problem now. No one is afraid of Busby.

Until we hear from Jim Sisti, we can only speculate on why the cups might have been discontinued. As a maker of such goodies, I can assure you that any item currently on the market will not necessarily be available next week. We get tired of making things and discontinue them. Sometimes there are manufacturing concerns which reach the point where a product is not worth making. There are supply problems. A spinning chuck gets dropped and costs too much to remake. We get interested in other projects and move on. Over the years I have seen many magic effects disappear from the market with no warning - it happens. Based upon experience, my policy has become if I see something that I want, I try to get it before it might be discontinued. The alternative is that the item becomes a "collectable" and the price goes even higher.

Let's hope for a response from Jim Sisti.
Jim
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Postby Jim Sisti » 12/04/02 01:37 PM

Jim / all:

The Working Professional's Cups are no longer being made at this juncture. The main reason is that the metal worker just became too busy with other things (his specialty is custom parts for high-performance cars) to bother with them. Busby had nothing to do with their discontinuation.

Regarding Mr. Busby, though he tried to stop the manufacturing and marketing of my cups, he failed quite miserably. On the advice of Bob Farmer and others, I hired a highly-placed law firm that specializes in intellectual property to handle the situation and after they replied, Mr. Busby went away with his tail between his legs (the usual reaction of a bully when someone stands up to him.)

Regarding the eBay situation, Mr. Busby has been abusing the eBay Verified Owners Program for some time now, asserting rights that he doesn't actually own to shut down the auctions of people who have every right to be selling their items. I've been making efforts to change that situation, also.

Just happy to help... :)
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Postby Guest » 12/04/02 02:32 PM

Jim(s)/all

Thank you for your response. I am hoping that someday, these cups will be available again. I love mine, and every magician that gets to see them loves them.

Please be sure to make a lot of noise when it does eventuate, as I will be listening. I like a lot of the new cups out there (including Jim Riser's and the Johnson ones), but these are just dear to my heart for some reason.

Mr. Riser, I must say those copper cups are intiguing to me. . .I may buy a set one of these days.

Thank you all.
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Postby Guest » 12/04/02 02:54 PM

I hired a highly-placed law firm that specializes in intellectual property to handle the situation . . .
Bravo, Mr. Sisti.

It takes true grit to stand up to a bully, even when you know you are right.

Magic needs more citizens like you.

0pus
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Postby Kendrix » 12/04/02 07:35 PM

Jim Sisti: I would love to coordinate with you an organized effort to stop Jeff Busby's actions on Ebay. I know there are many other magicians who would be willing to help. Maybe we should all on one day place Paul Fox items on ebay collectively.
I am in frequent communication with Paul Fox's daughter who supports this in every way.
Add: I saw the comment about the Riser cups being expensive. I have tried my hand at metal work in the past and they actually are a steal. I don't want him to know he should be charging more.
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Postby KirkG » 12/10/02 05:41 PM

I too am willing to take up the fight to sell paul fox cups on ebay! I think the magicians of the world should unite on this and kick bootie! Genii ought to be able to get the word out.
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Postby Jonathan Townsend » 12/10/02 05:52 PM

Originally posted by Kirk the Magician:
I too am willing to take up the fight to sell paul fox cups on ebay!
What exactly is the issue whith selling ones property on ebaY? Please explain.
Mundus vult decipi
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Postby Kendrix » 12/10/02 07:49 PM

Jonathon: Jeff Busby claims to have the total exclusive rights to the sale of all "Paul Fox" items. When someone lists thses items on Ebay, he has them removed.
Imagine if Chevrolet, Ford, etc said that you could never sell your used car, because they have exclusive rights.
There are a lot of PF items that were bought long before this Busby claim was ever made. PF's daughter doesn't feel Busby has any rights to his products either.
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Postby Dustin Stinett » 12/10/02 07:55 PM

Jonathan,

This pretty much covers it:

Originally posted by Jim Sisti:
Regarding the eBay situation, Mr. Busby has been abusing the eBay Verified Owners Program for some time now, asserting rights that he doesn't actually own to shut down the auctions of people who have every right to be selling their items. I've been making efforts to change that situation, also.
Mr. Busby seems to think he owns the Paul Fox name (and he has eBay convinced he is correct - or at least they aren't taking any chances). So, any auction with the Fox moniker gets shutdown as soon as Busby tells eBay about the "offending" party attempting to sell their personal property on eBay. Busby apparently believes this perfectly legal activity violates his "rights."

Imagine if Ford claimed "intellectual property rights" every time someone takes a personal ad out to sell their old Taurus.

I can only envision a curmudgeonly and bitter man wringing his little hands together while doing specific searches night after night on eBay. Sounds like a pitiful existence to me.

Dustin
(Of course, the above was aimed at Mr. Ford, not you Mr. Busby.)
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Postby Jonathan Townsend » 12/10/02 08:45 PM

Originally posted by Dustin Stinett:
. Busby apparently believes this perfectly legal activity violates his "rights."
First, what is mr Busby's position on refunding the purchase price of the cups at current retail value? If a seller could get this, would that satisfy most if not all parties?

Second... not a single lawyer here as 'returned the favor' by enjoining my busby from selling anything on ebaY becuse he does not own the rights to the paper or plastic wrap, or cardboard box he needs to ship his "property"?

Sad both ways. Surely Mr. Busby could offer some options on this issue. Or folks could/will? just offer them for bid here on this forum.

Suggestions?
Mundus vult decipi
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Postby Pete Biro » 12/11/02 11:51 AM

Somewhere in my files I have a letter from Danny Dew's lawyer stating that Busby never fully paid the agreed price for the Paul Fox jigs, rights, whatever. The lawyer offered to go after Busby "pro bono" but Danny, ill of health didn't fell up to going after it.

If the name Busby is brought up to Danny's widow, Melba, she nearly goes into hysterics.

Too bad. Jeff started out fine, he and I were buddies in our teen years together, and he was on his way to become a dentist. He is a very bright guy. But he has screwed so many things up it is a wonder that he is still in business. :confused:
Stay tooned.
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Postby Pete Biro » 12/11/02 11:53 AM

I have a set of the Sisti cups in stainless steel, and am willing to sell. (I need to find out the original retail price. Anybody here know?)
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